Lifelong Codependent

Old 03-22-2013, 03:17 PM
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Lifelong Codependent

I am bringing this question over from another thread because I think Julez brought up a really interesting question in another thread.

Quoted by Julez: Listening to many say that they are "lifelong codependents" have left me questioning whether or not I have always had the tendencies, or if my daughter truly brought them out in me. Very interesting, wish I knew how to figure it out!
The beginning of my codependency looked like this:

I couldn't stand seeing anyone or anything get hurt. I couldn't even watch a lion catch a gazelle on TV for instance......it was too painful for me to watch.

I was very defensive on behalf of anything "weaker". I came to the rescue to save them.....because I thought they couldn't save themselves.

I would act out to get in more trouble if my brothers got in trouble to divert my parent's attention.....I would rather be spanked than listen to my brothers get spanked and cry.

I always thought I was "nice" but sometimes I wasn't.....I was simply defensive.

I prided myself in "feeling" everything that others around me felt. I thought it was a "good" thing and that I was particularly "gifted". lol. Little did I realize that I WAS a particularly gifted codependent.

I would also pride myself in anticipating a person's needs.....delivering to them what I suspected they might need before they had a chance to verbalize it.

I often felt like a "victim".....when in truth......I was really a volunteer who just didn't understand I had choices to change things.

My heart was always in the right place but it was waaaaay too tender.

I always wanted to smooth things over........even if it was to force the conflict to the surface just to get it behind us.

I was sometimes quick to anger and quick to judge.....particularly if things didn't meet my standards of "fair".

I had a pretty huge ego. I thought I could do things better for other people than they could do for themselves.....and I was happy to help.

I had opinions......and I was quick to share them......particularly if I thought someone was waaaay off base.

I would become pretty darn bitter if someone didn't appreciate all of the nice things I did for them.....even if they didn't ask me to do them in the first place.

I was sensitive.....to an extreme......I took everything personally. Someone was mad. It was my fault. Someone was hurting. It was my fault. Someone felt wounded....I must have done something.

I usually felt guilty or shamed about something.

I couldn't say No.......easily.

I had few boundaries and those that I had were very weak and could easily be tread on.

I always felt unloved or under-loved....and undeserving of love.

I always put my needs dead last.......and then was resentful about it.

I reminded myself of the dog that would get kicked over and over and over again but go back with my tail wagging.....just to get kicked again. And I couldn't figure out that I didn't need to go back and I certainly didn't need to wag my tail.

**********************************
Well....there you have it. Confessions of a lifelong codependent.....and pretty much a public Fourth Step. lol These are just the behaviors that I could think of right off the top of my head. I'm sure I could go on and on and on....this is just the tip of the iceberg. These are behaviors that I can recollect having even as a small child......therefore....I do believe that my codependent tendencies were always there....not dormant but quite active. They simply got blown WAY up when my son began using drugs.

It feels pretty darn good to be honest with myself and others.....and be able to laugh at myself. It doesn't threaten me in any way. It is actually quite liberating. That's what Fourth Step stuff is all about.

I hope that helps anyone who is wondering......am I a lifelong codependent? Am I a codependent now? What does a fourth step look like?

So.....as you can see.......I had (and have) a lot of work to do on myself. It keeps me busy. I shouldn't have time to go snooping around in anyone else's inventory. lol

Julez......hope that answers your question.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:49 PM
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Whoa, KE....

I think I have a lot to think about.

My personality has always been to be the bigger person, and don't engage in conflict. I was bullied in school. I can't watch ANY movies at all, aside from comedies. Action, scary, love stories, or anything else that made me feel ANYTHING, were too much for me.

I am VERY sensitive, especially when it comes to my 2 teenagers. A therapist once said to me "I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a teenager, who is all over the place, dealing with growing up, in charge of MY moods". Their words and actions hurt me to the core. You see, I don't like my mother, felt very ignored by her, and always wanted to be a mother, sure that I could do it better.

That being said, my son, who is 16, I wake up every morning, and while he's in the shower, I make his breakfast, and when he sits down in the chair to watch ESPN, I deliver him his breakfast, and beverage.

I DEFINITELY did, and continue to do things for my kids that they can do for themselves....

Hmmm.. thinking back though...

I remember once my parents were fighting. I was probably about 10 or 11. I was outside in the neighbors yard playing and heard them yelling. I went home, sure that if I was there the fighting would end. It did for a little while and I felt safe so I went back, and it started again. So I sat in the treehouse and cried. I remember hearing my mother tell my father that night after I was in bed, that she was upset because he had choked her....

Trying to control that situation....does that deem me a child codependent?

My dad that I spoke of, is actually my stepdad. He adopted me at 5. My bio father was in my life (sometimes) and was ok with it, which is a whole different story...
Whenever my bio dad called, and I spoke with him, as young as 6, I remember feeling so guilty. After the call I'd climb into my (dads) lap and say I love you dad. Don't be sad. I didn't want him to be jealous, or hurt that I tried to be nice to my bio dad.

Codependent? Trying to control others emotions? This is the most rambling, all over post I have ever shared. I apologize.

Any response or insight will help me find my way to recovery.

Thanks KindEyes, for starting this. I hope we can help a lot of others while sharing ESH
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:05 PM
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Wow. I really like this thread. Co-dependency was one of my issues before, I guess I had a re-lapse with my current ex. I remember the tug of war of "look at all I do for you" and "why won't you love me?"' and in that I forgot I am powerless over other people's actions.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:38 PM
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"I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a teenager, who is all over the place, dealing with growing up, in charge of MY moods"
I love that.......

Julez
Bringing up all of the specifics of the whys I was/am the way I was/am was a very painful process (boy.....that was an awkward statement).....but it was extremely cathartic because I was able to let things go little by little. I did this process with a very loving sponsor who never judged me.....she always gently encouraged me.....and I love her so very much for that.

I think it's important to remember that being codependent is just one little piece of who I am but it does not define my entire being. And I am empowered to change all of those things that I listed. I love myself. I am not perfect but love me....warts and all. I have a whole list of wonderfully good qualities too.....and some of them are the same as those on the list above.....just stated a little differently. And the best thing that has come of my own self exploration.....is that I can laugh.....I find humor in things that I never thought I'd find humor in. I use to take myself waaaaaay too seriously......I use to cringe or hide if I made a mistake......I would be so humiliated and I'd hope no one else would notice....I was pathetically perfectionist. And now......I can LAUGH....a deep from the bottom of my belly laugh! Because the human condition is often very humorous.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:10 PM
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I appreciate this thread. The honesty and especially the humor...

For the record I have been codependent since childhood. I remember when I was about five being asked what I wanted to be when I grew up and I said I wanted to be a maid like Hazel. I am 54 so if you are younger than that you probably don't remember Hazel. She played the resident maid in a sit com popular in the 60's. Her bedroom was off the kitchen and all she did was serve and take care of that family. That was my dream job. A live in maid with a bedroom off the kitchen.

My codependency mushroomed and morphed into a way of life that literally almost killed me when I was faced with my children's addictions. No matter what I did I just couldn't fix it.

The first time my daughter was in rehab it was recommended that I attend AlAnon so I did. Anythng to help her...lol.

I also had the privilege of attending some open AA meetings at the time and that is where I came to the realization that I needed help. I was sitting in a meeting one day and realized I am just like them. Just like the addicts and alcoholics, only my addiction is trying to fix people.

I realized that my only chance of survival was to work those 12 steps with the raw honesty and dogged determination that I witnessed in those AA's. No more "I am here because my daughter has a drug problem." The glaring reality is that I am here because I have a problem and it has become unmanageable. The AA's were and still are a tremendous inspiriation to me.

I don't exaggerate when I say the 12 steps saved my life. They keep me balanced and sane and have so enriched my life.

Thanks again for this thread...
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:53 PM
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Wow, Kindeyes, what a thought provoking thread you have shared.

You could have been describing me, with your posting, pretty much.

I am just , sad to admit this, finding out how big a problem codependency is.

The older I get, the less good it feels.

I think my codependent behavior started as soon as I began to try to be different than my self-centered, alcoholic parents. I think it was my mission to be everything that they were not, even in parenting. Which was good to a degree, but now I see how it only gets worse, the more my children grew up, the more I wanted to make them feel they still needed me. Ugh, this isn't easy to admit, is it?

I wanted the world to think I was a good person, caring and fair. I am far too sensitive, and always ready to defend someone who is being unfairly treated. Sometimes that is ok, but sometimes it was obvious I was doing something that they should have done for themselves.

I find I have some anger, because this has not brought the happy ending I thought it would someday.

I am having to learn how to live, what to do, how to be happy with the boundaries that must be respected-theirs AND MINE. Because this is a family disease- this codependency-just like alcoholism affects the whole family. I thought if I did not drink, that I had survived the mess. Little did I realize that I left with baggage that would weigh me down for my whole life.

I am wondering if I even know who I really am?

Thank you, for sharing, and for reading this. It truly is progressive, just like alcoholism, if you don't learn better.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:29 PM
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Kindeyes, you are describing EXACTLY how I have been a large part of my life. I have to laugh at "I would become pretty darn bitter if someone didn't appreciate all of the nice things I did for them.....even if they didn't ask me to do them in the first place." This caused a lot of problems for me even in friendships.

I do also realise that it does not describe me anymore. Somewhere along the line I lost my co-dependency. The flip side of the coin is that I sometimes look at myself and wonder when I became so hard, so I guess somewhere within I still think co-dependency is a good thing. I also noticed how few people I am still friends with from those years. I used to be friends with people who I either felt sorry for or who I felt inferior towards. Nowadays my friendships are on a more equal basis.

But your list? Yes, that was me down to the last statement.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:35 AM
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I couldn't stand seeing anyone or anything get hurt. I couldn't even watch a lion catch a gazelle on TV for instance......it was too painful for me to watch.

I was very defensive on behalf of anything "weaker". I came to the rescue to save them.....because I thought they couldn't save themselves.

I always thought I was "nice" but sometimes I wasn't.....I was simply defensive.

I prided myself in "feeling" everything that others around me felt. I thought it was a "good" thing and that I was particularly "gifted". lol. Little did I realize that I WAS a particularly gifted codependent.

I would also pride myself in anticipating a person's needs.....delivering to them what I suspected they might need before they had a chance to verbalize it.

I often felt like a "victim".....when in truth......I was really a volunteer who just didn't understand I had choices to change things.

My heart was always in the right place but it was waaaaay too tender.

I always wanted to smooth things over........even if it was to force the conflict to the surface just to get it behind us.

I had a pretty huge ego. I thought I could do things better for other people than they could do for themselves.....and I was happy to help.

I was sensitive.....to an extreme......I took everything personally. Someone was mad. It was my fault. Someone was hurting. It was my fault. Someone felt wounded....I must have done something.

I usually felt guilty or shamed about something.

I couldn't say No.......easily.

I had few boundaries and those that I had were very weak and could easily be tread on.

I always felt unloved or under-loved....and undeserving of love.

I always put my needs dead last.......and then was resentful about it.

I reminded myself of the dog that would get kicked over and over and over again but go back with my tail wagging.....just to get kicked again. And I couldn't figure out that I didn't need to go back and I certainly didn't need to wag my tail.
Wow, Kindeyes. I have never read a list of things that more aptly described specific things that were my identical behavior also. I deleted a few before quoting you that weren't exactly the way I was when I was growing up...but these here above were just like shocking to me how accurate they were in describing me.

Recognizing my own codependency - and the extent of it - is really quite shocking.

In many ways I see how these things were developed in me over time based on reinforcements I got from outside of me, but on another level, it feels like I came off the shelf this way and just have a propensity for this way of relating to others and myself -- as if it was factory installed, so to speak. BORN THIS WAY as Lady Gaga would say.

At times I feel overwhelmed with how defective I am in terms of living a mature, responsible, healthfully self-oriented/self-focused way...

In other moments I have compassion for myself...

And then I have to come back to this powerlessness work I've been sitting with...

I am powerless over the events of my past that have contributed to my codependency -- both in terms of things that others have done and how I have reacted to those situations...

And I am also powerless in terms of the degree God has chosen for me to experience this codependency up until this point.

In one of the Al Anon readers, one of the passages talked about how this woman found compassion for her alcoholic father when she realized that as a boy, he was not thinking, "I hope I grow up to be an alcoholic." That it was not something that anyone would choose for themselves.

When she realized that he was powerless over alcohol and the disease of addiction in that way, she had more compassion.

I did not grow up thinking I wanted to be codependent.

I wouldn't consciously choose to be sick in this way that I am and have been for many years. It has created so much pain in my life!

But it is the condition that I have. I suffer from a bad case of codependency. And it's only going to get worse if I don't address it.

So I am trying my best to lovingly tend to it and untangle myself from the distorted thinking and perceptions that lead me to suffer as a result of it.

<deep breath>

Step 2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Yes.

Codependency may have made me insane, but I don't have to stay there. I can be restored to sanity by the grace of God and my willingness to turn my life and my will over the care of God.

Steps 1 2 and 3 are really so LOVELY!

Thank you for this thread and for the example of how a 4th step can look on this topic took.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:52 AM
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this post has really helped me. I have been feeling stuck on step four for quite some time and Im glad to see another perspective on it. talk about working step twelve! lol thanks kidneys
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:37 AM
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Omg... This thread is amazing.

These points describe me too, starting from the first point. I remember that I had been said for some weeks after watching a loin ate a baby deer on tv...

And my ex is opposite. He went hunting and could even took a picture of himself and the dying deer together...
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:02 AM
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Dissection of these behaviors takes it to a deeper level.

I couldn't stand seeing anyone or anything get hurt. I couldn't even watch a lion catch a gazelle on TV for instance......it was too painful for me to watch.
Some might say....heck that's not a character defect....it IS hard to watch a lion hunt and kill a gazelle. That's not the point.....it was my inability to accept this as a part of nature and the life cycle and putting this very natural (and imperative) activity in perspective. I related to it in human terms. I couldn't watch because I was unable to detach. It has a lot to do with detachment and acceptance.

I was very defensive on behalf of anything "weaker". I came to the rescue to save them.....because I thought they couldn't save themselves.
Again.....this doesn't sound so bad, right? I definitely feel this way on behalf of animals and children....but those feelings can go viral if not kept in perspective. Hoarding (animal) is an example of this gone viral (and no....I'm not a hoarder in any sense....but I understand how it can happen to someone). But it can also morph into something that makes others feel "disabled" rather than "enabled". So it can be a character defect and an asset.......it simply needs balance and is something to be mindful of.

I would also pride myself in anticipating a person's needs.....delivering to them what I suspected they might need before they had a chance to verbalize it.
Some might think.....well.....that's what I consider to be "being NICE". But it can be an EGO based action. Most often, I was doing it to gain their approval. And it's another thing that can go viral and become a huge negative. It's can fall on either side of the ledger as an asset or a character defect....depending where I am on that scale. Balance and mindfulness.

I often felt like a "victim".....when in truth......I was really a volunteer who just didn't understand I had choices to change things.
There are times people really are victims.....but for me....more often than not....I would be in situations (when I felt like a victim) that I had a choice about......I just wouldn't consider the options because they were unacceptable to me. Example: He treats me like crap....he victimizes me....but I can't leave him because (fill in the blank). I didn't leave my XAH for five years and endured emotional and psychological abuse because he said if I did....he'd kill himself. "Because I love him". "Because people would think I'm a failure". "God doesn't approve of divorce". "Because no one else will love me like he does". are some examples of other things that could go in the blank. I endured five years of suffering and "victimization" because I couldn't bear the thought of being "responsible" for my XAH's death. And as I've said often....he's still alive.....30 years later.

I always put my needs dead last.......and then was resentful about it.
This one's a doozie. Recognizing this one thing did more to get me into healthy thinking than most of the others combined. It is the epicenter of my codependence. It's has everything to do with Self care. There are times when I do put the needs of others ahead of my own needs.......it's the "and then was resentful about it" that was the negative. I will not put another's needs ahead of mine if it is going to evolve into my own resentment. (If someone else becomes resentful because I won't put their needs ahead of mine....they own that....I don't.)

Acknowledging codependence is not an admission of being some kind of worthless or deeply flawed being. It is (for me) a path towards self acceptance. It is acknowledging myself flaws and assets. Some people ARE NOT codependent. I am. It's not something I'm proud of but it's also nothing I'm ashamed of....it just is....and I can change what I acknowledge and strive to understand.

Glad this thread helped a few peeps.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:54 AM
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Hmmmm. You have been peeking into my life!
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:31 AM
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And my ex is opposite. He went hunting and could even took a picture of himself and the dying deer together...
Don't even get me started on hunting.....I understand why it is done......but had some bad experiences as a child. My Dad used to hold me tightly while he dressed out his kill (doves as I recall) and make me watch. I would cry and cry......he thought it was funny. And would hold me tighter while laughing as I struggled to get away. I'm sure he was trying to teach me something but I sure didn't get it at age five or six!

Hmmmm. You have been peeking into my life!
lol. Some comments in another thread got me thinking.....someone mentioned that they didn't appreciate being told that they were "sick" because their son was addicted. I don't want to imply that anyone is "sick"......not everyone is codependent but there's a good number who are. But I will say that some of my behaviors became quite sick as it relates to my son's addiction.....some of these early signs of my codependence contributed to those behaviors. I did all of the typical stuff....begging, pleading, crying, obsessing trying to get him to see what he was doing to himself, and some pretty impressive detective work. Addiction often leads to behaviors and reactions from loved ones that are unhealthy in the guise of being supportive. Enabling, rescuing, and succumbing to manipulations that escalate as the disease progresses are some examples of this. Recognizing our own interactions with the addict in our lives can help us provide the kind of support that is truly beneficial to them and does not sacrifice our own emotional, psychological, financial, and spiritual well being.

If anyone sees themselves in any of these behaviors, I just want to clarify that I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this forum......but hopefully it gives food for thought and an opportunity for some self exploration and self acceptance.

gentle hugs to my fellow codependents.....lol
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:57 PM
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I am thankful for this thread as well. You just described me to a T.

I am a codependent, and clearly, I have a lot to think about. Thank you so much for posting this.. I am so thankful there are other people out there who understand where I am coming from and how I feel!
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:28 PM
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What an amazing thread!!! Thank you!

So much of this I have identified in myself and have been piecing together for years. When the lightbulb comes on, there is no denying it...so I too am working towards recovery and healing. I will revisit this thread regularly when I stumble....which I do and will, but that's ok too....The lightbulb is on!

It could; maybe should be a stickie!
Thank you again!💝
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:51 AM
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I love this thread! I absolutely just learned I have been codependent ALL my life as a result of this thread.

When I was 7 my family moved to a new state. We had very little and my home life was very depressing and the state of our home was humiliating. I met a little girl neighbor who was 7 as well and I instantly bonded to her, not "with" her but "to" her. She had a lot of nice things: lots of pretty clothes, toys, inground pool, good food, and pretty long blonde hair. Her parents also took her on lavish trips. This little girl abused the hell out of me for years. She made fun of me, chastised me, manipulated me, lied to me, humiliated me and more. She'd hide food from me when I went to her house, she'd call me names and she'd make fun of me in front of others.

I allowed this abuse for one reason: I was getting a massive pay-off. That pay-off was being able to swim in her pool, play with her dolls, go on trips and use
her nice computer, etc. I would have rather gotten abused and stayed at her house with nice luxuries than to go to my own home and sit in depression in
a dark room with little food and an emotionally absent/abusive father. I learned codependence and accepted abuse at a very young age so I could get a pay-off. I stayed "friends" with her up until my 20's yet I never confronted her for all the abuse.

The irony in life is that I eventually grew up to be a better athlete, prettier, and had more friends and a better career. I also wound up on a national TV show and did runway modeling in Beverly Hills. Although karma (I guess you can say, or God) had worked in my favor later in life I was still that same ugly, poor, humiliated, beaten and shamed little girl on the inside and I continued to find men who would repeat the same behaviors to me in relationships as long
as I got my "pay-off." That pay-off could have been a nice looking, successful man or a big diamond or a professional athlete: anything that made me look better or feel better about myself by way of status and superficial things. Because inside I had something to prove! I wanted to prove to everyone (in my childhood) that I could get the best looking guy, the wealthiest, etc....yet they ALL abused me due to their addictions. But still, I accepted it because I had something to prove.

Very, very sick. I am sick. Now that I recognize this I will make a concerted effort to make healthier choices in my future. Thanks for listening to my rant. That was therapeutic
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:53 AM
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Thank you KE!!!!!!!!

You know in those first years of my recovery from alcoholism and drug use, after I did my 12 steps, I started to realize that I and others were just about everything you listed above, that we were EXTREMELY sensitive folks and that was probably one of the reasons for most of us to why we were using alcohol and/or drugs to NUMB ourselves.

Then as most of you know, on my 3rd AA Birthday, my sponsor strongly suggested actually said outright "I want you to get your butt to Alanon TODAY, and you are to get an Alanon sponsor. Well sheesh, I didn't need Alanon, not me, but the 'people pleaser' or rather 'sponsor pleaser' that I was at the time I went that day.

I found out at my very first meeting that one of the ladies I knew from my 'home group' was also in Alanon, a "double winner" and I asked her to be my Alanon sponsor and she agreed. Very quickly she had me start 'working' those 12 steps again, but this time from the 'Alanon perspective.'

It was then I started to see that in reality I had been a codependent from early age on, and that yes, not only did I 'self medicate' with the alcohol and drugs (found this out later) but I was definitely making myself as NUMB as possible so 'ALL' those things in life that made me want to 'protect and fix' others would go away. I am sure that is why I see more and more A's that are working a good program of recovery, start coming to Alanon meetings also, roflmao YEP, a lot of us A's are ALSO codependent! And not knowing how to handle that, we drink/use to get numb and ........pretty soon we have crossed that 'invisible line' into addiction.

I, and others, became very comfortable in the throes of our addiction and did not realize just how bad it was, even when others tried to tellus. We lived in an 'altered reality' and alcohol/drugs were our BFF above everyone else!!!

I have always stated that Alanon gave me a different perspective on those beautiful 12 steps and a more 'all encompassing view' of the 'principles' of those step, and how to live by those 'principles'.

By 'living' those principles on a daily basis I have gained 'balance' in my life and peace and serenity most of the time, lmao. It is still 'progress not perfection' for this A/codependent! How do I do this?

just for today, I practice kindness, thoughtfulness and consideration to all who cross my path and I treat them as I would like to be treated.

Now I will readily admit that some days are better than others but as long as I go to bed at night, having done a tenth step, and know without a 'shadow of a doubt' that I did the 'best' I could do that day, then I am content. It wasn't too very long after I started this 'practice' (yes I am still practicing, lol) that I realized that that short little statement, covered The Twelve Steps, The Ten Commandments. and The Golden Rule, all rolled up into one sentence, for me.

As part of my 2th step I come to SR to read and to post my own Experience, Strength and Hope (ES&H) and a lot of the time I learn a lot more than I 'give away', lol and that is as it should be. Keeps me open minded and aware of me.

Again thank you KE. This is another thread, that in my humble opinion should become a 'sticky', as an ongoing reminder to ALL of us.

Love and hugs,
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:07 PM
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You described me and thank you for putting the words on paper. Sobering.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:00 PM
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Awesome thread Kindeyes. Thank you for sharing your "confessions."

I can relate to so many of those traits.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:04 AM
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Thanks for the post...i love the Just for Today...and it reminds me that I can start over today. I am such a pleaser, but told the truth to my son and daughter-in-law about something they did that hurt my feelings...and I felt like I was mean. But I realize that they were setting their own boundaries and that I have no control over that no matter how much it hurt my feelings.
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