Is this enabling?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: McLean VA
Posts: 93
Is this enabling?
I invited my AB's girlfriend and her new baby girl (my niece) to come for a few days to visit. We live several states away and its tough for the 4 of us to get down to them right now. (me, hubbie, 2 kids) She said she would love to visit.
Since she is on maternity leave and 1 airline ticket is not too expensive I bought it for her.
Well, she didn't mention it to AB since right now, even though she is once again living with him, she doesn't trust him or his moods.
So I left AB a message letting him know I was inviting her. He calls back and says why dont we come down, not sure if its a good idea, etc.. I offered to call gf and he says no that's ok. (basically trying to control things.)
Then to his gf he says I'm trying to get info on him, being conniving, etc.. Of course to me he admits none of this.
OK, so is it enabling to not let on that I know of his using, lying, manipulating, etc..?? Is it enabling to secretly buy a ticket (now who knows if she will use it as she is afraid of pissing AB off).
Should I tell her not to come? I have a feeling she won't unless things get really bad and then she tells him she needs a break (this is what she has said to me.)
I don't see the point in a confrontation, although I told gf she has to decide 1 week prior as I'd have to get ready and she'd obviously have to tell AB that she has decided to come down.
Yesterday AB called and sounded so good you would swear he wasn't an addict. I know better but I know how he dupes my parents. Then last night he went out. They sure are master manipulators!!
Since she is on maternity leave and 1 airline ticket is not too expensive I bought it for her.
Well, she didn't mention it to AB since right now, even though she is once again living with him, she doesn't trust him or his moods.
So I left AB a message letting him know I was inviting her. He calls back and says why dont we come down, not sure if its a good idea, etc.. I offered to call gf and he says no that's ok. (basically trying to control things.)
Then to his gf he says I'm trying to get info on him, being conniving, etc.. Of course to me he admits none of this.
OK, so is it enabling to not let on that I know of his using, lying, manipulating, etc..?? Is it enabling to secretly buy a ticket (now who knows if she will use it as she is afraid of pissing AB off).
Should I tell her not to come? I have a feeling she won't unless things get really bad and then she tells him she needs a break (this is what she has said to me.)
I don't see the point in a confrontation, although I told gf she has to decide 1 week prior as I'd have to get ready and she'd obviously have to tell AB that she has decided to come down.
Yesterday AB called and sounded so good you would swear he wasn't an addict. I know better but I know how he dupes my parents. Then last night he went out. They sure are master manipulators!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
not sure about enabling, but it does ring of interfering?
you extended an invitation to her. and then went so far as to purchase a ticket FOR HER- had she then COMMITTED to coming on a specific date? and then you let the cat out of the bag to your AB whereas she had yet to talk to her boyfriend about this, for whatever reasons. but now he knows and is putting up resistance and probably making things harder on HER.
in retrospect, it should have stopped at the invite and then let HER decide if she was going to come, when, how she planned to get there and when and how she planned to have this discussion with her partner.
you extended an invitation to her. and then went so far as to purchase a ticket FOR HER- had she then COMMITTED to coming on a specific date? and then you let the cat out of the bag to your AB whereas she had yet to talk to her boyfriend about this, for whatever reasons. but now he knows and is putting up resistance and probably making things harder on HER.
in retrospect, it should have stopped at the invite and then let HER decide if she was going to come, when, how she planned to get there and when and how she planned to have this discussion with her partner.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
What is your reason for inviting her to visit? If it is to see her and the baby, I think you are in the clear. If it is to assess his situation, take care of her because he isn't doing it, or otherwise control/mitigate his actions it seems like a bad idea.
Their relationship is their own. You are not responsible for it. You are also not responsible for worrying about their communication with one another.
So I say cut off the cross communication. What he says to her should not be repeated to you if you want to stay on your own "side of the street". Their relationship should not be a topic of discussion. I'd say something like "I'll leave the decision up to you, just need to know by X date." If he calls you say nothing except "I'm excited about seeing the little one!" If she complains about him you say "That sounds difficult. What are you going to do about it?"
You are under no obligation to tell him anything, so no need to mention the ticket. If you invited any other adult to come visit would you be worried about what their significant other would say? No, we let responsible adults handle their own relationships.
As for confronting him, have you seen him use? Directly caught him lying? Been manipulated by him? If you haven't seen this stuff first hand, all you have is info given to you by others. Do you think there may be something to gain by telling him you are getting reports that he is not clean? Sounds like a game of telephone to no positive end to me. If you think he's full of BS, you have every right to say that but just know it's not likely to change his behavior.
As an example of when I personally do let on that I know something:
I called my brother out when mom reported that he asked to "borrow" money for something for which he'd already hit me up. I'd given him $ with the caveat, "This is it, forever. I'll never be able to give you any more $." Months later he told her he needed money for the same thing and she mentioned it to me. He called angry after I told her I'd already "paid" for this particular crisis and she called him out. He tried to say it was a different matter and I basically said "Sell it somewhere else. I've got the message you sent with specifics to prove it." Cue silence.
The net effect is that Mom stopped giving him $ and he stopped bothering me at all for a while. He also does not ask me for $ any longer. I recently learned that he hit a 3rd person up for the same thing, and I let that person in on the manipulation. He'll probably call/text angry things when he finds out I blocked another source of $ for him, but I don't even listen any more. My response is usually something about "Love you and wish you all good things." One day he will get it. Until then our interaction is going to be extremely limited.
Peace,
Hanna
PS: I put paid in quotes because I know that's not at all what he did with the money. I think I knew that at the time but couldn't handle saying no. Instead I said yes but also "never again." That's what I was able to live with at the time.
Their relationship is their own. You are not responsible for it. You are also not responsible for worrying about their communication with one another.
So I say cut off the cross communication. What he says to her should not be repeated to you if you want to stay on your own "side of the street". Their relationship should not be a topic of discussion. I'd say something like "I'll leave the decision up to you, just need to know by X date." If he calls you say nothing except "I'm excited about seeing the little one!" If she complains about him you say "That sounds difficult. What are you going to do about it?"
You are under no obligation to tell him anything, so no need to mention the ticket. If you invited any other adult to come visit would you be worried about what their significant other would say? No, we let responsible adults handle their own relationships.
As for confronting him, have you seen him use? Directly caught him lying? Been manipulated by him? If you haven't seen this stuff first hand, all you have is info given to you by others. Do you think there may be something to gain by telling him you are getting reports that he is not clean? Sounds like a game of telephone to no positive end to me. If you think he's full of BS, you have every right to say that but just know it's not likely to change his behavior.
As an example of when I personally do let on that I know something:
I called my brother out when mom reported that he asked to "borrow" money for something for which he'd already hit me up. I'd given him $ with the caveat, "This is it, forever. I'll never be able to give you any more $." Months later he told her he needed money for the same thing and she mentioned it to me. He called angry after I told her I'd already "paid" for this particular crisis and she called him out. He tried to say it was a different matter and I basically said "Sell it somewhere else. I've got the message you sent with specifics to prove it." Cue silence.
The net effect is that Mom stopped giving him $ and he stopped bothering me at all for a while. He also does not ask me for $ any longer. I recently learned that he hit a 3rd person up for the same thing, and I let that person in on the manipulation. He'll probably call/text angry things when he finds out I blocked another source of $ for him, but I don't even listen any more. My response is usually something about "Love you and wish you all good things." One day he will get it. Until then our interaction is going to be extremely limited.
Peace,
Hanna
PS: I put paid in quotes because I know that's not at all what he did with the money. I think I knew that at the time but couldn't handle saying no. Instead I said yes but also "never again." That's what I was able to live with at the time.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
not sure about enabling, but it does ring of interfering?
you extended an invitation to her. and then went so far as to purchase a ticket FOR HER- had she then COMMITTED to coming on a specific date? and then you let the cat out of the bag to your AB whereas she had yet to talk to her boyfriend about this, for whatever reasons. but now he knows and is putting up resistance and probably making things harder on HER.
in retrospect, it should have stopped at the invite and then let HER decide if she was going to come, when, how she planned to get there and when and how she planned to have this discussion with her partner.
you extended an invitation to her. and then went so far as to purchase a ticket FOR HER- had she then COMMITTED to coming on a specific date? and then you let the cat out of the bag to your AB whereas she had yet to talk to her boyfriend about this, for whatever reasons. but now he knows and is putting up resistance and probably making things harder on HER.
in retrospect, it should have stopped at the invite and then let HER decide if she was going to come, when, how she planned to get there and when and how she planned to have this discussion with her partner.
I missed that part. Yes, it seems like interference to me, too. What were you feeling and thinking when you told him? I personally wouldn't want to hide this, but would have made that clear to here when I extended the invitation.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: McLean VA
Posts: 93
I paid for the ticket because she has no money to come and its about a 10 hour drive. I don't think she could do the drive with the baby.
I will tell her when she decides for sure (atleast 1 week prior) that she must discuss it with him.
When he called yesterday he said she won't come, she's starting back at work. She said she gave work notice of those days off..
I will tell her when she decides for sure (atleast 1 week prior) that she must discuss it with him.
When he called yesterday he said she won't come, she's starting back at work. She said she gave work notice of those days off..
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I will tell her when she decides for sure (atleast 1 week prior) that she must discuss it with him.
see that part really isn't any of YOUR business...whether she talks to him about it OR NOT. that's the interfering part. that's HER stuff.
see that part really isn't any of YOUR business...whether she talks to him about it OR NOT. that's the interfering part. that's HER stuff.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: McLean VA
Posts: 93
So...tell her not to come unless we both level with AB about whats been going on? or just maybe its best not to come, we will be down there sometime this summer?
I feel really stuck. AB has a history of violence and I really don't want him taking this out on her..
Plus there's the fact that I WOULD like to meet my niece and hubbie is not in too big a hurry to visit the chaos down there where they live..
I feel really stuck. AB has a history of violence and I really don't want him taking this out on her..
Plus there's the fact that I WOULD like to meet my niece and hubbie is not in too big a hurry to visit the chaos down there where they live..
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
AB has a history of violence and I really don't want him taking this out on her..
I would not want to be in your sister in laws shoes right now.
I have been there. With a baby and an abusive unpredictable alcoholic.
Level with your brother about the trip? What is left? You already told him about it.
Once he became violent, he lost all privileges as far as something like this goes.
Level with him? Wow.
Beth
Have you read any of the sticky posts at the top of this forum? They are extremely informative and will give you an education about what is going on.
I am sure you mean well, you just do not know.
Last edited by wicked; 04-10-2013 at 02:54 PM. Reason: ack, so emotional. repeating myself.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
I agree with Beth. If he's been violent with her there is no way I would put myself in the position of giving him information that she purposely withheld.
I mean this sincerely and not intending it to be accusatory: what was your motivation for telling him and/or demanding that she do so?
I think you have to really analyze your own reasons for inviting her and for getting involved in their relationship. I'm my opinion, any time I did this I was adding to the family chaos rather than being a stable and healthy player.
I mean this sincerely and not intending it to be accusatory: what was your motivation for telling him and/or demanding that she do so?
I think you have to really analyze your own reasons for inviting her and for getting involved in their relationship. I'm my opinion, any time I did this I was adding to the family chaos rather than being a stable and healthy player.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: McLean VA
Posts: 93
I only told AB I was inviting her. Thats it. It really wasnt my intention to get involved in their relationship. But its hard when she calls crying that he's out, and when he comes back he's so angry and pushed her down, etc.etc. and that she has no where to go. I know I'll get stronger and better about dealing with all of this...I know SHE has to be the one to leave or get help. But its hard not to feel bad for her (ok, and myself 
as he is my brother too.)
as he is my brother too.)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
I totally understand. The other people involved (spouses, children, our parents is what makes this so complex for us as siblings.
Also understand about just telling him you invited her, not that she was coming. That is such a normal thing to do, in a normal family. Things aren't normal for us though, so we have to learn different ways of doing things.
The thing to do is learn how to draw boundaries for yourself so that you aren't taking on a problem she should be solving herself. She is allowing this situation to continue. You can't stop her any more than you can stop him. But you need boundaries so that they aren't dragging you constantly into their mess. I don't think that you are in a good position to get her to see what needs to change, so listening to her is likely to only cause you grief. Hard to draw the line between what is supportive and what is healthy for you.
Keep posting and consider Al-anon if you haven't already. SR has helped me and my recent foray into 12 step study is helping even more.
Hugs,
Hanna
Also understand about just telling him you invited her, not that she was coming. That is such a normal thing to do, in a normal family. Things aren't normal for us though, so we have to learn different ways of doing things.
The thing to do is learn how to draw boundaries for yourself so that you aren't taking on a problem she should be solving herself. She is allowing this situation to continue. You can't stop her any more than you can stop him. But you need boundaries so that they aren't dragging you constantly into their mess. I don't think that you are in a good position to get her to see what needs to change, so listening to her is likely to only cause you grief. Hard to draw the line between what is supportive and what is healthy for you.
Keep posting and consider Al-anon if you haven't already. SR has helped me and my recent foray into 12 step study is helping even more.
Hugs,
Hanna
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: McLean VA
Posts: 93
Just a quick update. Girlfriend did not come. So I'm out the $250 for that airline ticket. Won't do that again! Instead she stayed home and took care of her baby and my AB's son while he was on another bender (2 nights). Meanwhile my parents drove down to spend 3 months there in their new home. They were just in time to pick up AB's son from after -care since girlfriend had to work late.
Guess I should feel relieved that I didn't meet my niece, have my kids get even slightly attached to my niece, or get further involved in my AB/"girlfriend"'s relationship.
Thinking of going no contact with AB. Have nothing more to say other than Go to rehab. Should I even say that? He has to find his way. Saying it doesn't help right?
Guess I should feel relieved that I didn't meet my niece, have my kids get even slightly attached to my niece, or get further involved in my AB/"girlfriend"'s relationship.
Thinking of going no contact with AB. Have nothing more to say other than Go to rehab. Should I even say that? He has to find his way. Saying it doesn't help right?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
It has helped me personally to tell my brother that I believe he needs help and that I will not interact with anyone I believe to be using drugs.
It might not help him but it helps me to be honest and direct in the kindest way I know how. I didn't feel okay until I said it. Once I recognized the problem and acknowledged it I had to say something. If I see a loved one with a major issue it feels wrong not to say so. Like having a friend with food on their face and not telling them. It's their choice to leave it or wipe it off, but I couldn't live with pretending not to notice.
It might not help him but it helps me to be honest and direct in the kindest way I know how. I didn't feel okay until I said it. Once I recognized the problem and acknowledged it I had to say something. If I see a loved one with a major issue it feels wrong not to say so. Like having a friend with food on their face and not telling them. It's their choice to leave it or wipe it off, but I couldn't live with pretending not to notice.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
