pacificsunrise

LoveMeNow - thanks for the reply. you are right about being clueless about addiction. i was clueless too, until it happened to my family. i have also found that many people get hurt because of ignorance. thank you for the encouragement. hugs.

Bobolicious - they do not feel guilty. on several occasions in the past i tried talking to my mom about her hurtful criticism and her response was "well stop doing those things, then i won't need to criticize you". they are so self-righteous, it doesn't even dawn on them how do they make other people feel. thank you so much for your kind words. hugs.

zoso77

Pacific...

There's a difference between "college educated" and "emotionally intelligent". I know people who are Ph.D's in particle physics or MS's in electrical engineering who are emotional orangutans and just don't "get it". What motivates people like that, who the hell knows. It's not our problem; it's theirs.

Thank you for your kind words.

Take care of YOU.

ZoSo

Bobolicious

"Emotional orangutans"

OMG that's hilarious. Thank you for that.

Side note: I think that there are ignorant people, and there are people who don't act right because they just don't care. My family is well aware of their
a-holeness. They just didn't care, and I used to feel hurt when my friends would try and justify their repugnant behavior by saying that they didn't know better.
They absolutely knew better. They are just bad people who find pleasure in hurting others. Those people do exist. Trust me, I know.

pacificsunrise

story74 - thank you so much for replying. i read your threads a while back and your struggles and the way you handled your challenges inspired me. your fight for your son and your family rang so true with mine then and it still does. i am so glad that you have had the strength and courage to start over and you sound so much better. you are a strong woman and your son is lucky to have you.

as far as your inlaws, i can completely understand. after i left with kids and tried explaining to my mother in law the reasons for my leaving her son, they at first decided that it was a marital dispute and they were staying out of it (and this after my AH had to live w/ them for about a month b/c i kicked him out and he admitted his use to them). about a month into "domestic dispute" i got an ugly message from my mother saying how they side w/ their son 100% and that i have to allow him to see the kids or they will see me in court. well, that was over 2 yrs ago.

the first Christmas i declined their invitation to come over to their house, but said that would meet them (grandma and grandpa) at a restaurant so they can see the kids. they never got back w/ me.

this past Christmas, grandma wanted to know the kids sizes so she can buy them clothes. i texted them to her. they supposedly send the gifts w/ my AH, but as i have no contact w/ him, i never got them. i suppose mailing them was too much or unheard of. lol.

i hate for my kids not to be able to see their grandparents, but it might be for the best. like you said their denial would not help the situation.

thank you so much. i was so glad to hear from you. stay strong. thank you for being an inspiration and a great example of success.

hope your little boy is doing well in school. hugs and love.

LoveMeNow

I am a college graduate and was clueless about addiction. I knew people who were addicts and a couple that died. I just always thought it was a choice....and why didn't they just stop.

The words.....if you really loved me....we're spoken by me many times. I just didn't get it. I had no idea.....until I joined here. Then again, I had no idea about codependency either.

pacificsunrise

zoso - thanks for the laugh. agree w/ Bobolicious, it is hilarious. it is probably also an insult to the orangutans. lol.

Bobolicious

"Insult to orangutans"

You guys are killing me.

My friend had unprotected sex and thought that she could be HIV positive. I called my former mother (a nurse) while my friend listened in. I asked her about the symptoms of HIV. Not once during her description of the symptoms did she say, "Honey, omg do you think that you have HIV, a disease that could kill you!?" After I ended the conversation, my girlfriend said that she finally understood what I've been telling her about my family for years. They just didn't give a rat's ass about me. The first thing that I would have asked my daughter was why she was asking me that question, and if I needed to take her to a doctor. I'm not an extraordinary person, just one who cares about my kids.
Another example: When I was getting separated (at age 25), and living off of $1k a month with two little kids, I called my former mother, an upper middle class woman. I was crying and telling her that I didnt know how I was going to support my kids, and how I would probably end up without a home. Her response was, "Oh ok. I got to go because Aunt Diane is here and we're going to the outlet mall." LMAO If my brother would have called her, she would have rushed to his side with a box of Kleenex, and emptied her retirement account for him. Growing up, there was never one photograph of me in the house, but there were dozens of photos of my brother. Accident? Coincidence? Ignorance? I think not.

Yes, there are people who don't know better, but I believe that they're in the minority. Most who don't act right, do so because they simply do not care.
You don't have to understand addiction to know that you shouldn't be siding with a man who has hurt your daughter and her kids. Your daughter and her feelings/needs are priority #1.

Ice ice baby.

story74

I will never forget sitting on the back porch with my sister in law the day after everything about the drugs/girlfriend came out. I said I am googling cocain addiction on my phone. She gave me the most defensive upset "why" and I looked at her dumbfounded. I said, "I want to know everything about this drug". Later I rememeber telling her I was sending an email to my xah's friend up in another city. She was soooo upset and told me that I shouldn't do that. I wanted all his friends to know what was happening because maybe someone could save himm (ha). Anyways, because of this email, I found another HUGE lie my xah told me. Both of these conversations point to the fact she was choosing to not only be ignorant, BUT she didn't want anyone else to know...embarassed and denial.

Denial is very powerful.

Hang in there. You are doing everything right by those children. Being a single mother with no support isn't easy. I am sorry that your own mother and sister are being this way.

LoveMeNow

I am not so sure cutting them off is the answer unless it is causing you that much pain. IMO, boundaries and emotional detachment is a good start.

If you were single, I may think different. But with kids, you just may need them in a bind. I try not to burn bridges anymore. In doing so, I often find that I cut off my nose to spite my face. I am not implying you will be doing that in the least, I just know I have had a bad habit of it.

Bobolicious

I think burning bridges sometimes is absolutely essential for one's emotional well-being. If the family member is just a pain in the butt, a little slow, irritating, occasionally undependable, you might not want to give them the boot, as we all have our deficiencies. But, family members who have a consistent pattern of violating trust, hurting you, hurting your kids, making you cry, making you come to message boards to express your extreme pain etc.. Cut those kind out of your life. Having a toxic person in your life because you may one day need a babysitter is not going to be good for your self worth. My former mother would have paid for my kids very expensive sports and helped me with babysitting, but I would have committed suicide if I had to keep seeing her, and I am not kidding. That's the severity of the pain that I felt as a result of her actions and inactions. Yes, I struggled financially. Yes, I had to raise my kids by myself. But at least I could look myself in the mirror with some self respect knowing that I didn't allow people to abuse me anymore You have to weigh it out in your mind. How severe is your pain when dealing with your mother and sister? Is it unbearable or bearable? Does it hurt in your gut for days on end or is it a little bit of discomfort? Does it affect you every day life and/or self-esteem? Do you find yourself thinking about it much more than you should? Do you need medication as a result?

If my mother sided with my a drug addicted ex over me and my kids, I would never speak with her again. There are certain lines in life that are not to be crossed, and I think that's one of them. But, you have to do what's right for you and your family.

Are you able to discuss your feelings about this with them? Will they respect your wishes if you lay down the law? If not, I say adios.

I would be a millionaire now if I didn't burn bridges with family members who abused me. I wouldn't have traded forty years of that pain for any amount of money. I will beg, steal or borrow before I will ever allow people like that in my life again.

One other thing, I used to make lists of pros and cons of crazy family members? When you see it in writing, it may help you better decide what's best for you.

You can always temporarily stop seeing them, and see their reaction. Maybe, that will be enough to wake them up.

zoso77

I wanted to address LMN's point vis-a-vis my earlier post, i.e. "icing".

Children complicate things, especially if, in Pacific's case, her children are close to her mother and sister. Then "icing" is not a trivial matter because the children could conceivably be hurt. No one wants to see children hurt any more than they already have been when addiction is in the picture. So LMN brings up a good point in that you can't be reckless or vicious when you're dealing with difficult people. Especially if those different people are family.

That said, I don't equate icing with burning bridges. To me, when you burn bridges, there's no going back after that. That's an absolute last resort. And that's not the goal. The goal, ideally, is to set boundaries and rigorously and diligently maintain them. And if people insist on behaving in a manner that violates those boundaries and causes emotional injury, then there should be consequences to that.

ZoSo

pacificsunrise

Bobolicious - thank you for making me feel better. i go back and forth. some days i write it off as they don't know any better and others i feel that they are doing it intentionally just to cause drama, so I would need their "rescue" (as per Melody Beattie). either way it is annoying and hard to believe that they don't "know any better".

LoveMeNow - I agree with the education not having much to do with the actual knowledge. both my AH and I have degrees and yet like you, I was completely dumbfounded when I learned about the extent of the addiction and its hold on the addicted person. To be honest I still don't quite "get it" and probably never will, but I do have more understanding about it. Thanks for the encouragement.

pacificsunrise

Bobolicious - what you described about your "former mother" absolutely blows my mind. I must be too sheltered, b/c I can't even believe that such people even exist. Inside, I know that they do, I think I'm still in my own denial. I always want to believe in goodness in people and often on my own expense. So sorry for the undeserved treatment. And to think that they choose your brother over you, how unfair and also damaging to your relationship with your brother. you definitely deserve better and good for you for moving on with your life. hugs.

story74

I don't think going no contact or "icing" is burning a bridge. To me burning a bridge is when you stab someone in the back or f&^% someone over.

It is a very difficult situation and something you will have to decide. Either way, it is painful!

LoveMeNow

Just to clarify, I was responding to bobolicious who suggested burning the bridge.

I have gone nc (for periods of times) and I have burned a few bridges. I didn't stab them in the back or screw them over. I was just simply done and made sure they were aware of it. Some I regret because I acted immaturely or too hastily. Some, I am thankful about.

Bobolicious

"Burning a bridge" (my definition) means to terminate contact. To me, there is no correlation between "burning bridges" and screwing people over. I did misuse the idiom, however.

When I discontinued contact with my toxic family members, I just stopped talking with them. I don't consider that screwing them over. Plus, they couldn't have cared less about our lack of contact. It was a win/win situation.

pacificsunrise

story,

thank you so much. my in-laws are similar to yours. they have many alcoholics in their family (some of whom have passed away b/c of their addiction). when it came to my AH, i think that he was one of the few "good ones" that completed college, had a nice home, has a good job, etc. i don't think that they want to see the reality for what it is, because somehow that would imply that they did something wrong raising their son (his addiction is of course not their fault, but the way he was raised is questionable to me). also they do not want anyone to know because that would smear their family name.

what they forget to realize or are unaware of due to ignorance is that they are feeding their son's addiction. they are sadly allowing it to continue and it will quite possibly take his life in the end. i find it all very sad, because despite all the pain, i still do care for him and his family. i don't consider them bad people, just the victims in all this devastation.

hang in there. hugs to you and your son.

pacificsunrise

LoveMeNow, Bobolicious, Zoso, Story74 - thank you guys so much for your support. i agree with all of you in a way. i don't think that i'm quite ready to completely cut off my family for good. they do upset me at times and have proven to be quite not loyal to me. but, i cannot dictate what they do and with whom do they associate themselves with.

i can decide who do i want to spend my time with. i have decided to distance myself from them as much as possible, because at times their actions are hurtful. i need stronger boundaries, as you all have suggested. so far, i haven't really spoked to any of them and definitely not spoken about AH. noone has brought him up and i will no loger expect their support in the matter. if i need to talk about my AH i can do it here or with my other friends.

that said, maybe we can still have a civil and not too close relationship. of course, this is me talking now that i have cooled off from the latest drama. we'll see what happens.

just wanted to thank you guys for all the encouragement and wise words.

hugs and hope.

LoveMeNow

You sound like a very wise and reasonable woman, Pacificsunise. Your kids are very lucky to have at least one stable parent.

pacificsunrise

LoveMeNow - Thank you for all the encouragement. hugs to you.