Why do addicts DO that?
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" You’re an addict. How do you know if an addict is lying, every time they open their mouth. Takes on new meaning when you look at it that way, and turn the mirror on yourself. Those brutal remarks and things your ex partners sometimes did, maybe it is because it took that much to get you to let go. Maybe there were signs all along it wasn’t working, but you were holding on tight and didn’t see them, didn’t listen. You ask why it has to be what you call brutal at the end? Maybe that is what it took for the other person to finally force you to let them go."
I believe this statement is 100% truth. Sometimes it DOES take them cutting us out to get a codie to let go. Sometimes, a relationship isnt built on friendship. Its built on sex and enabling. Once sex is removed and the need for enabling is removed the couples are left with absolutely nothing.
Why do codies do what they do? Not trying to generalize but as for me and my codependency:
I am insecure of my own beauty and self worth
I am a control freak
I am posesive of the people in my life
I often think in a my way or the highway mentality
I am selfish
I have past resentments I am still trying to let go of
I judge people ( especially addicts) on their past actions instead of their current ones
I expect the worst possible outcome
Why do addicts do what they do?
Hmmmm well why did I use drugs... thats the only input I have...
Because I wanted to escape the monotony of this world.
Sobriety was depressing, being high made me happy
I wanted to not feel my resentments anymore
I wanted to escape fear
I wanted to not care
I wanted to not feel pain
I lied to not be judged for my choice to get high. I stole so I could have extra money to get high. I knew I hurt people, but that was their pain. Not mine. I had no pain, I had a blunt. Yes I loved the people in my life. Yes I wanted to be in their lives, but I just couldnt handle my pain. I needed to be numb.
I had to walk through the pain in order to be free from it, and new pain comes frequently. Now I choose to bear it. I dont know how I do. I hate it. But I do.
Im rambling, sorry. To summarize I get all codie cuz I want to control other people so they dont cause me pain. I used to use drugs to escape the pain I felt when my codiness failed and people or situations caused me pain anyway, and now I just bear and cry though the pain, because I realize that its just a part of life. I cannot control whether or not painful things will happen, but I can control how I react to it.... well... Im trying...
I believe this statement is 100% truth. Sometimes it DOES take them cutting us out to get a codie to let go. Sometimes, a relationship isnt built on friendship. Its built on sex and enabling. Once sex is removed and the need for enabling is removed the couples are left with absolutely nothing.
Why do codies do what they do? Not trying to generalize but as for me and my codependency:
I am insecure of my own beauty and self worth
I am a control freak
I am posesive of the people in my life
I often think in a my way or the highway mentality
I am selfish
I have past resentments I am still trying to let go of
I judge people ( especially addicts) on their past actions instead of their current ones
I expect the worst possible outcome
Why do addicts do what they do?
Hmmmm well why did I use drugs... thats the only input I have...
Because I wanted to escape the monotony of this world.
Sobriety was depressing, being high made me happy
I wanted to not feel my resentments anymore
I wanted to escape fear
I wanted to not care
I wanted to not feel pain
I lied to not be judged for my choice to get high. I stole so I could have extra money to get high. I knew I hurt people, but that was their pain. Not mine. I had no pain, I had a blunt. Yes I loved the people in my life. Yes I wanted to be in their lives, but I just couldnt handle my pain. I needed to be numb.
I had to walk through the pain in order to be free from it, and new pain comes frequently. Now I choose to bear it. I dont know how I do. I hate it. But I do.
Im rambling, sorry. To summarize I get all codie cuz I want to control other people so they dont cause me pain. I used to use drugs to escape the pain I felt when my codiness failed and people or situations caused me pain anyway, and now I just bear and cry though the pain, because I realize that its just a part of life. I cannot control whether or not painful things will happen, but I can control how I react to it.... well... Im trying...
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Outtolunch,
Perhaps if the stars aligned differently and the good Lord gave me a different set of grandparents and siblings and family members, perhaps then I could ponder why I "choose" the people that I do. But since I have no control over the family I was born into I guess that's a moot point now isn't it.
Perhaps if the stars aligned differently and the good Lord gave me a different set of grandparents and siblings and family members, perhaps then I could ponder why I "choose" the people that I do. But since I have no control over the family I was born into I guess that's a moot point now isn't it.
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jodie...while coming from dysfunction sets up dysfunction, at some point we have to take responsibility for our own choices. and stop and say, dang, i keep picking the same kind of guy....hmmm, i wonder what i can do to CHANGE that? you are not some mindless drone with no choices....now that you are seeing the patterns, YOU can DO something about it. otherwise you are playing victim and saying you are helpless against what you do.....
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Originally Posted by zoso77 
Daisy,
What I take exception to (in addition to his tone -- That ZoSo Guy) was the implication that poor behavior by addicts in the context of romantic relationships may be justified because the addict's partner didn't leave them any choice. And that doesn't pass my sniff test.
If the poster in question had truly done his homework, he would have seen that in my case, I had identified whatever mistakes I had made in the context of my relationship with my AXGF, had owned up to them, and have applied those lessons learned in my day to day life. There is a search function on the board, after all. He would also have noticed that it was after I had detached with love from my AXGF and stopped enabling her to be helpless that she left. And she was vicious in the process, behavior that is consistent with Borderline Personality Disorder.
Instead, the poster was presumptuous, implying that my AXGF really didn't have a choice because of whatever behavior I had exhibited.
So did I stomp on him? Yup. And I'd do it again, too. Because not only did he not know what he was talking about in regards to what brought me to SR, but because his point of view transfers culpability from the addict to the codependant. And it's bunk.
ZoSo
What I take exception to (in addition to his tone -- That ZoSo Guy) was the implication that poor behavior by addicts in the context of romantic relationships may be justified because the addict's partner didn't leave them any choice. And that doesn't pass my sniff test.
If the poster in question had truly done his homework, he would have seen that in my case, I had identified whatever mistakes I had made in the context of my relationship with my AXGF, had owned up to them, and have applied those lessons learned in my day to day life. There is a search function on the board, after all. He would also have noticed that it was after I had detached with love from my AXGF and stopped enabling her to be helpless that she left. And she was vicious in the process, behavior that is consistent with Borderline Personality Disorder.
Instead, the poster was presumptuous, implying that my AXGF really didn't have a choice because of whatever behavior I had exhibited.
So did I stomp on him? Yup. And I'd do it again, too. Because not only did he not know what he was talking about in regards to what brought me to SR, but because his point of view transfers culpability from the addict to the codependant. And it's bunk.
ZoSo
It was wrong for the poster to assume that all codies are lost in active "codiction" as I call it. I know you are in recovery. Im just wondering if that is what he was trying to say.... but was unable to communicate it effectively.
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Anvilhead,
The ENTIRE reason I am here is for help. Isn't that obvious?! I am here, reading Codependent No More, in Alanon 4 nights a week and seeing an individual therapist for HELP. That should be glaringly obvious as I do not want to repeat the same mistakes. However, the fact that basically my entire family is full of addicts really has nothing to do with my choices. I have been around addiction my entire life for reasons/purposes I had no control over.
I came to this site because it dawned on me that my 2 most recent intimate relationships (my ex husband and ex fiancé) are both addicts and I do not want to repeat this again. So yes that is why I'm here.
I am not playing the victim. I am in pain and I'm taking the proper steps to get healthy. I am in a very fragile/vulnerable state right now and the last thing that I (or people newly to SR) need is judgment and finger pointing. You all are MUCH further advanced in your recovery and it's not reasonable to think that I will be at the same level as you all. However, that's why I'm here. This is a work in progress and I'm doing the best I can with the realization that I have just come to terms with: I am codependent. Again, that's why I'm getting help. While all of you have graduated I am still in grade school in terms of this "issue."
The ENTIRE reason I am here is for help. Isn't that obvious?! I am here, reading Codependent No More, in Alanon 4 nights a week and seeing an individual therapist for HELP. That should be glaringly obvious as I do not want to repeat the same mistakes. However, the fact that basically my entire family is full of addicts really has nothing to do with my choices. I have been around addiction my entire life for reasons/purposes I had no control over.
I came to this site because it dawned on me that my 2 most recent intimate relationships (my ex husband and ex fiancé) are both addicts and I do not want to repeat this again. So yes that is why I'm here.
I am not playing the victim. I am in pain and I'm taking the proper steps to get healthy. I am in a very fragile/vulnerable state right now and the last thing that I (or people newly to SR) need is judgment and finger pointing. You all are MUCH further advanced in your recovery and it's not reasonable to think that I will be at the same level as you all. However, that's why I'm here. This is a work in progress and I'm doing the best I can with the realization that I have just come to terms with: I am codependent. Again, that's why I'm getting help. While all of you have graduated I am still in grade school in terms of this "issue."
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Originally Posted by Lily1918
Zoso, I have always respected you. I admire your intelligence, but isnt it fair to say that maybe.... if a codie is lost in denial and refuses to work a program that they can drive an addict in recovery absolutely bonkers??
It was wrong for the poster to assume that all codies are lost in active "codiction" as I call it. I know you are in recovery. Im just wondering if that is what he was trying to say.... but was unable to communicate it effectively.
It was wrong for the poster to assume that all codies are lost in active "codiction" as I call it. I know you are in recovery. Im just wondering if that is what he was trying to say.... but was unable to communicate it effectively.
When we act out or act poorly, that's a choice. What the poster in question implied was because the codependant may behave in a manner that drives the addict nuts, the poor behavior of the addict is therefore somehow exempt from scrutiny or inspection. And that's bunk.
I appreciate your kind words very much.
ZoSo
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
jodie...while coming from dysfunction sets up dysfunction, at some point we have to take responsibility for our own choices. and stop and say, dang, i keep picking the same kind of guy....hmmm, i wonder what i can do to CHANGE that? you are not some mindless drone with no choices....now that you are seeing the patterns, YOU can DO something about it. otherwise you are playing victim and saying you are helpless against what you do.....
Ah yes zoso, we ALL have to take responsibility for our actions. Two wrongs do not EVER make a right.
I have noticed that everything has changed about my thinking since step four, and I really think (oh god Im taking others inventory and this is sooooo wrong!!!! But darn it Im gunna say it) I observe that many, many codies do not work the steps, or they stop at step three. They are so darn prideful that they wont look in the mirror and fess up to their own shortcomings. The addict is the only problem, they play victim. I know you dont, but I see many posters who do avoid looking at themselves. They dont take a motivational inventory every day. They are righteous because they dont use drugs.
I am going crazy in my brain right now because I am codependent and future tripping. I stumbled or am stumbling because of my issues. Freaking out for no reason.
Anyhow... Im quacking, sorry.
But Im frustrated with the forum lately. This is not a place to sit and b!tch about our addict on some kind of witch hunt. It is a place to look at ourselves and improve our lives
:horse
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jodie, you misunderstood me then...i was replying to YOUR specific post about how because of your family tree you don't have any choices.
Perhaps if the stars aligned differently and the good Lord gave me a different set of grandparents and siblings and family members, perhaps then I could ponder why I "choose" the people that I do. But since I have no control over the family I was born into I guess that's a moot point now isn't it.
you are saying that because of your family you have NO CHOICE.
but you do. now. that's the "victim" mentality i was speaking to...oh gee, can't help it, they made me this way. if you were to engage in working the 12 Steps you would go back thru your life and REVIEW what happened and how you responded. same thing...ok, yes that's where i CAME from but this is where i went AFTER that and these are the choices i made along the way. we don't blame THEM and we don't fault ourselves....we just assess, do an inventory - the good and the bad - just like taking our car in and having them put it on the scope - or when we go in for an annual physical and they take our weight and our vitals and do bloodwork - see what's working and what ain't.
Perhaps if the stars aligned differently and the good Lord gave me a different set of grandparents and siblings and family members, perhaps then I could ponder why I "choose" the people that I do. But since I have no control over the family I was born into I guess that's a moot point now isn't it.
you are saying that because of your family you have NO CHOICE.
but you do. now. that's the "victim" mentality i was speaking to...oh gee, can't help it, they made me this way. if you were to engage in working the 12 Steps you would go back thru your life and REVIEW what happened and how you responded. same thing...ok, yes that's where i CAME from but this is where i went AFTER that and these are the choices i made along the way. we don't blame THEM and we don't fault ourselves....we just assess, do an inventory - the good and the bad - just like taking our car in and having them put it on the scope - or when we go in for an annual physical and they take our weight and our vitals and do bloodwork - see what's working and what ain't.
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Originally Posted by Jodie77
Anvilhead,
The ENTIRE reason I am here is for help. Isn't that obvious?! I am here, reading Codependent No More, in Alanon 4 nights a week and seeing an individual therapist for HELP. That should be glaringly obvious as I do not want to repeat the same mistakes. However, the fact that basically my entire family is full of addicts really has nothing to do with my choices. I have been around addiction my entire life for reasons/purposes I had no control over.
I came to this site because it dawned on me that my 2 most recent intimate relationships (my ex husband and ex fiancé) are both addicts and I do not want to repeat this again. So yes that is why I'm here.
I am not playing the victim. I am in pain and I'm taking the proper steps to get healthy. I am in a very fragile/vulnerable state right now and the last thing that I (or people newly to SR) need is judgment and finger pointing. You all are MUCH further advanced in your recovery and it's not reasonable to think that I will be at the same level as you all. However, that's why I'm here. This is a work in progress and I'm doing the best I can with the realization that I have just come to terms with: I am codependent. Again, that's why I'm getting help. While all of you have graduated I am still in grade school in terms of this "issue."
The ENTIRE reason I am here is for help. Isn't that obvious?! I am here, reading Codependent No More, in Alanon 4 nights a week and seeing an individual therapist for HELP. That should be glaringly obvious as I do not want to repeat the same mistakes. However, the fact that basically my entire family is full of addicts really has nothing to do with my choices. I have been around addiction my entire life for reasons/purposes I had no control over.
I came to this site because it dawned on me that my 2 most recent intimate relationships (my ex husband and ex fiancé) are both addicts and I do not want to repeat this again. So yes that is why I'm here.
I am not playing the victim. I am in pain and I'm taking the proper steps to get healthy. I am in a very fragile/vulnerable state right now and the last thing that I (or people newly to SR) need is judgment and finger pointing. You all are MUCH further advanced in your recovery and it's not reasonable to think that I will be at the same level as you all. However, that's why I'm here. This is a work in progress and I'm doing the best I can with the realization that I have just come to terms with: I am codependent. Again, that's why I'm getting help. While all of you have graduated I am still in grade school in terms of this "issue."
Hugs jodie. I admire you for being here. You are coming along nicely. Im sorry if we seem rough around the edges, please dont feel a finger pointed at you.
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Originally Posted by Jodie77
GuideMe,
So does that mean after the novelty of the relationship wears off one gets bored again and needs a new girl in order to find that "high" again? I ask this because in the first year he was so so infatuated and attentive. He was calling and texting and professing his love daily. Our sex was off the charts--he wanted it constantly.
Then slowly he withdrew. Slowly he started becoming emotionally and verbally abusive. The longer I invested with him the more I loved him; the longer he invested in me the more annoyed and "routine" it got for him. The rush was gone so I suppose he'd discard me and continue in his real love--his opiates/coke/alcohol. After all, that's where he got his rush. When real life set in he ran for the hills.
So does that mean after the novelty of the relationship wears off one gets bored again and needs a new girl in order to find that "high" again? I ask this because in the first year he was so so infatuated and attentive. He was calling and texting and professing his love daily. Our sex was off the charts--he wanted it constantly.
Then slowly he withdrew. Slowly he started becoming emotionally and verbally abusive. The longer I invested with him the more I loved him; the longer he invested in me the more annoyed and "routine" it got for him. The rush was gone so I suppose he'd discard me and continue in his real love--his opiates/coke/alcohol. After all, that's where he got his rush. When real life set in he ran for the hills.
My AH and I have been together for about 13 years. We have 2 kids and he raised my 3 from a previous marriage. The sex and intimate relationship didn'[t fall apart until about a year and a half ago. It was great and he was very affectionate. I remeber a time i even felt smothered.. I need my space, what can I say
Even then. He was able to keep the show going.. I knew he used in college. I thought that was a phase. I no a ton of people who went through the college party scene and now are professionals.
It NEVER crossed my mind that it would come back to haunt us...
And then he tells me that he NEVER has stopped using socially. For over 15 years! REally!!!
It's amazing how long you can live with someone and "not know them"
No offense. But consider yourself lucky that you found out when you did...
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You misunderstood me as well. My point wasn't that I have no control over my choices now as an adult because of the family I was born into. My point was I simply had no control over being born into a family of addicts and how am I supposed to be held accountable for "choosing" my addicted family members? It's not my fault they are addicts.
I can, however, choose who I get involved with in the future and that is why I'm here, so that I don't make the same destructive choices in intimate relationships and partners who are addicts.
I can, however, choose who I get involved with in the future and that is why I'm here, so that I don't make the same destructive choices in intimate relationships and partners who are addicts.
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Blueholly,
I feel your pain and I'm so sorry you had to go through this especially with children involved. Very sorry. I sit here crying over my situation and reading yours is sad as well. I'm glad you are on your way. I've just started the road....
Big hugs
I feel your pain and I'm so sorry you had to go through this especially with children involved. Very sorry. I sit here crying over my situation and reading yours is sad as well. I'm glad you are on your way. I've just started the road....
Big hugs
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Originally Posted by dasiydoc
Our relationship has been good despite his drug use
Originally Posted by dasiydoc
My boyfriend never stole from me, cheated on me, or lied to me about anything other than drug use that I can look back and see.
Originally Posted by dasiydoc
what would your ex say about you and your codependent behavior, and how it affected things?
Originally Posted by dasiydoc
I think there is evidence that lying goes along with addiction. But it happens because to an addict drugs become part of their survival mechanism.
Originally Posted by dasiydoc
What I think is other lies outside of addiction issues, are more closely attached to a persons character.
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Originally Posted by blackandblue
Key word- despite (so his drugging does adversely impact your relationship)
That you know of yet
This questions is odd. Hmm, I wonder what my AXBF thought when I tried countless times to encourage him to seek recovery, the countless times I forgave him. The countless times I believed his BS. If he ever found recovery- he would probably say thank you for letting me go so I could finally hit bottom and not thank you for staying and enabling me and contributing to my addiction. What would your boyfriend say about your codependent behavior?
There is evidence that most addicts lie to protect their addiction and themselves. It's not a thinking matter. It's a matter of fact. So because they lie to survive in your opinion, that makes the lying okay?
So you believe addicts are allowed to lie and it does not reflect on them as a person. Where as non-addicts lies are character defects. Please don't spread that message on this forum. All due respect you are in a new relationship and are not out of the woods, so to speak. But maybe, you are the one exception. Take care.
That you know of yet
This questions is odd. Hmm, I wonder what my AXBF thought when I tried countless times to encourage him to seek recovery, the countless times I forgave him. The countless times I believed his BS. If he ever found recovery- he would probably say thank you for letting me go so I could finally hit bottom and not thank you for staying and enabling me and contributing to my addiction. What would your boyfriend say about your codependent behavior?
There is evidence that most addicts lie to protect their addiction and themselves. It's not a thinking matter. It's a matter of fact. So because they lie to survive in your opinion, that makes the lying okay?
So you believe addicts are allowed to lie and it does not reflect on them as a person. Where as non-addicts lies are character defects. Please don't spread that message on this forum. All due respect you are in a new relationship and are not out of the woods, so to speak. But maybe, you are the one exception. Take care.
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Hang in there Jodie, It sounds like you have a great start on getting a handle on this. I to am 40 yo. My last first husband was an A. And I have just come to the harsh realization that I have married 2 addicts in a row!
Although they are 2 completely different people! They are not...
So I have begun the excruciating process of working on WHY I did this. Married 2 in a row.
I realized last night that it is not fun working on myself when the tough questions come. But I feel like I need to do this because if I don't I will just end up with another addict...
Or at this point, maybe no one at all. That's not what I want but I have to learn to make better choices and boundaries. Learn to trust people again.
I just filed for divorce this week. It sucks.. But I need to fix me, for me, and my kids.. I owe it to my kids. I kinda feel a little guilty though. I just cried all week. Like I am the one who has done this to my kids. I am sorry that I have put them through another divorce.... It was my choice to marry this man, and start a family with him...not there's they are the really innocent ones.
Anyway, it's hard, I know exactly what you are going through. I know how hard it is to face all this crap! It sucks... And I know that you are in serious pain. Just know that there are people out there in the same boat with you.
Dont give up on YOU!
Hugs
Although they are 2 completely different people! They are not...
So I have begun the excruciating process of working on WHY I did this. Married 2 in a row.
I realized last night that it is not fun working on myself when the tough questions come. But I feel like I need to do this because if I don't I will just end up with another addict...
Or at this point, maybe no one at all. That's not what I want but I have to learn to make better choices and boundaries. Learn to trust people again.
I just filed for divorce this week. It sucks.. But I need to fix me, for me, and my kids.. I owe it to my kids. I kinda feel a little guilty though. I just cried all week. Like I am the one who has done this to my kids. I am sorry that I have put them through another divorce.... It was my choice to marry this man, and start a family with him...not there's they are the really innocent ones.
Anyway, it's hard, I know exactly what you are going through. I know how hard it is to face all this crap! It sucks... And I know that you are in serious pain. Just know that there are people out there in the same boat with you.
Dont give up on YOU!
Hugs
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Why is water wet
why is air clear
why are there mosquitos
why doesn't super glue stick to the tube
why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways
why why why ~ knowing why does little to solve the problem and less to help find a solution
my sponsor said you ask the wrong questions - instead of why ask how, what, or where?
How is this working for YOUR life
What are your choices
What if nothing changes
Where do want to see yourself - in 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, . . .
and then
Why aren't you doing something to change your life - don't you see you are worth it?
Just my e, s, and h ~
Please take what you like and leave the rest
pink hugs
why is air clear
why are there mosquitos
why doesn't super glue stick to the tube
why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways
why why why ~ knowing why does little to solve the problem and less to help find a solution
my sponsor said you ask the wrong questions - instead of why ask how, what, or where?
How is this working for YOUR life
What are your choices
What if nothing changes
Where do want to see yourself - in 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, . . .
and then
Why aren't you doing something to change your life - don't you see you are worth it?
Just my e, s, and h ~
Please take what you like and leave the rest
pink hugs
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Posts: 311
Nope not going to shoot you Lily but am curious what it is supposed to mean and why you responded to my post in this manner. Clearly, you want some kind of reaction. Is it intended toward me or toward the entire post? I wrote this before there was a slew of posts regarding another poster that was dismissing lies as more tolerable from addicts because they are addicts. I thinks it's pretty relevant to the original post as there have been a few posts suggesting that Jodie caused the behavior of her AXBF or somehow addicts deserve special treatment because they are addicts. Nonsense. With all due respect, I am confused. Please, I ask only respond if you can use words and not graphics. I don't understand innuendos very well.
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When I first came to this site (a mere week ago) I was feeling people understood me and were offering encouraging words and insight. Today went all to hell with some of these responses and I sat there reading them just feeling worse about my situation.
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