Miller05

hi guys...when i go to my nar anon meetings, i hear so many horrible stories. from people stealing money, jewelry....opening up credit cards in loved one's names to get money for drugs...cheating.....an addict son punching his dad in the face....an addict son beating up his mom.....one lady even had her CAR stolen and used as collateral by her brother's dealer to get drugs. another husband had a wife who was sleeping with her dealer for drugs...it is all bad...one of the women in there had a daughter who was pregnant and taking drugs....the baby came out addicted to coke......unspeakable.

and we are all in nar anon....learning to detach and be happy in spite of all that has happend.

my husband has done unspeakable things as well....i just sometimes wonder how in the world do you forgive? everyone in that meeting loved their addict...and it seemed like they all wanted to "work it out" or had hope that "their son would come home"...or that "their daughter would get custody of her grandson again."

but i wonder....okay, so what if they did get it together....get into a real recovery.....how in the world do you "let it go?" how do you forgive them for everything they did to hurt you?

i have asked this question time and time again....and everyone here has helped me a great deal. i guess i just need to ask again...and vent again. see, i am struggling with forgiveness....i am in therapy, marriage counseling.....my husband is working his program...but forgiveness seems so elusive to me.

sometimes i feel like if i can "let go" i can be happy....but i keep holding on to all of the ugliness. i replay it over and over again in my mind...and cant be healthy.

my husband is doing "all he can"...i really cant think of anything else he can do, you know?

i wish i didnt feel like this.

HopeSpringsToo

Yes, I have forgiven my husband. I wanted/want to preserve our marriage if he chose/chooses recovery for life. I won't live with active addiction or a dry addict not in real recovery.

Forgiving him was more about making me healthier than it was for his benefit really. I don't want to live with the emotional and mental rot from resentment. I don't want to carry around that baggage, and truly felt that it would be poison to me if I did so. As a result, I'm much more at peace, even though he is still very early in recovery (he just got out of inpatient last week).

I had to really analyze what was driving my motivations when it came to resenting him and being unable to forgive at first. Once I got to the underlying emotions behind that, and what I wanted, and what was my responsibility to change and what was his, then it became much easier to let go of it. Also, educating myself on addiction went along way to helping me understand the disease (and yes, I believe it is a disease).

Good luck to you - if anything, do it for you and no one else.

zoso77

No. I haven't forgiven my AXGF for her actions.

Yes, she's sick. She's an addict and she's a Borderline Personality. And I can attribute her sadism to the latter. But the way I look at it, she was warned that there was one thing I would not forgive her for, and when she confessed all she had done behind my back, she did so with relish. She wanted to hurt me and denigrate me as much as she could on her way out the door.

There are some that feel that compassion towards the addict and forgiving the addict is more about us than the addict, and on principle, I agree with that. At the same time, the fact that I haven't forgiven my AXGF has not been detrimental to my own recovery at all. What she did was never about me and was always about her, and once I accepted that, I was able to put her behind me pretty quick. These days, I can laugh about it.

So, no, I haven't forgiven her. I won't forgive her. And for me, it's really that simple.

ZoSo

atalose

I know for me al-anon helped me discover that forgiveness can be as simple as me changing my attitude. I was full of anger and resentments and it was eating me alive. Kind of getting in my way to see and learn beyond it. I learned that forgiveness was more for me than anyone else. I could quietly let things go in my mind, I didn’t have to announce it or make a big production about it. It was me; I and I resolving to not allow all that stuff from years ago hold me hostage in the present day.

What’s that expression: resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

allforcnm

Hi Miller,

You already know my story so I wont repeat it, but some of the concepts below have helped me in the past:

Trust: Restoring a wounded relationship is like trying to take down a large brick wall separating us from those with whom we were once close. No matter how hard you try, it won’t come down all at once. Be patient. Good recovery allows you to remove only a few bricks each day.

Trust Bank: Trust cannot automatically be rebuilt; it must be earned, one behavior at a time. The process of rebuilding trust can be compared to a bank account. When I keep my word to you, a deposit is made to the Trust Bank. When I lie to you, a withdrawal is made. When the account is empty or has a negative balance, there is no foundation on which to build.

Forgiveness: Someone once said that forgiveness is letting go of the idea that you could have had a different past. When we forgive, we surrender the burden of hurts and resentment that so easily weigh us down and keep us from living a full and joyful life. We choose to forgive for ourselves, not for the other person.

Forgiveness is not a mental exercise. Rather it is a willed change in thinking by those who have been hurt. It means not letting resentments steal your peace in the present or rob your future. If you want to FEEL differently, you must THINK differently.

helpme33

My EXAH left me too many times for other women, too many lies, fired for selling drugs from the company vehicle.

I didn't really forgive him for a very long time, the abusive relationship went on for too many years. I couldn't get him out of my life until he remarried, then things got better.

Now that I have been in a relationship with a wonderful man for 14 years I can honestly say I have forgiven him. But that doesn't mean I care to ever have any kind of contact with him. I'm just over the pain he caused me and the children. The ones he has had no contact with for 20+ years.

And my AS, yes, I have forgiven him. I also got tired of the conns and lies and now that he has gone NC, it is probably for the best. I am disappointed in his choices, but, they are his choices. As long as he continues to use and abuse a chance for a relationship is extremely small.

It's (IMO) very difficult to get passed the past with an addict. I think that is the reason so many decide to start over. It's scary to think that we could be in that situation forever. To this day my EXAH still uses drugs.

Chino

This is an Amish concept and it works for me:

“Forgiveness is letting go of the right to seek revenge."

I don't want to exact revenge on my daughter.

allthatsgood

Miller, I don't know how or why I forgave my son for some of the things he did to me and my husband. But as Hope Springs Too mentioned, learning about addiction helped me to understand why he did some of the things he did. I don't like to think back to those dark days because all it does is upset me and make me sad. I can't change what happened so I choose not to dwell on it. I'm sure he has had a lot of time in this past year of his recovery to think about what he has done and I imagine he must carry a lot of guilt around with him. I'm hoping sometime in the future we will be able to sit down and talk about it, as that has not happened yet.

incitingsilence

Forgiveness…

We forgive for our own soul, not for them. It is about letting go of the anger and not being consumed by it. And yet to forget, there are certain things that just can’t be forgotten.

Physical violence, to forgive to let go is one thing … to walk back into that already being shown what is possible, is a dangerous risk. Not one I personally would take.

Miller05

thank you guys....i appreciate you taking the time to read my posts and offer your valuable insight and support. i really do. the common thread in the posts you write is that forgiveness is really about doing it to help me personally...that not doing so would only allow the anger and resentment to eat me alive.
that is what i feel like it is doing...eating me alive. we had marriage counseling today...and he is completed dedicated to his recovery and healing our marriage.

in the session, i feel encouraged....and hopeful....and i listen to him...and the therapist and they make sense....i feel like we are making progress....and i see him owning and taking responsibilities for his actions....and "walking the walk"....all in his actions.....and i think to myself that i am healing.

but then....when i get home....or when i am alone....my mind creeps back to all of the ugliness...it is really like a horrible nightmare...he was a complete monster in every way possible. and now, clean and sober...it is almost like i dont know him...like i dont know this person who is despareately trying to be a better man. i am afraid of him...afraid to trust him...still. my expectations are so low because i know exactly what he is capable of.....and that makes me insecure. i still to this very moment...find myself "accepting" that this is all true....my husband is a damn drug addict/alcoholic.....this is real. he said the other night at the table...when he was talkjng about his recovery.....he mentioned that he wanted to make new friends in aftercare that were sober, and living his lifestyle....he talked about how he doesnt want to stay in hotels that have bars when we travel....and he used the term...."i am an alcoholic." damn. i still could not believe that came out of his mouth....he said it so matter of fact......and i got privately angry with him all over again.

see what i mean?

he has this book from rehab....where they take notes...and i looked through it. it broke my heart to read about how he struggled with this for so long....and all the things that him....and the other group members are doing things to try and control their addictions.....it made me sad...

and then really angry....and i felt like it pushed me even further away....i found myself downright pissed when i looked over the things he wanted to do to make amends for all the bad he has done.....

i can definitely see why addicts and spouses "start over.": i mean, they have done so many horrible things.

i am just going to think about what you all said....and really work on trying to let go for me.

DesertEyes

Hello Miller05, and pleased to "meet" you

I see the act "forgiveness" as being made up of two separate parts.

The first is "absolution", which means to hold somebody _free_ of the responsibility for their actions. Like a toddler that breaks a glass. I absolve the toddler of the responsibility for cleaning up the mess, or paying for the broken item. I look at who left the glass within the toddler's reach.

"Forgiveness" is what a bank does when a loser skips town on a 200 dollar debt. The bank calculates that it will cost more than 200 bucks to find the guy, so they write it off. They still report him to the credit agencies, and maybe file a lien with the IRS. They do _not_ absolve him for the responsibility of the loan, they just have better things to do with their business.

I have not absolved my ex-wife for the damage she did to our marriage, or to the marriages she helped destroy by having affairs with other women's husbands. What I have forgiven is my need to have her apologize. I have better things to do with my life than spend it waiting for her to change. She's not going to apologize, and like looking for the person who left a glass within reach of a toddler I have looked at why I had that need for an apology.

That's not the way I did it. Just like the program is "one day at a time" the forgiving business is "one hurt at a time". First I worked on _me_ and my expectations, much later I started to work on separating what part of the hurt was her fault and what part was me being in denial. After that I worked on getting my expectations to be in line with reality....

Which is the round-about way of suggesting that doing all of your recovery right now might be a little too much too fast. What worked for me was to take the whole process very, very slowly. "Baby steps" is what they say at my meetings.

Today I have no resentments left towards my ex. It's just not worth the effort. I did not get here in one day, or even one year, but I did manage to reach a bit of serenity and "acceptance" by working my program slowly and carefully.

Mike

cangel2

This is an excellent question for where I am at the moment with my AS.

Reading the different approaches I was thinking that perhaps it is important to first decide whether or not there will be an ongoing relationship with the person. If so then coming to a place of "forgiveness" is probably very important. If there is no continuing relationship then acceptance - forgiveness of our role in the relationship may just be enough.

With my son and I it is too soon. We need more time to pass and to be able to establish a new normal, re-establish trust and develop a healthier/separate way of relating and communicating. My expectation is that this will take several years so I am in no hurry.

In the meantime I strive to separate my love and caring for him from any other feelings. I focus on those and trust that given time the forgiveness will come....I also suspect that it may be a two way street.

MiSoberbio

Miller05,

I understand the frustration and confusion you feel right now, but from your most recent post it sounds to me that it's not so much the events of the past that are leading to you feel this way – it's the REALITY of the present. You say that you "can't believe what came out of his mouth" after he said matter-of-fact "I am an alcoholic" – well, as you pointed out, this is real. This is the reality, and no matter how much you don't want it to be this way (who would?), you can't change it.

I can't get into your husband's brain, but I'm fairly certain that he didn't choose to be an addict. It's what happened -- it's the reality.

In my own recovery I am seeing how emotionally immature I have been for all of my adult life. I've looked away and avoided reality for so long, prayed for God to change things, denied glaring truths because to accept them would make my artificial reality unstable... It's been a long road (which I continue to journey), but now I can understand better how an emotionally mature person doesn't fight what's real, and it has little to do with "giving in" or "submission" and a lot to do with humility, trust, and self-love.

While your husband is working on himself, you can work on yourself. You've both been through a lot of nasty stuff and there's a lot of healing required. However, you are two individuals and each of you needs to focus on your own, individual healing, whether or not the marriage survives. He needs to be responsible for his own recovery, completely, as do you. I don't know if your husband asked you to read his journal from rehab, but if he didn't, I feel that you should think about why you did, and why what he wrote generated anger within you. His addiction, his struggle, his recovery, is his... And if he did ask you to read it, consider why you agreed to do so. Could it be that something inside of you is looking for reasons to be angry? Something to blame for the resentment that is gnawing inside?

The things I write come my experience – I wanted to blame my partner for everything that was wrong inside of me, most of which he had very little to do with. He did monstrous things, too, and I ultimately went no contact, but that didn't make MY problems go away. I've had to really look at myself closely, at my past, which was subverting my present and not allowing me to live in the here and now. The tranquility I've gained so far has been the result of finally coming around to accept reality.


As far as forgiveness is concerned, for me, I must carefully examine myself and consider if either my desire to forgive or my willingness to retain anger stems from some other motive. Am I forgiving in order to gain something (other than peace)? Am I retaining the anger about being wronged in order use it later?.... From what you've said, your husband did things that hurt you most profoundly, but now that you know more about WHY he did those things, and you clearly sense that the presence of these "things" inside of you cause you discomfort, what prevents you from letting go? In my experience I need to understand that before I can really forgive.

Sunshine2

Miller, I have been watching many videos on Youtube the last couple of days on forgiveness. I have forgiven my AS, but I still struggle with day to day stuff from other people. What I do know is that when I forgive I have peace and peace is what I want lol.

Some of the things that stood out to me is not to try and force forgiveness when you are not ready yet. Doing this will push your anger deeper and show up in bitterness later. You can start off by simply saying that you are willing to forgive, even if you are not ready for forgiveness itself.

Something else was to give forgiveness a different name. Could you feel compassion for him? For me using the term compassion comes a whole lot easier than forgiveness. Yet when I feel compassion, my anger is much less.

The one that stood out was to forgive yourself first. Are you still angry with yourself for being involved with him? Are you angry with yourself for letting him treat you that way? Once you can truly forgive yourself for whatever situation, I find forgiveness of the other comes a lot easier.

All humankind struggle with forgiveness. We often do not want to let go of that feeling of self-righteousness which we have when we hold on to our anger. The funny thing is that the person that benefits most of our forgiveness is ourself.

KKE

I am in the process of trying to forgive but I don't think I will ever forget. I don't think I will ever stop feeling like I need to protect myself. Is that forgiveness? I don't know.....either I know self preservation for me is a must.

Hanna

I never really felt like I had to forgive my brother. Anything wrong he did was about the drugs. He didn't do anything wrong to me. I didn't like many of his choices, but mostly I understood and felt compassion. I feel very grateful that it worked out that way. Our situation was just different.

I did feel like he needed to forgive me for enabling him and for bad decisions.

I dated a guy that was dishonest with me about drug use. He was there witnessing the issues my brother was going through and saw it all firsthand. I learned after letting him stay first with my family then in my house that he was on drugs. He tried to get my brother to use. He caused complete chaos in my home. He made me feel physically unsafe. He embarrassed me in front of my friends. He used me and my family and friends. He became disgusting to me. It makes me feel sick to think I was intimate with him in any way. I have not talked to him since I threw him out and hope that I never do. I have not been able to raise any compassion for him, and I know that is because I have not healed. I also know I am still angry and ashamed of myself for missing the red flags, for bringing a person like this around my brother, my family, my friends. The shame is what keeps me from feeling forgiveness, I believe. I feel stupid. I should have known better. If he every expressed remorse I might easily let it go but I think I will let it go without that one day. I need to work on this, because it makes me feel weak. I am not a woman that lacks compassion for others. This lack of forgiveness is about me, not him.

Brother #3 is in active addiction. I get mad sometimes and he's definitely hurt me and others, but if he got clean today there would not be a single thing that I would feel I needed to forgive.

I am not sure I would ever forget physical abuse, but that has not been part of the story with my brothers. Forgiveness to me means some sense of understanding and I don't know if I could ever understand hurting someone physically, especially a man hurting a woman or a parent hurting a child.

LoveMeNow

I was stuck in the "forgiving" part too for a while. But for me, it was all fear based. I was scared to forgive my husband because I was afraid to be hurt again.

In my mind, holding on to the anger gave strength and didn't allow me to feel vulnerable....or so I thought. The more I grew and the more empowered I felt, the less angry I became and forgiveness became easier and easier.

The lesson for me was to learn to stop "outsourcing" my happiness and/or my misery. I often confused fear and anger. I had to work through a lot of fear, to help with my anger and to reach forgiveness.

Hanna

I am inspired by the way Amish capacity for forgiveness. The school shooting comes to mind.

Also by the book "Unbroken" and Louis Zamperini's willingness to forgive the man that treated him as inhuman.

AnvilheadII

The Oxford English Dictionary defines forgiveness as 'to grant free pardon and to give up all claim on account of an offence or debt'.

forgiveness does not change whatever happened, it doesn't fix it, it doesn't even make it OK....forgiveness frees us from reliving the event(s) over and over and over again and allows us to move forward. i don't know if you can hold onto anger and grant forgiveness at the same time?? it seems that the more personal we take the slight, grievance, offense or abuse, that much harder it is to let go. our anger (fight or flight) is trying to get our attention and keep us safe - not sure that should be completely squelched or ignored. if someone has screwed us over 16 ways til Sunday, it would BEHOOVE us to be extremely cautious about positioning ourselves to be in line for yet another screwing over.

Chino

Unless you have PTSD.

Every time I relive certain events in my life, I have to go through the process of forgiveness all over again. It's the most difficult thing I've ever done and continue to do.