Who's gonna crack first...

Old 12-16-2013, 06:50 PM
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Your son sounds like a very perceptive loving boy. I hope you can get some sleep and figure things out. It sounds like the time has come to stop doing anything for these girls who are so unappreciative to you and downright mean.. Wishing you peace and wisdom TF. Big huge virtual hugs from one mother to another. You deserve to be treated so much better!
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:30 PM
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I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I know how bad it hurts to have an addicted child. But honestly you are doing them no favors by letting them treat you this way. They will not change until you force them to. When you change how you react to their bratty attitudes their bratty attitudes will change. I believe that we teach people how to treat us. You have to stand up for yourself. If you can't do it for yourself do it for your son!
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:33 PM
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To those that are in favor of Twofish stopping the fund for her methadone, I say, she shouldn't. The reason being is that a person could die from withdrawal. Not just get sick like heroin but actually die. On the other hand, the sleep until late afternoon seems suspicious. What on Earth are they up to all night? The younger one could be driving to Chicago all night and back to score dope. Although my son did not turn out so good I am glad I never fully got with the "tough love" program. I figured society screwed him enough already why should I do any more harm?
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:06 PM
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Hey, It's really quiet in the house now, really quiet. All three children are upstairs, my son, who usually goes to bed early, came to me and said good night and thanks for the "cool" t-shirts" and was gonna wear one of them Tuesday. Nothing else. I'm glad this wasn't gonna be rehashed over again. At least not tonight anyway. I'm starting to wonder about a relapse? I heard the girls talking about the diner they were taking the boy to tomorrow night and that they were gonna order him a drink and that when dad comes home, he's taking them all out and letting them have beer. I guess that's allowed in underage kids in WI if your parent is with you. Very concerned about this and also how irresponsible of my husband, the functioning alcoholic, the one who couldn't live with addicts, the one who left his family. I think he shouldn't do this. It's very dangerous. We don't have a good communication between us, he plays the blame game, always has. Not that I'm all innocent and sweet. I am dramatic, read into things, and worry my a$$ off about small issues. So I guess we are a dysfunctional family, with a weary mom who is trying drastically and panickly to hold this, my family, together.
Yes, my girls are mean to me, each other for reasons that need not be, then, are sweet, kink and loving. Kinda sounds like Bi-Polar? They have been tested, the younger one highly positive,BUT, the Drs. want all the drugs out of their body before they start labeling mental illnesses. They told me it could take up to a year before this diagnosis can be made. Great, addicts and mentally ill children, can anything else happen to my family? One thing that won't ever go away is my love and need to protect my kids.
If anything, I hope my sad story of living the life of a mom of Heroin/Opiates/Benzos addicts is like. Learn from my mistakes, be warned of unpredictable behavior and mostly where have our children gone, will they come back? Are their minds altered forever? I pray I am wrong. They will be back, enjoy and embrace the sobriety they were born into. I cling to that four letter word...HOPE. I will always have hope, with my eyes wide open. Good night SR, I appreciate an ear you offer and all the support. Love my SR. TF
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:22 PM
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I would worry about the beer, also. Is there some sibling rivalry going on? Do they want to undermine his sobriety so that he is no longer the innocent one?
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:30 PM
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No matter their diagnosis, the most important thing for you is boundaries. You were right to not play into her drama at the mall. My bipolar/addict mom did that to me once at the mall--she actually got out of the car in the middle of a busy street, and walked to the mall. At the time, I was still very involved in her drama. I called my grandfather to help me find her in the mall. What a mess. I was so upset--crying, etc., and she was enjoying her manipulations. The rollercoaster ride stops once you get off of it. It took me a long time to detach from my mom. I can't always do it, but now I pretty much won't allow her to manipulate me to be involved in her drama. Although, I don't know if I could manage it if we were living under the same roof.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:32 PM
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Hi Upset, Good point, never thought of how society(glass house neighbors) have damaged them, how judgement hurts. I was never a big supporter of tough love, I prefer to call it "gentle love", plus i dont understand it, I don't want to hurt them, I'm just not experienced enough to do it. They have no income so to buy illegal drugs is questionable, unless she's stealing from me again, plus the younger AD is drug tested every week. Always negative. The older one is not tested yet as she is on a visitor Methadone guest dosing until,she goes back to school, then she may have some explaining to do?..? Anyway, the day is over, the pain has lightened, the memories are strong. Gonna try to take a shower, read some other SR threads and posts, relax and breathe, breathe and breathe some more. Talk to you in the morning friends. TF
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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Wow Twofish...you've had quite a day. I'm afraid to say but your girls are manipulating you by fear. Fear that if you don't do exactly as they demand they may relapse. If they relapse it will be because of choices they have made not because of anything you have done. You have received some really good advice here tonight. Can you stop being so available to them? Have you been able to establish any boundaries with them? I think one of the most concerning things is your son is watching his sister's manipulate the hell out of you. What happens when he begins to display this type of behavior? He may begin to believe it's the way you get attention. Big hug to you. Practice the word "no"...your girls are resourceful...You don't have to fix everything for them.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:53 PM
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Twofish, it's not so much tough love as it is setting boundaries and refusing to play their games. You admit that they manipulate you. Well, you have to refuse to be manipulated. You must be consistent with this. If you back down just once, that gives them the idea that they can make you back down again.

Setting boundaries is healthy for you. It doesn't mean you don't love your daughters; it just means that you refuse to allow them to make you do things you don't feel is in their best interests. Something inside you caused you to make the decisions you did today. Something told you that you didn't want to play this game anymore. That's a good thing!
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:02 AM
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TF ...they're being mean plain and simple. It's addictive behavior. They see you as weak, as a puppet that they can manipulate. To quote my favorite therapist (dr phil lol), "people treat you the way you allow yourself to be treated". This one always stuck with me.
When they act that way about the sweater, drink etc, it's not about the "thing" ..it's about them pulling the puppet strings. When my daughter would throw her tantrums I would tell her I was going to call mobile mental health if she didn't stop. She would slam, stomp out the door, wander the neighborhood talking/cursing to herself (loudly), then come back and sit in her room. She can't regulate herself, never could.
I think you should take your son out to lunch or somewhere he would like to go for the afternoon. Just you and him. You'd be surprised how much he will open up to you. Be his ally. Maybe he will just share his thoughts about everything. Show him what a strong woman looks like so he will choose one himself (he's at that age ugh).
You're getting there TF. Stay strong my friend!
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:27 AM
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Tf, I hope you are feeling better and got some rest. I dont post much here, but I read. I felt sad for you putting up the Xmas tree by yourself while your able daughters showed no interest.
in the interest of them growing into self sufficient, productive adults, you have t o ask yourself where are they going to be in 2-3 years if mama keeps giving them everything?
Mama is going to be enmeshed in credit card debt and they will still be expecting you to fix their lives.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:29 AM
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Hi Twofish, I haven't been on much this past week because I have company. I have been reminded this past week that it stops when I say so. I had to set some hard boundaries just to make it through.

Your kids are running you ragged, they own their bad behaviour and you don't have to tolerate it. You know that I know how hard it is, I went through this for years with my son. But it stopped when I said "enough".

My heart and prayers go out to you, and for them too. It is miserable to live like that. Maybe try to set some boundaries for you, not them, and enforce them. Start small and grow, but start today and do something to take good care of yourself because you deserve love and respect and if they refuse to give it, then let them be disrespectful somewhere else.

Hugs from one mama's heart to anothers.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:28 AM
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Hi Ann! Yes this mamma is already in deep debt from the irresponsibility of the daughters spending and also my giving it to them. Thank goodness I'm not a "Ralph Lauren" momma who has to have designer clothes and look like a trophy. Not that I've let myself go, not at all. It's just that I feel guilty in spending,only on myself, that is. I have always been like that. Which makes it come in handy when unexpected expenses come up like Methadone payments, or food.
I have not slept but an hour last night, tossing and turning, then stayed up to read some posts, plus just thinking about last nights traumatic arguments and tantrums, I am really bothered by all that happened and don't want a repeat.
I am concerned some about the ADs future, in fact all three of them. I'm am thinking the older one will graduate in May, the younger AD is going to Minnesota to live with her dad, might have it better with him, ya right. I'm sure she will be back in a matter of weeks. Her dad already told me that he's not going to let either one of them live with him, no matter what. That's really selfish of him. He packed up and moved out two years ago for this "dream job" with the intent of staying only 3 months. We do not have a happy marriage, but that's a long story and has nothing to do with one person, just wants to be alone and drink.
Yes my life IS miserable but I do have some happiness. It's not all doom and gloom! I do see some color blooming from a frozen ground, a small flower of life peaking out, yes, it's there. No use worrying about money, it just makes me obsess over it, and obsess over and over. I would like to worry about the Family of addicts meeting to disband, THAT would make me really upset.
So my cyber friends, gotta go take my boy to school. Will write soon. Let it snow! TF
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:01 AM
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TF...I am so sorry. Stop the guilt...you are such a good mom and have done everything you can for your girls. They need to GROW THE HELL UP. Goodness. Did you notice that you said while you drove off crying she was sitting there reading? Why...she knew you would come back.

I have said this several times on this board and am sure you have heard this but here it is again for what it is worth. I say it because it has made such a huge impact on how I think of things.

You cannot take the pain and consequences away from an addict. They have to experience those things to grow and to way to get rid of addiction. If you continue to always take those things away it robs them of a chance of recovery.


They manipulate you so badly. I am SO SO glad you took the shirt back. Just like the other day...they STOLE your credit card to buy expensive shoes and now want more? Really?? They need to learn the value of work and of a dollar.

TF...I send you gentle hugs. Get off the crazy train and give your girls the chance to grow up.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:35 PM
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Hey TF, have been thinking of you today. I imagined you had very little sleep last night. Something that I thought you should concentrate on because you do care and you do worry. Yesterday you left your daughter at the mall and I know it was hard and I know you worried BUT she made it home just fine didn't she? She wasn't worried because she KNEW she would be ok. Continue sticking to your guns. If they want to be mean, give them nothing. Teach them that bad behavior and disrespect gets them nothing. Good behavior and being respectful gets them basics.
My son can be very nice or he can be cranky and miserable. When he is miserable I tune him right out and I am done with him. He is learning nasty moods and remarks get you silence and nothing at all. Kindness and respect get you simple things like food for your lunch or dinner. It is pretty sad that at 30 he has to be taught this but he has been manipulating his entire life and again, he acts like a 16 yr old. I hope your day is much better today. Think the drinking thing for your son is not only a bad idea but horrible example to set, especially with him having a drinking problem and having two daughters who are addicts. We do not drink at all in our home and my husband has one glass of wine if we go out to dinner, not around my son. Wishing you a peace filled night. Snowing here too Twofish!
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:39 PM
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O sweetie...they are going to keep this up until you put a stop to it. I am so sorry. Your son sounds like a gem! I would ship them off to dear dad and let them see how things work there..let him deal with them for a while.

Gentle Hugs my friend.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:13 PM
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If you were on a ship and it was sinking, who would you save? Your 2 older daughters who are adults and have had or have taken everything they could get and then treated you badly?

Or your 15 year old son, who is a child, still an innocent on a good path and deserving of all the good parenting you have to offer?

All the drama and chaos your older daughters love to live in and draw you into steals the time, energy, and loving mothering that you could be giving to your son. And to yourself.

Many years ago when my children were young, I read a parenting book that had a chapter about dinosaurs. That seemed irrelevant to me until the author explained. He said "treat a child's bad behavior like a dinosaur. Starve it for attention, and, like the dinosaur, it will go extinct".

Your son will blossom with your love and attention.

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Old 12-17-2013, 09:34 PM
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Twofish, I'm so cross on your behalf! The way your daughter behaved at the mall would shame a 2 year old and taking back that shirt was the act of a hero.
Of course you know what's going on, and are just building up the strength to resist it. I wish your husband would stand up for you more; I don't know if he heard the daughters disrespecting you, but if he did he should not have tolerated it.
It makes sense that while they are treating you this way you withdraw all non-essential help. I don't know if you're cooking, washing etc for them, but they don't deserve any of it. Otherwise you're just an unpaid servant.
Your son sounds like a perceptive person. Without heaping everything onto him, it might pay to tell him the plain truth when he asks what's wrong as he probably guesses anyway.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Twofish View Post
If anything, I hope my sad story of living the life of a mom of Heroin/Opiates/Benzos addicts is like. Learn from my mistakes, be warned of unpredictable behavior and mostly where have our children gone, will they come back?
You don't have to be a martyr.
And you went from being a victim to being a willing participant a while ago.

You are straight up allowing yourself to be bullied by all the adult addicts in your life.

Your son is watching it all and learning how to treat a woman like an emotional punching bag because you won't be strong and fight back.

You can't save anyone if you don't put your mask on first.


I kicked my son out to the street several times for breaking the boundaries my wife and I had set. It went against every parental instinct I had and it hurt me deeply.
I had to save myself though. My health was deteriorating and my marriage was suffering. He has 2 1/2 years sober now and god-willing he will be sober tomorrow.

My mom died last month. She was still enabling my addict brother and still trying to raise his teenage children as their legal guardian. They weren't addicts, but they were cruel to her and bullied her. They didn't do it when I was around. I tried to tell her that she needed to stand up to them all but she wouldn't.
"Oh honey, you know how I am, I love them too much"

She died unhappy and broke because she couldn't find the strength to put her mask on first and it pisses me off.
Now of course everyone misses grandma and "what will we do without her?"

Yeah, what will you do without your punching bag? You will now deal with real life, and life is gonna punch you right in the mouth like grandma should have.

Please demand the respect that you deserve while you still can.

Tomorrow isn't a guarantee.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:45 AM
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Beavsdad...your post hit me (in a good way).

The motivation to keep my boundaries are the older mothers....the enabling mothers who may not even know what enabling means. My husband mothers is a supreme example.

I vow not to be 74 years old with my adult children living off of me. (husbands mother). I vow that my love for my children isn't dependent upon my doing EVERYTHING for them and FIXING their problems. I pray that I can hold tight until my time comes.

It's the most difficult thing to do.
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