family troubles...
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family troubles...
Hello all! I'm having a hard time with my brother and would love to have your support and advice. I usually post here about my sister, who is addicted to opiates, and this post about my brother might be a little off topic for this forum because there isn't any addiction involved as far as I know, but there is codependency, family craziness, and domestic abuse involved, and I would value any experience, strength, & hope you can share in that department.
My parents were both alcholics, and my brother and sister and I are all struggling in our own way to cope with the aftermath of that. My brother usually keeps quiet about his problems, but I know that his wife is mentally ill, sometimes delusional, and has attempted suicide multiple times. I also know that their daughter, who is a young teen now, has had behavior problems in school (anger/violence issues) and been getting suspended since she was in preschool!
So last night my brother called to tell me that while he was away yesterday afternoon, his wife got angry at his daughter and tried to choke her. They both told him this when he got home. He also admitted that CPS has been involved with his daughter for a while now because a while back his wife admitted to a therapist that she had been thinking about running her car off the road while driving my niece around. He told me that CPS warned him then that he had to protect his daughter from her mother, and that he realizes that this choking incident means he has to do something. He said he would talk to my niece's counselor today and go from there, and that he would ask his wife to move out for at least a while. But he also seemed unsure, kept telling me that sometimes his wife is a good mother, that he doesn't want his wife and daughter to not be allowed to see each other. I asked him if he was going to tell his daughter's counselor the whole story, and he didn't seem sure about that either. I told him I would call him tonight to see how it went with the counselor.
So obviously this is tough. Brings back memories of childhood abuse that I suffered, and leaves me struggling to define boundaries. I usually try to take a hands off approach to my brother and sister's problems, but in this case there is an innocent kid involved! I hope my brother will tell his daughter's counselor exactly what happened and that the counselor will notify CPS, but I don't feel like I can necessarily count on my brother to be honest with me about whether that happened because he is always hiding his problems and his wife's bad behavior from me. I didn't even know CPS was already involved until last night! So I'm left struggling with whether to call CPS no matter what or whether to hold off if it sounds like my brother is really addressing the situation. I'm also wondering whether to tell my brother that I plan to call CPS if I do. (I think I am the only one he has told about this, so I think he would figure out it was me even if I called anonymously.) I just feel pretty lost and sad about the whole thing. I want to do the right thing for my niece, but I'm also afraid of making my brother angry enough that I don't get to see my niece any more.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers! -JJJ
My parents were both alcholics, and my brother and sister and I are all struggling in our own way to cope with the aftermath of that. My brother usually keeps quiet about his problems, but I know that his wife is mentally ill, sometimes delusional, and has attempted suicide multiple times. I also know that their daughter, who is a young teen now, has had behavior problems in school (anger/violence issues) and been getting suspended since she was in preschool!
So last night my brother called to tell me that while he was away yesterday afternoon, his wife got angry at his daughter and tried to choke her. They both told him this when he got home. He also admitted that CPS has been involved with his daughter for a while now because a while back his wife admitted to a therapist that she had been thinking about running her car off the road while driving my niece around. He told me that CPS warned him then that he had to protect his daughter from her mother, and that he realizes that this choking incident means he has to do something. He said he would talk to my niece's counselor today and go from there, and that he would ask his wife to move out for at least a while. But he also seemed unsure, kept telling me that sometimes his wife is a good mother, that he doesn't want his wife and daughter to not be allowed to see each other. I asked him if he was going to tell his daughter's counselor the whole story, and he didn't seem sure about that either. I told him I would call him tonight to see how it went with the counselor.
So obviously this is tough. Brings back memories of childhood abuse that I suffered, and leaves me struggling to define boundaries. I usually try to take a hands off approach to my brother and sister's problems, but in this case there is an innocent kid involved! I hope my brother will tell his daughter's counselor exactly what happened and that the counselor will notify CPS, but I don't feel like I can necessarily count on my brother to be honest with me about whether that happened because he is always hiding his problems and his wife's bad behavior from me. I didn't even know CPS was already involved until last night! So I'm left struggling with whether to call CPS no matter what or whether to hold off if it sounds like my brother is really addressing the situation. I'm also wondering whether to tell my brother that I plan to call CPS if I do. (I think I am the only one he has told about this, so I think he would figure out it was me even if I called anonymously.) I just feel pretty lost and sad about the whole thing. I want to do the right thing for my niece, but I'm also afraid of making my brother angry enough that I don't get to see my niece any more.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers! -JJJ
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I think his wife should not be allowed to be alone with the child, she has tried to choke her and admitted to thinking about killing her. Someone needs to protect this child...now. Before it is too late.
Please make sure CPS is aware of the danger. Someone needs to be the voice of the child.
I am so sorry you are going through this, and sorry for the abuse of your past.
Hugs
Please make sure CPS is aware of the danger. Someone needs to be the voice of the child.
I am so sorry you are going through this, and sorry for the abuse of your past.
Hugs
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Thanks so much, Ann, a little affirmation makes so much difference. I told my brother that I thought CPS should be told, and he came up with so many reasons why not, now his wife is saying she only lunged and her and didn't actually choke her, that my niece is lying, that his mother-in-law begged him not to report it. My brother thinks that his wife can continue to live in the home and he can keep the two of them apart. I told him that I still felt obligated to tell CPS, and he actually took it OK. I guess he realizes somewhere deep down that what is going on is not OK. I just pray that somehow my niece will be separated from her mother before she gets even more hurt than she already is.
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Unless he is there 24/7/365, he cannot keep them apart. This is fantasy. I agree that CPS should be told and let the chips fall where they may. So many times, people are in denial until something horrific happens and then it's too late. As Ann said, someone needs to be the voice for this child.
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JJJ, This post hit me between the eyes. Years ago, my mother was nuts. She was emotionally unstable and my dad would leave my sister and I alone with her. One day, after school, she was angry and chased my sister and I up the stairs for some small infraction. Our door to our bedroom had no handle so my sister and I had to hold the door shut so she could not come in (she was swearing at us saying she was going to kill us). My mother took a 2x4 and tried to break down the door. Luckily my dad came home just then, heard us calling for help and came running up the stairs and took her into their room. MY sister and I were scared to death. Nothing was ever done (although I am sure my dad talked to her). My sister and I had resentment for YEARS because my dad knowingly continued to leave us alone with her. I can tell you from experience and from your niece's behavior that she has been begging for help for many years. She will not only hate her mother she will hate her father as well for not protecting her and leaving her alone. Not only would I suggest you let CPS know but I would let your brother know how his daughter will blame him for not coming to her rescue. Is there any way you can speak to her about this? It sounds like she needs someone she trusts in the family that she feels cares enough to protect her. I realize she has a counselor but from my own experience I wish someone had stepped in and shown they cared what was happening to my sister and I. I hope your niece gets the helps she needs. This kind of treatment by a parent leaves scars that last a lifetime.
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I agree, Suki! My brother is kidding himself if he thinks he can police what goes on between his wife and daughter 24/7/365! He has been in this situation for so long, I think he is terrified of change and very codependent with his wife. He doesn't have any friends. Her family is his only support network. That would be his problem as far as I'm concerned, except that as you all have said, someone needs to be the voice for his daughter!
Needingabreak, thanks so much for sharing your story. My parents were both violent toward me at times, but I have so few clear memories of it. I remember a couple of the assaults, but I think I blocked a lot out. But I do remember the constant terror and anxiety I lived in, and I still look back and feel sad that no one protected me. I remember that a couple times adults at school would notice something was wrong and ask me if I was OK, but I was too terrified to tell them what was going on. I'm not sure if I even realized how not OK things were in my house as a child.
I have to say, as gut-wrenching as this situation is, it was kind of empowering to tell my brother that I am going to call CPS. I learned very young to keep secrets when there was trouble at home, and it feels good to break that pattern. I know it's much easier to tell my brother's secrets than it would be if the secrets were mine, but I pray that I will never be in another relationship or domestic situation where I feel so alarmed by or ashamed of what is going on that I feel I have to hide it.
Needingabreak, thanks so much for sharing your story. My parents were both violent toward me at times, but I have so few clear memories of it. I remember a couple of the assaults, but I think I blocked a lot out. But I do remember the constant terror and anxiety I lived in, and I still look back and feel sad that no one protected me. I remember that a couple times adults at school would notice something was wrong and ask me if I was OK, but I was too terrified to tell them what was going on. I'm not sure if I even realized how not OK things were in my house as a child.
I have to say, as gut-wrenching as this situation is, it was kind of empowering to tell my brother that I am going to call CPS. I learned very young to keep secrets when there was trouble at home, and it feels good to break that pattern. I know it's much easier to tell my brother's secrets than it would be if the secrets were mine, but I pray that I will never be in another relationship or domestic situation where I feel so alarmed by or ashamed of what is going on that I feel I have to hide it.
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Oh, and I tried to talk to her a little tonight on the phone. I told her that I heard she had a bad day yesterday, and she said "yes, it's a complicated story," (already learning when to keep quiet!), and I told her that I hope she knows that it's not OK for anyone to put their hands on her, and that she can call me anytime if she needs help. I didn't want to press her more than that, we just talked about school and stuff. I thought about telling her that I was going to call someone who could help her, but I'm a little worried because I know she is still attached to her Mom, and I don't want her to blame me if she and her mom end up being separated. Maybe at some point I will find a way to talk to her more openly about what is going on?
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JJJ I am so sorry you too had to live a childhood filled with anxiety (and terror). I am not sure if you are close to your niece or not but it sounds like someone needs to step in and help this poor kid. I do not think putting her in a foster home would be a good idea but someone definitely needs to be checking on her. I know my dad lives in a world of denial where everything will always be just fine. My mom's worst day was always on Sunday and guess who was gone every single Sunday till at least 2pm? By the time we were old enough to drive we threatened my dad with leaving and living with my grandparents (his mom and dad). Funny enough both my sister and I left home shortly after graduation from HS never to return. I have a decent relationship with both my parents but I have never shown nor spoken of any resentment. They have no clue how their behavior affected me nor do I think they believe they did anything wrong. I am glad you have the guts to step in and say something. We never told anyone what was going on in our home either. We were way too embarrassed by my mother's behavior and sometimes people did witness it. I hope everything works out for your niece. I am glad you were able to speak to her. Even if she was too embarrassed or scared to share what has been going on I have no doubt whatsoever that your calling and letting her know you care and are there for her means the world to her. I would not let her know you are calling. That would only cause her more anxiety about what would happen next. Please let us know how you make out with everything. Your family will be in my prayers.
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Needingabreak, I'm sorry you went through that as a kid. I'm glad that you had a sister to back you up! My sister and I also had a very close bond and protected each other from my parents, and were also able to just laugh at them sometimes or agree they were being crazy. I guess she gave me affirmation? Anyway, you're right, it is very hard as an adult to deal with memories of abuse and to wonder how things might have been different if someone had tried to intervene. It helps to hear other people's stories and realize I'm not the only one who survived that kind of childhood. I am going to do my best to help my niece. Maybe it will help me to process my own lingering anger that no one every held my parents accountable? They have passed on, so I have had to make my peace with them. It must be hard for you to see them and have them still be in denial!
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I agree, Suki. It's going to rock the boat, but it's a small price to pay. My brother's wife and her family will definitely be angry at me, and my brother and niece might be, too, but I've noticed that when one person tries to change a family dynamic, a lot of times everyone else turns on them. But that doesn't mean the dynamic isn't worth changing!
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JJJ I was like Cinderella cleaning, cooking, picking up after them always. A few years ago my dad exclaimed in front of everyone "My daughter LOVES to clean!" I sat there in shock and disbelief! He actually tells himself this. Yes dad I really enjoyed cleaning up after you and mom like a slave for years because if I didn't the house would be disgusting and I couldn't have friends over. The denial is unbelievable.
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I do not know how the CPS works where you live.
I think you can risk that everyone turns against you – but it is the right thing to do. Abused kids can be very loyal towards their parent but I think in the long run it is better for them to meet an adult that takes a stand and says this is out of line and has to stop.
I do understand that mental illness can be very difficult but we should never allow that a child is attack by its parent – I think I would intervene.
I think you can risk that everyone turns against you – but it is the right thing to do. Abused kids can be very loyal towards their parent but I think in the long run it is better for them to meet an adult that takes a stand and says this is out of line and has to stop.
I do understand that mental illness can be very difficult but we should never allow that a child is attack by its parent – I think I would intervene.
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You are saving her. It sounds like he knows it needs to be done but does not want to accept the responsibility of doing it himself, he wants another to be the fall guy. That's ok, it will be worth it. Abuse is NEVER ok under any circumstance. And it is good she knows she can talk to you and you are there for her.
Many prayers for all of you.
Many prayers for all of you.
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I'm glad you talked to her and let you know you are there for her. Contacting CPS is the right thing to do. You are actively working to end the cycle of violence in your family. Good for you!!! Yes, she is going to be defensive of her mother. That is normal in this circumstance. However, she knows you are there for you and that you are willing to stand up. That means something-- even if she is unable to express it or even feel it yet.
I'm glad you are willing to stop the secrecy and denial in your family. I've been in your niece's position, so I say, "thank you."
I'm glad you are willing to stop the secrecy and denial in your family. I've been in your niece's position, so I say, "thank you."
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Thanks so much to all of you! Your support means so much to me. My brother is trying so hard to convince me not to call. I told him that I would call tomorrow so that he can call first if he wants. I wanted to give him a chance to be the one to call first. But he just called me and told me that he told his mother-in-law, and she is very angry and afraid my sister-in-law will end up in jail. He also says his MIL is angry at him for telling me what happened! First of all, I don't think his wife is going to end up in jail. But that is seriously so messed up that she is more worried about protecting her daughter from jail than protecting her granddaughter from being strangled. I mean, that's the reality here, and no one can seem to admit it. Oh, well. I'm definitely calling tomorrow.
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Yes, I told him I would wait until tomorrow because I thought maybe he would choose to call first, but instead I am getting repeated phone calls from him asking me not to call. I just ignored his second call in a couple hours. I think maybe I will just call this evening and get it over with so that it's done and there can be no more pleading from him.
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I would let your brother know that you could not live with yourself if something happened to your niece. I would let him know that you have faith in his ability to deal with the consequences of having CPS involved. These actions and statements from your SIL may be a cry for help.
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Originally Posted by jjj111 
Hello all! I'm having a hard time with my brother and would love to have your support and advice. I usually post here about my sister, who is addicted to opiates, and this post about my brother might be a little off topic for this forum because there isn't any addiction involved as far as I know, but there is codependency, family craziness, and domestic abuse involved, and I would value any experience, strength, & hope you can share in that department.
My parents were both alcholics, and my brother and sister and I are all struggling in our own way to cope with the aftermath of that. My brother usually keeps quiet about his problems, but I know that his wife is mentally ill, sometimes delusional, and has attempted suicide multiple times. I also know that their daughter, who is a young teen now, has had behavior problems in school (anger/violence issues) and been getting suspended since she was in preschool!
So last night my brother called to tell me that while he was away yesterday afternoon, his wife got angry at his daughter and tried to choke her. They both told him this when he got home. He also admitted that CPS has been involved with his daughter for a while now because a while back his wife admitted to a therapist that she had been thinking about running her car off the road while driving my niece around. He told me that CPS warned him then that he had to protect his daughter from her mother, and that he realizes that this choking incident means he has to do something. He said he would talk to my niece's counselor today and go from there, and that he would ask his wife to move out for at least a while. But he also seemed unsure, kept telling me that sometimes his wife is a good mother, that he doesn't want his wife and daughter to not be allowed to see each other. I asked him if he was going to tell his daughter's counselor the whole story, and he didn't seem sure about that either. I told him I would call him tonight to see how it went with the counselor.
So obviously this is tough. Brings back memories of childhood abuse that I suffered, and leaves me struggling to define boundaries. I usually try to take a hands off approach to my brother and sister's problems, but in this case there is an innocent kid involved! I hope my brother will tell his daughter's counselor exactly what happened and that the counselor will notify CPS, but I don't feel like I can necessarily count on my brother to be honest with me about whether that happened because he is always hiding his problems and his wife's bad behavior from me. I didn't even know CPS was already involved until last night! So I'm left struggling with whether to call CPS no matter what or whether to hold off if it sounds like my brother is really addressing the situation. I'm also wondering whether to tell my brother that I plan to call CPS if I do. (I think I am the only one he has told about this, so I think he would figure out it was me even if I called anonymously.) I just feel pretty lost and sad about the whole thing. I want to do the right thing for my niece, but I'm also afraid of making my brother angry enough that I don't get to see my niece any more.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers! -JJJ
My parents were both alcholics, and my brother and sister and I are all struggling in our own way to cope with the aftermath of that. My brother usually keeps quiet about his problems, but I know that his wife is mentally ill, sometimes delusional, and has attempted suicide multiple times. I also know that their daughter, who is a young teen now, has had behavior problems in school (anger/violence issues) and been getting suspended since she was in preschool!
So last night my brother called to tell me that while he was away yesterday afternoon, his wife got angry at his daughter and tried to choke her. They both told him this when he got home. He also admitted that CPS has been involved with his daughter for a while now because a while back his wife admitted to a therapist that she had been thinking about running her car off the road while driving my niece around. He told me that CPS warned him then that he had to protect his daughter from her mother, and that he realizes that this choking incident means he has to do something. He said he would talk to my niece's counselor today and go from there, and that he would ask his wife to move out for at least a while. But he also seemed unsure, kept telling me that sometimes his wife is a good mother, that he doesn't want his wife and daughter to not be allowed to see each other. I asked him if he was going to tell his daughter's counselor the whole story, and he didn't seem sure about that either. I told him I would call him tonight to see how it went with the counselor.
So obviously this is tough. Brings back memories of childhood abuse that I suffered, and leaves me struggling to define boundaries. I usually try to take a hands off approach to my brother and sister's problems, but in this case there is an innocent kid involved! I hope my brother will tell his daughter's counselor exactly what happened and that the counselor will notify CPS, but I don't feel like I can necessarily count on my brother to be honest with me about whether that happened because he is always hiding his problems and his wife's bad behavior from me. I didn't even know CPS was already involved until last night! So I'm left struggling with whether to call CPS no matter what or whether to hold off if it sounds like my brother is really addressing the situation. I'm also wondering whether to tell my brother that I plan to call CPS if I do. (I think I am the only one he has told about this, so I think he would figure out it was me even if I called anonymously.) I just feel pretty lost and sad about the whole thing. I want to do the right thing for my niece, but I'm also afraid of making my brother angry enough that I don't get to see my niece any more.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers! -JJJ
If I had to chose between making my sister angry (I have 2 sisters) and saving my niece, I would choose niece anytime. I cannot imagine what you are going through, but I think your niece does not deserve to be in this type of situation. CPS will step in and remove mother or remove a child, so your brother will have to make a choice. IMXO. Sending you prayers....
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