NEW to this and need HELP!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
Now, about my attitude. I DO NOT mean to come across as defiant or in denial. I am coming here for help, on my knees. Defiance or offense is not a part of this equation, to me. YOU are doing ME a favor by giving me advice based on your vast experience and knowledge. Again, my knowledge about addiction is very little, and my experience is still in its infancy.
Last night my wife and I had a LONG talk. We cried together, re-affirmed our commitment to beating this demon of addiction. She is SO SCARED. She trembled as she spoke. She realizes that she has a LONG LONG way to go, but she is willing to give 100%. At this point in things (at the very start), is this not where she should be? Where WE should be?
I am VERY confused and afraid. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think that EVERY WORD of EVERY POST is not important to me, because it is. It is VITAL! YOU are vital! I am LOST, I came to YOU for help. I only ask questions to better understand, NOT to try and be defensive. Remember, it is I that needs YOU. And THANK GOD for you people, this site, and your willingness to guide and direct a "sucker" like me
Last night my wife and I had a LONG talk. We cried together, re-affirmed our commitment to beating this demon of addiction. She is SO SCARED. She trembled as she spoke. She realizes that she has a LONG LONG way to go, but she is willing to give 100%. At this point in things (at the very start), is this not where she should be? Where WE should be?
I am VERY confused and afraid. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think that EVERY WORD of EVERY POST is not important to me, because it is. It is VITAL! YOU are vital! I am LOST, I came to YOU for help. I only ask questions to better understand, NOT to try and be defensive. Remember, it is I that needs YOU. And THANK GOD for you people, this site, and your willingness to guide and direct a "sucker" like me
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 598
Is your wife making a concerted effort to leave behind and never see again people like Amy? Her whole life is going to have to change--the people she hangs out with, the places she goes to, the things she does.
For my son, what I see as one thing that has really helped him in his recovery is moving away from his "playmates". Where he grew up, his friends that are still there, are all triggers for his drug abusing lifestyle. He now lives over 700 miles away from where he was an addict and is doing well.
For my son, what I see as one thing that has really helped him in his recovery is moving away from his "playmates". Where he grew up, his friends that are still there, are all triggers for his drug abusing lifestyle. He now lives over 700 miles away from where he was an addict and is doing well.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 124
Shaolin5,
My writing wasn't intended to be taken as an attack, only a strongly-worded attempt to help you see what may be going on in your situation, having "been there and done that." In my case, I did insanely stupid, self-destructive things –*over and over – as I tried to "help" or "save" (or whatever) my partner.
The main thing that I had trouble understanding was how I contributed to the problem. Not that I had anything to do with my partner's addiction, but my attitudes and distorted thinking were causing me to suffer in a way I had never before suffered. Oh, how I wanted to say "F**k you" to all the well-meaning folks who were trying to help me see my part in the problem... it took time for me, once I started going to Nar-Anon here in Argentina, to understand that what I was going through was not unique. My reactions were not unique, my reasoning was not unique, my suffering was not unique. And my partner was not unique – he was doing the same stuff that I heard about from hundreds of other loved ones of addicted persons. And it took me a long time to understand the depth of the lying, and to stop taking it personally, but to also protect myself and not be so naive.
In terms of your son, I have a personal experience that I want to share. About 4 years ago, my best friend from the States came to Buenos Aires for a two month visit. She and I are family and have grown together for almost 30 years – it's a precious and constant relationship. Now, at that time, I had known my partner (Franco) for about 6 months – we weren't quite "partners" yet, but we knew we had something special going on and he was staying with me often. His drug use was completely "hidden" from me, as I had no prior experience with such things and personally never in my life had used anything. About a week before my friend arrived, some things happened and I started learning the truth about Franco's drug use. Still, I knew nothing of that world, so as we talked about his desire to stop using, I assumed that that was what would now happen: he told me that he didn't want that in his life anymore, so, of course, I thought that he would stop.
My best friend arrived (she was staying with me) and as soon as she met Franco she started feeling uncomfortable. After he had stayed a few nights, she began to talk to me about it, but I was already so lost in the drama that I basically ignored her. After a few weeks, he began to visit me obviously drugged, treated me with indifference, and came and went dispassionately, as if my place was basically a hotel. But now I was feeling more than love – now MY sickness was kicking in and I started to ignore the mistreatment, ignore the antisocial behavior, and increased my level of enabling day by day.
A month into her visit, my best friend and I were walking in the street and she was talking about Franco and I said that I didn't understand what she had against him. I mentioned some of the hard times that he was going through, the abuse he grew up with, his desire to be clean... She burst into tears and said, "It's not him – it's you! I can't believe that you allow him to be in the house with me! How can you allow your best friend to live in place where a crack addict crashes? I'm terrified! I feel so unsafe – I'm in a foreign country, I came to be with you, and there's a crack addict in your house!"
This is a person with whom I have shared the majority of my life. As friends, we are committed to each other –*I expect to know her until I die. And I, with my ever-deepening codependent behavior, was putting her in danger. She was my guest and I thought nothing about having my drugged boyfriend come and go, filling the house with his black energy, and making my best friend fear for her life.
At that point, I woke up – just a little – and told Franco that he couldn't visit while my best friend was staying with me. Now, my friend and I patched things up, but it wasn't until a few years later that I really began to understand what my actions at that time truly reflected. [And surely, anyone here who has entered into recovery understands what I'm talking about.] That I had put the safety of another BEFORE the "needs" of my addict boyfriend is a BIG problem –*I was lost, completely lost, in a fog of twisted, extremely unhealthy codependent behavior.
And what about the safety of my friend? Was she being overly dramatic? Not in any way: after she returned to the States, Franco started coming back to visit and to stay the night occasionally. Just two weeks after my best friend left, Franco came to my place completely inebriated, able to speak only a few words extremely slowly. At that point, we had never had a "bad" moment, and, as I already said, I was not familiar at all with drug use, so I thought it would be like a Hollywood movie: he'd sleep it off and the next day be just a little groggy.
Well, after a short while, he proceeded to take a cigarette out and sat down on the floor. I said, "Fran, you know you can't smoke in here." He then took a small packet out of his pocket and said (very slowly) "You see this? This is 'paco' [basically, paco is crack] A friend who isn't a friend gave it to me and I'm going to smoke it right now." My head started to reel and I went to take it out of his hand and he grabbed a metal something off the floor and threatened to hit me with it. I backed off and watched as he prepared his drug and started to consume it. At the moment he first inhaled, he looked up at me and I saw his soul fly out of his eyes as he said, "Save me, Jack."
That night was hell, true hell. He tore the place apart, threatened me constantly with violence, holding a knife in his hand, and spent hours screaming profanities about his father, who had raped Franco and his twin sister repeatedly. The sweet, loving guy that I had known for about 8 months was gone – in his place was a monster.
So, my best friend was in no ways out of line – I had put her in a dangerous situation and violated her trust. It took me years to understand that it was MY illness that led me to behave in such a way, and that I had a whole lot of work to do on myself to get better. Shaolin5, do you see why I shared this story with you?
Please keep posting, please keep digging. I may write a bit forcefully at times, but I am trying to do so without judging. My life was a disaster and it took me quite a while to begin to understand why. Recovery is an ongoing process and I will always be learning, and, hopefully, always improving. I sincerely hope that your wife picks herself up – I hope every addicted person can do so – and I hope that she will put the world of Amy behind her, forever. But you need to begin working on yourself, for your protection, and for your own growth, as well as for the health and safety of your son.
I send you an enormous, loving hug, for you, your son, and your wife.
My writing wasn't intended to be taken as an attack, only a strongly-worded attempt to help you see what may be going on in your situation, having "been there and done that." In my case, I did insanely stupid, self-destructive things –*over and over – as I tried to "help" or "save" (or whatever) my partner.
The main thing that I had trouble understanding was how I contributed to the problem. Not that I had anything to do with my partner's addiction, but my attitudes and distorted thinking were causing me to suffer in a way I had never before suffered. Oh, how I wanted to say "F**k you" to all the well-meaning folks who were trying to help me see my part in the problem... it took time for me, once I started going to Nar-Anon here in Argentina, to understand that what I was going through was not unique. My reactions were not unique, my reasoning was not unique, my suffering was not unique. And my partner was not unique – he was doing the same stuff that I heard about from hundreds of other loved ones of addicted persons. And it took me a long time to understand the depth of the lying, and to stop taking it personally, but to also protect myself and not be so naive.
In terms of your son, I have a personal experience that I want to share. About 4 years ago, my best friend from the States came to Buenos Aires for a two month visit. She and I are family and have grown together for almost 30 years – it's a precious and constant relationship. Now, at that time, I had known my partner (Franco) for about 6 months – we weren't quite "partners" yet, but we knew we had something special going on and he was staying with me often. His drug use was completely "hidden" from me, as I had no prior experience with such things and personally never in my life had used anything. About a week before my friend arrived, some things happened and I started learning the truth about Franco's drug use. Still, I knew nothing of that world, so as we talked about his desire to stop using, I assumed that that was what would now happen: he told me that he didn't want that in his life anymore, so, of course, I thought that he would stop.
My best friend arrived (she was staying with me) and as soon as she met Franco she started feeling uncomfortable. After he had stayed a few nights, she began to talk to me about it, but I was already so lost in the drama that I basically ignored her. After a few weeks, he began to visit me obviously drugged, treated me with indifference, and came and went dispassionately, as if my place was basically a hotel. But now I was feeling more than love – now MY sickness was kicking in and I started to ignore the mistreatment, ignore the antisocial behavior, and increased my level of enabling day by day.
A month into her visit, my best friend and I were walking in the street and she was talking about Franco and I said that I didn't understand what she had against him. I mentioned some of the hard times that he was going through, the abuse he grew up with, his desire to be clean... She burst into tears and said, "It's not him – it's you! I can't believe that you allow him to be in the house with me! How can you allow your best friend to live in place where a crack addict crashes? I'm terrified! I feel so unsafe – I'm in a foreign country, I came to be with you, and there's a crack addict in your house!"
This is a person with whom I have shared the majority of my life. As friends, we are committed to each other –*I expect to know her until I die. And I, with my ever-deepening codependent behavior, was putting her in danger. She was my guest and I thought nothing about having my drugged boyfriend come and go, filling the house with his black energy, and making my best friend fear for her life.
At that point, I woke up – just a little – and told Franco that he couldn't visit while my best friend was staying with me. Now, my friend and I patched things up, but it wasn't until a few years later that I really began to understand what my actions at that time truly reflected. [And surely, anyone here who has entered into recovery understands what I'm talking about.] That I had put the safety of another BEFORE the "needs" of my addict boyfriend is a BIG problem –*I was lost, completely lost, in a fog of twisted, extremely unhealthy codependent behavior.
And what about the safety of my friend? Was she being overly dramatic? Not in any way: after she returned to the States, Franco started coming back to visit and to stay the night occasionally. Just two weeks after my best friend left, Franco came to my place completely inebriated, able to speak only a few words extremely slowly. At that point, we had never had a "bad" moment, and, as I already said, I was not familiar at all with drug use, so I thought it would be like a Hollywood movie: he'd sleep it off and the next day be just a little groggy.
Well, after a short while, he proceeded to take a cigarette out and sat down on the floor. I said, "Fran, you know you can't smoke in here." He then took a small packet out of his pocket and said (very slowly) "You see this? This is 'paco' [basically, paco is crack] A friend who isn't a friend gave it to me and I'm going to smoke it right now." My head started to reel and I went to take it out of his hand and he grabbed a metal something off the floor and threatened to hit me with it. I backed off and watched as he prepared his drug and started to consume it. At the moment he first inhaled, he looked up at me and I saw his soul fly out of his eyes as he said, "Save me, Jack."
That night was hell, true hell. He tore the place apart, threatened me constantly with violence, holding a knife in his hand, and spent hours screaming profanities about his father, who had raped Franco and his twin sister repeatedly. The sweet, loving guy that I had known for about 8 months was gone – in his place was a monster.
So, my best friend was in no ways out of line – I had put her in a dangerous situation and violated her trust. It took me years to understand that it was MY illness that led me to behave in such a way, and that I had a whole lot of work to do on myself to get better. Shaolin5, do you see why I shared this story with you?
Please keep posting, please keep digging. I may write a bit forcefully at times, but I am trying to do so without judging. My life was a disaster and it took me quite a while to begin to understand why. Recovery is an ongoing process and I will always be learning, and, hopefully, always improving. I sincerely hope that your wife picks herself up – I hope every addicted person can do so – and I hope that she will put the world of Amy behind her, forever. But you need to begin working on yourself, for your protection, and for your own growth, as well as for the health and safety of your son.
I send you an enormous, loving hug, for you, your son, and your wife.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
"Last night my wife and I had a LONG talk. We cried together, re-affirmed our commitment to beating this demon of addiction. She is SO SCARED. She trembled as she spoke. She realizes that she has a LONG LONG way to go, but she is willing to give 100%. At this point in things (at the very start), is this not where she should be? Where WE should be?"
My husband I had many of those emotional talks where we both cried and he said everything I wanted to hear. I think he meant them at the time and I believed every word he said. For me, it just gave me a false sense of hope. Addiction is just so powerful.
Time after time, he lied to me. He told me he was clean and I believed him. I thought he could just stop, like a smoker quits cigarettes. Its hard but doable. Right?? Then I joined here, I was told many painful things that I didn't want to hear. My husband was different, I kept thinking. When I was told his brained had been rewired to sustain and protect his addiction, I thought those were just exaggerated words, until I read more and more about addiction.
Eventually my husband wanted recovery but it took A LOT to get there. I could write a novel. The pain of using finally became more then the fear of quitting. His DOC (drug of choice) was pain pills. It is a daily struggle, hence the slogans...just for today, one day at a time, etc. The addict mind is very cunning and baffling, and there is no cure for it.
Less then 10% (probably much less and definitely less for crack addiction) recover for life. Her brain chemistry has been forever changed, those are just not words, it a scientific fact. Keep reading!!
My husband I had many of those emotional talks where we both cried and he said everything I wanted to hear. I think he meant them at the time and I believed every word he said. For me, it just gave me a false sense of hope. Addiction is just so powerful.
Time after time, he lied to me. He told me he was clean and I believed him. I thought he could just stop, like a smoker quits cigarettes. Its hard but doable. Right?? Then I joined here, I was told many painful things that I didn't want to hear. My husband was different, I kept thinking. When I was told his brained had been rewired to sustain and protect his addiction, I thought those were just exaggerated words, until I read more and more about addiction.
Eventually my husband wanted recovery but it took A LOT to get there. I could write a novel. The pain of using finally became more then the fear of quitting. His DOC (drug of choice) was pain pills. It is a daily struggle, hence the slogans...just for today, one day at a time, etc. The addict mind is very cunning and baffling, and there is no cure for it.
Less then 10% (probably much less and definitely less for crack addiction) recover for life. Her brain chemistry has been forever changed, those are just not words, it a scientific fact. Keep reading!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Whew.....breathe.......most of us have been where you're right now. Anxious. Scared. And desperately seeking information.
Addiction is scary. The more you know and learn about addiction and codependence, the better equipped you will be to deal with it. I believe what the addict in my life DOES....not what he says he's going to do. Actions are what matter.
Stick around. Ask questions. Take what you need and leave (or store) the rest. Dealing with addiction and codependence is a journey.....we'll walk with you.
gentle hugs
ke
Addiction is scary. The more you know and learn about addiction and codependence, the better equipped you will be to deal with it. I believe what the addict in my life DOES....not what he says he's going to do. Actions are what matter.
Stick around. Ask questions. Take what you need and leave (or store) the rest. Dealing with addiction and codependence is a journey.....we'll walk with you.
gentle hugs
ke
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
Thanks, I found it.
By the way, one time I found some Bud Light cans dented with holes poked in them. It was obviously used as a bowl to smoke with. I also found a spoon that had a sugary looking substance on it (I assume it had to do with crack). But I have never, ever found a glass pipe of any kind.
I used to go through her stuff to see what I could find. Found lots of empty baggies, and several of those cans, but never a pipe.
I have decided to give it a week or so, then I'm going to give her a drug test. Her refusal to take one will be the same as her failing one. Then it's either rehab or divorce.
By the way, one time I found some Bud Light cans dented with holes poked in them. It was obviously used as a bowl to smoke with. I also found a spoon that had a sugary looking substance on it (I assume it had to do with crack). But I have never, ever found a glass pipe of any kind.
I used to go through her stuff to see what I could find. Found lots of empty baggies, and several of those cans, but never a pipe.
I have decided to give it a week or so, then I'm going to give her a drug test. Her refusal to take one will be the same as her failing one. Then it's either rehab or divorce.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by shaolin5 
Thanks, I found it.
By the way, one time I found some Bud Light cans dented with holes poked in them. It was obviously used as a bowl to smoke with. I also found a spoon that had a sugary looking substance on it (I assume it had to do with crack). But I have never, ever found a glass pipe of any kind.
I used to go through her stuff to see what I could find. Found lots of empty baggies, and several of those cans, but never a pipe.
I have decided to give it a week or so, then I'm going to give her a drug test. Her refusal to take one will be the same as her failing one. Then it's either rehab or divorce.
By the way, one time I found some Bud Light cans dented with holes poked in them. It was obviously used as a bowl to smoke with. I also found a spoon that had a sugary looking substance on it (I assume it had to do with crack). But I have never, ever found a glass pipe of any kind.
I used to go through her stuff to see what I could find. Found lots of empty baggies, and several of those cans, but never a pipe.
I have decided to give it a week or so, then I'm going to give her a drug test. Her refusal to take one will be the same as her failing one. Then it's either rehab or divorce.
One thing that does happen with drug abuse is emotional growth is stunted. Your wife is not the age emotionally that she is chronologically.
I hope your wife will do what it takes to recover fully.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Now what are you going to do about you? How are you going to get healthy? Have you thought about Alanon, reading Codependent No More, or seeing a therapist? Of course you dont have to answer to me or on here, just something for YOU to think about. You matter too!! 
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by cynical one
There's nothing classy about crack. Did you choose the name Amy as in "If you seek Amy"?
Take a read through the Trujillo Papers.
http://www.janushead.org/7-1/Trujillo2.pdf
Take a read through the Trujillo Papers.
http://www.janushead.org/7-1/Trujillo2.pdf
After reading this, let me say this again, protect your son and you. Find a therapist well educated on addiction for YOU. No wonder so few have ever kicked this drug.
(marriage counseling at this time.....seems pointless).
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
Originally Posted by shaolin5
Thanks, I found it.
By the way, one time I found some Bud Light cans dented with holes poked in them. It was obviously used as a bowl to smoke with. I also found a spoon that had a sugary looking substance on it (I assume it had to do with crack). But I have never, ever found a glass pipe of any kind.
I used to go through her stuff to see what I could find. Found lots of empty baggies, and several of those cans, but never a pipe.
I have decided to give it a week or so, then I'm going to give her a drug test. Her refusal to take one will be the same as her failing one. Then it's either rehab or divorce.
By the way, one time I found some Bud Light cans dented with holes poked in them. It was obviously used as a bowl to smoke with. I also found a spoon that had a sugary looking substance on it (I assume it had to do with crack). But I have never, ever found a glass pipe of any kind.
I used to go through her stuff to see what I could find. Found lots of empty baggies, and several of those cans, but never a pipe.
I have decided to give it a week or so, then I'm going to give her a drug test. Her refusal to take one will be the same as her failing one. Then it's either rehab or divorce.
I am not trying to offend you but she is your wife NOT your child do you really wanna play drug tester? That is something we learn we usually should NOT do.
I understand you will do what YOU feel is right for YOU. and that is your right.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
That article "An Existential-Phenomenology of Crack Cocaine Abuse" is beyond disturbing. Someone with knowledge, please tell me not all addiction is THAT evil??
I know addiction is addiction but are some worse then others?
I know addiction is addiction but are some worse then others?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
LMN, I read that article as well my oldest son says his DOC is pot however he always seemed to be doing crack scary scary. I am trying to get as strong as I can for when he is released from the correctional facility but I do feel weak where he is concerned.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
That article "An Existential-Phenomenology of Crack Cocaine Abuse" is beyond disturbing. Someone with knowledge, please tell me not all addiction is THAT evil??
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