"What lies did your Codieness tell you today??"

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Old 01-16-2013, 12:13 PM
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"What lies did your Codieness tell you today??"

I saw this thread on the "other side." It was something like "What lie did your addiction try to tell you today? I thought it was very interesting and read a lot of it. But for some reason, I did not see the significance on how it related to me until now.

So, I will start with this truth. I started to lose faith in the 12 step program because time and time again I admired someone's else's recovery but noticed a pattern. (probably because I was guilty of it myself).

I noticed they seemed to have serenity but only achieved when or if the addicted love one had sobriety too. They would post positive encouraging posts but when their loved one relapsed, all their recovery did too. Or they had serenity if they had detached and/or had no contact from there addicted loved one. I see this a lot on the F&F of Alcoholics. "I am fine because they are" type posts and I would be so triggered.

The seed of doubt was planted and much like an addict, I had my own reservations. Is it possible to obtain serenity and not let the choices of other effect us, if we are still involved with that person??? I have my doubts so....I guess I chose to stay on a roller coaster...hoping and praying for the best but was trying to be prepared for the worse. Of course, that is not healthy and I am living proof.

I guess in many ways, I am afraid to detach too. I am afraid to "outgrow" my husband because I am still afraid of change.

There it is............Fear again!! I fear change!! I fear recovery, I fear relapse, I fear addiction. Gosh, I hate that word and feeling...FEAR!!!! The more I try to solves my fears, they just continue to rear their little ugly heads. Then I start questioning my faith. Then, it becomes a vicious cycle!! It can be exhausting being me, lol.

I hope I am not offending anyone who really works the program with honesty. Your posts shine bright and there is no mistaking a codie in recovery or someone who is "faking" it - hoping to make it...much like me.

I say fake as in "I am OK as long as you are OK" thinking.

Last edited by Dee74; 01-16-2013 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM
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I told myself it was okay that I was fixing a friend's iphone and email issues for hours over the last 3 days instead of taking care of things I need to be doing for myself.

But but but...She's a person that doesn't let anyone help her, ever. And I mean ever. And she does so much for others and has helped me quite a few times by checking on my house and kitties while I was away for so long. So I was glad to have an opportunity to do something for her.

And today she cleaned my kitchen while I worked on her computer, then offered to pick up something at the store for me so I didn't have to go out, leaving me time to catch up on the things I was neglecting.

So maybe it's a healthy way of helping someone that actually needed and deserved the help, and not so terribly codependent after all. But I do know I need to be careful about prioritizing my own needs.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:32 PM
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it isn't doing something for someone else, even when you are busy, if that person does a lot for you, and you are just doing what a GOOD friend does.

whats unhealthy is if you SAY you are doing it for them, but the reality is you are wanting to get something out of it for yourself. that you give and give and give, and there is no return, and yet you keep giving hoping that just this once you will a different outcome. and then get hurt each time, and turn that hurt onto yourself that you are pathetic, and not worthy, and maybe if you tried harder, and loved more, then they will see what you are really trying to do. its all about proving something to other person, and being ok no matter what the outcome.

what you did was a perfect display of healthy friendship.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jody675 View Post
what you did was a perfect display of healthy friendship.
Yes, I agree completely with the bold. The only (small) problem here is that I would have done it anyway for anyone even if it wasn't healthy.

It's kind of like eating something you know is bad for you then finding out later it was a healthy version. This worked out fine and I am so grateful I could help her. However, doing things like this when I should be working, or when I really just can't afford the time can be a big problem for me.

My personal issue hasn't been my intention or wanting to prove anything to anyone, but that I do things for others at my own expense and neglect myself (and like lilamy described in another thread, because if I focus on your problems I don't have to worry about my own). Also that I tend toward feeling like if I don't take control and fix a situation it won't get fixed.

However, if I go focus for a few hours now on what I need to do today it'll be golden and I'm happy it was for this particular person.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:06 PM
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do you know what if find sucks the most about being a codie? is that i have to question my motives on EVERYTHING! for i would literally do almost anything for my friends and family. and material things really dont matter to me. if i think its the right thing, then i will do it. where as someone else would look at the same situation, and say that im stupid for being so nice, when the situation doesnt warrant for me being so understanding. even when im hurting from something they have caused.

for example. my bf and i have had to have a break. he is newly separated when we met, and hadnt sorted anything out with his ex. she has wanted to work things out from the start, and he had had enough. and met me. because of this, (and other issues from both sides) our relationship has been turbulent, but still flourished. i was always waiting for him to go back to her, so i guess kept pushing him away. well eventually i pushed at a time when she was offering to do all the things he had said he had wanted from her.

long story short, he is now going to go and see how he feels about her. he does love me, and does want a future with me, he has said that, but knows that he can not have this until he has put this to bed. so he ended us, so he can clear his head, so when his wife arrives at the end of feb, he wont have me in his head and heart confusing him, and he will be able to make a clear decision of what he wants in his future. good plan right?

the thing is, that i really love this guy. i want a relationship with him. i want to find out if we can have a future together. so i have told him i will wait til a week or so after his wife gets here and no longer. but i think he is worth it, as he was the one who always fought for us to stay together, when i was willing to walk away. he knows i am doing this. he didnt ask for it, its what i want.

i recently bought a car for my daughter, and was going to let him use it until my daughter got her Learners in july. he was to pay my daughter for this. after all that has happened, i have let him continue to use my daughters car, until his wife gets here, and then asked that he return all that i have lent him, as i didnt want to have any questions about them that he had to answer, and that way if things didnt turn out, i didnt really have to see him again. it was covering my butt really.

what im struggling with is, my emotions. he is behaving like a friend, but not (im not talking about sex, as i wont be his play thing until his wife gets here), we talk about very personal issues that have arised because of our relationship, that he is trying to grasp. it feels like he wants to know that im there, but when i want to be there, he retreats. i want to spend time with him, just so i can be close, for i miss the connection we had. he was such a huge part of my daily life and now i have to pull back and let him go, with a hope that he will sort this out and we can continue our relationship.

i am struggling with the changes. i know he is hurting, i have seen it. i know he is struggling with all of this too. i know this is the transition from one type of relationship to another, but is it my codie side that is not wanting to let go. LMN talks of fear, and this is what it is for me too. im scared of losing him. but i know if i dont pull back, then i will probably lose him anyway. its like i know what i need to do, but doing it is a while different story. so it is ALL about fear, and i too LMN hate it. i hate feeling like this. i hate feeling this weak, and needy. this is soooo not me, and yet it is completely me.

so my codie self is telling me that i am doing what i normally do in this situation. trying to control it, when i have no control over anyone but me. and that scares me. i to know how this is going to pan out, but no one has a crystal ball. i dont believe he is playing me, or edging his bets. i honestly think he is trying to do the right thing for himself for a change. he wants to give himself the best chance of a healthy relationship. he does however know that he could end up losing both of us. but i guess the odds are more in his favour than anyones. this whole situation just kills me.

so LMN, is this codie? or just plain stupid? how do i detach from this, but no push him away and shut my heart to him? your insight would be invaluable. you are the Dalai Lama of the Codie world...lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:11 PM
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Hanna
at least you are aware of the issue. i also have a similar one, that i keep unhealthy friendships and relationships, in my life. i need to focus on only keeping the friends that are worthy of my type of friendship. for like you, i will give to my friends unconditionally. so i guess the key is ask why you would have people in your life that do not appreciate your friendship? (i am only asking myself the same thing). and why is someones needs more valuable than your own?
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jody675 View Post
Hanna
at least you are aware of the issue. i also have a similar one, that i keep unhealthy friendships and relationships, in my life. i need to focus on only keeping the friends that are worthy of my type of friendship. for like you, i will give to my friends unconditionally. so i guess the key is ask why you would have people in your life that do not appreciate your friendship? (i am only asking myself the same thing). and why is someones needs more valuable than your own?
Jody I just read your post about your situation and then this one above. The common themes are healthy boundaries and also letting go of the idea that we are in control.

And the answer to your question is that if I set healthy boundaries for myself, and get over thinking the world is going to fall apart if don't hold it all together, the people in my life either interact with me in a healthy manner or disappear. For the most part, these people appreciate me immensely even when I do more than I should or if I do nothing at all. And it's primarily a family issue - fortunately I have really amazing friends who are healthy people that never ask for or accept too much.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:34 PM
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sounds like you dont have any codie issues then miss Hanna. or at least with your friends...lol families can be a whole different kettle of fish...hahah...i at least dont have those issues with my family, just my friends. (friends are easier to walk away from than family...lol)

and yes you are right....the world isnt going to fall apart depending on what i do.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jody675 View Post
Hanna
it isn't doing something for someone else, even when you are busy, if that person does a lot for you, and you are just doing what a GOOD friend does.

whats unhealthy is if you SAY you are doing it for them, but the reality is you are wanting to get something out of it for yourself. that you give and give and give, and there is no return, and yet you keep giving hoping that just this once you will a different outcome. and then get hurt each time, and turn that hurt onto yourself that you are pathetic, and not worthy, and maybe if you tried harder, and loved more, then they will see what you are really trying to do. its all about proving something to other person, and being ok no matter what the outcome.

what you did was a perfect display of healthy friendship.
Glad you posted this response because sometimes I feel when I read here people can be pushed too far from one extreme to another and become unwilling to do anything kind or thoughtful for fear its unhealthy.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:19 PM
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Oh my dear friend Jody....you are looking at the poster child not the Dalia Lama of the codie world.

Recovery Codie Class 101 is to seek advice from healthy people! lol

But what I have learned so far is that two whole and healthy people make a whole and healthy relationship. It is an added bonus to an already healthy, fulfilling life. He doesn't sound completely whole and emotionally available at this time. I would question why I "fell" so hard and fast for this kind of man. Is it a pattern to seek out emotionally unavailable men? Are we trying to work out something from a childhood experience?

Stay busy and focused on you. Keep your social life full and lets the chips fall where they will but I would let go of my hopeful fantasy of what could be....because it is not the reality of what is. Codies love to live in hopeful fantasies. It keeps us sucked in and in denial. We seek out people and relationships with "potential" not the reality.

I know this is not what you want to hear but its only my opinion - so consider the source.

If it works out, then great! If not, find the lesson and it will all be worth it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow View Post
Codies love to live in hopeful fantasies. It keeps us sucked in and in denial. We seek out people and relationships with "potential" not the reality.
you are so correct. and LMN, those people who have and even currently not healthy, are generally a pretty good source of information, as they can see so much clearer in other peoples lives than their own. Just because you are the poster child for codiness, doesnt mean that you are a very valuable means of information for others. just maybe not yourself.

thank you for this. i needed it atm. i do only see the potential. (btw we have been together for 5months, and i have only really just realised how much i feel for him. didn't show him this while we were together. i think i always felt that there was an elephant in the room.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:54 AM
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There it is............Fear again!! I fear change!! I fear recovery, I fear relapse, I fear addiction. Gosh, I hate that word and feeling...FEAR!!!! The more I try to solves my fears, they just continue to rear their little ugly heads. Then I start questioning my faith. Then, it becomes a vicious cycle!! It can be exhausting being me, lol.

I hope I am not offending anyone who really works the program with honesty. Your posts shine bright and there is no mistaking a codie in recovery or someone who is "faking" it - hoping to make it...much like me.

I say fake as in "I am OK as long as you are OK" thinking.
Fear has been a huge driver in my life . HUGE. Until I let go of my fears, my recovery suffered greatly. And it takes a LOT of daily work for me to keep my fears at bay and live in today......taking it one day at a time. Does that mean I am never afraid? Heck no! But I don't LIVE in a state of constant high level fear anymore. I did that for waaaaaaaay too long. And I let my son hold me hostage and control me....using that very effective tool.....my own fear.

I noticed they seemed to have serenity but only achieved when or if the addicted love one had sobriety too. They would post positive encouraging posts but when their loved one relapsed, all their recovery did too. Or they had serenity if they had detached and/or had no contact from there addicted loved one. I see this a lot on the F&F of Alcoholics. "I am fine because they are" type posts and I would be so triggered.
Try not to judge yourself or others too harshly. Recovery takes a lot of work and none of us do it perfectly. Progress....not perfection. Recovery doesn't mean we stop feeling.....it just means that we get a little better handle on ourselves. It's impossible (IMO) not to feel some level of joy when a loved one is trying to get sober. And impossible not to feel sadness or disappointment when relapse occurs. It's what I do with those emotions that indicate if I am making progress in my own recovery. It's ok to feel the emotions, let it travel through, and move on. It's when I get paralyzed and stuck in the emotions (particularly fear and anger) that things go haywire. Or let those emotions trigger me to make a rash decision or reaction.....that never ends well.

Keep working your program of recovery....whatever you choose to make it. For me personally, my real recovery didn't really happen until I worked those 12 little steps. It took almost two years to work through them in an in depth step study group. And I'm doing it all over again.....a refresher course that is not quite as in depth with the same group of people.

Honesty.....real honesty.....is being able to say "I'm not doing well today even though I have a lot of recovery under my belt" and not caring whether others judge my level or degree of recovery. Believe me, there are days when I just lose it....I feel like I lose all of the hard work I've put in to my recovery. Other people will always impact my life to some degree.....but they don't control my life anymore. God has the wheel and I'm along for the ride.

You brought up some really good points! And if you have to fake it 'til you make it. That's OK. Be gentle with yourself.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:54 PM
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Great thread LMN, today my daughter was having issues with her boyfriend and I found myself asking her questions such as have you asked yourself why you keep picking the same type guys, I wouldn't let her use my phone because the conversations she was having with him were making things worse and bothering me.

How was I being codie? Well the truth is I saw a lot of me in my daughter and I felt guilty and I wanted to find a way to MAKE her see certain things...

I know better than that I had a big codie laspe today.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by crazybabie View Post

How was I being codie? Well the truth is I saw a lot of me in my daughter and I felt guilty and I wanted to find a way to MAKE her see certain things...
and another nail on the head...thanks crazybabie

doing the same thing right now.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:09 PM
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It's just the worst when you realize you "modeled" codie behavior for your children, and daughters especially, at least for mothers. I think I did much better by my youngest modeling a relationship of equals with her stepdad. Still, it is so upsetting to see my oldest so enmeshed in a super-codie relationship with another recovering addict...I call on my HP to please, please show her the light sooner than I saw it. Right now I am in the "painful observer" position with her, hearing stories about his life and past that just scream to me: "Run, run, as fast as you can!" On my good days I remember that I need to "allow her the dignity to live her own life." Those occur about every three to five days now. I am hoping for every two to four in the next several months, because once she leaves the state with him, I have to accept it fully. And fear is a huge driver for me as well. It is the home fire of my co-dependent self.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:35 PM
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Today, I told myself I just needed a break from thinking about codependency and recoveries. I am still unsure if that was a "lie" or not...but I had a nice, relaxing day regardless.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:21 PM
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I posted this on one of my earlier threads... whilst I am boldly moving onto day 7 no contact - and feeling quite good about myself - I find myself dwelling / thinking / 'obsessing on things I can do to 'support' H when he is in rehab. With all intention of no contact for 3 months - but thinking about what I can give him after 3 months - books on recovery / poems / quotes.... So there I go - already thinking about how it will be in 3 months time. So there I go again - handing him my heart / mind / soul to do with it what he pleases. He could take me in his arms with love and warm kisses - or equally, and just as easily - toss it over the nearest cliff. I am aware of these dangerous dwellings on the future - and working hard to concentrate on ANYTHING but him. On important things. On me.

The other big 'whopper' is I very much am still in that place, that grey area, where boundaries don't exist - that place I find myself in feeling more peaceful, serene, happier - and I have a niggling feeling it has a lot to do with knowing H will be in rehab and therefore in a round about cosmic tubular way - safe.

I have a lot of work to do today on mself!
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:15 PM
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hey Lara, how would you feel if H said, im going to not have any drugs or alcohol, but had an end date for that? is that real recovery? this is my current situation too. i have a point at which i will know if i get to discuss a future with my exbf or not, but right now i have to just concentrate on myself and what i need to learn. and let my bf do what he needs to do. i cant obsess over what is going on his life. as hard as that is. you keep going, but think more about yourself and less about how you can help him.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:49 AM
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Good thread, LMN.

Originally Posted by GardenMama View Post
It's just the worst when you realize you "modeled" codie behavior for your children, and daughters especially, at least for mothers.
That is a sobering thought. It's sad to think how in years past some of the examples I've set through my codependent behavior would have affected my daughter; though, thankfully, she is an independent and responsible young woman, and I've observed over the years that she's been much more confident and sure of who she is than I ever was.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:01 AM
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Keep my serenity despite the chaos. That's the theme for me in choosing to stay with a challenging relationship, to remain married to someone in denial.

I have quality of life because of my spiritual program in Al-Anon. No matter what happens I have a healthy resource to keep me on track, keep me grounded in what's important, to find my perspective again when it begins to waver.

I've been so fortunate, years ago, to find an established, experienced, healthy Al-Anon group close by. My sponsor and sponsoring others keeps me moving forward.

It's never a done deal for me. Working the program, practicing the steps every day, growing in self-care and healthy boundaries, returning to the steps over and over, learning on an ever deeper level what they mean and their true value ... gives me quality of life and a reason for being here.

The fascinating paradoxes in the program just continue to draw me in and I gain greater understanding of how we human beings can hold them all at the same time. Serenity in the midst of strife, strength in vulnerability, good boundaries in the face of defensiveness, surrender and acceptance a doorway to comfort and peace; it goes on and on. The longer I stay with it, the more it comes.

It doesn't shield me from the stresses of life, but it gives me the tools and the means to come back into balance when I fall off the edge.

It's constant practice, a way of life. It's taken me years to really OWN this understanding. Every baby step is worth it. The journey never ends....

Thanks for this thread!
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