Pastor is not a fan of Al / Nar anon

Old 01-22-2013, 02:26 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I would search the scriptures for yourself regarding any matters of confusion.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:21 PM
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Just my perspective, but I see both sides. I am ok with helping those in need that I know want better and trying to help themselves. That's a hand up. I am not ok with those who are not trying to help themselves and want a hand out.

So, I could never say that I would not help an addict, but it would sure darn depend on the circumstances. I think the Bible supports both, IMO, and I pray about each decision I make. I also do not try to anticipate others needs, because I know I am codependent and I think I know what they need.

Therefore, my rule is, I wait for the request, if there will be one, then I prayerfully consider it, taking into account the behavior and patterns of the requester. I believe God will show me the right way. Sometimes, it's act. Sometimes it Him telling me to shut up and be still.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:53 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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I echo what Greet said and just want to add that in the 12 steps it refers to the God of your understanding...meaning a Christian God (which includes Jesus), a Jewish God, or whatever Higher Power is part of your spiritual practice. It does not preach any one practice, it embraces the beauty of all and respects the different personal views. It is not a religious program, it is a spiritual program about us taking care of us and nurturing our spirit.

I find that usually those who find fault with 12 step programs, don't understand them and rarely have spent much time with any of them. They are not for everyone but they have been the lifeline of many here, including me.

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Old 01-24-2013, 07:41 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lily1918 View Post
ok well he reminded me Of 70x7 with forgiveness. That love covers over all wrongs. if someone steals your jacket, give them your shirt also. Never allow them to live in sin in your home with no repentance , but if they ask you to fill a legit need, like food or etc, then fill it and don't even judge what they will do, because God sees us all as filthy equally, and loves us just the same. Love keeps no record of wrongs. He said basically always ask yourself wwjd? if you read the synopsis or are familiar with les miserables its like that. Javert is tough love, the priest is Gods.
Thanks to everyone for this discussion. You all are some of the most mature and thoughtful people I have ever come across.

Forgiveness: you can forgive someone without inviting them back for more. People who post here are often encouraged to move through their anger until they can find compassion for the addict. And still this does not mean inviting him back for more of the same. Forgiveness is letting go of the anger and bitterness in your heart. Your loved one does not necessarily even know they are forgiven.

Giving to others: there is a difference between giving to someone in need and giving to someone who will use your gift to do more self-harm. The latter is not what the Bible intended IMHO.

Love keeps no wrongs: Once again, you do not have to be with the person to not keep wrongs. I do not believe you are healed until you can look at the addict in love, but without enabling them.

Kindeyes started a thread long ago where we each talked about the good qualities of our addicts. It brought tears to my eyes and you could see the love and compassion shining from each who shared.

I do not disagree with your pastor, but I do think the interpretation can be very different.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:19 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Thank you for that, Sunshine2. I struggled a really long time with forgiveness. I finally concluded that I had forgiven someone when I no longer harbored ill will towards them. I do not believe God intended for us to be doormats and to continue to invite a wrongdoer back into our lives to hurt or take advantage of us.

I'm reminded of the fact that Jesus healed.....and then he walked away.

I can forgive someone a million times, but I don't have to continue to allow them to destroy a little piece of me every time.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:31 PM
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There is some wonderful information here and I am honored to have such a great place to go for love, support and understanding . . .

I didn't always have this and in dealing with my then alcoholic addict spouse - I sought help thru my pastor ~ I believe that my pastor gave me what he believed to be the best advice he had to offer but the problem was my Pastor had never been in a similiar situation as mine ~

He had no experience with an alcoholic addict husband that was stealing money from me and our children, that was constantly lying, emotionally and mentally abusive and all the other insane things to go along with living in that type of environment ~

I know now I was going to a hardware store seeking a loaf of bread ~ My pastor may have read many books on how to counsel families in this situation but he had never BEEN in a situation like mine. For me - I get my best help from those who have walked this path ~

If I need brain surgery, I want someone with experience, not someone who has just read a book about it ~

Although, his heart and spirit may be in the right place to help, my Pastor was just not qualified to help me in my situation ~

So for me ~ I take my spiritual advise along with my recovery suggestions and ask my HP to show me what is the healthiest decision for my specific situation so that I can be happy, joyous and free and ALSO allow my loved ones affected by this disease the opportunity to find their way to a path to recovery ~

just my e, s, & h

pink hugs
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:42 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Great post MsPink.

I adore and respect my pastor. He is a very wise man. And, although his past included alcohol and cocaine abuse many years ago, I too felt like I went to the hardware store for a loaf of bread.

I will never again allow someone to tell me I can not divorce my husband. That choice is between me and God. God may hate divorce but He will always love me unconditionally. BIG difference, IMO!
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:42 PM
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That's interesting. My church and pastor support al-anon and AA and other 12 step programs. We host meetings in our basement. We list them in our Sunday bulletin.

Lesson 1: My pastor is not God. My pastor is a flawed human being, just like all the rest of us. Pastors have opinions and pastors have differing opinions. They are entitled to their opinions. Their opinions are not right all the time or right for everyone all the time. Pastors can make mistakes.
Lesson 2: I am entitled to prayerfully consider my pastors opinion and then make my own decision. I was given a freewill by God.
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