Me vs. a spider
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Me vs. a spider
AnvilheadII asked me an interesting question last night and got my wheels turning...and rather than hijack someone else's thread completely (sorry, Lara 
) I thought I'd repost it into a separate thread.
She asked me: How pretty is he inside...which does not change or depend upon his outsides. His morals, ethics, dreams, beliefs, actions. How does he treat the planet? And....how does he treat YOU? Consistently, not sporadically.
And I responded with the following: You know, you brought up something interesting that my mom just reminded me of tonight....
One time when I was at his house a year ago, he made a point of telling me that he wanted me to know that he saved a spider in his basement that day, that he could have killed it but didn't. I don't know WHY he told me that, but then again, this was back when we actually used to TALK and share and laugh about stuff. And of course, I thought, awww, he's such a good person, saving a spider instead of killing it, he's got such a good heart. And my mom pointed out today, yeah, he has more feelings for a spider than he does for you, for an actual person who's got such a good heart. He didn't want to hurt the spider, but had no problem squashing you. And I must admit, the more I think about it, the more it baffles me....you'd think that that shows that he really IS a good person, that he cares about other living things, I mean, if a man cares enough about a big scary spider to not kill it, he can't be all bad, right? And he even told me around the same time as the spider story that there's this older man at the bar who gets so drunk that he sometimes has 'accidents' and everyone at the bar makes fun of him, and that he felt so bad for him one night because he reminded him of his deceased dad, that he almost started crying and had to leave the bar (and then promptly came home and called me). And that's the kind of stuff that's haunting me and driving me CRAZY, because when he shared those things with me, I felt such overwhelming love for him and felt sure that this man had such a sweet, tender heart underneath all the pain and hurt he's suffered!! I ALWAYS thought he had a good heart and compassion for other people's suffering...but fast-forward almost a year, and he's a complete stranger to me now, treating me with less respect and concern than he did a spider.
*sigh* This is just the kind of stuff that's been racing through my head and making it hard for me to grasp why he did what he did to me. Could his addiction really have progressed to the point that he just doesn't care about other people anymore?? If he saw that spider now, would he kill it? If anyone has any insight or can offer any suggestions as to this majorly conflicting behavior, I'd GREATLY appreciate it!!
) I thought I'd repost it into a separate thread.She asked me: How pretty is he inside...which does not change or depend upon his outsides. His morals, ethics, dreams, beliefs, actions. How does he treat the planet? And....how does he treat YOU? Consistently, not sporadically.
And I responded with the following: You know, you brought up something interesting that my mom just reminded me of tonight....
One time when I was at his house a year ago, he made a point of telling me that he wanted me to know that he saved a spider in his basement that day, that he could have killed it but didn't. I don't know WHY he told me that, but then again, this was back when we actually used to TALK and share and laugh about stuff. And of course, I thought, awww, he's such a good person, saving a spider instead of killing it, he's got such a good heart. And my mom pointed out today, yeah, he has more feelings for a spider than he does for you, for an actual person who's got such a good heart. He didn't want to hurt the spider, but had no problem squashing you. And I must admit, the more I think about it, the more it baffles me....you'd think that that shows that he really IS a good person, that he cares about other living things, I mean, if a man cares enough about a big scary spider to not kill it, he can't be all bad, right? And he even told me around the same time as the spider story that there's this older man at the bar who gets so drunk that he sometimes has 'accidents' and everyone at the bar makes fun of him, and that he felt so bad for him one night because he reminded him of his deceased dad, that he almost started crying and had to leave the bar (and then promptly came home and called me). And that's the kind of stuff that's haunting me and driving me CRAZY, because when he shared those things with me, I felt such overwhelming love for him and felt sure that this man had such a sweet, tender heart underneath all the pain and hurt he's suffered!! I ALWAYS thought he had a good heart and compassion for other people's suffering...but fast-forward almost a year, and he's a complete stranger to me now, treating me with less respect and concern than he did a spider.
*sigh* This is just the kind of stuff that's been racing through my head and making it hard for me to grasp why he did what he did to me. Could his addiction really have progressed to the point that he just doesn't care about other people anymore?? If he saw that spider now, would he kill it? If anyone has any insight or can offer any suggestions as to this majorly conflicting behavior, I'd GREATLY appreciate it!!
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I love the analogy and yes, most people treat their loved ones better than anyone (or anything) on earth.
When that isn't the case, perhaps it's time to take a realistic look at the relationship and decide if this is how you want to live. Counseling and meetings can help you, but sometimes the damage is beyond repair. Only you can decide what is right for you.
Hugs
When that isn't the case, perhaps it's time to take a realistic look at the relationship and decide if this is how you want to live. Counseling and meetings can help you, but sometimes the damage is beyond repair. Only you can decide what is right for you.
Hugs
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This is just the kind of stuff that's been racing through my head and making it hard for me to grasp why he did what he did to me. Could his addiction really have progressed to the point that he just doesn't care about other people anymore?? If he saw that spider now, would he kill it?
I cannot stress this enough......drugs change a person's thought process. They do things that they "normally" wouldn't do if they weren't addicted (but they ARE addicted).......and sometimes those "things" can be pretty awful. Drugs do not excuse inexcusable behaviors! And every time "we" let them get away with it, we are reinforcing those behaviors.
So.....again......the question really is......why do we keep going back for more when doing so is helping to reinforce the negative behaviors associated with addiction? We are not victims........at some point.....we become volunteers and accomplices.
You asked the question "Could his addiction really have progressed to the point that he just doesn't care about other people anymore?" The answer is yes.....addiction can progress to that point......that is part of the definition of addiction.......they care more about scoring and using the drug than they do about anything else.
Addiction is ugly. I'm so sorry that you're dealing with addiction in someone you love. It is hard. Take care of you.
gentle hugs
ke
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Ever,
It is crazy that you wrote this post. It sounds like my life. I use to see my AH as the most compassionate person on the planet. (even before he was using, he hasn't always been this way) He really wanted to help others. He would go out of the way in the middle of the night. To bail out his AB. Feed the guy that worked for us because he spent more $ on his dog and would'nt feed himself. Go at the drop of the hat to fix a friends car. Always... He is probably the best friend. But now I see it different. And things have changed. Now I know that he is doing this for his drug buddies, Paying there child support, feeding them, leaving in the middle of the night to bail them out of jail. All the shady creatures he hangs around. Bending over backwards for them...."oh, honey he says, they are down on there luck...."
But you can't even call me and the kids. You can't come help me when I call....
I have to look at it different now. I have to say, what are you doing for me? What are you doing to fix this marriage? What are you doing to fix the relationship with your kids?? NOTHING.... So now I see it different.
He has made it VERY clear to me that all these other people he surrounds himself with are far more important than me and the kids. Now I am learning that I have to make myself and my kids important BY MY SELF! I am learning that IT IS ABOUT ME!
And thank you for posting this! It reminds me that I do need to put my kids and myself first because of the way he treats us vs. other people. I have been struggling the past few days and needed a reminder
It is crazy that you wrote this post. It sounds like my life. I use to see my AH as the most compassionate person on the planet. (even before he was using, he hasn't always been this way) He really wanted to help others. He would go out of the way in the middle of the night. To bail out his AB. Feed the guy that worked for us because he spent more $ on his dog and would'nt feed himself. Go at the drop of the hat to fix a friends car. Always... He is probably the best friend. But now I see it different. And things have changed. Now I know that he is doing this for his drug buddies, Paying there child support, feeding them, leaving in the middle of the night to bail them out of jail. All the shady creatures he hangs around. Bending over backwards for them...."oh, honey he says, they are down on there luck...."
But you can't even call me and the kids. You can't come help me when I call....
I have to look at it different now. I have to say, what are you doing for me? What are you doing to fix this marriage? What are you doing to fix the relationship with your kids?? NOTHING.... So now I see it different.
He has made it VERY clear to me that all these other people he surrounds himself with are far more important than me and the kids. Now I am learning that I have to make myself and my kids important BY MY SELF! I am learning that IT IS ABOUT ME!
And thank you for posting this! It reminds me that I do need to put my kids and myself first because of the way he treats us vs. other people. I have been struggling the past few days and needed a reminder
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Thank you, Ann. As you said, most people treat people they 'love' with respect and concern, not like they are dirt under their feet! I guess I'm 'lucky' that he actually ended it with me, but it was so coldly and unexpectedly, as if I never meant anything at all to him. I am considering counseling and meetings, but for MYSELF, so I can put an end to these types of relationships and find someone who actually appreciates and WANTS to be with me.
KindEyes, you hit the nail on the head. Because of the spider story (and because he really seemed like he wanted me to KNOW about the spider), I had myself convinced that this guy was gold. So even when his behavior towards ME started turning more cold, more uncaring, I STILL kept going back, because of the spider story, because he showed me that at one time, he DID have compassion and cared about other living things and other people. And that's why I think everyone who knew him in the past is so shocked by what he did, because that's not the person we've always known. But as you said, drugs change a person, changes their thought process, and he's been 'recreationally' using cocaine, weed and alcohol (and who even knows what else) for 25 years. And now he's hit the point where he's isolating himself, he always wants to be alone and he's behaving in ways that nobody would have ever thought he would be capable of. And it just BREAKS. MY. HEART.
KindEyes, you hit the nail on the head. Because of the spider story (and because he really seemed like he wanted me to KNOW about the spider), I had myself convinced that this guy was gold. So even when his behavior towards ME started turning more cold, more uncaring, I STILL kept going back, because of the spider story, because he showed me that at one time, he DID have compassion and cared about other living things and other people. And that's why I think everyone who knew him in the past is so shocked by what he did, because that's not the person we've always known. But as you said, drugs change a person, changes their thought process, and he's been 'recreationally' using cocaine, weed and alcohol (and who even knows what else) for 25 years. And now he's hit the point where he's isolating himself, he always wants to be alone and he's behaving in ways that nobody would have ever thought he would be capable of. And it just BREAKS. MY. HEART.
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I'm sorry to hear that, italiungrl....it's so sad and hurtful, not to mention terribly confusing, when the person you love with all your heart will treat an animal or spider with more respect than they do you. 
Blueholly, thank you so much for sharing YOUR experience with ME - although I'm sorry that you and your children have experienced this behavior firsthand, it also comforts me to know I'm not the only one.
The addict I love would always do the SAME exact thing!! He would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING for all his addict friends (who he calls his 'real' family), but would do NOTHING for me!! He helped a 'friend' move, but when my parents and I moved, he never once offered any help. At the bar, when he's drunk/high and feeling good, it's drinks all around, but never spent one dime on me. He even threw his OWN birthday bash at the bar, complete with a DJ, free food and drinks for his 'friends,' and not only didn't invite me, but he never once even mentioned it to me!! He will ALWAYS put his addict 'friends' before anyone else in his life and just like your AH, he has made this clear on more than one occasion. And like you, I also have to accept it and put MYSELF first for a change. At least in my situation, he's already cut the ties and has moved on and now I just have to somehow find a way to do the same.
I'm glad this story helped you, and thank you for your response, which helped ME.
Originally Posted by blueholly 
Ever,
It is crazy that you wrote this post. It sounds like my life. I use to see my AH as the most compassionate person on the planet. (even before he was using, he hasn't always been this way) He really wanted to help others. He would go out of the way in the middle of the night. To bail out his AB. Feed the guy that worked for us because he spent more $ on his dog and would'nt feed himself. Go at the drop of the hat to fix a friends car. Always... He is probably the best friend. But now I see it different. And things have changed. Now I know that he is doing this for his drug buddies, Paying there child support, feeding them, leaving in the middle of the night to bail them out of jail. All the shady creatures he hangs around. Bending over backwards for them...."oh, honey he says, they are down on there luck...."
But you can't even call me and the kids. You can't come help me when I call....
I have to look at it different now. I have to say, what are you doing for me? What are you doing to fix this marriage? What are you doing to fix the relationship with your kids?? NOTHING.... So now I see it different.
He has made it VERY clear to me that all these other people he surrounds himself with are far more important than me and the kids. Now I am learning that I have to make myself and my kids important BY MY SELF! I am learning that IT IS ABOUT ME!
And thank you for posting this! It reminds me that I do need to put my kids and myself first because of the way he treats us vs. other people. I have been struggling the past few days and needed a reminder
It is crazy that you wrote this post. It sounds like my life. I use to see my AH as the most compassionate person on the planet. (even before he was using, he hasn't always been this way) He really wanted to help others. He would go out of the way in the middle of the night. To bail out his AB. Feed the guy that worked for us because he spent more $ on his dog and would'nt feed himself. Go at the drop of the hat to fix a friends car. Always... He is probably the best friend. But now I see it different. And things have changed. Now I know that he is doing this for his drug buddies, Paying there child support, feeding them, leaving in the middle of the night to bail them out of jail. All the shady creatures he hangs around. Bending over backwards for them...."oh, honey he says, they are down on there luck...."
But you can't even call me and the kids. You can't come help me when I call....
I have to look at it different now. I have to say, what are you doing for me? What are you doing to fix this marriage? What are you doing to fix the relationship with your kids?? NOTHING.... So now I see it different.
He has made it VERY clear to me that all these other people he surrounds himself with are far more important than me and the kids. Now I am learning that I have to make myself and my kids important BY MY SELF! I am learning that IT IS ABOUT ME!
And thank you for posting this! It reminds me that I do need to put my kids and myself first because of the way he treats us vs. other people. I have been struggling the past few days and needed a reminder
The addict I love would always do the SAME exact thing!! He would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING for all his addict friends (who he calls his 'real' family), but would do NOTHING for me!! He helped a 'friend' move, but when my parents and I moved, he never once offered any help. At the bar, when he's drunk/high and feeling good, it's drinks all around, but never spent one dime on me. He even threw his OWN birthday bash at the bar, complete with a DJ, free food and drinks for his 'friends,' and not only didn't invite me, but he never once even mentioned it to me!! He will ALWAYS put his addict 'friends' before anyone else in his life and just like your AH, he has made this clear on more than one occasion. And like you, I also have to accept it and put MYSELF first for a change. At least in my situation, he's already cut the ties and has moved on and now I just have to somehow find a way to do the same.
I'm glad this story helped you, and thank you for your response, which helped ME.
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Great post. My boyfriend and I had this go around last week over something he did. After he spent some time thinking about it, he gave me some examples of other small stuff he had done (not affecting me) but said he was realizing that using was slowly creeping in & affecting his character & judgement. seeing it in these things he mentioned was making him feel sick, and he realized he was doing the right thing getting treatment.
I think the drugs do slowly invade and maybe they don't even see if for a long time. My guy is what I hear called highly functional, and hasn't had anything major, (or even minor really) happen because of his use, and so I'm glad he is seeing it now, but I realized maybe that is what they mean by "hitting bottom" something that shakes a person enough to see what the drugs are doing to their core person. Some people have to get really low, and even then some might never see it.
But your doing the right thing not allowing yourself to be treated poorly no matter what's going on with him. We are responsible for weeding out the guys that don't treat us right for whatever reason. And it sounds like you have that figured out no problem.
I think the drugs do slowly invade and maybe they don't even see if for a long time. My guy is what I hear called highly functional, and hasn't had anything major, (or even minor really) happen because of his use, and so I'm glad he is seeing it now, but I realized maybe that is what they mean by "hitting bottom" something that shakes a person enough to see what the drugs are doing to their core person. Some people have to get really low, and even then some might never see it.
But your doing the right thing not allowing yourself to be treated poorly no matter what's going on with him. We are responsible for weeding out the guys that don't treat us right for whatever reason. And it sounds like you have that figured out no problem.
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Originally Posted by dasiydoc
Great post. My boyfriend and I had this go around last week over something he did. After he spent some time thinking about it, he gave me some examples of other small stuff he had done (not affecting me) but said he was realizing that using was slowly creeping in & affecting his character & judgement. seeing it in these things he mentioned was making him feel sick, and he realized he was doing the right thing getting treatment.
I think the drugs do slowly invade and maybe they don't even see if for a long time. My guy is what I hear called highly functional, and hasn't had anything major, (or even minor really) happen because of his use, and so I'm glad he is seeing it now, but I realized maybe that is what they mean by "hitting bottom" something that shakes a person enough to see what the drugs are doing to their core person. Some people have to get really low, and even then some might never see it.
But your doing the right thing not allowing yourself to be treated poorly no matter what's going on with him. We are responsible for weeding out the guys that don't treat us right for whatever reason. And it sounds like you have that figured out no problem.
I think the drugs do slowly invade and maybe they don't even see if for a long time. My guy is what I hear called highly functional, and hasn't had anything major, (or even minor really) happen because of his use, and so I'm glad he is seeing it now, but I realized maybe that is what they mean by "hitting bottom" something that shakes a person enough to see what the drugs are doing to their core person. Some people have to get really low, and even then some might never see it.
But your doing the right thing not allowing yourself to be treated poorly no matter what's going on with him. We are responsible for weeding out the guys that don't treat us right for whatever reason. And it sounds like you have that figured out no problem.
Sadly enough, if he hadn't broken it off with me, I know I would still be allowing him to treat me poorly, because of my codie issues. So as hard as it is for me to get through every day right now, as much as I feel like my heart is just this open, gaping wound that feels like it will never heal, I'm trying my best to see that as KindEyes said in one of her threads, this painful time is a strangely-wrapped gift and I will look back one day and realize that I dodged a bullet.
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Ted Bundy worked a suicide hotline and was vert good at it....of course this was when he wasn't off kidnapping, raping and murdering woman. Not killing a spider doesn't mean too much to me but sharing it with you is kind of interesting.
I don't like spiders and any spider I see is a dead one.....doesn't make mean or heartless....just makes less spiders in my house!!
One a serious note, we allow people to treat us how we feel about ourselves. Time for you to start showing yourself more love and respect!! You deserve better then him! Let the spider have this one!!
Healthy attracts healthy!!
I don't like spiders and any spider I see is a dead one.....doesn't make mean or heartless....just makes less spiders in my house!!
One a serious note, we allow people to treat us how we feel about ourselves. Time for you to start showing yourself more love and respect!! You deserve better then him! Let the spider have this one!!
Healthy attracts healthy!!
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Wow, what an interetsing post EverHopeful. Thank you for it! I really hadn't thought about this and I totally relate. My boyfriend lied to me so many times (never seeming at all guilty about it) and i wondered, how can one be so mean and heartless? But then sometimes he was such a great guy it seemed! He would always offer to help people clear off their windows (when it was super snowy...we're from NE lol) or he would always be willing to do what I wanted to do..go to the movies I wanted, go to my restaurants...i don't know. He just loved helping people. So confusing. never thought about it. Thanks for bringing it up again!
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Good points all around, LoveMeNow. Now that I think back on it, it just does really strike me as odd that he seemed to really want me to know about that spider... And you're right - it's not like he cured cancer or anything, he just didn't kill a spider. But there are my codie issues rearing up again, acting like this man did the greatest thing on Earth by not killing a spider. Never mind the way he treated me (which I enabled, of course) - he didn't kill a spider, so he MUST be a saint!! lol Thanks for the laughter - it's been hard for me to do lately, but your post helped.
Sure thing, pianogirl. Everyone who posted a response had some great advice/insight to offer, and I know I will be returning to this thread often over the coming weeks to read them again!! I think it's a little bit of what everyone had to say, they treat their 'friends' (or people they aren't emotionally involved with) better than us, the things that we think are SO wonderful and give them such high praise for really aren't that great and certainly don't excuse their treatment of us at other times and mostly, that the drugs alter them in such a way that we can't even recognize them as the people we once knew them to be.
Now that I think back on it, it just does really strike me as odd that he seemed to really want me to know about that spider... And you're right - it's not like he cured cancer or anything, he just didn't kill a spider. But there are my codie issues rearing up again, acting like this man did the greatest thing on Earth by not killing a spider. Never mind the way he treated me (which I enabled, of course) - he didn't kill a spider, so he MUST be a saint!! lol Thanks for the laughter - it's been hard for me to do lately, but your post helped. Sure thing, pianogirl.
Everyone who posted a response had some great advice/insight to offer, and I know I will be returning to this thread often over the coming weeks to read them again!! I think it's a little bit of what everyone had to say, they treat their 'friends' (or people they aren't emotionally involved with) better than us, the things that we think are SO wonderful and give them such high praise for really aren't that great and certainly don't excuse their treatment of us at other times and mostly, that the drugs alter them in such a way that we can't even recognize them as the people we once knew them to be.
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