Johnston

I think abstinence is the best course in the long run.

pravchaw

I think we have to change the way we think about these things. I am pleased my son is not smoking pot everyday. Its every few days now. He has made progress. Setting unrealistic expectation when they are not ready is really setting both us and the A for failure and discouragement.

pravchaw

We are all dead in the long run.

HopefulmomtoD

My son was never able to regulate or control. He tried. For years, we knew he was drinking too much and would try and get him to drink less and less often and he would. And, then something would happen, and he'd be right back at it. Finally, he figured out that he can not drink like a "normal" person. (This may be a way that alcoholism is different than other addictions.)

Selfishly, I sometimes think it would be nice if my son could drink like a normal person and not be labeled an alcoholic. But, I hope he never wants to try it out again because he may not make it out this time.

I think your son's life will speak for itself. Right now, he is not functioning. Will reducing allow him to get his life back on track? Time will tell. You just need to decide what your boundaries are while he figures it out.

Johnston

I'm worried about the time leading up till then...

pravchaw

Given that abstinence and/or death (and taxes) are the only long run options what should the A do in the short run? (and I know we have to keep the focus on ourselves and we should stop trying to change some one else).

But if I was an A and not ready for abstinence, Isn't reduction the only thing left to do for A who are able to reduce? The alternative is "hitting bottom" which may be sadly for a lot of people prison, premature death or both.

jjj111

Pravchaw, you are spending a lot of time thinking about what your goals for your son are and what would be best for him to do in the short run. The thing is, IMHO, it doesn't matter what your goals for him are or what you think he should do. He is an adult and he will make his own decisions, set his own goals, and decide what is best for him. Maybe you should try out having NO expectations or goals for him? It might really help your serenity to try to just accept that your son is where he needs to be. It might also help your son to have all the pressure of your goals and expectations lifted.

pravchaw

I get that jjj (at least intellectually; though admittedly I am a novice at the practice of "letting go"). He is still living in my house so my expectations (or boundaries if you will) are that he will work on his program and not be intoxicated or use in the house. So I am pleased that he is making progress by limiting his use - I don't like it - but it is progress.

Kindeyes

Pravchaw
In Nar-Anon we say "progress not perfection". I suppose that shouldn't be a one way street.......I get what you're saying. You asked for opinions and many have offered them. Personally, I think that abstinence is best.....but certainly harm reduction is important.

Unfortunately, we don't always get to tell our adult children what is best for them.....and often......if we do.....they seem to take that as a challenge to defy us. This is why I have simply stopped with the expectation thing. Boundaries......absolutely. Expectations......nope. I'm 55 years old and sometimes.....my 79 year old mother tries to tell me what I should do......it still rubs me the wrong way....even when she's right. lol

Hope and pray.....and take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

LoveMeNow

How is that misleading or dangerous? Hitting bottom is not always death or jail. IMO, hitting bottom simply means being sick and tired of being sick and tired and a change is desired.

Since a bottom is ANY negative consequence, and can be a catalyst for making changes, I think the concept is sound. A bottom for going on a diet could be just feeling bloated. A bottom for better studying habits could be just pulling an all-nighter. A bottom for an addict could be just going in late to work one day.

Also, I found for me that the idea of having ANY expectations for my husband's recovery to be quite arrogant. Codependency is often described as a disease of our own egos, which fully makes sense to me now.

Lastly, since I am not an addict or claim to be an expert on the subject.....

I am left asking myself......if every addict that has posted on this thread says abstinence doesn't work, but NIDA says it does. Who am I going to believe, someone who has been in the trenches or someone who has read about it in a book?

I choose to take the experience, strength, and hope of others who have actually walked their own journey to recovery.

MIRecovery

So what is the game plan when his use starts going up which it inevitably will? How do you know that he's telling you the truth? I can only speak for myself but I know that I was a pathological liar when I was inactive addiction.

KeepinItReal

I really have to say that as an ex-active user cutting down was a good thing and it's how I quit doing most of the "hard" drugs. I went through horrible withdrawls and night terrors, sweating, anxiety for about a little under 2 years after I had quit "hard" drugs. I switched to only smoking weed and taking vicodin everyday in 2006. It took me until 2009 to get off that prescription and quit smoking for good. I can honestly tell you ... that I didn't have a "bottom" I was just sick of being a slave of needing pills. I noticed that I didn't need weed... the less I smoked it. Eventually I quit weed because it was expensive and I didn't like how it made me feel. (weird) for someone who loved it for so long.
Maybe I had a divine intervention... and was too stoned to realize it. I'm not sure. Yet, quitting is possible.. and little victories are ok IMHO. Eventually he will WANT to not use drugs, because they are not fun anymore. They put you in slavery. (at least with pills)
As far as weed... it sounds like he enjoys the high.. or he may believe he needs it. I believed I needed it.
Good luck.

MsPINKAcres

complete abstinence. . .

I know what I observed in my exah ~
he hit what I & everyone else including him thought was rock bottom ~ he lost all his friends, family, wife, daughters & grandchildren ~ he was in rehab for the 4th time, charges pending against him for stealing his daughter's check book & forging her name & writing hot checks, DUI charges, on and on and on. . .
He got sober, made restitution, reestablished trust with his family, went to work & kept a job, on & on & on. . .
shortly before 3 yrs sober - he had to have surgery - the dr prescribed pain meds.
he & his sponsor discussed it ~ his sponsor said, yes you are an addict, but you don't have to live in pain. That's all the disease inside of him needed ~ from the time it took that first pain pill til today ~ that disease is in total complete control of him & his life

would abstinence have kept him on the right track . . . no one will never know. . . his grandchildren will never know. . .

this disease is cunning, baffling and powerful and those who are ready to fight against it must be ready to go to any lengths ~ only it is their fight not ours. .

just my e, s, & h

wishing each of you the understanding, love & peace of the program
pink hugs

pravchaw

Boundaries yes, Negative consequences sure, loving detachment yes, but Rock Bottom?
George McGovern's Addiction Legacy | The Fix

pravchaw

All good questions - but, I don't know. I can only make sure my boundaries are in place and be available to help when he is ready.

pravchaw

Another good question, which prompts me to ask. If you have cancer, whose advise would you take - that of a cancer survivor or an oncologist?
(sorry for the cancer comparison in advance - please don't flame me).

miamifella

I was a heavy crack user, went to rehab and did 12-step programs and got 18 months before using. I think that is in part because I had no money and did not know where to buy the stuff.

Over the next few years I did cut back considerably to using only a few times a year. I was not able to quit entirely, but I did reduce it until I could quit.

However, the whole time I was trying for complete abstinence. I do not know if I could have even cut down if I had not been trying to quit.

So I think the expectation of abstinence is a good thing, even if it is not met.

Eve13

I would ask the cancer survivor what they did to achieve good results and who was their great oncologist.

MIRecovery

I would definately set some very clear boundries and consequences if your plan goes south. I might even put them in writing and have him sign them so there can be no misunderstandings.

bluebelle

My experience -- My mom is a pot addict. I remember begging and pleading with her to stop using in the house and to stop selling. She had been arrested, and I was afraid the authorities would remove me from the house if they knew that I knew she was using/dealing (I was a kid). She said she would stop, but it just caused her to hide it more. I'd smell it and say something--she'd deny it, or say it was the last time.

Even though I grew up around people smoking it, I couldn't always tell if she was high or smoking it. Plus, she used so much, that it became the way she always was.

It became stressful for me--always trying to determine if I smelled pot, did she act like she had been smoking? Are there people calling the house/visiting to buy drugs? (There was). It can just be really hard to act like a warden trying to keep the pot out of your house. Do you search everything? I'm not giving advice--just letting you know my experience.