divinespark

Thanks to you all so much. To answer some questions. Over the three years we have grown to be almost best friends. I have been in love with him for over a year before we actually started dating, flirting a little more each day, but in part because we were such good friends neither of us acted on it until this most recent Valentine's Day. Actually, he is my neighbor, so I see him nearly every day (even before we started "dating"). And everyone in the neighborhood knows and likes him. He is almost always where he says he is going to be when he says he is going to be there. As far as did I know. Lets just say that it was clear that he HAD used at some point. He told me that he had "in the good ole days". When I asked him how did he stop, he always said he "just stopped." Now I see how naive I was being. When we started dating I started to become more "suspicious". When I met his XGF, who he previously dubbed his "best friend", well lets just say the years have NOT been kind to her (she looks the part). He finally confessed that he still used occasionally on weekends, and then that in fact he was a daily user. But I asked him b/c I was suspicious, but on some deeper level I was suspicious bc something just wasn't adding up (on some level I knew). That's why when I got that suspicious feeling this morning I felt the need to verify what was really going on (apparently nothing but my over active imagination). From the beginning one of the reasons that I was hesitant to get involved was because I was concerned that he might not fit in with my friends and/or that the past was not completely in the past. He lives with his father, who is 100% squeaky clean doesn't drink, drug or even smoke, and with his brother who is active on some substance. We are both scheduled to go to meetings starting on Thursday, which is only tomorrow. We'll see how it goes. I'm starting to see though that except for his Dad, me, and one other friend plus his acquaintances in the neighborhood that his social circle is not well. Many of his high school buddies have died from "liver issues" and he has now been diagnosed with Hep C (surprise surprise). He has known his former suppliers for over 30 years. Thanks for bringing me back to reality and thanks to many of you who have directed me to the blogs for articles and readings on "letting go" etc. SO HELPFUL.

peacedove

Glad you are scheduled for a meeting and reading, too. It will be up to you to decide. Mine was always where he said he was, too. I don't know this because I checked or needed to check or even thought I needed to check--he just was because either I was there, too, in the house or we were out with the other people, etc...now when he "disappeared" after a tiff about month 4 for a couple days...no, it wasn't good then. AND THAT is when i should have listened to my gut, not to him, not to his explanation and not compromised as i did with him. not like there were not other red flags before, i know, but THAT was my big, friggin red butt flag.
all i say to myself now is this: if your gut isn't right, it isn't right.
others say if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.
whatever works.
you are describing exactly what i saw but thought he was different than "them"--his old buddies/pals/HS friends who were all still around but not successful like him. UH UH. i'm sorry, IMO, it's a crew. they stick together like glue and the glue, also IMO, is addiction. he looks different than them, his success is in your face and shines bright, he handles himself differently...but he is an addict. it doesn't matter how its cut or looks or appears.
believe what you are seeing, what you feel, what you read and make your choice from there.

peacedove

i meant MINE LOOKED different, handled himself different, etc,, in my above post. sorry...i was speaking of mine and used the wrong tense there at the end.

incitingsilence

Can I ask why in the world you are paying for his medication and his medical bills? Isn’t he capable of finding a way of taking care of things himself and finding recovery himself.

And please do not supervise him taking his medication, there are things he needs to learn and the only way to insure he has the best chance is if he makes the decisions, s from then no matter the outcome.

Make sure you see him as capable, it is extremely important. And don’t worry about what he does for him. Make your priority what you are going to do for you.

divinespark

Peacedove, I know right. Like all my other suspicions were right, but this morning wasn't??? Even though I saw that it was his boss who called that one time this morning I still feel like something was up. And no he is not capable of getting medical care himself at this point. His boss does not provide it and has cut back on his hours. I'm doing it for myself because I want him to be clean, I want him to live, I want him around. I am not going to supervise his medication anymore. We are both going to a meeting AA next to Al-Anon tomorrow night. He says he prefers AA to NA b/c too many people at NA just want to talk about glory days and several are court ordered (eg not voluntary, so those who are court ordered just go out and use after). We'll see. We'll see if I can do this. I really think that the books and Al-Anon will help.

incitingsilence

The lack of insurance doesn’t leave him incapable of getting medical care especially if he wants an end to his addiction.

And while it is really nice that you want him clean, it will only be his desire to get clean that will save him.

Are you paying for his monthly visit to the doctor and for his sub prescription?

Just to point out some nifty facts that do come in handy if you pay attention to them. Addicts have no problem finding money for drugs. They are resourceful, and support their habit with no problem, some work to, some scam, steal, lie to, some just find enablers to help support it for them. They will make it work. Supporting a heroin habit is way more expensive than supporting treatment for sub. Addicts also have no issue at all finding a high. They will walk miles in the snow for the chance at someone being out to cop from. If they can find their way to a high, they can find their way into help, if they want to.

A question to ponder from there is why would they need to do anything if someone is always there to help them … supporting an addict in their efforts to get clean is one thing, doing the work for them, is so much different. Watch the line, it blurs.

And a lesson on no control, to really show you that you have none. If someone wants to get high they can, it is simple and sub doesn’t have the ability to stop that. It may possibly be able to delay ( but then I know better) but to stop, nah that ain’t happening . Also sub in all forms can be shot up. I won’t even get into all the other classes of drugs that are out there readily available that will fix ones head if they just need HIGH NOW. You will never ever be able to stop him from using, never.

As I said in my first post to you, make your priority what you will do for you, he is most capable of taking care of himself.

divinespark

Inciting,
Thank you so much. You are SO right. If he wants to use he will find a way. On the bright side, he actually offered to pay for the next Dr's visit. So the naloxone really does not create precipitated withdrawals if shot like they say it does? That is a huge disappointment. Thanks to you (and everyone's support here on SR) I am able to concentrate a bit more on my work today. I still have this pit in my stomach and trembling hands, but I'm doing a LOT better today than I was yesterday. We're both going to meetings tonight at 8pm. When we finally talked last night he did say that he is going the sub to taper route with or without me, that he would rather it be with me but that the extra hassle I gave him yesterday was NOT helpful. So I am going to try to focus on work today, Al-Anon tonight, and let him pay his way from now on. Plus if he's paying for the subs then he won't be able to afford the other stuff. I pray pray pray that he's not shooting it, but I honestly have no idea whether he is or not, and never will I guess. I'm not sure if that's something I can live with or not. We will see. Only time will tell.

incitingsilence

Don't share this with him, although everyone I know on sub, always knew how to get around all the can't and won't, don't....

The naxolone has no bearing, it is for show. It can not compete with the buprenorphine. The bup is the active ingredient, and the bup is what causes precipitated wd. I have no idea why they have it in there it isn’t like they didn’t know. Sub/bup has been abused as a drug of choice all over the world from before it was on the market here. Even here it can be ones drug of choice.

Precipitated wd is interesting. It is also a gamble. With sub already in your system you can use on top…if you get sick that would be more a to much drugs in your system type thing.

If you are clean, meaning your receptors are clean and there are no opiates/opiods on them and you shoot up suboxone then you won’t go into wd. The high is subjective and the pleasure in it is based on individual users.

If you try to shoot up and have opiates on your receptors, the sub will compete to strip the receptors, cancelling itself out in the process and well you get precipitated wd.

Remember you might not have any control over what he does, but you sure as hell have control of your life. How you wish to live, the people in your life, the unacceptable things you tolerate...

There is a lot to learn, educate yourself and make sure no matter how it all plays out that you understand this will be a learning experience.

divinespark

I fear you are right. I think you are right. It sounds like you're right. The Bluelight website says you are right. I just hope that he doesn't figure it out. Although of course his AXGF who has been on subs and methadone and dilaudid has probably told him as much by now. Of course, every drug addict in America probably knows this by now. Its just naive people like me who don't have a clue. They probably put the naloxone in there so that they could convince the naive public (like me) that it would prevent shooting. I feel like I want to move to a new country now to get away from all this. The hardest part of course is that all of my usual friends who I would talk to about boyfriend stuff. Well I don't feel like I can talk to any of them about this. I feel like I am the one who is becoming obsessed with the drug, b/c I am obsessed with getting him off of it, which apparently is something that I can't do. No one can but him. I hope he's serious. I'm getting back to work now. I've got to start focusing on my work, not on his problems. I've led that horse to the water, now I've got to get back to my own pond:-) I certainly wish I had never started this.

peacedove

More than one of us has been naive. It's ok if you haven't experienced it before. Now we have. Now we know. Doubt there is a place anyone could move to "get away" from it as much as it is a nice thought.
I noticed you stated you weren't/couldn't/didn't feel like you could talk to your usual friends the way you normally would. Part of that is understandable not only because of the details but also non-addicts without experience are like we used to be=naive. But it made me remember how my ex got angry when I shared with only my closest family who could help me. He equated it with me betraying him, our relationship and said all kinds of hurtful things about it. Guess what. I'm glad I did talk to someone. It helped me and it got me on track and away from his distorted thinking. Maybe there is someone you can talk to but you haven't thought of who it is yet.
Also, just because you started it does not mean you can not end it. YOU can end it. Just walk away. Just shut the door. Then get on with you and your healing. We all have a choice. It's our life. Ours.

Maylie

Checking his phone, dispensing his medicine, basically forcing him to take half of his medicine in front of you and asking all these questions is not being a supportive, helpful, or secure girlfriend. If he is going to progress in his recovery and the two of you are going to progress as a couple then all of that needs to stop. Just because he is an addict doesn't mean that he shouldn't be treated as you would treat any other boyfriend. I know that you might have been burned in the past, but it comes down to either accepting him as he is past and all or leaving. I am a recovered addict and a loved one of an addict and there is nothing worse than when you get sober and someone babies you, is always questioning you looking at your phone and watching you take you medicine.

As for the suboxone, you can shoot it without getting sick. I was on it in the past and before I committed to recovery I would shoot it with no problem and I have used and then taken it or taken it and then used and never got sick. If he wants to use he will

Please take all the focus off of him and start focusing on yourself. I would go to counseling to work through a lot of these issues you have with insecurities, codependency, and not getting over the past.

allforcnm

I hope your joint meetings go well tonight. I would try not to go down the road of what if's regarding his use of subs, and potential abuse. The bigger picture is his desire to change his life. He may stumble along the way as its common, but doesnt mean he wont make it in the end. Progress not Perfection, especially important in the beginning of recovery.

Since there is already so much talk of meds on here. If neither of you have heard of a drug called Naltrexone (aka Vivitrol) then do some research on this one. A person has to be fully detoxed before they can use it, but it is an opioid receptor antagonist; meaning it wont allow a person to get high from opiates. It also cannot cause a high on its own, and it is not addictive. My husband used it for 2 months while he began his recovery, and also said it helped with cravings. There are some people on substance abuse forum that post about it, one I think is PhilsFlyer if you want to look at some of his post, or see the Vivitrol website. Just an FYI.

Lily1918

powerful words maylie

incitingsilence

I know this drug. The naxolone is what it is, it is there to appease someone and that is most likely a good thing. Because it has helped many and wouldn’t have hit the market without a subutex/suboxone option.

And the not telling him isn’t about giving him ideas. I want you to know the drill. I want you to understand this drug for you. So that when he says but I can’t use on it and he sure as hell looks high …. Or you saw me take my dose I didn’t shoot it up and you see a fresh needle mark then you don’t play those head games with yourself of did he or didn’t he use. Cause you will …. Actually you should remove the addiction all together. What this information is not for is about calling him out, proving him wrong cause I don’t play those type of games it is about believing what you see. And leaving him to find his own way which he can and even if what you see looks bad, in the end the learning might just save him.

I am a huge advocate for sub. I know many people it has helped, my husband included.

And I totally agree with Maylie. I treated my husband as a capable person, let him make his own decisions with his recovery just as I made my own. I didn’t tell him how to recovery, didn’t do the you must do this or that stuff. I didn’t tell him how to feel, how to function. I sure as hell wouldn’t tolerate anyone telling me that. You got to remove yourself from being his moral conscience….

It gets easier in time and I hope you found some good stuff at the meeting you went too. If you didn’t don’t despair, I hear you should try another as all are not created equal.

divinespark

Quick Update, but first THANK YOU SO MUCH for all of your excellent advice, which is much appreciated. As I may have stated before I am trying to walk the fine line between enabler and enemy and unfortunately, for me, that line is still somewhat invisible, but thanks to you all and Al-Anon, and actually my BF pushing back, I'm starting to at least get a glimpse of a dotted line here and there. Thus far, he really seems to be on track. We have his first follow up visit to the sub doctor today, and I'm hopeful that the drug screen comes back how we want it to (+ for subs, - for other opiates). I even went with him to help his AXGF move. She is moving about two hours away from us, so I was delighted to help:-) After about 3 hours of helping out though I got bored and left him there unattended for a few more hours to help out on his own. Also, talked with him and let him know that if he could afford a $280/week habit, that he could afford $280 a month for his sub dr. visit and his sub strips. And what do ya know, he has the money to pay for his dr's visit today:-) I have even gotten him a "Congratulations!" card to give to him (pending lab results) to show my support. He committed to go to at least one 12 step a week, which although I do not think this is enough, it is HIS recovery (and I can go to more Al-Anon's on my own). I got to work early today to try to make up for some of last week's distractions. Please wish me luck that the test comes back clean, and that he takes more ownership of his recovery, I invest myself less in his recovery, while being truly "supportive" not policing, and that I can focus on my own codie recovery and work. Thanks again for your inspiration and steering me in the right direction!!!

divinespark

Ok BF passed the test with sub doc yesterday. Tomorrow is his two week anniversary. I managed to actually concentrate on MY work today instead of his recovery:-) He sent me 6 texts throughout the day but I barely had time to check my phone. I have stopped stalking him with Find My Friends and iTrack (well only once all day vs about 250 times). Perhaps this could be trust, acceptance, etc? Or just recovery of my own brain which was beginning to dysfunction b/c all I could think about was his DOC and route of admin and how to keep the three of them separatede for good. Anyway, he did pay for his own doc appt and is going to take more and more ownership of his problem which is HIS. And I am going to work on me:-)