allforcnm

I commend your efforts to help your husband navigate the detox and rehab options. I did this for my husband a year ago, survived it, and have no regrets.

What you are going through with the detox center is ridiculous. It is not due to your husband, it is due to the staff. A decent detox center will work with you to coordinate his placement into a rehab. Their goal should be the overall care of the patient, and not to run them through like cattle. I am so sorry this is happening to you both.

In support of your efforts to help him, I just want to offer the reminder that people with drug addictions generally have many medical issues, and many psychiatric issues. They are not in the best condition to be handling their medical care, and making reasonable, rational decisions. Sure they might be able to pick a number out of a book, but this is not ordering pizza. There are very life altering decisions at stake.

I say this because my husband was not in condition to do these things. If anyone reads this and is unaware of the actual affects heroin/opiates has on the actual body I would suggest this for reference: Heroin | National Institute on Drug Abuse
Most people do not choose to become addicts, it happens due to the effect the drug has on the body.

I do understand family members get tired, and some have been through too much, and they are now done, and need to focus on themselves. But many of us can find balance, and offer assistance as we feel the need. We each have to make out own decisions, based on our individual needs, beliefs, etc. In the end, we each live alone with the decisions we make.

My husbands main drug was opiate based pain meds. I also wanted to slip in info on a non-addictive drug that was a great help to him in the beginning after his detox. If your husband has insurance, I would definetly research this with the doctor. Its called naltrexone (aka Vivitrol). You can google it, Vivitrol also has its own informational website. If you have questions on it, then feel free to send me a note.

Prayers for both of you.

Vale

MIB wroteamn this is hard. I wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy.

(Nor would I,MIB)

Vale

laurie6781

You probably do not know it, but the Salvation Army runs an EXCELLENT Rehab program of 6 to 9 months, that has really good results with those that WANT recovery, and it is FREE.

However, the hook is that your husband must call them, set up the interview appointment, show up for the appointment, and show that he wants recovery.

Rehab whether paid for by insurance or free as from the SA is only going to give the A, 'tools' that he MUST use daily to learn how to live a sober and clean life.

I hope and pray and am sending healing thoughts and prayers your way, that you find a program for yourself and work and live the program you would like to see your husband work and live.

Have you tried Naranon, or Alanon (many times there are a lot more Alanon meetings in an area than Naranon and it is the same program), or some one on one counseling for yourself?

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.

Love and hugs,

Kindeyes

Hi MIB.....well.....you've had a hellava day. I hope that the morning finds things a bit more manageable.......

The thing that is so difficult is that we can navigate the system. We can make their calls. We can find the right programs. But the insanity of addiction is.....we can't make them go. We can't make them want to get clean. And sometimes, when we are forcing solutions, it has the absolute opposite effect of the desired outcome. It becomes a tug-o-war, a clash of wills. And that process becomes a status quo.

This is the insanity that we, as loved ones, live with........it's a level of anxiety that your post clearly demonstrates.......and I agree with you......I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I'm not going to pretend to know enough about your specific situation to tell you what you need to do. But I do want to gently suggest that you consider doing something to make your own life more manageable. Anything. Whatever that looks like for you..... For me it was Nar-Anon......I began to work a program of recovery for myself that I wished my son would work. I threw all of the energy that I had been expending on trying to control my son's addiction......and turned it inward.

I lived the insanity for about 15 years. I did all of the loving support, helping to navigate programs, chasing the addict as ferociously as the addict chased his high......and all the while the disease progressed......from smoking pot.....to heavy drinking......to this drug and that drug.....until my son landed in the world of meth and heroin. I did everything, I tried everything.......we financed four treatment programs through this process. And I finally had to give up.......it was him or me. Chasing the addict was killing me and financially draining us. I didn't give up on my son......I gave up the chase. I just didn't have it in me anymore. I love my son. I just said....when you're ready, I'll help you but until you're ready.....I'll stand back and let you live the way you're living.......but you can't do it here in my home. I can't have a front row seat to your death. And yes......I knew that there was a very real possibility that he could die.

That is the hardest thing for a mother to do.......to let go.......accepting that he could die from this disease. But I found peace within myself.....I had to.....

Four months ago he came to me for help. I handed him a piece of paper that I had carried in my purse for months--it had the phone number and address of the Salvation Army Adult Rehab Center on it.....and I handed him my phone. And that is where he has been for the last four months.

This process can take 15 years, like it did in our case, or it can take months. While he continued to chase the high, I began to take care of myself and my needs. I hope you'll make the opportunity to take care of your needs too.

I hope you are able to get him into a program that will help him.....but if you aren't, that isn't your failure. It isn't his failure.......it is the ugly facts of drug addiction. It is a disease.

You and your dear husband will be in my prayers.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

Ann

Oh sweetie, I recognize your frustration and exhaustion because that's exactly how it was when I tried to "help" my son. I ran in circles trying to find the answers "he" needed...then watched him discard them and find his own way only when he was ready.

After years of fighting all this, I learned a very valuable lesson. I should not do for another what they can and should do for themselves.

Detox can help your husband connect with a program if he really wants one. All he has to do is ask.

Detox is busy taking care of patients, they don't have time to have discussions and quarrels with families. They are there to help him.

You can find peace too...just let go of the need to control this. Set your boundaries firm of what you will accept in your life and what you will not, prepare to enforce them and then let go of trying to control the outcome.

As Kindeyes said, the Salvation Army has an excellent long term program that doesn't cost anything. They just ask that you be willing.

I hope you find your peace in all this before you go crazy trying to fix what is not yours to fix.

Hugs

MadInBoston

allforcnm, you expressed perfectly what it is that I'm trying to do. It doesn't even matter if he wants to stay with me, I just can't sit back and watch him flounder because I know he's not in a normal mental state and has not been for months or even years. We've been together for 7 years, I can't give up on him just because he put me through some hell. I certainly wouldn't walk away if he had cancer or some other dire illness. What makes substance abuse so difficult to deal with is the damned lying! I agree about the co-existing psych issues, my husband has also been dealing with depression, much of it stemming from his life which is slowly spinning out of control.

He called me just a little while ago. He was originally going to be discharged today, but he told me that he's going to stay for the 28-day program. (I thought it was 30, whatever.) I told him that I'm very happy for him that he's going to get extended treatment. But when I asked him if it was an inpatient program he said he didn't know. He then admitted that he isn't actually in the program but he wants to get into it. I told him that the staff had told me yesterday that he never requested to stay longer than 72 hours, and he said "I just requested it this morning". (sigh) While I was on the phone with him he asked the staff how to get into the program. They asked him when he had initially checked in, he told them Saturday, and then they told him he'll be on standby. I guess there's a wait list, I didn't feel like getting into it any further. I told him that if he can't get into their program to let me know because I can set him up for an assessment at a clinic near our condo for treatment covered by our insurance. He said "OK, it's good to know I've got a backup".

I would love to believe him, but the months of lying prevent me from doing so. I told him that I need him to be honest with me, "Please don't lead me on". He promised he wouldn't. He said he's had much opportunity to think and discuss in there, he feels awful that he hurt me and he wants to be a better man. I asked him if he'd rather be on his own to make things easier for himself, and he told me he wants to stay with me. I told him that I need some relief on my end, that I don't want him to lie to me just to buy some time, that it will make things worse if he tells me one thing and does another. He again promised that he would be honest.

At the end of the call he said the program manager was walking in and he would ask him about entering the 28-day program. I told my husband to call me back when he knows what he's going to do.

So now I have to wait, which is always hard for me to do. While I wait I waffle between wanting out of this mess and wanting to be a loving and supportive wife. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. It's hard for me to want out if I have sympathy for him, but it's hard for me to be a loving and supportive wife if I view him as a chronic liar who doesn't give a crap what he does to other people. Which husband did I speak to today? The one I married, or the body-snatched cold-hearted selfish addict? At least he sounded better this morning than he did yesterday, so I'm not as worried any more that he's going to kill himself.

In the mean time, I'm continuing to prepare for the worst. The cell phones are in my name, I've already contacted customer service to find out what I need to do to suspend or terminate the number he's using. If he leaves that facility and disappears for any length of time, he will no longer be using a phone that I'm paying for, he'll have to get his own phone. The credit card he had in his wallet, also in my name, is already unusable. He has $110 or more if he didn't spend any of it on drugs before he checked in to detox. He has some money in the bank that he can withdraw if necessary, I haven't left him destitute so won't need to feel guilty about that. I'm here to help him if he needs it, but I will not support his habit, even indirectly.

AnvilheadII

i hope it works out. and i'm very glad you have a PLAN for any eventuality.

Kindeyes

deleted

allforcnm

When I was in the process with my husband, I also had no idea if we would end up being able to save our marriage. I had no idea if he would stay in treatment, or run. But what I did know is that he was very a very sick man. He needed professional help, and he needed it for a big chunk of time to have a chance.

I understand about the “lying” as I went through it with my husband too. The lying addict is not the same guy I married, but wait he is, but no he isn’t ! Depended on my mood and how big the lies were ! Now I understand that the lying is part of addiction. Its part of all the damage that happens to the person on an emotional level. It starts out I think as a way to protect their drug use, hide it, in their mixed up minds a way to prevent confrontation (like we wont catch on they are lying). But at some point, the longer it goes on, I think it becomes more of a learnt behavior. And it takes detox, and a lot of treatment to unlearn bad behaviors like that, and replace with healthy ones.

I used to research things while my husband was in active addiction to prepare myself for what might come with him. I had never had any experience with this type of thing, and didnt understand fully the impact drugs have on a person, knew nothing about detox methods, or rehabs and all that.

What I have since learned, based on factual evidence, is that initial treatment can have a huge impact. If you look at sites like Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration (SAMHSA), or the National Institute on Drug Abuse, or even the American Medical Society they have many guidelines for treatment based on the stage of disease. It needs to cover detoxing, retraining behaviors, working on factors that may have contributed to the persons drug use in the beginning like abuse issues, other medical conditions if they exist like depression, or bipolar. It has to look at what each person needs, and provide that type of specific care.

Those sites estimate one third of all people will recover (no relapses) after their first attempt with treatment if it meets their needs, and they see it through.

They also estimate another one third will need multiple treatments due to relapse, but eventually they will also end their use.

The last one third, they will die of various causes, still addicted.

For me, that's the proof I need to believe proper treatment is crucial. We can't control their decision to embrace treatment, stay in treatment, we can't make what they learn stick. But based on our relationship, if we are so inclined we can put forth effort to make sure they have the opportunity for good medical care. That is what I did, and I can tell that is what you are also doing. I didn’t support my husbands active addiction either, in fact we separated for a while. But I did support his efforts of recovery because that is what I felt I needed to do. My mom always told me, wherever you go there you are. Meaning stay true to myself and I will always have comfort knowing I did what was right for me. That is all any of us can do, stay true to our own beliefs.

I agree with what you are saying about it being similar to something like cancer, and how as a wife would you respond to this. Someone on another thread was posting about this recently, and talking about how wives/caregivers in those situations are viewed differently, and it is true. Some of the issues are different, but some are very similar. They have some very serious struggles where it is obvious their own lives are falling apart, their finances, their careers. Life is often unkind.

I hope your husband gets into the program there, or the one close to where you live. The longer the better I think. My husband did inpatient for 3 months. He continued with private therapy once he got out. Next month marks a year since he took that first step with detox.

LoveMeNow

MadinBoston - I know a person who went to McLean AT NAUKEAG and said it was a very impressive rehab. (not her first). She said it was a fairly young crowd, mostly addicted to heroin. Also, many of the residents were opting for the Vivitrol shot along with working a program.

She was given a prescription for Naltrexone (the pill form), however chose not to use it and is now several months sober. She highly recommends this rehab.

Also, the detox social worker help set up the stay. I think she detoxed at McLean's. Just wanted to share!

MadInBoston

Wow, after months of torture I think I'm finally gaining control of my situation. Maybe not my husband's situation, but mine. I had moments of clarity today and tonight I feel quite sane and competent.

My husband is trying to make important decisions but he's not capable of making them right now. He told me he wanted to go into the 28-day program which initially sounded great to me, but later it dawned on me that he probably didn't research the cost. When he called me this afternoon and I asked him about insurance coverage he said "they're looking into it". I don't want to wait to find out, and then it occurred to me that there's no way I'm going to tolerate 28 more days of dealing with the people at that facility, not being able to talk to my husband when I need to, etc. Sorry, but DENIED. I told him that he needs to do an outpatient program which is guaranteed to be covered by our insurance, one that I had researched yesterday. He didn't protest at all. I think he could hear the confidence in my voice, a confidence I haven't had in a long time. I'm ready to leave him, and he knows it.

I asked my husband to call me later, but just in case he won't or can't call, I called the facility AGAIN and asked them to let my husband know that he has a 1pm appointment tomorrow and that he needs to call me to get the location. I also had the facility confirm that my husband is not signed up for the 28-day program and ensure that he will be discharged tomorrow early enough to make it to his appointment.

And for the first time in a very long time, instead of crying or feeling like I'm half-dead, I did what I used to do when forced to deal with an unpleasant situation. I swore. It's a good sign.

I don't know if my marriage is going to survive. I do know that I have my husband's best interests at heart, but I am also doing what I need to do to help myself as well.

This might sound selfish, but I think he was getting too comfy at that detox facility. He was babied there, no responsibilities, everything done for him in there by the staff, and everything done for him out here by me. All he had to do was go through some withdrawal symptoms (he's done it before) and obsess about his problem. What a great life! No wonder he wanted to stay there longer. Meanwhile, I was struggling greatly, feeling like I was about to have a complete and total breakdown but I had to pick myself up and go to work every day (with red and swollen eyes), pay bills and do other routine chores, and deal with the aftermath of what he had done FOR MONTHS. I know my husband is an addict, I know he needs help, but he's a mature adult and he's my husband and I cannot be with him if he's going to act like a child.

Oh baby, I think I have reached a turning point, and it's fantastic.

MadInBoston

Apparently my husband has reached a turning point too. No more than 5 minutes after posting my last message, he called. He got the message about the appointment and he will be out in time to make it. He's going to come by the condo to shower and change clothes. I trust that this clinic will assess him properly and put him into the correct program. It's close by, walking distance! I don't think he'll be working for a while, the new job he was supposed to start yesterday may still be open to him but maybe not, he might have to start over again. But I'm OK with him taking time off so he can participate in whatever programs the clinic sets up for him. Some are full-day for several weeks, that sounds good to me.

I realize that just because things are looking a bit brighter right now doesn't mean that we won't have crises down the road, but I am in a much better state right now than I've been in in a long time. Dang, I should have come here a lot sooner! I could have used this forum months ago when I first realized what was going on!

LoveMeNow

With all due respect, I do not think detox is an easy experience at all.

Also, again with all due respect, I strongly disagree with "the best money can buy" medical care. IMO, it all has to do with whether the pain of using outweighs the fear of stopping. It has to be the addicts decision, need and desire. I have met many who have "recovered" that weren't not helped by anyone or had the opportunity for "the best." They just "WANTED and NEEDED" to be clean.

Justfor1

mad, detox is still very stressful even when the addict does have people helping them with day to day tasks.

lovemenow, I think money does make a difference in the outcome of some addicts. Not having money & lacking job skills or education leads to extra stress which lead to relapse. Also, some of the state run rehabs & detox are sub par. Some even lack a comfortable bed & patients are required to sleep on the floor. They will only give Tylenol for the aches & pains when the addict is going threw serious pain.

LoveMeNow

Well, I am not going to debate this with you as you and I strongly disagree on most subjects like suing the interlock systems, money stolen from an AA meeting, etc, etc, etc.

Lily1918

agreed. I haVE been in the room for natural childbirth and I dare say that watching detox was far worse. I make that comparison because it is like birthing a new person. I have given birth without pain medication, and I would rather deliver a thousand babies that way than to ever go through one detox.

incitingsilence

Allforcnm
I don’t agree with any of the above…

I especially love the they aren’t in the best condition to handle their medical care and make responsible rational decision….Ok, look around, the families desperate, over reactive, fearful, quite insane in their own special way insane are?

And that last line.
Is the one making those life altering decisions the one who should be … or are they just taking the learning away?
Or even a better question. For the one making that life altering decision for the addict, who are they really making the decision for themselves or the addict in their life?

Mad in Boston…

Please if you at all want him to have a chance stop interfering. He has proved he was capable already of finding an option and that detox was willing to help once he opened HIS mouth and put something on the table. That is how it is suppose to work. If the place didn’t take your insurance they would have helped him find another.
This isn’t about you. So what you can’t talk to him, that is how it should be because in treatment he needs to totally focus on him….and while away and safe the thinking is that then the family has time to work on them.

Interfering brings nothing good.


And wd. I have very strong opinions about in home detox because I have been there done that and don‘t find many families equipped to deal with it. And yet on the flip side I do not think any heroin addict should kick without someone at least checking on them frequently. Mainly because that 3-5 day flu was a lie…and no one mentioned the hallucinations. WTF, that was different for me. My husband was still sick 21 days in, physically the kicks, the chills, the spiders in the blood were all still there, he maybe by then was getting 2 hours of sleep a night. Sure made sense why he relapsed, thank god his doctor was awesome and he was honest and made that call as soon as he did…and thank god for sub which I know helped him save his life.

allforcnm

Inciting,

Here is an interesting thread that was posted recently about family members using “Professional Intervention” to talk their loved ones into entering treatment.

A brief summary, it was written by a person who has worked with hundred’s of family members to intervene with their drug addicted loved ones. This would be where family with the help of an interventionist, picks an inpatient rehab by doing research to look at the quality of care, pricing, insurance acceptance, location, etc. Then they actually coordinate everything necessary to get their loved one admitted, and sent to their destination - right down to travel arrangements and a packed bag. All the addicted person has to do is agree.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-we-love.html

Family intervenes all the time. It can work as well, or better than any other method at helping the addicted person get access to proper medical care.

I have no regrets over assisting my husband. He would also tell you how much he appreciated my help during that period of his life. But all that matters to me, is that my husband got proper care. He latched onto recovery and he has not let go. He did the work himself. He is my husband again, and a great father to our little boy. He is happy and healthy. That is what its all about.

Lily1918

I have been sitting on my hands about this.... but... the heroin addict in my life is a liar and a manipulative creature. He is no better than any other addict. He could relapse or say "screw recovery. I like getting high. Im gonna go pick up" at any time.

BUT ....

HE picked up the phone and called the Salvation Army. No ultimatums.
HE played the runaround with the admitting desk and screamed at them to let him in in hysterics, saying if he didn't get into treatment he would die.
HE made it happen.
HE was suicidal during withdrawl.
HE prayed to god for help
HE goes to his meetings
HE works HIS program.

I give him cigarettes. I gave him a bed... on the balcony... a sleeping bag actually. I give him the gifts of space, respect, and a select amount of time. nothing more.
he has $5 to his name.
he does not have health insurance.
he puts his feet on the floor and his hands to the piano instead of the tray every day.
I did nothing to get him into treatment.
I can do nothing to make him stay
I cannot keep the dragon from his mouth. He will chase it if he wants to.
just my expierience with heroin, detox, treatment, rescuing, and helping.
take what you want and leave the rest, but this is what worked for me. His decision. His life to throw away, not mine. can't control, can't fix.

I don't think I have any other expierience than to Say staying out of it worked for me. No other hope than God loves me and life will go on even if he ODs tomorrow. no other strength than to say really and truthfully.... its not my problem. His dragon to slay... since when do maidens slay dragons anyway!?!?

incitingsilence

Allforcnm how did talk of intervention get into this thread? I went and read it and you didn’t do a professional intervention with your husband, so…I don’t know do you think that you and the family confronting him helped saved him cause he agreed to go? That he wouldn’t have been able to find help himself or be able to make a choice to see out his own help?

That article used bottom as a means to cause fear. In looking honestly at what could be of an addicts bottom everyone in the room will have to evaluate how they participated in that bottom. Or more so how they removed it, cushioned it, fixed it, interfered with it….and that isn’t about blame, that is about learning.

Intervention is big business and does have it’s place in the mix of treatment. But taking this thread and somehow trying to link it to the one with that article makes no sense. And again it removes the addicts as being responsible and capable …. This poor, poor, pitiful, sick, mentally ill mentality has to go and is demeaning and was present in some responses in that thread.

I do find it so sad how many view the addict in their lives as incapable. Talk about chaining someone.

And you know how cool would it be if instead of the ultimatums and all that comforting of their behavior….that we took those letters one would write and it would be about addressing our own behavior and what we will be doing for ourselves in terms of getting well rather then threats of what we wouldn’t be doing or promises of what we would for them dependent upon whether they went or not.

Sundays’ child wrote…
“Our interventionist told us that the most important purpose of intervention was to start the family on the road to recovery...that the measure of "success" was not whether the addict chose to go to treatment, or to stay sober, but to change the family dynamics.”
Now that is the most healthy thing I have read in a while. And gives me much hope.

But this one is sick…
“Family intervenes all the time. It can work as well, or better than any other method at helping the addicted person get access to proper medical care.”

If no one ever told you we are not here for them, we are here to address our behavior. Nothing has to do with them and never has, never will.