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Love???? NO CONTACT

Old 01-09-2013, 01:10 PM
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Love???? NO CONTACT

Dear friends and members
I have recenly posted two threads which contradict each other. I am not in a good place. But I read all you say and thank God for you all and your wisdom (Englishgarden, Crazybabie and everyone else). I need to go 'NO CONTACT'. But how do I do this? H is such a part of my daily life.... we speak 10 times a day... sms all the time and see each other all the time... do I just out of the blue stop contacting him??? Do I speak to him first and tell him what I am doing - do I offer him an explanation???? Just so confused right now...... Shouldn't I at least speak to him and explain myself???? The last conversation today is he is coming back with me to South Africa - he is being admitted back into rehab and as of this very moment I am part of his support group - but I just can't do this anymore. My heart aches and I am tired. I feel I am reaching the end. I find every meeting with him exhausting. The highs and the lows. Just tired. What do I say to him??? How do I do this??
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:07 PM
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Well, I would just tell him. From what you posted above he has plently of other people to support him, plus in rehab, it is all about support.

You were doing so good until you went back to the "island" and all of this started again.

Honestly, I would go wacko talking to anyone 10 times a day, seems extreme to me.

If you really want to let go and move forward, you will. Do what is best for you, life is too short for all his drama...or at least I think so.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:35 PM
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I know from experience that it is difficult to detach when you've been that entwined. The idea of someone needing me that much can be very intoxicating stuff - at least for me.

Is the problem telling him or telling yourself what you are going to do? Are you ready to really do what you say that you want? Anytime I focus on my needs and what I need to do to take care of myself it always goes a lot more smoothly.

There is no point telling someone that you are going to detach from them if you don't follow through. What is it going to take for you to get the space between you that you periodically feel that you need? I am not suggesting that that is inappropriate - just that you've decided to detach before and now you say that you are talking 10 times a day. What will make it different.

I know how difficult it was to step away from my husband....even after he had said and done horrible things. I was caught up in a really sick dynamic and it was so hard to detach. I finally had to remind myself that we could not get healthy together. Someday, if and when he has a year or sobriety and recovery time then I would consider meeting him in a public place for coffee. I don't want to be a part of it while he is getting sober or in early recovery. It is too toxic for me. The support and fellowship that a newly recovering person needs the most is from other people on the same path.

The fact is......I'm not well enough to be that support person. I have had a lot of issues with boundaries in the past and allowed myself to get entwined in unhealthy situations. I do well with boundaries now because I have chosen to stay away from people that are in the midst of addiction/early recovery. Not saying that they don't deserve support - just that it's better if it comes from someone else other than me.

I'm sorry that you are sad and struggling with this. I know that slogans can be very irritating but this one is so true ....if nothing changes, nothing changes.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:40 PM
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Would you feel comfortable saying - the time has come for you to work on you - and its time for me to work on me - separate from each other so there is NO distractions from our own individual recoveries??
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:41 PM
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How do you go "no contact"? By going "no contact".

I don't mean to be flippant, because I understand that it's an incredibly hard and painful decision. So, my only counsel would be when you decide to finally do it, however you tell him, do it with love, with grace, and with compassion.

I like to say just because we love someone doesn't mean we're meant to be with them.

I would give whatever supports you have a heads up and lean on them during what will be an incredibly difficult time for you. And if you need to PM, I'm always around.

God Bless,
ZoSo
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:42 PM
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Lara
i had a guy in my life that i thought was really special and that we had an amazing connection. but the reality of the situation was that we only had an amazing connection when HE wanted there to be one. so on a few occasions i have tried to just stop contacting. i didnt tell him what i did or why, and he continued to call and call, and i ignored. but he never stopped. eventually i gave in and we would talk.

i knew he wanted more than friends but i justified it by saying well i wasn't interested and i have told him that, so it isnt an issue.

my bf had a different opinion and in the end i decided that this guy isnt a REAL friend, so why keep him in my life. this time though i sent an email. i have put that email below. now remember this is a guy i have known and loved at points for 8 years. we have been through ups and downs, but have always stayed in contact. and this is what my goodbye letter ended up as.

"after our phone call the other day i realised that our friendship is not a positive influence in my life. you seem to want my relationship to fail for some reason. i have only offered you friendship in the last few years, and i thought you understood that is all i want from you, as any ideas of a romantic relationship ended when we broke up. but you do not seem to want to respect my current relationship. that is not fair on me, and certainly not fair on Adrian. he does not deserve a gf who is staying in contact with someone she knows wants more than friendship with her.

im sorry, and i do wish you all the best in what you want in life

please do not contact me. this is not up for discussion."

his reply was polite and respectful, and i have not heard from him since.
(this was only last week)

as you can see you dont need to go into great detail to end something that once meant a great deal to you. keep it short, sweet, and without emotion. it makes it a lot easier to let go. (believe me i have written the lengthy goodbye letters and if i was honest with myself it wasnt a goodbye letter, it was, i love you so much and i dont want to do this, but i just feel...bla bla bla letter).

keep it simple Lara, and you will get through it. take a moment at a time, and breath in-between. you will be fine.

Lee-anne
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:50 PM
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Lara, I don't think your problem is telling him, I think it is just hard for "you" to go and stay no contact...all this said with respect.

The madness won't end until you say it ends. And it doesn't end when you step back into the arena.

It's not easy to detach, but the alternative is to stay stuck on the same place, the same pain, and the same madness over and over.

My life didn't change until "I" changed. It wasn't easy but for me, the alternative was to die trying.

Hugs
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:30 PM
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One of the indications of someone who is extremely narcissistic is that person feels dead without constant feedback, support, admiration, and attention. Those are called the "narcissistic supply" and they feed a black hole in the narcissist.

With drug addiction and all the erratic and, according to your recent posts, even vicious behaviors, Lara, I am wondering if he is not a hardwired malignant narcissist.

Maybe you could google the term and see whether the descriptions fit your experience of him.

The reason I am suggesting this is that the narcissist will absolutely demand within the family that everyone cater to him, and the effect a pathological narcissist has on a young child is devastating. In some ways, I think, even worse than a drunk's effects, because at least when someone is visibly drunk, a child can make a little better sense of why the adult is saying and doing insane things.

But people who have narcissistic personality disorder, they can be charming and friendly and welcoming while their needs are being fed. But once the attention turns away from them--ask anyone who has had a child with a narcissist who cannot tolerate coming second to a child--the narcissist can annihilate someone's soul with one remark. All it takes is one remark. I find pathological narcissism one of the most chilling disorders on the planet.

Many of us here know that just getting clean does not change a hardwired personality disorder. Zoso can attest to that. And until an addict is clean for a couple of years, we really do not know what his wiring is.

Your son is still top priority, right? I'm sure he is. But H has an astonishing way of sucking up all your energy, no matter where he is or what he's up to. It will affect your parenting.

I think most of us would vote no contact of any kind. And yes, you can let him know in advance, you can even set a specific time frame--five months, seven months, eight months, a year--and then the suggestion here is usually changing all your numbers because addicts absolutely never respect boundaries. But it will not be easy, Lara. It will be one of the biggest challenges you have ever faced, for the risk of obsessing about him will be very powerful, even with the silence. Your imagination will run wild, you will feel very anxious and very vulnerable and you will need someone in recovery you can call, even daily, for help in staying in the day and not out in orbit in the future. I speak from experience on this.

We are glad you are seeking help, Lara, and so many of us here understand what it is to try to disengage oneself from the vortex of chaos that is the addict's or alcoholic's life.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:50 PM
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Talking

I spent the last 2 days pouring through the forum and I got much strength from them and your previous posts which you suggested I read and because of them I have made the decision of NO CONTACT with my agf. I love her and because of that I have let her go. The relationship will destroy two of us and I believe that one of us surviving is better than none of us surviving.

Your advice, the forum advice from all over the place is with an addict is 100% NO CONTACT. As was said here it seems you regress in your self when you go back to the place he lives. Seeing him every day and such communication is confusing him and you, and I believe by travelling with him it could also send a wrong message to him? Does he not have a freind or family person that can go instead?

Follow your own advice and get strength from the gift of this forum.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:47 AM
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You will go no contact when you start loving yourself as much as you love him.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:59 AM
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Lara, I say this with much love and respect I have to agree that you go no contact when your ready, when you hit your bottom. I know you have felt ready before like when he had the wreck that injured those people. I know you tried before and it didn't last I am not judging you heck my no contact didn't last either.

So easy for me to tell you how yet so hard to do as far as work do you have to see him personally or could you send someone? I would think as long as the two of you run a business together unless someone can go in your place that no contact can't happen.

Can either of you buy the other one out? As, far as do you tell him or not I think LMN, put it in a good way. What about working on you Lara? Have you still been doing that I slacked off and I can tell it.

Sending hugs
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunshine2 View Post
You will go no contact when you start loving yourself as much as you love him.
Whew!!!!! I have nothing to say - your words literally took my breath away...I have so much work to do on myself!
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by crazybabie View Post
What about working on you Lara? Have you still been doing that I slacked off and I can tell it.

Sending hugs
Hey Angie I have not been working on myself as I should. Honestly did not realise how 'bad' I was. Easy to exclude each other from work - both have business partners who can take over the necessary roles.... the part that's difficult is we are like familly. So entwined in each other's lives. Truly feel such a love. A love before the addiction. A love now.But a love distorted and affected by addiction. I know the only chance we have is if I detach - and H is in therapy - and 'clean' for minimum of a year, But even then I know he could relapse. I just wish I could move on - but I adore him. We have so many wonderful times together. We share so much. I can't bare to lose him. I know he feels the same. But we are stricken with a disease - and I pray to God we can get 'through this'. I just don't know how. I don't want to walk away from him.....
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:16 PM
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I love this Lara, I write it down all the time in my journal. Just wanted to share it with you as an addition to what Sunshine posted!

You will change from a woman who loves someone else so much it hurts into a woman who loves herself enough to stop the pain.

I changed mine to - I will change from a woman......
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:00 PM
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"relapse. I just wish I could move on - but I adore him. We have so many wonderful times together. We share so much. I can't bare to lose him. I know he feels the same. But we are stricken with a disease - and I pray to God we can get 'through this'. I just don't know how. I don't want to walk away from him..... "

Well, as long as there is a "We" in your verbage, nothing will change. Personally, I think that if you don't want to let him go, then don't. It is your life, yours to live, some spend their entire life being addicted to another, and are willing to do whatever it takes to stay with them. That is an individual choice.

Do what you believe is best for you!
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:45 PM
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Dear Dolllydo, Zozo, Angie, Jody, Englishgarden and everyone else who is offering me so much support.... I have read and re-read all your posts over and over. All of them make sense - which is even more confusing. The comments which suggest 100% NO contact - make sense: But then again the comment from Dollydo, that if I don't want him out of my life, then stay - also feels right!
So I am going to take baby steps. If you don't mind me sharing the plan so far:
1.One thing I can accept and fully introduce into my life right now - is that I have obviously many issues stemming from childhood etc and that I need professional counselling. I will see a therapist from next week.
2. I met with H late yesterday. And I 'shared' my thoughts with him. I thought long and hard about this - I could have written to him - or I could have not said anything at all. But meeting with him felt right for ME. I only told him what is MY truth and what I can realistically manage.Basically this is what I said:
"I love you. I pray for your recovery. I am not in the healthy mind space to accompany you into rehab. I will take attend joint therapy sessions with you but only after 3 months of you been in rehab. I need to work privately on myself and need at least 3 months to do this before attending a joint session. I am not ready for that at this stage. I am not threatening you, bullying you to do anything. But I will not be in contact with you again until (and if) you have been 3 months in rehab. We are two people who love each other - but our love has become destructive. I choose to get off the wheel for both our sakes. God bless you."
2. I return to SA on Saturday - which will help too as it puts a physical distance between us.
So this is my short term goal. I know many members suggest no contact for a year etc. But I can't commit to that. I would be lying to myself if I did. So this is the plan so far.
For one thing I absolutely agree with all of you - is I need time out - and my remaining in contact with an active addict - is the most destructive thing on earth. God knows what will happen after 3 months - perhaps I will have the strength (if it is necessary) to extend it to another 3 months. I don't know now - all I know is until he no longer affects me emotionally in such a negative way (rather until I no longer allow him to affect me) - then no contact is the only option right now. So here goes - day 1!!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:19 PM
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Thumbs up from here, Lara. It is a good plan.

I hope your therapist will help you. What I have learned in therapy (7 years! Those Jungians --is that current grief is very connected to past grief. You lost your beloved brother to a drunk driver. You don't want to lose H to drugs.

I think 3 months is a good plan. You will still have to consciously surrender to the will of your Higher Power and release your ego's desire to control or to predict. Surrender is the essence of recovery. And though it sounds like weakness, it really does take conscious thought and prayer. If you can find help with this, the 3 months will be easier on you.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by EnglishGarden View Post
Thumbs up from here, Lara. It is a good plan.

I hope your therapist will help you. What I have learned in therapy (7 years! Those Jungians --is that current grief is very connected to past grief. You lost your beloved brother to a drunk driver. You don't want to lose H to drugs.

I think 3 months is a good plan. You will still have to consciously surrender to the will of your Higher Power and release your ego's desire to control or to predict. Surrender is the essence of recovery. And though it sounds like weakness, it really does take conscious thought and prayer. If you can find help with this, the 3 months will be easier on you.
Thank you EnglishGarden... I found the books of Ekhart Tolle really help me - remind me of the essence of 'letting go' and just trusting - and to surrender - hand it all over is the ultimate gift for all of us... it is the only way for us to move on with our lives and actually LIVE each day in the PRESENCE - not dwelling on the past or future. The only time we have is NOW.
But the challenge is to keep remembering this and to practise each and every day. You are quite right - that meditation / conscious thought and prayer is critical.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:03 PM
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Lara, sounds like a good plan to me seems you thought it out and set the boundary you can live with.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:16 PM
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Lara - my therapist keeps trying to teach me not to look too far into the future because it becomes overwhelming for me and can cause depression. Three months sounds like a reasonable goal but try keep it in your mind at "One Day at a time."

We are here for you and will walk with you. One Day at a Time!!
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