Hostages?
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
it means they take us down with all of the As issues, all of his dysfunctions, all of his hate, and well, brain washes you on what the A believes...you become so in twined into his STUFF(his disease), YOU GET LOST!! its a circle all the time, a pattern of the process disease...
my A left me, thank god....clean cut and dry but not with out telling me in a few letters and emails, that he is always right...thank god for here and my AL ANON program...
"people that call you SELFISH when they CANT manipulate you into getting what they want"
I am sure others can tell you more....
my A left me, thank god....clean cut and dry but not with out telling me in a few letters and emails, that he is always right...thank god for here and my AL ANON program...
"people that call you SELFISH when they CANT manipulate you into getting what they want"
I am sure others can tell you more....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
There is also a saying codependents don’t have relationships they take hostages…
Held hostage, how can one be held hostage if they are willing participants in the madness? I mean really after you know and stick around … the addict is to easy a distraction to focus on so one doesn’t have to look within and at their own behavior … and all the while playing the victim complaining the addict won’t take responsibility for theirs.
How can one be held hostage if they always had the choice to leave?
I can’t give you an AA/NA definition, but in my opinion. That saying that addicts take hostages I find may keep far to many sick and stuck in the mentality of blaming it all on the addict … when they obviously were there. So many times so all in, helping, fixing, rescuing, manipulating...
As is said which makes more sense, the sick attract the sick…that one I know you get
Sick people can’t have healthy relationships, period, with anyone. Most who have a good strong recovery no matter the side find they have more stable, healthy relationships with those in their lives and much better boundaries.
Held hostage, how can one be held hostage if they are willing participants in the madness? I mean really after you know and stick around … the addict is to easy a distraction to focus on so one doesn’t have to look within and at their own behavior … and all the while playing the victim complaining the addict won’t take responsibility for theirs.
How can one be held hostage if they always had the choice to leave?
I can’t give you an AA/NA definition, but in my opinion. That saying that addicts take hostages I find may keep far to many sick and stuck in the mentality of blaming it all on the addict … when they obviously were there. So many times so all in, helping, fixing, rescuing, manipulating...
As is said which makes more sense, the sick attract the sick…that one I know you get
Sick people can’t have healthy relationships, period, with anyone. Most who have a good strong recovery no matter the side find they have more stable, healthy relationships with those in their lives and much better boundaries.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
There is something called the Stockholm Syndrome that defines the extreme end of dysfunctional people like alcoholics taking hostages.
The syndrome got named after a bank robbery in Stockholm Sweden in which the robbers took hostages in the bank. They were cruel and abusive, but they were also the only source of food and other necessities. The hostages began to bond with their captors, to live within the construct of being prisoners as if that was normal. The terrible abuse could be curtailed if they did what their captors wanted them to do, and eventually, they became oriented toward pleasing their captors.
When the hostages were finally rescued, some of them took the side of the robbers, and a few actually testified in the trial FOR their captors.
From my experience as the wife of an emotionally abusive alcoholic for 20 years, I gradually lost the ability to think for myself. The chaos and abuse was bad, with intermittent periods of happiness together, and I learned to live within my AH's framework of what was acceptable because there was less abuse that way. It escalated with him having cross addictions and going off the deep end with abuse, and I left suddenly when he charged $1200 on my credit card for on-line porn women.
That shook me up so much that I woke up to what I had been tolerating and left him and divorced him. But it has taken me much time alone to sort out who I am and what I believe and what I want. For a long time, I would unwittingly take HIS position when faced with an issue and think about how my decision would affect HIM more than how it would affect ME. You can be an emotional hostage even if you are not confined physically.
ShootingStar1
The syndrome got named after a bank robbery in Stockholm Sweden in which the robbers took hostages in the bank. They were cruel and abusive, but they were also the only source of food and other necessities. The hostages began to bond with their captors, to live within the construct of being prisoners as if that was normal. The terrible abuse could be curtailed if they did what their captors wanted them to do, and eventually, they became oriented toward pleasing their captors.
When the hostages were finally rescued, some of them took the side of the robbers, and a few actually testified in the trial FOR their captors.
From my experience as the wife of an emotionally abusive alcoholic for 20 years, I gradually lost the ability to think for myself. The chaos and abuse was bad, with intermittent periods of happiness together, and I learned to live within my AH's framework of what was acceptable because there was less abuse that way. It escalated with him having cross addictions and going off the deep end with abuse, and I left suddenly when he charged $1200 on my credit card for on-line porn women.
That shook me up so much that I woke up to what I had been tolerating and left him and divorced him. But it has taken me much time alone to sort out who I am and what I believe and what I want. For a long time, I would unwittingly take HIS position when faced with an issue and think about how my decision would affect HIM more than how it would affect ME. You can be an emotional hostage even if you are not confined physically.
ShootingStar1
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I see it as meaning "emotional hostages". They know how to keep us from detaching through threats or tears or manipulation of any kind. And I agree, it can work both ways, many codependents know the "emotional hostage game" too.
The thing is, no matter which side you are on, in time it gets old. You can only hear so many "I'm sorry's" or "I can't live without you's" or "you owe me's" before you turn down the sound.
The thing with all this is that we are only hostages as long as we allow it. Turns out we hold the key to our own happiness and can unlock that door any time we are ready.
Hugs
The thing is, no matter which side you are on, in time it gets old. You can only hear so many "I'm sorry's" or "I can't live without you's" or "you owe me's" before you turn down the sound.
The thing with all this is that we are only hostages as long as we allow it. Turns out we hold the key to our own happiness and can unlock that door any time we are ready.
Hugs
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
When we get involved with a sick person, we unwittingly get entangled with their "stuff". And as much as we try to help that person with their stuff, in the end, it doesn't matter whether you help them or not because people are going to do whatever it is they're going to do.
So the real question is what happens when you disengage from that sort of chaos.
Simple: you save your own sanity.
As Ann alluded to, we're only held hostage by a sick person so long as we allow them to hold us hostage. And I think it's fear that keeps us in such a position; the fear that if we disengage, things will take a turn for the worst. Well, if things do take a turn for the worst, it's not because of anything we do or didn't do.
Anyways, $0.02...
So the real question is what happens when you disengage from that sort of chaos.
Simple: you save your own sanity.
As Ann alluded to, we're only held hostage by a sick person so long as we allow them to hold us hostage. And I think it's fear that keeps us in such a position; the fear that if we disengage, things will take a turn for the worst. Well, if things do take a turn for the worst, it's not because of anything we do or didn't do.
Anyways, $0.02...
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Had never heard that before. My uneducated guess: A relationship is about love, trust, respect, give and take, happiness. A hostage situation is about one person having power over another, lack of all the things that make a relationship work. If you are a hostage then you are being forced, or think you are being forced to stay and participate in a dysfunctional situation.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
When a person believes with all of their being that they CAN'T leave......or else (insert fear)....it is a hostage situation. It's the belief that makes them a hostage. The belief can be factual (they'll be hurt or killed or someone else will be hurt or die). There is a psychological conditioning called learned helplessness. When an animal (or human) is continually exposed to a situation which they do not feel they can escape from, they will eventually stop making any effort to get out of the situation even when opportunity presents itself.
The hostage taking is a psychological conditioning using fear. It's can be done in a personal relationship (such as an abusive relationship, addiction) or on a large scale to control a large population--think North Korea. It is powerful.
When someone believes that they do not have a choice.....that there are no viable options for them......a hostage situation exists. I am willing to bet that there were several opportunities for the three women held hostage in Cleveland for ten years to escape....but fear kept them from doing so. Fear. Very powerful tool of control.
Speaking for myself, my own fear is what kept me in the relationship with my XAH. I allowed him to see my Achilles heal.......he threatened to kill himself. He read my fear. I didn't think I could survive on my own. I put up with a whole lot of garbage before the pain of staying was greater than my fear of leaving him. That scale has to tip in order for a hostage to take the risks to leave or escape.
Yes. I do believe that the saying "addicts don't have relationships...they take hostages" is accurate. I also think that a codependent mirrors that behavior. They can make the addict think that they can't survive without them. It's a very ugly two way street. And crippling for both parties. Nothing changes until something changes.
gentle hugs
ke
The hostage taking is a psychological conditioning using fear. It's can be done in a personal relationship (such as an abusive relationship, addiction) or on a large scale to control a large population--think North Korea. It is powerful.
When someone believes that they do not have a choice.....that there are no viable options for them......a hostage situation exists. I am willing to bet that there were several opportunities for the three women held hostage in Cleveland for ten years to escape....but fear kept them from doing so. Fear. Very powerful tool of control.
Speaking for myself, my own fear is what kept me in the relationship with my XAH. I allowed him to see my Achilles heal.......he threatened to kill himself. He read my fear. I didn't think I could survive on my own. I put up with a whole lot of garbage before the pain of staying was greater than my fear of leaving him. That scale has to tip in order for a hostage to take the risks to leave or escape.
Yes. I do believe that the saying "addicts don't have relationships...they take hostages" is accurate. I also think that a codependent mirrors that behavior. They can make the addict think that they can't survive without them. It's a very ugly two way street. And crippling for both parties. Nothing changes until something changes.
gentle hugs
ke
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I think Kindeyes nailed it, fear was my hostage taker, I lived in fear all day every day for years and years until fear became my "normal" way to live. It almost killed me.
When I overcame fear, I was free and hostage no more. For me, courage was simply the absence of fear and once I reached that good place, nothing could stop me from moving forward.
Faith was my antidote to fear, living in faith keeps me balance and at peace today.
Hugs
When I overcame fear, I was free and hostage no more. For me, courage was simply the absence of fear and once I reached that good place, nothing could stop me from moving forward.
Faith was my antidote to fear, living in faith keeps me balance and at peace today.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 55
Re: being taken hostage by alc or addict thread-now free
hi, just enjoyed reading this thread which i discovered now in 2014, but its from 2013 and wish to share my experience.
Getting involved with an addict girlfriend who's disease of addiction, is probably the most cunning baffling disease on the planet, I as a co-dependent person had never been exposed to it.
So i accept the fact that I had 0 experience with addicts and active alcoholism, never dated one, and this girl was not a fall down 24/7 stoner or drunk, i had no idea what i was up against.
Myself as a codependent i could not take an addict hostage, it would be impossible. Another straight/sober co-dependent and I could take each other hostage maybe so, or family member, but the disease of addiciton trumps all in terms of "who's running the show" .
IF I COULD HAVE TAKEN my addict hostage, would i? ABSOLUTELY! IF that prevent her from cheating I WOULD TOTALLY BE ON BOARD FOR TAKING HER HOSTAGE...? COULD I HAVE? NO WAY....NO WAY on earth, because i am powerless over others,,,,,and again disease of addictions trumps ALL.
I think its probably a year since my first post here, or since i started digging around this wonderful site. I am doing %200 better. My Addict gf (AGF), is not she's doing the same thing, manipulating all the people in her life, and drugging and drinking when she wants and keeps contact with many men.
the only way I broke free was from education, educating myself on the disease of addiction, FOR ME, detach with love was not an option, detach with love kept me as an enabler. Alanon did not help. ACA helped alot, and coda has become my primary problem, but a very special therapist 5 times a week from January 2014 until now, was the key.
Contrary to all the bullies i encountered in Alanon, SLAA, most of whom were alcoholics themselves, in recovery, wanting to judge me, blame me, and so forth, I NEEDED TO LEARN about addiction. I learned from recovering addicts in ACA, more than from any person in alanon, or slaa, or naranon.
The girl had me convinced she did not have a problem with occassional glass of wine, and i never even realized the lethal combo this could be with her "doctor prescribed zanax"..., that i was the problem. eventually i met people who told me "nobody "used to be a heroin addict, if u girl is not in recovery she is an addict"...
Contrary to what i read in a thread. I did not have a choice when a beautiful woman showed up at my house, that i knew from childhood, looking sober, and acting quite sober and speaking quite clearly, and worked me over for 3 weeks before we became intimate.
All the NO CONTACT suggestions here and in SLAA didnt work "FOR ME". My learning what i needed to learn about her disease, and how they mis-treat and emotionally abuse everybody close to them, I was able to put boundaries, which resulted in ME taking control of my life. NOT FORCING MYSELF to do no contact because someone who never met me "told me to do no contact".
I hardly have any contact, she calls she texts, but i now know its not a good idead for me to enagage in a discussion with her, because she's likely to spin any conversation into a FIGHT and a BLAME GAME, of why we are not "a couple"now, and totally neglect the huge detail that she is legally married and a lifelong narcotics addict with 0 recovery!!!
FOR ME, lessons 1 and 2,
1- Education on addiction
2- Avoid people who any inkling or leftover partners in their life, this girl lied for a good 8 months about the marriage, but supposedly live with the platonic father of their child.
Im doing coda meetings around 4 times a week and therapy 5 times a week, as long as my insurance covers it. I could not begin to work on boundaries and distancing from this woman without getting educated in HER DISEASE.
I had people in meetings inappropriately tell me "im addicted to addicts" = not true. if that was true everybody in my life would be an addict and i wouldnt hold a job for 32 years.
I've had people in meetings inappropriately tell me, "I CHOSE HER" no i didnt, not true. She chose me %100 and cunningly convinced me she was real deal and available.
I've had people in meetings inappropriately say to me "whats ur motive"? My motive? Find a love of my life and go off into the sunset.....THATS NOT SUCH A BAD MOTIVE, and pretty darn normal, if u ask me.
As a guy, by getting a male therapist, I was able to avoid the alcoholic men in Alanon and CODA, who like to come in and dictate their AA protocol on me. My therapist has been treating, Alcoholics, addicts and codependents for 40 years and he doesn't judge me the way these clowns i ran into in meetings do.
Its another form of hostage taking and emotional abuse, AA does not support taking someone else inventory, but when the AA's and NA's come to alanon and CODA, its like a wolf in a chicken farm, its fair game for them and new catch to manipulate. Their AA sponsor would never allow it but who's watching when they come to CODA or ALANON or SLAA to stalk new hostages.
In my humble opinion and short experience, women have a better support in alanon and CODA, these rooms are mostly women, and most of the women are not AA backgrounds. FOR ME that is the primary biggest problem. Cross pollination, AA and NA men coming into CODA, and ALANON and not keeping it about themselves and finding people like me who didnt know better.
Im grateful for the sober recovery community, thanks for listening.
Getting involved with an addict girlfriend who's disease of addiction, is probably the most cunning baffling disease on the planet, I as a co-dependent person had never been exposed to it.
So i accept the fact that I had 0 experience with addicts and active alcoholism, never dated one, and this girl was not a fall down 24/7 stoner or drunk, i had no idea what i was up against.
Myself as a codependent i could not take an addict hostage, it would be impossible. Another straight/sober co-dependent and I could take each other hostage maybe so, or family member, but the disease of addiciton trumps all in terms of "who's running the show" .
IF I COULD HAVE TAKEN my addict hostage, would i? ABSOLUTELY! IF that prevent her from cheating I WOULD TOTALLY BE ON BOARD FOR TAKING HER HOSTAGE...? COULD I HAVE? NO WAY....NO WAY on earth, because i am powerless over others,,,,,and again disease of addictions trumps ALL.
I think its probably a year since my first post here, or since i started digging around this wonderful site. I am doing %200 better. My Addict gf (AGF), is not she's doing the same thing, manipulating all the people in her life, and drugging and drinking when she wants and keeps contact with many men.
the only way I broke free was from education, educating myself on the disease of addiction, FOR ME, detach with love was not an option, detach with love kept me as an enabler. Alanon did not help. ACA helped alot, and coda has become my primary problem, but a very special therapist 5 times a week from January 2014 until now, was the key.
Contrary to all the bullies i encountered in Alanon, SLAA, most of whom were alcoholics themselves, in recovery, wanting to judge me, blame me, and so forth, I NEEDED TO LEARN about addiction. I learned from recovering addicts in ACA, more than from any person in alanon, or slaa, or naranon.
The girl had me convinced she did not have a problem with occassional glass of wine, and i never even realized the lethal combo this could be with her "doctor prescribed zanax"..., that i was the problem. eventually i met people who told me "nobody "used to be a heroin addict, if u girl is not in recovery she is an addict"...
Contrary to what i read in a thread. I did not have a choice when a beautiful woman showed up at my house, that i knew from childhood, looking sober, and acting quite sober and speaking quite clearly, and worked me over for 3 weeks before we became intimate.
All the NO CONTACT suggestions here and in SLAA didnt work "FOR ME". My learning what i needed to learn about her disease, and how they mis-treat and emotionally abuse everybody close to them, I was able to put boundaries, which resulted in ME taking control of my life. NOT FORCING MYSELF to do no contact because someone who never met me "told me to do no contact".
I hardly have any contact, she calls she texts, but i now know its not a good idead for me to enagage in a discussion with her, because she's likely to spin any conversation into a FIGHT and a BLAME GAME, of why we are not "a couple"now, and totally neglect the huge detail that she is legally married and a lifelong narcotics addict with 0 recovery!!!
FOR ME, lessons 1 and 2,
1- Education on addiction
2- Avoid people who any inkling or leftover partners in their life, this girl lied for a good 8 months about the marriage, but supposedly live with the platonic father of their child.
Im doing coda meetings around 4 times a week and therapy 5 times a week, as long as my insurance covers it. I could not begin to work on boundaries and distancing from this woman without getting educated in HER DISEASE.
I had people in meetings inappropriately tell me "im addicted to addicts" = not true. if that was true everybody in my life would be an addict and i wouldnt hold a job for 32 years.
I've had people in meetings inappropriately tell me, "I CHOSE HER" no i didnt, not true. She chose me %100 and cunningly convinced me she was real deal and available.
I've had people in meetings inappropriately say to me "whats ur motive"? My motive? Find a love of my life and go off into the sunset.....THATS NOT SUCH A BAD MOTIVE, and pretty darn normal, if u ask me.
As a guy, by getting a male therapist, I was able to avoid the alcoholic men in Alanon and CODA, who like to come in and dictate their AA protocol on me. My therapist has been treating, Alcoholics, addicts and codependents for 40 years and he doesn't judge me the way these clowns i ran into in meetings do.
Its another form of hostage taking and emotional abuse, AA does not support taking someone else inventory, but when the AA's and NA's come to alanon and CODA, its like a wolf in a chicken farm, its fair game for them and new catch to manipulate. Their AA sponsor would never allow it but who's watching when they come to CODA or ALANON or SLAA to stalk new hostages.
In my humble opinion and short experience, women have a better support in alanon and CODA, these rooms are mostly women, and most of the women are not AA backgrounds. FOR ME that is the primary biggest problem. Cross pollination, AA and NA men coming into CODA, and ALANON and not keeping it about themselves and finding people like me who didnt know better.
Im grateful for the sober recovery community, thanks for listening.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Wantfreedom, I am glad you found a path that works for you and wish you all the best following that path to better tomorrows.
That said, I take exception to your comments about bullying drunks in Al-anon, and CoDA, that may be the case in a few meetings you went to but it has never been the case in my almost 15 years in the rooms. I found only kind, compassionate people who understood how I felt because they had been where I was. Some were recovering from substance abuse as well, "double winners" is what we call them here and we have many right here at SR. But the key word is "recovering" and never once did I see anyone drunk or high. If anyone vocalizes in an unpleasant way at any meeting, the group leader/chair of that meeting would be there to step in and calm the waters, but it never happened at any meetings I ever attended.
I am glad CoDA is helping you, as it helped me, it was my home group for many years before we moved.
Good luck on your path of recovery.
Hugs
That said, I take exception to your comments about bullying drunks in Al-anon, and CoDA, that may be the case in a few meetings you went to but it has never been the case in my almost 15 years in the rooms. I found only kind, compassionate people who understood how I felt because they had been where I was. Some were recovering from substance abuse as well, "double winners" is what we call them here and we have many right here at SR. But the key word is "recovering" and never once did I see anyone drunk or high. If anyone vocalizes in an unpleasant way at any meeting, the group leader/chair of that meeting would be there to step in and calm the waters, but it never happened at any meetings I ever attended.
I am glad CoDA is helping you, as it helped me, it was my home group for many years before we moved.
Good luck on your path of recovery.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
I also have to -- based on my own experience -- disagree that all blame can be placed on the addict. In my case, my partner started using WAY after we got together. To the best of my knowledge, we were together for at least 10 years before the first time he used. And I had no idea.
Yet I take responsibility for not being more perceptive. I take responsibility for seeing what I wanted to see and being in denial about reality. The dysfunctions were there all along. The way we interacted, the way we both coped with things, the red flags...there all along.
Also, I don't think the idea of finding a love and riding off into the sunset is as normal as you portray it. It sounds like the immature and unrealistic soulmate -- I need someone to complete me -- thing that does so many people in on the Friends and Family board.
"Contrary to what i read in a thread. I did not have a choice when a beautiful woman showed up at my house, that i knew from childhood, looking sober, and acting quite sober and speaking quite clearly, and worked me over for 3 weeks before we became intimate."
If you dropped all your defenses for this woman after 3 weeks and got taken advantage of, that's on you. You can channel your anger toward others who tell you things you don't want to hear all you want (another co-dependent behavior that mirrors what addicts do), but you chose to open the door to her and trust her -- after 3 weeks, which is a minimal amount of time. The lesson about healthy boundaries is there for you and I do hope you have learned from the experience.
Yet I take responsibility for not being more perceptive. I take responsibility for seeing what I wanted to see and being in denial about reality. The dysfunctions were there all along. The way we interacted, the way we both coped with things, the red flags...there all along.
Also, I don't think the idea of finding a love and riding off into the sunset is as normal as you portray it. It sounds like the immature and unrealistic soulmate -- I need someone to complete me -- thing that does so many people in on the Friends and Family board.
"Contrary to what i read in a thread. I did not have a choice when a beautiful woman showed up at my house, that i knew from childhood, looking sober, and acting quite sober and speaking quite clearly, and worked me over for 3 weeks before we became intimate."
If you dropped all your defenses for this woman after 3 weeks and got taken advantage of, that's on you. You can channel your anger toward others who tell you things you don't want to hear all you want (another co-dependent behavior that mirrors what addicts do), but you chose to open the door to her and trust her -- after 3 weeks, which is a minimal amount of time. The lesson about healthy boundaries is there for you and I do hope you have learned from the experience.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I feel I was a mental hostage for many years.
Every time I got the strength to see through all the manipulation I was mentally abused so that my self esteem was nothing. I did not think I was strong enough. I thought the damage to my children would be more than if I stayed. With the help of counseling and Celebrate Recovery I was able to see that I am enough. That I deserve more and am strong enough to be the person I know I am inside, which includes being a good mother to my children.
I too had on the infatuation goggles when I met my XAH. Ha...that definitely wore off.
Every time I got the strength to see through all the manipulation I was mentally abused so that my self esteem was nothing. I did not think I was strong enough. I thought the damage to my children would be more than if I stayed. With the help of counseling and Celebrate Recovery I was able to see that I am enough. That I deserve more and am strong enough to be the person I know I am inside, which includes being a good mother to my children.
I too had on the infatuation goggles when I met my XAH. Ha...that definitely wore off.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
I don't know if I get it but there are some situations where I think I am getting taken hostage, even if it's only temporary.
One of my friends who is a very generous, adventurous and kind person but also a pothead sometimes insists that her kid rides in my car when we are both driving to the same close by destination, no big deal i guess but by the time I try to say no (or sometimes do say NO) her kid is super excited to ride with us so my kid is super excited too and saying NO means a huge crisis, lots of screaming and tears, sometimes some hitting, kicking. With 2 kids in the car it is a lot harder for me to pick up milk/pizza/snacks/stop to go pee especially that her kid doesn't listen and has issues.Most parents would discreetly ask the other parent before getting their kid all excited telling them they could ride in their friends car but not her. She doesn't get why it bothers me. A different time she showed up at my place after I told her I wanted to take my daughter to the playground before it got dark.She brought ice cream! We had just gotten out the door and she insisted we needed to go back in to eat the ice cream. She was really pissed off but I told her no, told her I still wanted to take my girl to the playground for an hour.
My ex would do stuff like inviting us let say for a barbecue and a swim (he has a pool) and my daughter would be all excited and then he would realize he forgot milk and ask me to stop to get some (and please pick up some bread, yogurt and orange juice too) and then he'd realize he forgot coals and I would have to get that somewhere else. I know that these are small errands but with a small child it's not always easy and it's especially frustrating when I don't even have food at home and need to go grocery shopping and I am running errands FOR HIM! It's hard to back up when you told your kid she is going swimming...Way before that, before we had a kid and when ex wasn't using he told me he wanted to go to Australia with me to prevent me from going to visit a friend while she was living there, years later he told me he never meant to go, he was just afraid to lose me.
Another friend who is an alcoholic who was sober for several years went on a vacation with me,my kid and her kid.(Surprise she wasn't sober anymore!!!). There would be these situations where we would be walking and she would suddenly say she had to run in to the convenience store to get some matches or something (I supposed she went to get booze and drank it), it was so unexpected there was not time to say no and I would be left with the 2 kids on the sidewalk feeling I had no choice to wait for her for 5-10 minutes. Those minutes felt so long with a 4 and a 7 year old across the street from the beach, and I knew if I left with the kids she would just take off and leave me with both kids.
After writing all of these I feel like a total sucker.
One of my friends who is a very generous, adventurous and kind person but also a pothead sometimes insists that her kid rides in my car when we are both driving to the same close by destination, no big deal i guess but by the time I try to say no (or sometimes do say NO) her kid is super excited to ride with us so my kid is super excited too and saying NO means a huge crisis, lots of screaming and tears, sometimes some hitting, kicking. With 2 kids in the car it is a lot harder for me to pick up milk/pizza/snacks/stop to go pee especially that her kid doesn't listen and has issues.Most parents would discreetly ask the other parent before getting their kid all excited telling them they could ride in their friends car but not her. She doesn't get why it bothers me. A different time she showed up at my place after I told her I wanted to take my daughter to the playground before it got dark.She brought ice cream! We had just gotten out the door and she insisted we needed to go back in to eat the ice cream. She was really pissed off but I told her no, told her I still wanted to take my girl to the playground for an hour.
My ex would do stuff like inviting us let say for a barbecue and a swim (he has a pool) and my daughter would be all excited and then he would realize he forgot milk and ask me to stop to get some (and please pick up some bread, yogurt and orange juice too) and then he'd realize he forgot coals and I would have to get that somewhere else. I know that these are small errands but with a small child it's not always easy and it's especially frustrating when I don't even have food at home and need to go grocery shopping and I am running errands FOR HIM! It's hard to back up when you told your kid she is going swimming...Way before that, before we had a kid and when ex wasn't using he told me he wanted to go to Australia with me to prevent me from going to visit a friend while she was living there, years later he told me he never meant to go, he was just afraid to lose me.
Another friend who is an alcoholic who was sober for several years went on a vacation with me,my kid and her kid.(Surprise she wasn't sober anymore!!!). There would be these situations where we would be walking and she would suddenly say she had to run in to the convenience store to get some matches or something (I supposed she went to get booze and drank it), it was so unexpected there was not time to say no and I would be left with the 2 kids on the sidewalk feeling I had no choice to wait for her for 5-10 minutes. Those minutes felt so long with a 4 and a 7 year old across the street from the beach, and I knew if I left with the kids she would just take off and leave me with both kids.
After writing all of these I feel like a total sucker.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I agree, hindsight is 20/20 but I too didn't see half of what was happening around me...in plain daylight...with red flags all over it.
Guilt was the hostage card my son would play. Guilt and also the "hope" card, suggesting he was about to look for a rehab or start going to meetings again...I soon realized that his actions spoke much more loudly than his words.
Guilt was the hostage card my son would play. Guilt and also the "hope" card, suggesting he was about to look for a rehab or start going to meetings again...I soon realized that his actions spoke much more loudly than his words.
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