Jodie77

I read "What addicts do" and while I agree with it wholeheartedly as I have been in relationships with many addicts in my life (most recently my xafiance who impulsively dumped me) why is it they do what they do?

In terms of repeating destructive behavior, jeopardizing relationships, being "charming" yet dangerously cruel, the Jekyll & Hyde behavior, the abandoning loved ones but being able to hold down a solid job? Constant contradictions and quacking, etc....

Why is it that some areas of their life are completely manageable but other areas aren't manageable, specifically intimate relationships? Are they just completely incapable of intimacy because it appeared in the early stages of my relationship (the first year) we HAD intimacy.

So do they do what they do because as the years progress they establish a certain kind of brain trauma? I ask this because if you met my xafiance and had a conversation with him you'd NEVER suspect he was an addict. I'm still trying to make sense of some of this.

AnvilheadII

you'd thin they all went to the same school and read out of the same text, wouldn't ya, generally speaking. i dunno Jodie - not EVERY addict is exactly like every other addict, but there are certain traits that seem to go with the territory.

how come codependents are they way they are? overly nice, timid, need to be liked, people pleasers etc?

you do bring up one of the more insidious manifestations of addiction tho...that ya often just can't tell right the gate. not many have it printed on t-shirts, or unless at an NA meeting announce their name and that they are an addict. and that is why we often get swept off our feet or blinded to those darn RED FLAGS.

Jodie77

It is insidious isn't it. You make a good point. I'm a raging codependent and if you met me on the street you'd never suspect it because I come across so independent and secure and healthy. Yet at the core I'm weak, fearful and a people pleaser.

So perhaps just like an addict you can't spot codependents per se. I don't know, I guess I'm just waiting for someone to tell me "Jodie, he fell out of love with you plain and simple; he didn't leave you because of drugs, he left you because he was over it."

He did seem to have a hard time understanding danger. For instance, he is deathly allergic to peanut butter. He went into anaphylactic shock one night and spent a day or so in the hospital. He almost died. Yet he continues to eat peanut butter and justifies it because he doesn't have an allergic reaction "every time" or that other peanut butter was "different." He also doesn't carry an Epi Pen with him. Isn't he afraid he'll go into anaphylaxis again? Very confusing to me.

zoso77

Because they're addicts.

ZoSo

stucna

Hard understanding danger? I remember my xabf once took few Valium pills for insomnia he has developed with his coke addiction. It knocked him out for good two days and freaked me out for way longer... Who with normal healthy thinking would play such a dangerous game?
Quoting Zoso: they doing that as they are addicts.

SoberKnitter

I think it's insulting and simplistic to paint all addicts with the same broad brush. I read this kind of crap here a lot. It's like hearing a bitter divorced man say that all women are alike.

zoso77

As they say in Al Anon, take what you like and leave the rest.

If you prefer a more empirical answer, I did consider typing something like this:

Asking why addicts do what they do is akin to asking why is the sky blue. We could answer the latter by examining how light scatters off the nitrogen and oxygen molecules in the atmosphere at wavelengths of tens of microns or something like that. I don't know what the wavelength of "blue" is. I could look it up, or I could simply accept that the sky is blue for the general reasons I've described.

Why do addicts do what they do? Because they're addicts. And while you may see a deviation of behavior +/- sigma from some mean on a case by case basis, you generally see common traits: pathological dishonesty, duplicity bordering on the sociopathic, an aversion to any sort of accountability, and a near constant need to tickle their pleasure centers at any and all costs. Any casual examination of the posts and stories here generally converge to what I've just described.

So, if you're offended by "this kind of crap here", that certainly wasn't my intent. But it just so happens that the "crap" has the benefit of being correct.

Have a nice night.

ZoSo

LoveMeNow

Jodie, have you watched the video Pleasure Unwoven? It really explains addiction well.

P.S. I disagree that no one would know we were codependents. IMO, addicts can spot us a mile away. Similarity, codies find one fixer upper after another...until we work our recoveries.

Jodie77

SoberKnitter,

No need to take offense. Most of us are here because we have dealt with unimaginable pain due to the addict's choices and behavior and we have loved them in spite of this. I am here for clarity. I am here so that others who have struggled with a similar situation can offer up support and words of wisdom. It's easy for you to take offense as you have not walked in my shoes and can't fathom the inconsistencies, lies, manipulation, dual personalities and neglect/abuse that I have endured as a result of every addict that has ever been in my life. Some were a part of my life without my choice as they were family members; others were there by choice because I fell in love with them (my ex husband and ex fiancé) ignoring the red flags.

At any rate, yes, most addicts (in my experience) have very similar personality traits. And I am here for clarity, not judgment or pity. You should also take into account that you will probably continually be offended if you continue to read our "crap" as most everyone on here has very similar stories and experiences with the addict in their life that they continue to love.

Best wishes and congrats in your sobriety.

Jodie77

Thank you, Zoso. We must have been typing at the same time!

LoveMeNow, good point and I will watch that!

EverHopeful721

As Anvilhead stated at the beginning of the thread, not EVERY addict is like every other addict. However, that being said, it's hard not to "paint all addicts with the same broad brush" when all of us here on F&F have suffered very similar, if not IDENTICAL, indignities, heartache and pain as a result of the actions of the addicts we love.... And btw, how nice to hear someone belittle said hurt and pain by calling it "crap".....wow.....

Best of luck with your recovery, SoberKnitter.

Reed30

what addict hasn't affected a relationship( family/friends/SO etc. ) from their abuse? Hurt others? Acted selfishly?
There are many common traits of an addict, that is why some may paint them all with the same brush. Not saying if its wrong or right.

Jodie, you sound a lot like me and I've asked the same questions you have been asking! my EXABF most ppl wouldn't think that he was an addict either. Shoot I had no idea, he hid it for a year and a half. But I think with addicts, they do not have the ability to process/rationalize emotions, feelings, events, situations etc as you or I would. There is a void in their brain, and drugs help them to function and process. You fiancé cared for you but he's unable to handle a relationship with another human being. Too many factors involved and instead of dealing with things, he's running away.

Also, I think recovery sounds difficult it's like a whole new Person. They need to learn how to deal with everything that comes his/ her way.

But You sound like you are heading on right track. Keep strong! and keep reading and posting on SR, it def helps to understand addicts.

SoberKnitter

These are common complaints for people in relationships, not just people in relationships with addicts.

I've never met a human who hasn't hurt someone or acted selfishly.

SoberKnitter

I didn't call the descriptions of hurt and pain "crap", I called the notion that all addicts are identical sociopaths "crap". Just like I call the wishes for luck with my sobriety "passive-aggressive."

tjp613

Jodie, I am a very curious person. Some people even say I'm smart. I'm not smart like Zoso-kind-of-smart, but I am very curious. When my son became addicted to drugs I read just about everything there is to read ... especially regarding the physiology of addiction (probably because it's the most 'concrete' or logical explanation). You factor in the myriad of psychological reasons a person remains addicted to drugs and the subsequent damaging fallout and you've got a real tangled mess on your hands. I was willing to delve into every aspect of it for the very reason of 'helping' my son untangle that mess. I was gonna 'fix' this kid if it was the last thing I did. After all, he is my kid so I must be at least 90% responsible for his screwed up life...right? I messed it up, so it must be my job to clean it up. Job #1 in that process was to answer the question of "Why?"

And back about 15 years ago I was enmeshed with an abuser. We had an amazingly dysfunctional relationship. People could not understand why a bright, beautiful woman like me (their words) would put up with such abuse, both physical and emotional. But I did....for 3 very long years. I stayed in just knowing I could FIX whatever was wrong with him...as soon as I understood Why he behaved the way he did! All I had to do was love him enough, be patient enough, wear what he liked, lose weight, dye my hair, grow it long, watch porn, smoke and drink like him, never look at another man, cook like a 5-star chef, attend Catholic church with him, nurture his kids, buy his clothes, gas and food, look the other way when he cheated, etc. etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. All that time, energy and self esteem was wasted trying to figure out Why he was the way he was. If I only understood Why, then I could surely fix it.

The question of "Why" has fueled my intellectual curiosity about a vast array of subject but it has also been an evil curse. And now...at 55 yrs of age...when I become obsessed with the question of "Why", especially about a person's behavior, I recall the words of my very wise counselor who said, "It doesn't matter Why."

It doesn't matter Why.
It is what it is.
The only thing that matters is what I'm going to do next.

Pretty smart lady.

LoveMeNow

I think if you have read here often enough, you would read that the subject of codependency is a common topic. It is often said that it mirrors much of the behaviors of an addicts. In fact, some classify it as an addiction.

I can certainly call myself and my behaviors codependent. I can identify with many of the characteristics. I am not offended in the least when it is referred to in generality or even specifics. I can not change what I can't admit or acknowledge. If you are triggered by this section, have you searched for the reasons why? This is a rhetorical question. No need to answer it here.

Vale

Soberknitter,

You are correct.It IS insulting and simplistic (not to mention
stereotypical) to label ALL addicts with the same broad brush.

But in my line of work,we term such self-evident facts as
'technically correct but operationally worthless'.

Rattlesnakes and Black Widow spiders are very prevalent in
my part of the planet.Although I have never been bitten by either
it is common knowlege that both are venomous and dangerous.

It is possible,however unlikely,that there are deeply addicted
human beings who are capable of warm,loving,and reciprocative
relationships.

The bottleneck of the human condition,of course.....is time.
I can stick my bare hand into every dark hole,hidden recess,or
lumber pile ----to test my hypothesis (that there exists a benign
sub-species of said animals).

But considering that I may not even survive my first encounter
----there are simply better uses of my God-given (yet finite) time.

Jodie77

Thank you everyone for your insightful responses. I read them multiple times. You all are really helping me to put things into perspective and are instrumental in my steps toward healing.

Everyone has such wise advice and I attribute that to experience! Thank you

Vale

LoveMeNow

Love the new avatar, lol!