Marijuana maintenance
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 74
Marijuana maintenance
Okay, so we're still waiting for the admission to the inpatient program; it seems like it's taking forever, so we're kinda in limbo.
The other night, he asked me if he could smoke marijuana again. Not right now, because well, he'll get drug tested and kicked out of that program. But he genuinely has convinced himself that it's okay to smoke weed while claiming sobriety.
I can think of hundreds of reasons this is NOT okay. I don't want it in the house (we have two small children), it's illegal, etc. But what it comes down to is to me, it feels like you're just substituting one mind-altering addiction for another. I tolerate the tobacco even though I hate it because at least it isn't a mind altering drug. It'll still kill you, but at least you're sober.
I googled it, and learned about marijuana maintenance. There are advocates, there are critics. AA's stance is "hell no" in general.
And frankly, I don't really want him doing it at all. In the past, I didn't have much of a problem with it, but that was before the escalating issues, learning what an addict he is. He is an addictive personality. I am certain that he will escalate his occasional marijuana use to regular use. And I refuse to pay for it (he doesn't work.)
His justification is he feels like he can't have 'fun' with his friends anymore. He has a couple of friends who smoke weed, and all his alcoholic friends have pretty much shunned him. He insists he can be responsible, and that he won't do it in a way that would put future potential work at risk, etc.
Frankly, I don't understand. I've never had trouble hanging out with my friends (some of whom are/were potheads) and have always had fun, and I've never been a smoker, a drinker, or a toker.
I told him I needed time to think about it. It's been a couple of days since then (dealing with a sick child) and I don't know what to say.
I feel like he's grasping at straws, basically this is the "bargaining" stage of grief; he's mourning the loss of his addictions, and he's trying to negotiate for at least one to remain.
One part of me wants to wait until he goes through the addiction program, in hopes that his attitude will change. But he's so damn good at deluding himself and addiction professionals, I don't know that they'll address this.
In the end, I don't want this to be the straw the broke my relationship.
The other night, he asked me if he could smoke marijuana again. Not right now, because well, he'll get drug tested and kicked out of that program. But he genuinely has convinced himself that it's okay to smoke weed while claiming sobriety.
I can think of hundreds of reasons this is NOT okay. I don't want it in the house (we have two small children), it's illegal, etc. But what it comes down to is to me, it feels like you're just substituting one mind-altering addiction for another. I tolerate the tobacco even though I hate it because at least it isn't a mind altering drug. It'll still kill you, but at least you're sober.
I googled it, and learned about marijuana maintenance. There are advocates, there are critics. AA's stance is "hell no" in general.
And frankly, I don't really want him doing it at all. In the past, I didn't have much of a problem with it, but that was before the escalating issues, learning what an addict he is. He is an addictive personality. I am certain that he will escalate his occasional marijuana use to regular use. And I refuse to pay for it (he doesn't work.)
His justification is he feels like he can't have 'fun' with his friends anymore. He has a couple of friends who smoke weed, and all his alcoholic friends have pretty much shunned him. He insists he can be responsible, and that he won't do it in a way that would put future potential work at risk, etc.
Frankly, I don't understand. I've never had trouble hanging out with my friends (some of whom are/were potheads) and have always had fun, and I've never been a smoker, a drinker, or a toker.
I told him I needed time to think about it. It's been a couple of days since then (dealing with a sick child) and I don't know what to say.
I feel like he's grasping at straws, basically this is the "bargaining" stage of grief; he's mourning the loss of his addictions, and he's trying to negotiate for at least one to remain.
One part of me wants to wait until he goes through the addiction program, in hopes that his attitude will change. But he's so damn good at deluding himself and addiction professionals, I don't know that they'll address this.
In the end, I don't want this to be the straw the broke my relationship.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 74
I understand that; I'm not going to give my permission regardless. I have to decide what I'm willing to tolerate, and I'm not willing to tolerate this. The question is, I suppose, how do I tell him this? When?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 180
Hmm, well if he can't do it now because he is serious about getting into this program, then maybe it will work out in the wash?
I would personally hold off on saying anything; wait to see how his ideas change once he's in treatment?
I would personally hold off on saying anything; wait to see how his ideas change once he's in treatment?
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Every alcoholic I have know thought it would be okay to smoke marijuana once in a while and every drug addict I have known thought it would be okay to have the odd beer. Again, in every single case it was just switching one drug for another and in every single case, it was a bad idea that took them back to trouble.
Some people can drink one drink and stop, some can smoke one joint once in a while and not increase the amount over time. Those people are rare and they are not the people we are dealing with here, our addicted loved ones.
Sorry to go on and on.
The time to tell him is next time he asks. It's okay to say "you do what you choose but I choose not to be around anyone who smokes marijuana". That makes it about you, which is what it is, you can choose to walk away from his bad idea and the consequences.
It's okay to have our own values and boundaries, it's okay to make them clear. It's important that we feel comfortable being who we are and holding the ideals we hold for our lives. My life shall never again include anyone who uses drugs of any kind...including marijuana.
Hugs
Some people can drink one drink and stop, some can smoke one joint once in a while and not increase the amount over time. Those people are rare and they are not the people we are dealing with here, our addicted loved ones.
Sorry to go on and on.
The time to tell him is next time he asks. It's okay to say "you do what you choose but I choose not to be around anyone who smokes marijuana". That makes it about you, which is what it is, you can choose to walk away from his bad idea and the consequences.
It's okay to have our own values and boundaries, it's okay to make them clear. It's important that we feel comfortable being who we are and holding the ideals we hold for our lives. My life shall never again include anyone who uses drugs of any kind...including marijuana.
Hugs
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I think it's pretty clear, but yes, you could say "I choose not to live with anyone who uses substance at all". As they say here, "no" is a complete sentence.
Again, you get to express your personal thoughts and boundaries and don't need to walk on eggshells or explain. It's quite clear, really, and although he may twist it into being your fault, it's not. It's a healthy decision to live one's life and keep one's home free from drugs.
I don't allow drugs in my home. (Nor do I allow people who use them someplace else). <---that's my boundary and a complete sentence. It doesn't mean I allow "some" drugs in my home, perhaps I do when I allow prescriptions by a doctor who is treating me, but it would be obtuse to question what I mean when I say "I don't allow drugs in my home".
Don't be afraid, unless he is abusive in which case you have a whole other problem. But to fear their reaction keeps us stuck in our fear. I love the saying "Say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't say it mean."
Hugs
Again, you get to express your personal thoughts and boundaries and don't need to walk on eggshells or explain. It's quite clear, really, and although he may twist it into being your fault, it's not. It's a healthy decision to live one's life and keep one's home free from drugs.
I don't allow drugs in my home. (Nor do I allow people who use them someplace else). <---that's my boundary and a complete sentence. It doesn't mean I allow "some" drugs in my home, perhaps I do when I allow prescriptions by a doctor who is treating me, but it would be obtuse to question what I mean when I say "I don't allow drugs in my home".
Don't be afraid, unless he is abusive in which case you have a whole other problem. But to fear their reaction keeps us stuck in our fear. I love the saying "Say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't say it mean."
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 1,344
I think addiction is more in the person than the substance, at least for many. You should not be replacing them. I have had my fights with nicotine and alcohol – I am even rather vigilant regarding coffee. I would not take up new substances to fight in my age – I would never add to the trouble.
I do not know what you should do – but I strongly suspect he is making a bad decision there.
I do not know what you should do – but I strongly suspect he is making a bad decision there.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
Be forewarned: this response is unforgiving.
Why does he need your permission? What is he, 10 years old? If he wants to toke up, then he should accept responsibility for that choice and not implicitly pin it on someone else, i.e. you or anyone else.
Bullsh*t. Absolute, utter bullsh*t.
If these "friendships" are contigent on the use of mind/conscience altering substances, then I would argue these people aren't his friends but rather fellow users.
So here's your boundary. Enforce it. You're under no obligation to tolerate behaviors that are detrimental to the emotional and physical well-being of you and your young children. No obligation whatsoever. If he wants to smoke pot, fine. He can do it somewhere else.
ZoSo
The other night, he asked me if he could smoke marijuana again. Not right now, because well, he'll get drug tested and kicked out of that program. But he genuinely has convinced himself that it's okay to smoke weed while claiming sobriety.
His justification is he feels like he can't have 'fun' with his friends anymore. He has a couple of friends who smoke weed, and all his alcoholic friends have pretty much shunned him. He insists he can be responsible, and that he won't do it in a way that would put future potential work at risk, etc.
If these "friendships" are contigent on the use of mind/conscience altering substances, then I would argue these people aren't his friends but rather fellow users.
I can think of hundreds of reasons this is NOT okay. I don't want it in the house (we have two small children), it's illegal, etc. But what it comes down to is to me, it feels like you're just substituting one mind-altering addiction for another. I tolerate the tobacco even though I hate it because at least it isn't a mind altering drug. It'll still kill you, but at least you're sober.
ZoSo
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 24
WOW! My AH said he took up smoking pot again over a year ago when he quit drinking for 60 days (he knows I hate this crap) So I said nothing & life went on, well needless to say he started drinking again & kept smoking. I'm in the process of leaving him, done with the empty promises, excuses, justifying it & plain old BS!
I wish you peace of mind as you struggle in this decision
I wish you peace of mind as you struggle in this decision
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 311
My AXBF tried to convince me that he could smoke marijuana and drink alcohol and maintain abstinence from heroin and other narcotics. He neglected to mention- the paranoia, the mood swings, the irritability, the violence, and lameness that comes with it. I told him he did not need to convince me because he already convinced himself.
I have read many articles on cross-addiction, marijuana maintenance, and other alternative recovery theories. Some are really interesting and make good points. The real point of the matter is- it is not our right or responsibility to get involved in their recovery. And it is vital they do it on their own in their own way.
For me, I just knew what I was and was not willing to tolerate. I am still learning. For me, I am not sure how dealing with a now alcoholic pothead will be better than dealing with a heroin addict. In fact, people on heroin are more pleasant in my experience. Bottom line is, how can you believe the empty promises of someone who is always intoxicated? It made me insane.
I believe that if an addict can return to moderate any mind/mood altering substance that they were never really an addict in the first place. But who knows- my opinion might change once I see how my AXBFs plan for alcohol and marijuana maintenance goes. Oh that's right- that is why he is my ex.
Interesting article-
Not Everyone Needs Sobriety | The Fix
I have read many articles on cross-addiction, marijuana maintenance, and other alternative recovery theories. Some are really interesting and make good points. The real point of the matter is- it is not our right or responsibility to get involved in their recovery. And it is vital they do it on their own in their own way.
For me, I just knew what I was and was not willing to tolerate. I am still learning. For me, I am not sure how dealing with a now alcoholic pothead will be better than dealing with a heroin addict. In fact, people on heroin are more pleasant in my experience. Bottom line is, how can you believe the empty promises of someone who is always intoxicated? It made me insane.
I believe that if an addict can return to moderate any mind/mood altering substance that they were never really an addict in the first place. But who knows- my opinion might change once I see how my AXBFs plan for alcohol and marijuana maintenance goes. Oh that's right- that is why he is my ex.
Interesting article-
Not Everyone Needs Sobriety | The Fix
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 1
I've been an alcoholic for at least 20 years, maybe a bit longer. I'm 58, and I started drinking in university at 22, after my mother and my best friend died within 6 weeks of each other. I thought "What am I 'saving' myself from? They were both good people, and they're both gone. Live for today!" A few months after that, I started smoking pot.
Here's the funny thing: when I got married, my wife (who rarely drinks and never smokes pot) asked me to stop smoking pot. Not because she didn't like me when I got high, but because it was illegal. On the other hand, she said nothing about my drinking for years. I put down pot, and didn't smoke (maybe once or twice when I went to university reunions) for twenty years. No cravings, no desperate search for dealers, no hidden stashes - nothing.
We're divorced now - because of my on-again/off-again drinking - and I finally met someone new. She has zero tolerance for me drinking, but she doesn't mind if I smoke on the weekend (and usually only one day at that). I have no problems with that, and have been doing that for six months. I don't find myself even thinking about smoking during the week (unlike drinking, which, even though I'm 7 months sober, every TV commercial/billboard/shot of someone in a movie having a drink triggers my urges).
I don't know what's typical, and I'm certainly not giving any advice to anyone on how to handle it, but I know for me, pot is helping me keep off booze, and it doesn't seem to have any of the addictive issues of booze. We recently spent some time out of the country, and I'd never try to take the stuff across the border, so I just didn't smoke for two weeks. No big deal - didn't even miss it. When I was drinking, I not only would have stopped at the duty free store to get a big bottle, I would have been lurking on the trip, keeping an eye out for places where I could replenish my supply.
Staying sober is still really tough for me, but I'm making it happen. I go to meetings 2-3 times a week, and my new partner is quite open about talking through the issues with me. I'm immensely angry and frustrated at myself for the stupid things I did when I was drinking - cost me a marriage, a bunch of jobs, the respect of my kids. Smoking a bowl on Friday night helps me relax and get a better perspective on my past issues and my future. I wake up Saturday morning refreshed, and ready to enjoy life, not hungover and hiding in bed.
Again, I'm not trying to speak for everybody, but clearly, there are some people who can handle pot but can't handle booze. The biggest harmful attribute of pot - and this is the conclusion of a Royal Commission in Canada - is its illegality, not its effects.
Here's the funny thing: when I got married, my wife (who rarely drinks and never smokes pot) asked me to stop smoking pot. Not because she didn't like me when I got high, but because it was illegal. On the other hand, she said nothing about my drinking for years. I put down pot, and didn't smoke (maybe once or twice when I went to university reunions) for twenty years. No cravings, no desperate search for dealers, no hidden stashes - nothing.
We're divorced now - because of my on-again/off-again drinking - and I finally met someone new. She has zero tolerance for me drinking, but she doesn't mind if I smoke on the weekend (and usually only one day at that). I have no problems with that, and have been doing that for six months. I don't find myself even thinking about smoking during the week (unlike drinking, which, even though I'm 7 months sober, every TV commercial/billboard/shot of someone in a movie having a drink triggers my urges).
I don't know what's typical, and I'm certainly not giving any advice to anyone on how to handle it, but I know for me, pot is helping me keep off booze, and it doesn't seem to have any of the addictive issues of booze. We recently spent some time out of the country, and I'd never try to take the stuff across the border, so I just didn't smoke for two weeks. No big deal - didn't even miss it. When I was drinking, I not only would have stopped at the duty free store to get a big bottle, I would have been lurking on the trip, keeping an eye out for places where I could replenish my supply.
Staying sober is still really tough for me, but I'm making it happen. I go to meetings 2-3 times a week, and my new partner is quite open about talking through the issues with me. I'm immensely angry and frustrated at myself for the stupid things I did when I was drinking - cost me a marriage, a bunch of jobs, the respect of my kids. Smoking a bowl on Friday night helps me relax and get a better perspective on my past issues and my future. I wake up Saturday morning refreshed, and ready to enjoy life, not hungover and hiding in bed.
Again, I'm not trying to speak for everybody, but clearly, there are some people who can handle pot but can't handle booze. The biggest harmful attribute of pot - and this is the conclusion of a Royal Commission in Canada - is its illegality, not its effects.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,618
my issue with pot is that it does not allow me to cope with life on life's terms. My outpatient program tested to enter, but because pot stays in your system 30 days they allowed it, as long as the levels continually decreased while in treatment until I was eventually clean.
I did use pot while detoxing from heroin. I can give you a hundred excuses why. "It made it more comfortable, I don't have insurance for medical detox, it is safer than suboxone..." the list goes on and on.
I struggled with pot for a very long time as a teenager. The door to opiates opened through surgery, and then progressed from there.
I'm sorry for rambling on...
I suppose what I am trying to say is that it is common for people to say that it is "just pot" or medicinal, but that does not make it right.
I am glad to hear that you are taking care of you, and that you know what you are able to tolerate and what you are not.
hugs and lots of support coming your way!
Lily
I did use pot while detoxing from heroin. I can give you a hundred excuses why. "It made it more comfortable, I don't have insurance for medical detox, it is safer than suboxone..." the list goes on and on.
I struggled with pot for a very long time as a teenager. The door to opiates opened through surgery, and then progressed from there.
I'm sorry for rambling on...
I suppose what I am trying to say is that it is common for people to say that it is "just pot" or medicinal, but that does not make it right.
I am glad to hear that you are taking care of you, and that you know what you are able to tolerate and what you are not.
hugs and lots of support coming your way!
Lily
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bridgeport, WV
Posts: 108
I can really identify with your situation. My AH has done similar things and I agree that it really is just substituting one substance with another. I like Ann's comment too and I've been given similar advice on this topic. It's really not about you giving him permission it's about you having boundaries for what you do and don't want in your life. The fact that you have children is another reason to stay committed to what you feel comfortable with in your life. I personally think that it's not smart to have illegal drugs in your home or car or to allow someone who is using illegal drugs to be around your children. I always tend to play the "what if" game. What if someone got wind of this info (another parent, a teacher, a friend of yours or your children) and what if they decided to call the police or CPS? You don't use illegal drugs so why allow them into your home? I also know from experience that occasional use can quickly turn to regular use and opinions on what constitutes occasional vs. regular use tend to vary. Just my opinion :-)
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by DragynLady 
In the end, I don't want this to be the straw the broke my relationship.
My xabf, after a long period of healthy recovery, was starting to rationalize his use again..."I don't see what's wrong with having a couple of drinks, there's nothing wrong with it, I can handle it, I miss my bar buddies", etc.
His first love, marijuana, had already crept back in. He was using, thinking he was hiding it from me, but it was obvious. I know that he went back to it thinking he could smoke in moderation, but that rationalization didn't work either.
I got out when I finally accepted that he loved his addictions more than he loved me and nothing was going to change that. I still love him tons, always will, but I just couldn't recycle the pain anymore.
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