dollydo

" His going out like that didn't affect me any more than if he had ran out to get milk. "

When he goes out and steals the cow for money to do drugs you may change your mind.

This is a disease that has no cure, it is just a matter of whether he is clean and working a strong recovery program or not, that's it. His disease is progressive and it will get worse, unless a strong recovery program is embraced.

All I can is Good Luck, strap yourself in, you are in for one h#ll of a ride.

secondwind

I can only speak from experience....
Soon after starting the relationship with Addicted Other... i found out he used oxys... did them every so often. He was lovable and sweet on them. I didnt want drugs in my life but they weren't causing any REAL problems i could see.

Fast forward 4 1/2 years... his Drug of choice is cocaine with pills mixed in. PROBLEMS? Loads of them... my kids electronics have been pawned for drugs - what little money i have was stolen for drugs - the mood swings are raging and unpredictable - i have become 2nd to drugs - he would disappear for hours on end - he endangered us with his dealers - he is unable to hold down a job now. He is now in a homeless/rehab shelter for atleast six months. I never thought it would get this far.

Drug addiction is progressive..... it always gets worse. Whether 6 months from now or 6 years from now. Whether you are rich or poor. Whether you are young or old. It will get worse.

It is the nature of the beast.

Carrie

The Belle Of The Ball

dasiydoc

I'm confused by your comment, maybe it can be explained. After reading here I see the overwhelming wisdom is that people need to learn they cannot control another person, and you can't waste your life trying to save them from bad decisions.

What Im saying is I already know this and I'm living it. If my boyfriend were to steal a cow as you have suggested, how exactly would that impact me personally? Are you suggesting I get hysterical, chase him and the cow around town, try to take the cow from him and return it to the rightful owner? Insert myself into his cow stealing problems?

Not trying to be sarcastic, but if he were to steal a cow, the only question I would have to ask myself is do I want to be with someone that would steal a cow?

Also, are you endorsing that I make negative projections into the future and predict my boyfriend won't get help, stop using? How is that different than putting on rose colored glasses and saying for sure he will get help and stop using? What color glasses do you put on when you view the Future negatively? All any of us have is today, isn't that true?

What I see in my boyfriend is a person who has a pattern of making good choices over time, who has had great accomplishments in his life, and who had a defined set of goals and met them. He knows he needs to stop, and figure this out. Based on his past history, if I had to wager I would say he will do it when he is ready. Still none of that has anything to do with me.

dollydo

I am not in any way suggesting that you get all mad or hysterical. My point is that, if he does not have a good source of money he will start stealing from you and/or anyone.

As the disease progresses, many legal issues come into play, most will be arrested and that will effect your relationship.

Sitting and watching him use is not going to prompt him to recover.

You can wager and believe anything you want to, just as I can, I do know one thing...nothing in life remains constant, it either gets better or worse,I have dealt with addicition for a very long time, and, I am convinced without a strong recovery program...for life, it will get worse.

It is apparent to me that you have all the answers, so, I will bow out of this post.

Good Luck!

secondwind

I read through your first post again You might want to do the same.

What stood out to me... you admitted he is an addict. You admitted it wasn't normal, so it effects your relationship and probably the future.

What also stood out is you saying you want him to know drug use is not going to be ok for the long term. I am confused why it would be ok now bit not five years from now.

You are.correct you can not make him stop.

Some choose to live with active addicts but set healthy boundaries ffor when the addict is using.

I dont see you doing that though. I feel you saying " use.if you want now i won't complain, but if you are still using in ten years you will have to stop."

There is a small concern i wanted to express... don't ignore and approve of his drug use just because you want him to like you.

U can stay with him... just set healthy.boundaries... like choosing not.to be around people high on drugs. Dont let him think drug use.is ok.

CARRIE

The Belle Of The Ball

dasiydoc

I will try to start over because I realize people here on the family side have knowledge that can be helpful to me. I don’t think I know very much at all about being in a relationship with an addict, and I can use whatever information you want to share. I don’t really know what the accepted definition of “addict” is here on this forum. Right now I consider my boyfriend to be addicted because I see him using it because he needs to for emotional support, and also he has told me that when he has tried to stop he has physical symptoms like anxiety and depression. I understand more about this part than anything else. I don’t think having withdrawals makes him an addict because the drug has specific effects on the body and that starts with the first use. I do understand that some of this becomes progressive If he chooses to continue to use.

This may not be popular as I have had someone tell me already over and over, that they believe a person has to commit to a strong recovery program for life. I wont argue some people need that, but to me that is like saying all fat people have to commit to a strong weight maintenance program for life. When really most people are able to get treatment, resolve emotional causes, allow their body to recover, learn behavior modification techniques, and then practice what they have learned, regulate and maintain their balance on their own. I actually find it insulting to say the majority of people in the world are incapable of this. This is my belief. Everyone else can believe what they want.

I think what some people are misunderstanding is that Im not sitting around watching my boyfriend use drugs, and he is not out partying, there are not a group of friends and him in the garage or basement getting high. Right now with him, the best way I can describe it is to say it is transparent. I don’t see it, I don’t feel it. Now that I know there are very subtle things I have learned to pick up like sometimes he will become more talkative, or has more energy when I know he should be tired. None of his friends know. None of the people we work with know.

I would like to understand about healthy boundaries. I was under the impression that boundaries were things you set to take care of yourself, and they are not supposed to be about having a positive or negative effect on my boyfriend. What I have expressed to him is that I think drugs are dangerous, and I don’t think he will be able to be the person he wants, have the career he wants ,lead the life he wants if he continues to use drugs. I don’t go around criticizing him, or pressuring him to stop right this minute, but I do try to remind him that he cant grow and evolve if he is tied to drugs because they will bring him down at some point. Also I have explained to him that behavior we have both witnessed as common addict things; out of control, crazy, violent, lying, stealing, disrespectful, (some of what he put his parents through) that I wont be around if that starts because I wont get dragged down and ruin my career and the things I want in my future. I don’t know if you call that a boundary.

We don’t live together, but I will admit we spend a lot of time together when we are able to, and often one of us will stay the night at the others place. It would be very hard for me to set a boundary that I wont be around him when he is using. My first reason would be that right now, his using doesn’t affect me, or cause me to get upset, so Im not sure what the point would be. My second reason would be that I wouldn’t always be able to tell. I would have to ask him (and then it would be a matter of trust) or I would have to drug test him. I don’t like either of these options. My third reason is that I don’t want to cause him to hide what he is doing from me because then I think he will also suppress sharing his feelings, and I don’t think that is healthy for him, and I think as a girlfriend that is something he should feel safe sharing with me. I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone. If I am thinking about it different then I will listen to how others handle it in their lives. Im only trying to relay my feelings which someone here encouraged me to do.

The last thing I will share and I know some people will think it is only manipulation on his part, but it is that my boyfriend is the type to plan and figure things out in advance of taking on a challenge. I see him reading things about addiction, cocaine. A few weeks back after he had done some reading on Cocaine Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous he decided he wanted to go to one. But he is very, very anxious about being seen by someone he knows or who might know him. I wont get into all that but it is a legitimate worry. He asked if I would go with him, and I was curious myself, and I wanted to support him too, so we drove almost 40 miles away to go to a meeting that he found online. I know it takes more than one meeting to get a feel for it, but he came away feeling it was not for him. I like aspects of it, but others I don’t. Its not my choice however. He is thinking that maybe finding a specialist to work with alone would be best. He does not want it to go through his insurance, and he also wants to find one out of our area. How he is going to make these road trips to visit the doctor I don’t know. He also found an online site (not this one) and he has talked to a couple of people. Maybe all people don’t have trouble getting started in recovery, so maybe this sounds like he is not really trying to some of you, but I see him trying to figure it out. Sometimes he gets upset, he cries, he says he doesn’t know how this happened to him, he is scared. Im glad he can share these feelings with me and I don’t think they are fake. If he is fooling me, then all I can say is shame on me for being a sucker and bad judge of character.

All of this is not what our relationship is about primarily. Like we went away last weekend and went skiing and had a lot of fun. We cooked dinner together tonight and watched a movie. Now he is doing some work for tomorrow, and Im messing here with the computer. To know if he was high I would be guessing. Since he plans on working for a while tonight my guess is he did take something,or he will later.

EnglishGarden

Daisydoc,

At some point in our involvement with a drug addict, every opinion, every point of view, every attitude toward addiction, recovery, the addict, the relationship, and ourselves is all just shattered. Shattered.

We realize we are completely defeated. That we know absolutely nothing about addiction, except that it has brought into our lives the most intense emotional pain and confusion and hopelessness we have known in relationship.

This will be your future if he does not seek recovery. Right now, the train is rolling toward that stop.

It will be best if you use very good birth control.

secondwind

What you just described is a strong recovery program, imo.

There are many paths to recovery to choose from - therapy, meetings, self help work. There not one recovery program that works for everyone. But it is for life. Once that "fat" person stops working their program they will get fat again. That fat person might go to the gym every day for months to get to a healthy.weight... once they are at that weight they might be able to just go twice a week or once a week and find other activities like mountain biking to maintain.

Ugg i really hate this "fat" talk... lol.

If your BF was an overeater and was putting on weight it wouldn't effect you right now so much. A few pounds but really fun to be with and he was still active. Ten years down the road that weight he is still gaining is going to effect his health and activity level... that will effect you.

Carrie

The Belle Of The Ball

Sungrl

All else aside, I think you are serioulsy downplaying the dangers of this paticular drug. Cocain is an extremely addictive habit to have. It will kill him. You equate it to running out and buying milk. Yikes. The choices you make are yours and you can only take from SR what you want, but IMO you are in for a living hell and I hate to think what your future will involve. Good luck to you.

outtolunch

He is blaming them. This is addiction.

LoveMeNow

IMO, you are minimizing his drug addiction. And the mere fact you are the one here looking for answers and help for him and NOT him....speaks volumes. Be careful about lying to yourself, most of us have been there, done that! Denial is a powerful drug.

My husband was addicted to pain killers. He had the ability to maintain and balance....until he couldn't. His addiction progressed and when he went down, I went right down with him because of my own denial and ignorance.

P.S. If you never noticed withdrawals (insomnia, restless leg, diarrhea, lethargic, to name the milder ones) - he still taking pills.

P.S.S. Addicts always lie about their drug use. It doesn't matter if you "allow" him to be honest about it - he will NEVER be. It's part of the disease. He will protect it at all costs.

LoveMeNow

Here is an informative article for you!

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

SundaysChild

You need to choose your boundaries. Right now, it seems that your boundary is that you won't be in a relationship with an addict whose addiction bothers you more than occasionally.

Most of us who have been dealing with addiction for years have tighter boundaries, which is why you are hearing caution in our replies.

Just as an addict will only seek recovery when he is ready, because until then his drug of choice meets more needs than it causes problems, we who love addicts also need to "be ready" to focus on ourselves.

Keep reading literature, keep posting here, and go to an AlAnon meeting when you're ready.

kmangel

As with other aspects of a relationship, if the relationship is to become a permanent one (such as in marriage) it is important to be on the same page with issues such as religion, children (having them or not), finances and intimacy. Otherwise, the two persons are going to clash. If you don't use drugs and your boyfriend does, don't you think eventually his drug use is going to drive a wedge between you? It is not like him leaving the toilet seat up that is annoying to you--with no real harm being done. Drug addiction is a big, serious issue.

Think long and hard about what awaits you in the future with this man. Drug addiction is progressive. It wont stop at just him leaving the toilet seat up.

crazybabie

I would like to suggest that if you have not already that you read the sticky at the top titled To newbies Why people respond the way they do.

When I first joined here I "thought" my situation was UNIQUE there was no way in H3ll
that the addicts in my life would ever do what some of the people that are here family did, well I was WRONG as the disease progressed they did the same things if not exactly very similar.

We are only as sick as our secrets.

Only you can decide what you will accept in your life I agree with the person who said not have kids, are you aware that if someone has a parent that is an addict or alcoholic they have a 50% chance of becoming or marrying one?

The post about a strong recovery program is right any addict who is recovering or in recovery will vouch for that. Your bf can't just put the drug down by your own admission he starts having withdrawl and picks it back up.

Your being there for him is good but honestly he needs help from other addicts/recovering addicts a therapist could also be helpful.

Have you asked yourself why it is OK too you for now but not years from now? This disease only gets worse if not treated this is his path to travel he will stop only when he is sick and tired of being sick and tired.

From the post you have made thus far it appears to me you have NO clue what you may be in for that is where working on us comes in at.

MrsDragon

Reading your post is difficult for me because I can almost visualize you being one of the women in my sons life. He has been using cocaine off and on for two years. It is a very dangerous drug. There is a risk of overdose every time it's used. And generally the quantity required to get the same high has to increase because tolerance levels go up. It effects the heart, blood pressure, the pleasure centers of the brain. Most likely that is why your boyfriend gets depressed without it. It also acts to remove inhibitions and alter reality. Things that a person would normally never do, well they seem not so bad, or even like a brilliant idea when high. I would be concerned about his doing work while high because he is most likely not thinking in a balanced objective way. Our son made some horrible choices related to his work while high. And also cocaine is a sexual stimulant. Pair that with loss of inhibitions and you will be lucky if he remains faithful to you despite the love that exists between you.

I don't say this to hurt you. I watched my son get involved with his best friends wife. The three of them had been friends a long time. She reminds me a great deal of you. She listened to him, felt his pain, and he did have a sad and tragic story outside of the drugs, they started an affair, she fell hopelessly into saving him, thinking it was all love. It ended with her coming close to an emotional breakdown and almost destroying her marriage. It also ended up hurting our son and not helping him.

For a long time now he has had throw away girlfriends. He uses them and moves on. I'm not saying your boyfriend is doing this to you, it sounds like you have known each other a longer time, and have got to know one another. But I would still question if he is really giving you what you need. Our son has footed the bill for some great vacations, long weekends, very nice gifts, but right now he is not capable of giving what most women want, and that is his heart, pure love, and emotional stability.

You said as a girlfriend, you want him to be able to talk to you and share. I think that is a good thing, and normal. But can you talk to him, share your feelings, your fears, can you cry and confide in him? Or are you afraid he can't handle that? I would be careful not to get in the role of playing the strong one, that nothing bothers you, that your not afraid. If you are doing that then in my opinion the relationship is already unbalanced emotionally.

You are right in that things don't always get worse, people can get help, and they can recover and regain physical and emotional health.

You are saying basically if his behavior gets worse then you will abandon ship. Can you really do that, because it sounds easy but a teary eyed boyfriend who only wants one more chance makes it hard. And lots times people don't realize the ship is going down until the lifeboats are already cast off, and to save yourself you will need strength and an inner gps to get to the shore.

LoveMeNow

Great post MrsDragon!!

dasiydoc

LoveMeNow,

Thanks for the article you provided. These things stand out to me.
“He becomes a practiced and profligate liar in all matters related to the defense and preservation of his addiction, even though prior to the onset of his addictive illness, and often still in areas as yet untouched by the addiction, he may be scrupulously honest"

and I see him being ok in the other parts of his life right now. He may lie as you say about his addiction and how much and all that, but I think he lies less and is more open because I dont attack him, or make him feel guilty and shameful when he does it.

And this part:

"[Family involvement with] Questions, discussions, presentations of facts, confrontations, pleas, threats, ultimatums and arguments are characteristic of this process, which in more fortunate and less severe cases of addiction may sometimes actually succeed in its aim of arresting the addiction. But in the more serious or advanced cases all such human counter-attacks upon the addiction, even, indeed especially when they come from those closest and dearest to the addict, fall upon deaf ears and a hardened heart."

So when I read this, I mean you really don’t know if you have a less severe case which may respond to family intervention and the kind-type of help, or a severe case which wont. In my case, I have no proof he is a severe case yet. so I dont feel its right to skip to that judgement.

dasiydoc

I started to cry a little while after I read your post, like something sunk in. In some ways I do think Im playing the part of being strong with my boyfriend. I can talk to him about all the things that are going on in my life with friends, family, my work, or my school (Im sort of like a grad student) and I feel like he is present during those conversations. But I am afraid to talk to him about my fears of his drug use, or how I feel when I know he is high, thinking about him going in the other room and getting high, what I would do if he did overdose, or if I came in to find him one day and he died all alone. I keep it from him because I don’t think it is healthy to put all that on him. I don’t know if that is wrong for me but I guess it doesn’t make things equal between us. Im sorry about your son having this same problem. It sounds like you understand a lot about his problems, it has to be really sad for you. I will think more about all this. Thank you.

and I get what you are saying about the sex drug relationship. But we have known each other a while and I dont think he is using me in that way, or has no real feelings for me. Ive read a few posts on here about can an addict really love. I think they can, it may be altered some from what they would be able to give if not on drugs, more selfish in some ways. i guess it is an thing with balance and what is acceptable for me.
lot to think about

LoveMeNow

Daisydoc, If anyone is using a drug on a daily basis (or often) to feel "normal, " it's a severe problem. Cocaine is very psychologically addicting and is hard to stop even without the physical withdrawals of other drugs.

I know people who used cocaine so often they burnt out the cartilage in their nose. She now has a flat, smooshy nose. One burnt a hole through the roof of her mouth and had to have a plug put in. She now talks very strangely. Another healthy 23 yr old died in his sleep after using cocaine. Another girl I knew, did one line and went into cardiac arrest. I know of guy how could no longer afford cocaine and went to crack, lost everything (wife, son, job, house, car), 5 rehabs later, he is still using. I know couples who did drugs together and they still lied about their usage.

Unlike many of here, you are in this relationship with full knowledge of the problem. You are a willing participant. I sincerely wish you all best. Keep educating yourself.