Can anyone explain this part....

Old 09-26-2013, 03:55 PM
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Hey LMN, I just finished reading your entire thread and does it ever sound like mt AD talking! Such hateful words, blame, guilt (pointed at me) coming from her mouth. One minute saying she wants to attempt to be sober the next she throws in the hat, and tells me she might as well use so she can feel "better". She is seeing an addiction psychologist who is an ex-heroin abuser and is wanting Methadone. But if she doesn't get her way, here comes a temper tantrum! Like ripping that lollipop outta a toddlers mouth, I can already hear it. And why does the addict always hurt the ones that love them the most? I've always wondered that, why us? We just want to help, not fix them, that's their job, but love them. My AD certainly is powerless over her addiction, that's gotta be why she acts and speaks the way she does when the withdrawals come a calling, which seems to be every time she comes home (humm that's interesting!) I am the enemy of addiction, I am the sobriety looking for takers to my world! I am hoping someday, when she is ready, she will make the right choice! Hugs and take car! TF
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:25 PM
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I am so incredibly thankful for this post!!! I've been struggling with the same thing even though I know it's not my fault etc....I haven't been able to wrap my brain around why my ExAH said nasty things either. It's not like I haven't heard all of this before, but I think the timing was just right to really hear it. Thanks everyone!
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:31 PM
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IMO, I think it's just his addiction and/or addict voice talking.

When my husband was clean and working a recovery, I literally could see his addict voice calling by the expression on his face. It was like a little angel on one shoulder and a little devil on the other.

Sadly, I think he has thrown in the towel, his addiction is in control now so there is no humility and more importantly no God.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:37 PM
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I have been reading some of your posts about your separation / divorce? Not sure which it is, but in one of them you confessed to sending him a whole bunch of angry texts messages and stuff. Probably whatever caused you to do that, same reason he is sending them to you. We all get in pain, fear and say things we regret, or out of whatever emotion. Im guilty too, when my husband relapsed, and I had to talk to him when he was threatening to leave rehab I lost it. I was scared mostly, but I said things I didnt mean in my heart, they were of the moment. I apologized and all that. But I have been looking within to see why I said what I did. If you two are ending things, I think that causes anger and pain, its probably spewing out of him, especially when he is high. I had one sort of conversation with my husband when he was missing and high and sick. He made no sense, bits and pieces, and I dont think he knew what he was saying, or a little but not really. I hope I never see (or hear) that side of him again. Im sorry your going through all this, very sad when a marriage ends.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
I have been reading some of your posts about your separation / divorce? Not sure which it is, but in one of them you confessed to sending him a whole bunch of angry texts messages and stuff. Probably whatever caused you to do that, same reason he is sending them to you. We all get in pain, fear and say things we regret, or out of whatever emotion. Im guilty too, when my husband relapsed, and I had to talk to him when he was threatening to leave rehab I lost it. I was scared mostly, but I said things I didnt mean in my heart, they were of the moment. I apologized and all that. But I have been looking within to see why I said what I did. If you two are ending things, I think that causes anger and pain, its probably spewing out of him, especially when he is high. I had one sort of conversation with my husband when he was missing and high and sick. He made no sense, bits and pieces, and I dont think he knew what he was saying, or a little but not really. I hope I never see (or hear) that side of him again. Im sorry your going through all this, very sad when a marriage ends.
Thank you!


Their brain becomes very sick for a long time, not just when they are high. It is literally rewired. Healing can take place with no use but the brain changes are life long.

As for my angry texts, I was reacting not taking action. It was a relapse on my part. Nothing more, nothing less!
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:33 PM
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I am sorry he went back out, this just sucks, for everyone.

And yeah this is just addiction, in that moment it was you. If someone else was in his sights at that time they would have got the brunt of it.

(((hugs)))

You know what you gotta do, lately it seems as if it is all coming together and clicking in your head...

Take good care of you.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:50 AM
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LMN
If you've never watched Brene Brown's TEDTalk on Vunerability.......take a look. I was watching it this morning for the umpteenth time and she said something that immediately made me think of you and this thread.

Blame is a way to discharge pain and discomfort.

He is simply trying to ease his own pain and discomfort. It is why addicts blame us and why we blame the addict. It's far easier to express anger and blame someone else....than it is to look at ourselves and say "this is my part"......

It's not about you.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow View Post
Thank you!


Their brain becomes very sick for a long time, not just when they are high. It is literally rewired. Healing can take place with no use but the brain changes are life long.

As for my angry texts, I was reacting not taking action. It was a relapse on my part. Nothing more, nothing less!
The way I understand it, and I will now use my father in laws big word: Plastiticty, but the mind will always remember using drugs and the feeling and thats why people relapse. all the other symptoms that my husband is experiencing, Im told by the doctor they will go away in time because the brain will fully heal.

Wasnt this a relapse on your husbands part also, nothing more, nothing less?
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:01 PM
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Im told by the doctor they will go away in time because the brain will fully heal.

addiction doesn't go away, the brain never FULLY heals...all recovering addicts are exactly ONE bad decision away from returning to using. that's why addict and alcoholics with multiple decades of recovery can still relapse. addiction is ALWAYS there, inside of us. there is no cure. as long as we never use again, we have a reprieve. that's it, a reprieve.

unless the addict fully recognizes and respects their nemesis, ADDICTION, they will never get that reprieve. play with fire, you will get burned. if we do not protect our sobriety, recovery, every day, in all ways, we leave ourselves open to the resurgence of the demon. it's never far away, it lurks in the bushes. get a little too reminiscent remembering the good old days...let daily life stuff build up too much and get the F*ck its, thinking again that ONE couldn't hurt, I deserve, nothing bad will happen, I have control of this.....and Thunder comes flying out of chute #3.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:37 PM
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Well at least for me... this is my opinion:

If anyone stands between me and my drug they are my enemy. LMN you are fearfully and wonderfully made. I am so sorry about your situation.
Its just the devil. The devil hates the light. I believe that it is the enemy with him that is being mean. The devil is mean to all of gods children. I pulled away from everyone who had the light in them this summer =[ I believe it is spiritual warfare. You sound like you have some tough armor LMN. Hugs.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
Im told by the doctor they will go away in time because the brain will fully heal.

addiction doesn't go away, the brain never FULLY heals...all recovering addicts are exactly ONE bad decision away from returning to using. that's why addict and alcoholics with multiple decades of recovery can still relapse. addiction is ALWAYS there, inside of us. there is no cure. as long as we never use again, we have a reprieve. that's it, a reprieve.

unless the addict fully recognizes and respects their nemesis, ADDICTION, they will never get that reprieve. play with fire, you will get burned. if we do not protect our sobriety, recovery, every day, in all ways, we leave ourselves open to the resurgence of the demon. it's never far away, it lurks in the bushes. get a little too reminiscent remembering the good old days...let daily life stuff build up too much and get the F*ck its, thinking again that ONE couldn't hurt, I deserve, nothing bad will happen, I have control of this.....and Thunder comes flying out of chute #3.
I dont know about all that, but the doctor at the rehab told me to think about it like diabetes. The diabetic cant eat sugar, my husband cant use cocaine or substances that mimic cocaine. The diabetic brain never forgets sugar, and many diabetics have emotional ties to sugar which makes them want sugar. My husbands brain wont forget cocaine, and he has many emotional ties to the drug that make him want it too. Diabetic eats sugar and gets sick, maybe dies. my husband uses drugs gets sick, maybe dies. Its not so complicated.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
The way I understand it, and I will now use my father in laws big word: Plastiticty, but the mind will always remember using drugs and the feeling and thats why people relapse. all the other symptoms that my husband is experiencing, Im told by the doctor they will go away in time because the brain will fully heal.

Wasnt this a relapse on your husbands part also, nothing more, nothing less?
Hmmm....let's see how can say this....

When I take a substance to get high or avoid life, when said substances causes me to lie, steal, manipulate, blame or cheat, I will start comparing. Until then, I will continue to work on me, stay on my side of the street and try my best not to react to his insanity. Progress not perfection.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
I dont know about all that, but the doctor at the rehab told me to think about it like diabetes. The diabetic cant eat sugar, my husband cant use cocaine or substances that mimic cocaine. The diabetic brain never forgets sugar, and many diabetics have emotional ties to sugar which makes them want sugar. My husbands brain wont forget cocaine, and he has many emotional ties to the drug that make him want it too. Diabetic eats sugar and gets sick, maybe dies. my husband uses drugs gets sick, maybe dies. Its not so complicated.
Ok here is another way of seeing it that I just saw in pravchaws blog.

If people were cucumbers, then an addct is a pickle and drugs are the brine. Once the cucumber becomes a pickle it will always be a pickle. It cannot ever be a cucumber again.

Sorry LMN for going OT on your thread. I'll try to sit on my hands.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Lily1918 View Post
Ok here is another way of seeing it that I just saw in pravchaws blog.

If people were cucumbers, then an addct is a pickle and drugs are the brine. Once the cucumber becomes a pickle it will always be a pickle. It cannot ever be a cucumber again.

Sorry LMN for going OT on your thread. I'll try to sit on my hands.
Once a person becomes a diabetic, they will always be a diabetic.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueChair View Post
The way I understand it, and I will now use my father in laws big word: Plastiticty, but the mind will always remember using drugs and the feeling and thats why people relapse. all the other symptoms that my husband is experiencing, Im told by the doctor they will go away in time because the brain will fully heal.

Wasnt this a relapse on your husbands part also, nothing more, nothing less?
BC
I know lots of addicts. Lots. And many of them have 20-25 years clean. They will tell you they are one bad decision away from falling back into active addiction. With all due respect for the addiction doctor, it's possible that you may have heard and interpreted what you wanted to hear because plasticity refers to a permanent change......not one that repairs to its original state (according to physics and neuroscience). Do the cravings lessen over time? Absolutely....to the point that it (according to the addicts with long term recovery) isn't really a huge issue to their day to day lives anymore.......but.....pick up......even once and they know they could spiral quickly into full blown active addiction. BAM.

The difference between relapse and active addiction? A relapse would be the addict uses, recognizes that this could head south quickly, and they do what they need to do to get back on track with recovery FAST. Active addiction is when they go back into the deceitful behaviors, hiding their use, lying and covering up their use. Relapse can happen......but there is a razors edge between "relapse" and "active addiction". And not even the brightest MD or PhD can predict which will happen to any given individual. Serial relapsers are active addicts.

There are several people here on SR who have newly experienced addiction with their loved one (less than a year or two). Some are extremely surprised to find out that what they thought was a recent occurrence has been going on for years. There are others who have been dealing with addiction for 5, 10, 15+ years......or they are addicts in recovery themselves. My gentle suggestion to all of the folks who have loved ones who have been recently diagnosed as "addicts" pay attention to those who have lots of experience......particularly recovering addicts. Take what you need and store the rest (you may find their information comes in handy in the future).

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:35 AM
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In my own experience with my AH I found that maintenance is his hardest battle. I believe this is caused from stress and him not being able to handle day to day "normal" life stresses. I think the fact that he's being put under pressure and stress from his job in a controlled environment where there are no dealers lurking and eager to sell him drugs (to make their profits) was a great thing! It sounds like the rehab he has gone to know what they are doing!! Especially the fact that when he comes out he will be working and this will be his every day life.
I personally took up a hobby to keep myself busy during the time my husband was home. I still enjoyed cooking dinner and doing family meals and watching t.v. shows with him.. but when he was tired or moody and just wanted to relax I focused on my hobby. (which happens to be couponing) It seemed like in my husbands life.. he was able to hold down his job.. until he relapsed and then would spin out of control in all aspects (pretty quickly). He is not a functional addict.
I also think your still in shock.. just finding out about a loved one's chronic disease that will be life long is pretty SHOCKING! Even if it were diabetes. They would still want to regulate their own diet with help. You can tell a diabetic to not eat cake.. but you know what?? It's their choice!! It's sad. My mom and sister and father are diabetic. (my father passed away from heart complications). Good luck.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Kindeyes View Post
BC
I know lots of addicts. Lots. And many of them have 20-25 years clean. They will tell you they are one bad decision away from falling back into active addiction. With all due respect for the addiction doctor, it's possible that you may have heard and interpreted what you wanted to hear because plasticity refers to a permanent change......not one that repairs to its original state (according to physics and neuroscience). Do the cravings lessen over time? Absolutely....to the point that it (according to the addicts with long term recovery) isn't really a huge issue to their day to day lives anymore.......but.....pick up......even once and they know they could spiral quickly into full blown active addiction. BAM.

The difference between relapse and active addiction? A relapse would be the addict uses, recognizes that this could head south quickly, and they do what they need to do to get back on track with recovery FAST. Active addiction is when they go back into the deceitful behaviors, hiding their use, lying and covering up their use. Relapse can happen......but there is a razors edge between "relapse" and "active addiction". And not even the brightest MD or PhD can predict which will happen to any given individual. Serial relapsers are active addicts.

There are several people here on SR who have newly experienced addiction with their loved one (less than a year or two). Some are extremely surprised to find out that what they thought was a recent occurrence has been going on for years. There are others who have been dealing with addiction for 5, 10, 15+ years......or they are addicts in recovery themselves. My gentle suggestion to all of the folks who have loved ones who have been recently diagnosed as "addicts" pay attention to those who have lots of experience......particularly recovering addicts. Take what you need and store the rest (you may find their information comes in handy in the future).

gentle hugs
ke
No I didn’t hear what I wanted to hear from the professional doctors at the rehab, it was explained to me clearly, as it has also been explained to me by my husbands parents who have dealt with their sons issues long before I came into the picture. They are as experienced and as educated on the matter as anyone in my opinion. My father in law was the one who mentioned plasticity, and yes it refers to a permanent change in the brain, the memory of drug use, the link to emotions and can cause relapse. It will always be there and that is why addiction is a disease. All those things you mentioned, the behaviors addicts show those are the symptoms of their disease. Again it is not that complicated. It hurts like he(( when you’re a wife, or a parent, but it is what it is. I am understanding now what caused my husband to relapse, but it started way before his decision to actually use.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KeepinItReal View Post
In my own experience with my AH I found that maintenance is his hardest battle. I believe this is caused from stress and him not being able to handle day to day "normal" life stresses. I think the fact that he's being put under pressure and stress from his job in a controlled environment where there are no dealers lurking and eager to sell him drugs (to make their profits) was a great thing! It sounds like the rehab he has gone to know what they are doing!! Especially the fact that when he comes out he will be working and this will be his every day life.
I personally took up a hobby to keep myself busy during the time my husband was home. I still enjoyed cooking dinner and doing family meals and watching t.v. shows with him.. but when he was tired or moody and just wanted to relax I focused on my hobby. (which happens to be couponing) It seemed like in my husbands life.. he was able to hold down his job.. until he relapsed and then would spin out of control in all aspects (pretty quickly). He is not a functional addict.
I also think your still in shock.. just finding out about a loved one's chronic disease that will be life long is pretty SHOCKING! Even if it were diabetes. They would still want to regulate their own diet with help. You can tell a diabetic to not eat cake.. but you know what?? It's their choice!! It's sad. My mom and sister and father are diabetic. (my father passed away from heart complications). Good luck.
I think your replying to me? THANK YOU. Yes, on like everything you said. I am worried about maintenance. I am worried about how I will handle things when he comes home. I am still in shock. But Im trying very hard to learn.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:12 AM
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Again it is not that complicated. It hurts like he(( when you’re a wife, or a parent, but it is what it is. I am understanding now what caused my husband to relapse, but it started way before his decision to actually use.
Addiction is complicated. People are complicated. That was a pretty bold statement.

You sound like you've got it all dialed in though and that's great. I'm happy for you!!

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:15 AM
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I think the hardest part for spouses and family members to wrap their heads around is that they think the addict loves them and uses drugs.

Wrong

The addict loves drugs, and uses people.
Thats why I lash out at the people who love me. I dont love them. I love Heroin.
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind, and the second is like it, love others as you love yourself"

Well... an addict could say:
"I love my DOC with all my heart, soul, mind and strength. I dont love myself. Therefore I cant love you."

We end up hurting everyone because of this mentality.
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