nancylee

Pravchaw,
I have a 22 year old son who smokes a lot of pot. He has dropped out of college 4 times so far. One would think I would not pay for the next attempt. He is a good kid, holds a job, just likes pot too much. I never did, and really still don't, take this as seriously as I probably should, as I know there are so many worse drugs, including alcohol for my family, with the addictions in our genetics. But no matter what, I would never, ever stop talking to my son.

Yes, there are ex-husbands, and ex-friends, and even ex-brothers and sisters, but I agree with what you said - there are, in my belief system, no such thing as ex-sons or ex-daughters. I would stand by my kids no matter what. Really. Having said that, I would not support them financially anymore, or enable them, but would talk, talk, talk. About everything. Including their addiction. I would never shut up. I would call them, text them, email them articles, information, suggestions, help. Yes, I am a big pain in the a**, but my kids know that, and know I would never abandon them. I would be the mom pulling them out of a crack house for the 20th time, God forbid they ever did anything like that.

You sound like me. Keep talking to your son, don't support him, but he is so young, don't cut him off!! He needs your love and support. Your wisdom. He may act like he doesn't, but he does. Love him, be there for him, nudge him to be wise.

Thinking of you,
nancy

Chino

It's also how parents end up having children taken away.

story74

Yes, I think a mother (or parent) dealing with a child addict is completely different. I have no idea how I would react if my son was an addict, but the thought has crossed my mind. I have often thought that I cannot go through this pain again and will completely cut him off, because there is a chance. If he did to his family what his father did to us, I would support his wife and child/ren. He would know my stance/boundries. That being said, I would probably want the touch ins, even if to just hear his voice and know he is a still alive. To have that, then I totally agree with Impurrfect...the conversation should steer clear from the elephant in the room. But, honestly, who knows. I hope I never have to know.

Just a little story of how my mother in law handled it: my xah had a mother who was in denial. She dismissed me after the divorce and wanted nothing to do with the truth. She told me once that she didn't want to do anything to **** him off just in case he ever needed her. I understood this and respected that...all to an extent. He abandoned his family financially and emotionally. If it wasn't for my parents support I would have been in a shelter. Her looking a blind eye to this made me angry. She also told me that she knew that she could only get texts from him anymore, and that was ok with her because she was hearing from him. So sad. She is a very sweet woman. In fact, I feel (which was somewhat of the problem) she was too nice. His father was completely opposite on the spectrum. He told him that he either does the right thing, or he will have nothing to do with him. So, his father has nothing to do with him, and I can assume she gets random texts from him. She may even talk to him now and then...I have no idea. All I know is that I have no idea where he ism but he is still using.

IMHO, his mother was in denial and enabling him. Not saying a word about his horrible behavior, accepting his word that he wasn't on drugs, and allowing his girlfriend with a mile long police record into her home. This girlfriend is a sociopath and could careless about my son. All because she wanted him to know that she was always there for him. She ended up loosing my son and I. I will not be around anyone who looks the other way and pretends that he is fine. So, we haven't seen her or talked to her in over a year. I was and am angry with her. I felt betrayed, lied to and unsupported. Also, dismissing me as she did made me feel like nothing. BUT, she is also a woman (major codie) who put up with an abusive alcoholic for 18 years while raising 3 kids. I feel because she allowed her son to grow up around such a dysfunctional father, really played a role in her sons addiction. It is like she enabled and made excuses (looked the other way), didn't talk about it for her husband and now she is doing the same for her son. Where is that going to get you? I need to break this cycle. Or at least try to.

I don't know. It is not for me to judge her. She loves her son and is doing what she thinks is best. I think I would be a little tougher...BUT you never know what is like until you live it. SO many people judge me for my actions dealing with an addict. I just have to do what is best for my health and my sons health. I really think Impurrfect's post was perfectly said. You have to make it work for you so that you can get healthy.

It is complicated and painful. I send you many blessings. Each story is the same, but yet so different.

pravchaw

Story that was great post. I feel your pain. Cannot agree with you more. I am trying to walk the bright line between not enabling but maintaining communication and getting him into treatment. Not sure if it is possible. He is still relatively young (21) and I am financially secure.

I have read that sociopathy is a side effect of drug addiction. At one point you must have seen something to have married him. Did he turn into a psychopath later, as a result of drug use.?

LoveMeNow

Pravchaw, how do you honestly feel about your son stopping by to play videos games? How do you feel after he leaves?

I needed to start really checking my motives. I needed to learn to stop controlling and trying to force an outcome.

LoveMeNow

Because an active addict only cares about their drug use at any cost, many liken their behavior to sociopathic. But no, drug addiction can not cause it.

pravchaw

My motives are transparent to him. He is in a deep pit still digging. I am standing at the top of the pit yelling at him to stop digging and grab on to the lifeline hanging by just over his head. He is oblivious and the drug has hijacked his mind.

I can certainly forbid him to come to the house, are you advocating that? Is that the right thing to do for a 21 yo with the maturity of a 14 yo.

The thing is if I had a spouse like what you have, I would have done exactly as you have done. Now can you do that to your son or daughter? If yes, you are a stronger person than me.

story74

I don't think there is an easy answer. Just always ask yourself if you are healthy. He won't compromise for anything, but you shouldn't always be giving.

Well, his girlfriend seems to be a sociopath. She continues to show behavior where she doesn't care about the hurt and destruction. She just cares about the prize (him). I have had so minor texting interactions with her. This is the woman he had a 6 month affair with. While he took this woman on a vacation, I was entertaining his mother with no money in the bank because he never deposited money like he said he would...oh, and I was taking care of our 2 year old. Anyways, she is older than him and is very bad tempered/ controlling. She knows that he has a son. They are still "happily" together. What kind of woman could be with a man knowing he isn't paying child support, seeing his son and had abandoned his family? A sociopath. Although, I am not a professional! lol!

Him? A sociopath? I don't know. He abandoned us and refused to have any contact with me. I am not sure where he is mentally. I feel he is ashamed, angry, depressed and hiding from the truth through drugs. His family loves to pretend that the elephant isn't there. I met him when I was 21. He was a great guy. We would have so much fun together, and he got me. The craziest thing, and I think about this often, I saw the way he was with kids and thought he would be a wonderful father. Interestingly enough, he didn't know how to be a father. He knew how to make them laugh...that is what I saw. He started drinking and smoking weed when he was around 22. They say addiction is progressive....well, by the age of 34 he was using cocaine and his family was destroyed. I also never knew why he was so angry with me after I had a baby, but I realized he was jealous, but had no communication skills to tell me this. He hid. He always hid from his emotions. When I would ask him about his alcoholic father, he couldn't remember. He blocked it out. He just never dealt with his emotions. So, a sociopath...I don't think so. He hasn't showed too much remorse, but I have seen some tears, facial expressions and very few I'm sorry's. I believe he knows what he has done and is in so much pain. Her, I believe she just wants a prize.

Just keep thinking about what you want and how you can have him in your life. In a way you can see that my x's mother enables him and is in denial, and he still uses. His father (and sister) cut him off, and he still uses. NOTHING you do will make him stop. Sending many blessings.

OneNightAWeek

I have had a couple of appointments with a doctor who specializes in addiction medicine, and he told me to keep talking to my husband, and let him feel comfortable talking to me about his use of drugs, and why he feels he needs them. He said to be positive about his getting help, but not to pound him with it because then it becomes something he doesn’t want to hear, or deal with. People who use drugs have trouble dealing with emotional things is what he said.

I was bad in the beginning about focusing too much on how he needed to get help, and I think I must have sounded like a recording over and over. Ive had to make some decisions for myself that he also hasn’t liked very much; I have been working part time since we got married, but Im switching back to full time because it makes me feel more secure knowing I will have a larger income on my own right now, plus insurance and other benefits if he should somehow lose his job because of these drugs, or in case I have to leave him. Things have been better since I have calmed down, but I am like you in that I have been reading and looking at a lot of different ways to handle addiction, and Im not accepting anything blindly. On this forum it helps me when people share their own experiences, but Ive noticed some people never talk about themselves at all, or who brings them here; husband, wife, child, why they made the choices they did, and those are not very helpful to me because what are their views based on? Situations are not all alike is what Im seeing, and there seems to be levels of addiction that people pass through. I understand why some people leave, or go no contact, but I am not anywhere near there yet and I hope people can respect that.

With my husband I have been trying to keep things as normal to our lives as possible, and now most of my anger has passed so that helps. I realize now and I hate to say it like this, but he is a little mentally off when he is using, even when he is between uses. Ive read it affects the way people process information, rationalize, and make decisions. That is why I get puzzled when some people say to just accept a person’s choice to use drugs, its like how do you do that when you know they are not thinking rationally? And if addiction affects the brain, then its like other problems that affect the brain, so shouldn’t it be treated like those things? Shouldn’t we treat the person like we would those people and offer support, encouragement and all that? Im still looking for answers too, and will check out that book you mentioned. Its hard dealing with a husband, but I know it must be much worse dealing with your child. My husband and I are expecting our first child, and Im in shock all of this is happening to him now because I never would have thought anything like this would happen.

wiscsober

Nothing to add....thank you all for the great posts...definitely saving this thread.

story74

btw, dealing with my addict, he REFUSES to admit to having a problem. I mean he disappeared for 2 months, didn't pay child support, missed his sons birthday and when he came back into our life he claimed he was working out of town. then, when I told him that I had told his son that he was sick and had a drug problem he refused to support this. So, how do you communicate with that? I was thinking that I wonder if it is easier dealing with an addict that at least admits to having a problem.

This is an interesting thread.

bluebelle

Myy grandparents have demonstrated how not to talk to an addict (my mother). They are in denial most of the time. Then, they have yelling, screaming matches with her about her behavior. She gets angry, screams and cries. My grandparents run around in circles, feeling guilty, and try to fix my mom's problems. Then, everybody acts like nothing happened. They don't talk about it. Everyone goes back into denial mode. This has continued for over 40 years. My AM is in her 60's, still using drugs, and acts like a toddler.

allforcnm

Yes your right, the book is more geared to people who are living with the active addict because they have the most opportunity to work on communication issues; its much harder to analyze patterns between you, and use the tools when there are infrequent or spontaneous visits.

Personally I think your doing well dealing with your son. I have followed your posts for months now, and I see you searching for what works best for your family. Quite the funny earlier, I don't see you as being the type to let anyone feed you party lines on how to deal with any of this.

I spent a lot of time learning when my husband was in active addiction, and then when he went into rehab I took in the concepts from them, and it was a jumble of things really tailored to us as individuals. And that is the way I think each of us should handle our situations; with our own needs in mind first and foremost. I think all of us want peace in our lives, and our loved ones healthy; whatever gets us there is what's important.

Speaking of parents; my husbands mom was very upset by his addiction, and the way he sort of went off to live this separate life. He was working and money was not really his issue. He never asked them for anything like that. But she had a hard time, and for her own reasons cut him out. It took her 8 months or so after he went into rehab, came home and was doing well for her to accept him. It was hard for him knowing how hurt she was, but he persisted to just live life well and eventually won her over His dad on the other hand was not so tough against him, but he was somewhat swayed by his wife and didn't have contact when he was using. He did come around soon after he went into rehab though. I had issues with his mom (in my own mind, not discussed with her personally) because I thought she was not being supportive enough, but SR and hearing moms here helped me understand she had her own process, and I was able to just let it go. But it was a happy day when she came back into the fold.

Ive started that book you recommended. I got slowed down a bit because Ive been reading up on ... cats.... we are thinking about adopting a pair. But I will get back to it soon. Cats and addiction reading, just don't mix. lol

pravchaw

Some great posts here, each can be a thread of its own. People who eventually detached and separated from their loved ones went through a similar phase as some of us are going through. Eventually some of us may come to the same conclusion.

Onenight, I too find advice most helpful when its related to their life experiences. Some people here dispense advise like Zeus throwing thunderbolts from mount Olympus without giving context or sharing their personal lives. They may be like brilliant physicians with lousy bedside manners. People come into this forum in a very vulnerable stage and need to be treated with compassion.

Sometimes separation is the best and only way out, as illustrated by Story in her posts above and other times we may need to engage like allforcnm. There may be mental illness underlying addiction, which may need to be treated. There is so much I don't know. I learn so much from interacting with you all. Thanks for travelling with me on this journey.

Eve13

Pravchaw, you started with good general guidelines how to talk with any.body. Corporate board room or beloved family member.

For me, in regard to my son (as you know we are on similar journeys) it seems there is a balance between talking about resources and what's available and not talking about it. He knows what is out there, he knows he should be going to his counselor and chooses not to. And there may be court consequences with this. And what I am realizing - not jus typing - that I can only control me. I can control my frustration, I can set boundaries, (what is expected and acceptable to living at home) only i can make myself sane or crazy.
So, that is the conversation with my son. Am I disappointed he chooses to waste his time vs. doing something else? Of course. But this is his life, choices or not. Other than that, we talk about the weather, gas prices, helping out the grandparents, the F***ing FAFSA form (what a PITA), school starting, him moving out. And honestly? He could say whatever he wants to say/what he thinks I want to hear. His behavior will be the indicator.

And that is today. I know the tomorrows will be different. I think addiction is a dynamic, not static state and will have to figure out and adjust accordingly.

Do you and/or your wife ever take him out to lunch?

KariSue

After 15 or so years of off and on drama with my AS, I've found myself recently not wanting to talk to him unless I have to (in front of his children, etc.). What could I possibly say that I haven't already said to him? If he doesn't know my position by now, he never will. So what is the point? I identified with Hammer's description of getting one of those bull horns. It made me laugh too.

He also knows I love him. I know he does. I hug him once in a while just because I feel like it. He kind of pulls away I think because he is ashamed of his recent drug incident.

I'm feeling like I'm tired. I'm tired of trying to get through to him. I'm tired of talking about his addiction with everyone, hearing their opinions on what I should or shouldn't do, making decisions regarding all of it, tensing if the phone rings because it might be yet another problem with him. I feel like I want to stop but then there is that pull that "He is still my son." The pull seems to be getting less lately. Yes, he is my son but I don't have to prove I love him by constantly making my life about him. I've even felt guilty that it means I don't love him if I think about my own needs. Cognitively I know that is silly but emotionally it is there.

Then I see him acting perfectly normal one moment but asking me secretly in another room away from his kids (In that week before I went to jail did you find a prescription bottle that I might have left here? I don't want to take it (yeah right). I want to give it to girlfriend who is having a back procedure (like they won't give her anything for her pain). Things like this happen and I am just realizing that he isn't ready. He says he is but sadly I doubt it. So what good does talking do? It is like I am talking but he isn't there anyway.

For now, I am trying to figure out how much I want to talk to him at all. I want to keep some kind of positive line of communication open in case he ever does want help but, then again, I think that if he does he KNOWS I care so if he wants to talk to me, he'll initiate it, come find me and convince me to listen....if he wants me to bad enough and I think he would because we are close. Other than that, right now it is just the same kind of topics I discuss with my other two and grandchildren. I don't think it is enabling or ignoring the drug problem (like that's possible!) like someone suggested. I think it is more like I really do want to know how he liked that movie or how he makes his special broccoli dish.

I don't know. It's all a jumble to me right now. I think I just went on rambling but if someone can pick something out of all of it that is useful then that is a plus. I know it helped me feel better to get it out though.

Kari

pravchaw

Hey Lmn, I did not mean to offend. I have read some of your previous posts and I know you post with honesty. I am at a different stage than you are. I don't see myself as a codependent. Look I get that I cannot persuade my son to give up his substance unless he wants to. But I can keep on reminding him that help is available if he so chooses. That is the path I have chosen., Peace.

pravchaw

Thanks Kari. That was very helpful. I am at year 3, with my sons addiction. So still learning. I will go shopping for that bull horn.

kale0tt

#2 doesn't seem right. It's not ok for them to label themselves either as alcoholic or addict. Those are degrading terms.

pravchaw

Ryder731 - your post in in poor taste. Maybe you are having a bad day. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks.