Can men admit they're powerless over abuse from addict woman?
Still Standing
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here @ SR.
Posts: 3,296
One thing for me is i gotta start doing the right thing for me, NOT "keep the focus on myself",,,,TAKE CARE OF ME, my needs, NOT her needs, do whats right for me. (some of the bozos i was talking to on the phone had me convinced the way to spirituality was "doing the right thing for the addict/alcoholic person),....NOOOOOOOOOOOO...that is not the way TO FREEDOM.. EMOTIONAL FREEDOM!!
And I agree with cynical one.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I am responsible for my behaviour, for what I allow in my life as acceptable and not acceptable, and for how I react to adversity and chaos.
In the dark days of my codependency I made many bad choices, all based on fear. Fear that my son would die if left on his own, fear that he would end up in prison if I charged him for stealing from me, fear of what my life would be like without him.
Recovery gained through meetings, reading and coming here helped me find my balance and heal. Recovery taught me how to make better choices.
None of this was based on whether I was a woman or a man or whether my son was a son or a daughter.
In the end we are each responsible for our own lives and choices...and not responsible for the choices, however bad, of anyone else. Therein lies the lesson.
Hugs
In the dark days of my codependency I made many bad choices, all based on fear. Fear that my son would die if left on his own, fear that he would end up in prison if I charged him for stealing from me, fear of what my life would be like without him.
Recovery gained through meetings, reading and coming here helped me find my balance and heal. Recovery taught me how to make better choices.
None of this was based on whether I was a woman or a man or whether my son was a son or a daughter.
In the end we are each responsible for our own lives and choices...and not responsible for the choices, however bad, of anyone else. Therein lies the lesson.
Hugs
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 55
Cynical, great articles you got thank you. Of course alot use the word "he" as the abuser, not "she" but thats ok, im used to it by now (im a male).
Nina, for me the phrase "keep the focus on yourself", it's too vague and cliche, in the meetings. In my case to keep the focus on myself, there's a perpetrator that needs to be dealt with, the addict, who has a style of lies, deceit, is cunning, manipulative and passive that iv'e never come across.
in my experience A bunch of un-licensed, "men" in alanon, trying to be therapists with me and pick my brain apart, giving unsolicited advice, feedback during a support call, efforts to control me instead of their miserable wife, is totally inappropriate, taking my inventory, as bad as the addict tries to and its not alanon.
Even though its a year, im a newcomer as long as im in turmoil. Inventory time is way later, step for. Empowerment is support, validation, "hey you're in a f'd up situation, you're a good guy,this girls wacked out, manipulating you, controlling you,," or even just be a good listener. So many women in alanon and naranon, share how they got all this support from the meetings of people who just "listen". I just think its not a macho thing in our society, for men to listen, and not to feedback. Some very older men who maybe got 30 yrs in AA or NA, are better listeners, have better spirituality.
As much as the emphasis of Keep the focus on yourself, (WHERE I LIVE, this is all the boneheads say, other cities different for sure)....if you gotta sit explaining your stuff to these boneheads on the phone, you get all twisted up and you can't keep the focus on yourself.
These mom's who have to kick the kids out, cause of narcotics use, HAD TO HAVE A TON OF SUPPORT to do it. THATS the kind of conviction I need for what Im stuck in.
So for now Im finding switching to a male therapist who specializes in my issues,., multi sessions is way way better than going to meetings everyday, where the local guy support is horrible and, the women stick with the women. I've been to meetings out of state, in my AGF's city, where I was the only guy, but the women were very supportive and the guys there had much deeper views of program than my local bonehead, atheists, who have no higher power whatsoever.
no matter how you slice, it a alanon meetings people are talking about their alcoholics and naranon they're talking about their addicts,,,,,,EVERYBODYS HAPPY when their person is in recovery, and they're pretty miserable when they're not. Thats my humble opinion 1 yr and 3 months into this. ACA forces you to look at yourself, and stand up for yourself. Naranon forces to you recognize you're being bamboozled by a cunning manipulative and controlling person who paints a fairy tale to you about their life, and if you're in a romantic relationship, a fairy tale, that "you're the one for them".
I feel sorry for a newcomer in any program who didnt und the meaning of the word manipulation or quickly hear that they were being manipulated. I've been telling people for months this sounds like manipulation,but nobody validated it, not my ex therapist, not my AA Bff guy friend, and certinain NOBODY in alanon. Until the past few weeks i've been surrounded by boneheads, and convert sympathists for the addict/alcoholic. Ya can't be "kind courteous and gentle to a gf", who's a lying ____ of _____". You don't have to aquiese them or be afraid of them, by allowing their lies to you to continue. BUT UNLESS YOU GET VALIDATION,,,that "this is what they do", you get confused and bewildered.
NAranon yes, new therapist YES, aca yes!
Went to 2 great naranon meetings today.
tnx for listening, tnx for sharing.
Nina, for me the phrase "keep the focus on yourself", it's too vague and cliche, in the meetings. In my case to keep the focus on myself, there's a perpetrator that needs to be dealt with, the addict, who has a style of lies, deceit, is cunning, manipulative and passive that iv'e never come across.
in my experience A bunch of un-licensed, "men" in alanon, trying to be therapists with me and pick my brain apart, giving unsolicited advice, feedback during a support call, efforts to control me instead of their miserable wife, is totally inappropriate, taking my inventory, as bad as the addict tries to and its not alanon.
Even though its a year, im a newcomer as long as im in turmoil. Inventory time is way later, step for. Empowerment is support, validation, "hey you're in a f'd up situation, you're a good guy,this girls wacked out, manipulating you, controlling you,," or even just be a good listener. So many women in alanon and naranon, share how they got all this support from the meetings of people who just "listen". I just think its not a macho thing in our society, for men to listen, and not to feedback. Some very older men who maybe got 30 yrs in AA or NA, are better listeners, have better spirituality.
As much as the emphasis of Keep the focus on yourself, (WHERE I LIVE, this is all the boneheads say, other cities different for sure)....if you gotta sit explaining your stuff to these boneheads on the phone, you get all twisted up and you can't keep the focus on yourself.
These mom's who have to kick the kids out, cause of narcotics use, HAD TO HAVE A TON OF SUPPORT to do it. THATS the kind of conviction I need for what Im stuck in.
So for now Im finding switching to a male therapist who specializes in my issues,., multi sessions is way way better than going to meetings everyday, where the local guy support is horrible and, the women stick with the women. I've been to meetings out of state, in my AGF's city, where I was the only guy, but the women were very supportive and the guys there had much deeper views of program than my local bonehead, atheists, who have no higher power whatsoever.
no matter how you slice, it a alanon meetings people are talking about their alcoholics and naranon they're talking about their addicts,,,,,,EVERYBODYS HAPPY when their person is in recovery, and they're pretty miserable when they're not. Thats my humble opinion 1 yr and 3 months into this. ACA forces you to look at yourself, and stand up for yourself. Naranon forces to you recognize you're being bamboozled by a cunning manipulative and controlling person who paints a fairy tale to you about their life, and if you're in a romantic relationship, a fairy tale, that "you're the one for them".
I feel sorry for a newcomer in any program who didnt und the meaning of the word manipulation or quickly hear that they were being manipulated. I've been telling people for months this sounds like manipulation,but nobody validated it, not my ex therapist, not my AA Bff guy friend, and certinain NOBODY in alanon. Until the past few weeks i've been surrounded by boneheads, and convert sympathists for the addict/alcoholic. Ya can't be "kind courteous and gentle to a gf", who's a lying ____ of _____". You don't have to aquiese them or be afraid of them, by allowing their lies to you to continue. BUT UNLESS YOU GET VALIDATION,,,that "this is what they do", you get confused and bewildered.
NAranon yes, new therapist YES, aca yes!
Went to 2 great naranon meetings today.
tnx for listening, tnx for sharing.
Still Standing
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here @ SR.
Posts: 3,296
Wantfreedom,
I'm so glad to hear that Naranon works for you. Different things work for different people and we need to help ourselves by finding what works. I want to say that I want to Validate that you are Obviously being Manipulated & Lied to in many ways often. All meetings that I have been in & those here, do know & say that addicts are very manipulative & selfish & they steal & cheat on spouses & they Lie (only when their lips are moving), so I'm thinking that I might be misunderstanding what exactly you are trying to say here. I really am trying to understand.
My own son is the addict in my life. And my family & I have been practically destroyed by his addiction & the fall-out from it. After many years of torment, I've started trying to put the pieces of my life back together in spite of the fact that my son is still using most of the time, now with his two precious baby boys lives at stake. I am Never completely Happy but, I have a much saner & healthier life than before, whether he is using or not because I focus more on my own life & health & attitudes, which take time because it is a lifelong process. I am very relieved when my Son is doing better, but I make the most of that day never knowing what the next day may bring. I'm learning to focus on one day at a time & the positive of that day. I am sad when I do know that my Son is back to using, but I am learning more & more how to go on with MY life, in spite of his bad choices in his life. So that's what I mean when I say to try to "keep the focus on yourself". Otherwise we are addicted to & consumed with our loved ones that are addicted to drugs and that leads to our own insanity & distruction. We are trying to survive too, so that addiction doesn't have a whole lot more casualties than is necessary.
I also hope that you can try to remember that EVERYONE in a support group of any kind are also struggling with traumas just as you are. We are all trying to heal & survive this. So please try to be patient with all of us everywhere, because we too are hurt, scared & angry, just like you. I really hope that you'll keep coming back here to share & to read our shares. We all need each other.
I'm so glad to hear that Naranon works for you. Different things work for different people and we need to help ourselves by finding what works. I want to say that I want to Validate that you are Obviously being Manipulated & Lied to in many ways often. All meetings that I have been in & those here, do know & say that addicts are very manipulative & selfish & they steal & cheat on spouses & they Lie (only when their lips are moving), so I'm thinking that I might be misunderstanding what exactly you are trying to say here. I really am trying to understand.
My own son is the addict in my life. And my family & I have been practically destroyed by his addiction & the fall-out from it. After many years of torment, I've started trying to put the pieces of my life back together in spite of the fact that my son is still using most of the time, now with his two precious baby boys lives at stake. I am Never completely Happy but, I have a much saner & healthier life than before, whether he is using or not because I focus more on my own life & health & attitudes, which take time because it is a lifelong process. I am very relieved when my Son is doing better, but I make the most of that day never knowing what the next day may bring. I'm learning to focus on one day at a time & the positive of that day. I am sad when I do know that my Son is back to using, but I am learning more & more how to go on with MY life, in spite of his bad choices in his life. So that's what I mean when I say to try to "keep the focus on yourself". Otherwise we are addicted to & consumed with our loved ones that are addicted to drugs and that leads to our own insanity & distruction. We are trying to survive too, so that addiction doesn't have a whole lot more casualties than is necessary.
I also hope that you can try to remember that EVERYONE in a support group of any kind are also struggling with traumas just as you are. We are all trying to heal & survive this. So please try to be patient with all of us everywhere, because we too are hurt, scared & angry, just like you. I really hope that you'll keep coming back here to share & to read our shares. We all need each other.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 55
Thanks Nina,
Im finding this site, really supportive and wonderful. Thanks for the validation.
My drama began Sept 2012 when the lying and cheating first came front and center, and I read about "when theyre lips a moving, they're lying", on the web.
Thats a very hard concept to grasp, when my AGF is "straight/not under influence" most ot the time. In her mid-50's, the 24/7 heroin/coke use that she was doing until a few years ago, (before got together) had ceased and now best I can say is she's periodic narc user and daily alcohol which is a drug user, meaning 1 glass of wine with dinner, BUT THE ATTITUDE is, THERE ALL day long, she can lie just as cunningly when she's straight and it happens all the time, constantly, its compulsive. But as you maybe know, they mix in "gaslighting", diffusion and phrases like "oh its not that its this", or "oh you're imagining things"....which makes it harder to prove anything, unless you maybe got picture or video, but even then they deny it.
So straight absolutely all day every day, cunning and manipulative. The only thing the glass of wine does or the 3 times (that i know of) she used narcotics in 1.5.yrs, is it makes her combatant, or seductive. For some time now its been mostly combatant.
AS i wrote they even would deny pictures or audio, I taped her once audio in my phone screaming and yelling at me, her answer was "oh thats nothing"......I took pictures of her destruction in my hotel room "oh that? thats nothing"......
Ruthless.....I was never exposed to this. Took a long time for me to get it, but im getting it finally..
thanks for sharing thanks for listening.
.
Im finding this site, really supportive and wonderful. Thanks for the validation.
My drama began Sept 2012 when the lying and cheating first came front and center, and I read about "when theyre lips a moving, they're lying", on the web.
Thats a very hard concept to grasp, when my AGF is "straight/not under influence" most ot the time. In her mid-50's, the 24/7 heroin/coke use that she was doing until a few years ago, (before got together) had ceased and now best I can say is she's periodic narc user and daily alcohol which is a drug user, meaning 1 glass of wine with dinner, BUT THE ATTITUDE is, THERE ALL day long, she can lie just as cunningly when she's straight and it happens all the time, constantly, its compulsive. But as you maybe know, they mix in "gaslighting", diffusion and phrases like "oh its not that its this", or "oh you're imagining things"....which makes it harder to prove anything, unless you maybe got picture or video, but even then they deny it.
So straight absolutely all day every day, cunning and manipulative. The only thing the glass of wine does or the 3 times (that i know of) she used narcotics in 1.5.yrs, is it makes her combatant, or seductive. For some time now its been mostly combatant.
AS i wrote they even would deny pictures or audio, I taped her once audio in my phone screaming and yelling at me, her answer was "oh thats nothing"......I took pictures of her destruction in my hotel room "oh that? thats nothing"......
Ruthless.....I was never exposed to this. Took a long time for me to get it, but im getting it finally..
thanks for sharing thanks for listening.
.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
