NEW to this and need HELP!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
It sounds like I am being argumentative here. I'm not. I'm just trying to wrap my head around things, and bringing this to people who have their own experiences with this to try and find balance.
One thing I hadn't mentioned yet is my wife's sister. She too used to be mixed up with "Amy". She ran around, smoking crack and just showed her ass in general for years. Then one day she moved to North Carolina with some guy and her family didn't hear from her for a while.
One day she just showed up at her parents house. Just out of the blue. That guy had thrown her out and had burned all of her things in the yard. She was "skinny as a rail" and had nothing but the clothes on her back. FrOm that day on, she has been 100% drug free (as far as I or anybody else knows). That was like, 5 years ago.
One thing I hadn't mentioned yet is my wife's sister. She too used to be mixed up with "Amy". She ran around, smoking crack and just showed her ass in general for years. Then one day she moved to North Carolina with some guy and her family didn't hear from her for a while.
One day she just showed up at her parents house. Just out of the blue. That guy had thrown her out and had burned all of her things in the yard. She was "skinny as a rail" and had nothing but the clothes on her back. FrOm that day on, she has been 100% drug free (as far as I or anybody else knows). That was like, 5 years ago.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
Sorry about that, I'm on an iPhone at work. Anyway, I'm NOT suggesting that that is what is going to happen with my wife. I'm just saying that her sister's story (which happened WAY BEFORE I met my wife) kinda gives me hope, as false as it may be.
Sometimes I wish I had a lie detector. Then all of my questions could have an answer. The addiction is one thing. The odd behavior when "IT" is happening is another. But I can honestly say that if she has been unfaithful that I could walk away from her very easily. Am I a fool? My new-husband frame of mind keeps going back to cheating. It's like Drinking and driving would be bad, but FAR FAR worse if you have a child in the car. That's how I see this. Smoking. Ra k and snorting cocaine twice a month is bad, but cheating on me is so much worse.
My mind is so cluttered and confused right now. I KNOW I have it all backwards, but in this place I at least have access to knowledge
Sometimes I wish I had a lie detector. Then all of my questions could have an answer. The addiction is one thing. The odd behavior when "IT" is happening is another. But I can honestly say that if she has been unfaithful that I could walk away from her very easily. Am I a fool? My new-husband frame of mind keeps going back to cheating. It's like Drinking and driving would be bad, but FAR FAR worse if you have a child in the car. That's how I see this. Smoking. Ra k and snorting cocaine twice a month is bad, but cheating on me is so much worse.
My mind is so cluttered and confused right now. I KNOW I have it all backwards, but in this place I at least have access to knowledge
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Savannah Georgia
Posts: 124
your son
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not leave your child alone with this woman ever again! Please! She is an addict. It doesn't matter where she came from or how classy she used to be.....all of that will eventually go out the window with the drugs! Drugs make sane people do HORRIFIC things! It is irresponsible and SCARY to leave a child in the car across the street at 10:30 on a school night!!! She surely could've been getting drugs? But who cares if she was just buying argarita mix in a pouch? Does any of that make sense? Addiction is crazy, it'll make her crzy, it'll make you crazier!! Trust me!! This is a nightmare and it only gets worse! and worse! and worse!
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by shaolin5 
I tell you this because Amy is who my wife has learned from, who she has all of her "connections" through. My worst fear is that "Amy" is who my wife will become in 10 years. Amy has been arrested MANY MANY times. She has been to NA. She has been to rehab. She has been to jail. NOTHING phases her. She is an addict through and through, a walking-talking poster child of addiction. Manipulative to the CORE. A living con.
So....I know what I want my wife to NOT BE.
So....I know what I want my wife to NOT BE.
You're getting a lot of good, honest advice and shared experiences here, and I hope I can be as helpful as others have been on this thread.
This person that you call "Amy" is your wife's true partner at this point. Your wife may sleep with you, live in your home, care for your child (in her own frozen margarita fiending way), and somehow fulfill your concept of a partner in marriage, but it is to Amy that she is giving her heart and soul and it is with Amy that she is building a future. Amy is BIG, my friend – much bigger than you are....
That your wife sold her engagement ring to buy substances is a perfect metaphor for what's really going on in your relationship. Amy is more than a flesh and blood person – she is also a spiritual conduit to a world where abuse is the norm and where anyone other than oneself (the addicted person) is viewed as an object and used as a tool. Amy is the embodiment of what your wife is currently searching for in her life, which I imagine does not jive with your vision for your life, nor for the life of your growing son.
Amy is also a fellow human who is enslaved by her addiction and is suffering terribly. I do not intend to demonize her – she is on her own path and may one day choose recovery, but until the time that she chooses transformation over her addiction, she will be a danger to herself and to others. The same goes for your wife: you've mentioned that since addiction is a progressive disease, and your wife has been dealing with hers for "only" 3 years (as far as you can believe her), then she can't be nearly as bad as someone who is 20 years down that road.... Well, the subtext that I get out of this way of thinking is that you are willing to place yourself and your son in incrementally greater amounts of danger as your wife spirals out of control. Do you have a pattern of similar risk-taking in your life? [I did.] What is dampening your mechanism for self-preservation? What is limiting your perspective so that when you learn that your 5-year-old son was left alone in a car while your wife went to buy drugs, you didn't simply take him away from her influence forever?
In my opinion, she's already gone – your wife is no longer married to you. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but from everything you've written here I don't see you with a committed partner: to me, it looks like you are with an active addict who is using you to attain her goal. It doesn't matter how many times she may tell you that she doesn't want to be like Amy – she is lying to you and probably to herself, as well. She is on a dark road, in a darker world, and unless you detach and protect yourself and your son (who is absolutely defenseless from the effects of her addiction at this time), both of you will suffer just as progressively as she inevitably will.
Your wife may find a way out – she may ultimately choose to transform – but you have no control over that. That's also harsh, but everyone with experience here will probably agree that you are powerless over her behavior and her future. There are people who have "problems" with the concept of powerlessness; they think that it is demeaning. I respect that way of thinking, but I find it to be somewhat pointless. In my entire lifetime, I can not say that there has been a single example of my ability to change someone else, no matter how much I tried. One can change ONLY oneself, and in that respect I am NOT powerless, but once I try to exert my "power" over another in order to change that person, I am crossing sacred boundaries. Spiritually, it is damaging to me, and pragmatically it's simply a waste of time.
And so, finally, you said "So....I know what I want my wife to NOT BE." This is a starting point for your own recovery, and you'll need to read many, many posts here on SR in order to begin to understand why. [And long-term participation in a support group such as Nar-Anon, Al-Anon or Families Anon will help tremendously.] Your wife is who she is – what you want her to be does not matter. She will do what she will do – that's that. You need to stop trying to make her the wife that you want and start working on yourself in order build a stable environment for you and your son.
Hugs all around – please keep at it, because you are worth it.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
I, too, was very naive and denial was a comfortable place to be....until reality turned my life upside down. I knew my husband took a couple of pain pills here and there. I also new he took them to "unwind" and take the edge off. I knew he exaggerated his aches and pains. In fact, I would even get him a couple from a friend when his back hurt.
He was a wonderful husband and father, a great provider, home every night, involved with kids activities, etc...."it was no big deal." Little did I know, it would progress to the nightmare it became. He became a lying, manipulating, selfish jerk who only cared about his drugs. I thought I could love him enough to get well. I thought he loved us enough to want to stop. I was in disbelief when I realized addiction had nothing to do with love for his family. The man I knew, the man I loved was lost in his addiction.
I had become very sick trying to control his addiction and trying to fix him. I started to become a great detective, a warden in my own home, my time and energy was spent obsessed about him and HIS addiction. I had very little peace and joy. I was too busy trying to reach the unreachable, fix the unfixable.
Even when I was spending time with my kids, my mind was still on him and what he was doing. I learned to put on a good act but I am not an Oscar winner by any means.
It wasn't until I started therapy, went to alanon, joined here - that I started on my own path of recovery. My recovery was hard at first, I wasn't used to focusing on me. It wasn't until I let go of him, gave him to God that I could start focusing on me.
Addicts lie and lie some more! They will do ANYTHING to protect and sustain their addiction. Addiction is that powerful. You sound like me when I first came out of denial. There is just so much, almost too much to wrap your mind around. Its almost impossible to comprehend it all in the beginning. Keep reading, keep posting but please listen carefully from those who have walked this journey before you.......PROTECT you SON. Please do not leave him alone with her any more. You have to be his protector. Addiction is as evil as anything can imagine and worse.
Lastly, take a good look at your relationships, your son's mother and your current wife. Find the pattern - and then take a good look at the role you play in all of this. You can only be the white knight for you and your precious son.
He was a wonderful husband and father, a great provider, home every night, involved with kids activities, etc...."it was no big deal." Little did I know, it would progress to the nightmare it became. He became a lying, manipulating, selfish jerk who only cared about his drugs. I thought I could love him enough to get well. I thought he loved us enough to want to stop. I was in disbelief when I realized addiction had nothing to do with love for his family. The man I knew, the man I loved was lost in his addiction.
I had become very sick trying to control his addiction and trying to fix him. I started to become a great detective, a warden in my own home, my time and energy was spent obsessed about him and HIS addiction. I had very little peace and joy. I was too busy trying to reach the unreachable, fix the unfixable.
Even when I was spending time with my kids, my mind was still on him and what he was doing. I learned to put on a good act but I am not an Oscar winner by any means.
It wasn't until I started therapy, went to alanon, joined here - that I started on my own path of recovery. My recovery was hard at first, I wasn't used to focusing on me. It wasn't until I let go of him, gave him to God that I could start focusing on me.
Addicts lie and lie some more! They will do ANYTHING to protect and sustain their addiction. Addiction is that powerful. You sound like me when I first came out of denial. There is just so much, almost too much to wrap your mind around. Its almost impossible to comprehend it all in the beginning. Keep reading, keep posting but please listen carefully from those who have walked this journey before you.......PROTECT you SON. Please do not leave him alone with her any more. You have to be his protector. Addiction is as evil as anything can imagine and worse.
Lastly, take a good look at your relationships, your son's mother and your current wife. Find the pattern - and then take a good look at the role you play in all of this. You can only be the white knight for you and your precious son.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
This poem was my wake up call. It brought me out of denial and into reality. I read it in complete shock. I couldn't breathe. I sat for over 2 hours in a state of horror, sadness, fear, and shock. My husband says it 100% accurate - as will any addict. This is your wife!! This is many of our loved ones!!
I AM YOUR DISEASE
You know who I am, you’ve called me your friend
Wishes of misery and heartache I send
I want only to see that you’re brought to your knees
I’m the devil inside you, I am your disease.
I’ll invade all your thoughts, I’ll take hostage your soul
I’ll become your new master, in total control
I’ll maim your emotions, I’ll run the whole game
Till your entire existence is crippled with shame
When you call me I come, sometimes in disguise
Quite often I’ll take you by total surprise
But take you I will, and just as you’ve feared
I’ll want only to hurt you, with no mercy spared
If you have your own family, Ill see its destroyed
I’ll steal every pleasure in life you’ve enjoyed
I’ll not only hurt you, I’ll kill if I please
I’m your worst living nightmare, I am your disease
I bring self destruction, but still you can’t tell
I’ll sweep you through heaven, then drop you in hell
I’ll chase you forever, wherever you go
And then when I catch you, you won’t even know
I’ll sometimes lay silent, just waiting to strike
What’s yours becomes mine, cuz I take what I like
I’ll take all you own and I won’t care who sees
I’m your constant companion… I am your disease
If you have any honor, I’ll strip it away
You’ll lose all your hope and forget how to pray
I’ll leave you in darkness, while blindly you stare
I’ll reduce you to nothing, and won’t even care
So, don’t take for granted my powers sublime
I’ll bend and I’ll break you, time after time
I’ll crumble your world with the greatest of ease
I’m that madman inside you…I am your disease
But today I’m real angry…you want to know why?
I let all in recovery, entirely slip by
How did I lose you? Where did I go wrong?
One minute I had you…then next you were gone
You just can’t dismiss all the good times we’ve shared
When you were alone…wasn’t it I who appeared?
When you sold those possessions you knew you would need
Wasn’t I the first one who stepped in and agreed
Now look at you bastards, you’re all thinking clear
You escaped with your lives when you found your way here
Only fools think they’re winners when admitting defeat
It’s what you must say when you’re claiming that seat
Go ahead and surrender, if that’s what you choose
But, I’m not giving up. cuz I can’t stand to lose
So stand in your groups and support hand in hand
Better choices will save you…leaving me to be damned
Well, be damned all you people seeking treatment each week
Be damned inner strength, however unique
Be damned all your sayings, be damned your cliches
Be damned every addict, who back to me strays
For I know it will happen, I’ve seen it before
Those who love misery will crawl back for more
So take comfort in knowing, I’m waiting right here
But next time around, you’d just better beware
You think that you’re stronger or smarter this time’
There isn’t a mountain or hill you can’t climb
Well if that’s what you’re thinkin, you ain’t learned a thing
I’ll still knock you silly if you step back in my ring
But you say you’ve surrendered, so what can I do?
It’s so sad in a way, I had big plans for you
Creating your nightmare for me was a dream
I’m sure gonna miss you…we made quite a team
So please don’t forget me, I won’t forget you
I’ll stand by your side watching all that you do
I’m ready and waiting, so call if you please
I won’t let you forget me…I am your disease
You see, even 3 years, 10 yrs, 20 yrs into working a strong recovery program, an addict is one bad thought away - back to their addiction. I hear the stories all the time from NA members.
I AM YOUR DISEASE
You know who I am, you’ve called me your friend
Wishes of misery and heartache I send
I want only to see that you’re brought to your knees
I’m the devil inside you, I am your disease.
I’ll invade all your thoughts, I’ll take hostage your soul
I’ll become your new master, in total control
I’ll maim your emotions, I’ll run the whole game
Till your entire existence is crippled with shame
When you call me I come, sometimes in disguise
Quite often I’ll take you by total surprise
But take you I will, and just as you’ve feared
I’ll want only to hurt you, with no mercy spared
If you have your own family, Ill see its destroyed
I’ll steal every pleasure in life you’ve enjoyed
I’ll not only hurt you, I’ll kill if I please
I’m your worst living nightmare, I am your disease
I bring self destruction, but still you can’t tell
I’ll sweep you through heaven, then drop you in hell
I’ll chase you forever, wherever you go
And then when I catch you, you won’t even know
I’ll sometimes lay silent, just waiting to strike
What’s yours becomes mine, cuz I take what I like
I’ll take all you own and I won’t care who sees
I’m your constant companion… I am your disease
If you have any honor, I’ll strip it away
You’ll lose all your hope and forget how to pray
I’ll leave you in darkness, while blindly you stare
I’ll reduce you to nothing, and won’t even care
So, don’t take for granted my powers sublime
I’ll bend and I’ll break you, time after time
I’ll crumble your world with the greatest of ease
I’m that madman inside you…I am your disease
But today I’m real angry…you want to know why?
I let all in recovery, entirely slip by
How did I lose you? Where did I go wrong?
One minute I had you…then next you were gone
You just can’t dismiss all the good times we’ve shared
When you were alone…wasn’t it I who appeared?
When you sold those possessions you knew you would need
Wasn’t I the first one who stepped in and agreed
Now look at you bastards, you’re all thinking clear
You escaped with your lives when you found your way here
Only fools think they’re winners when admitting defeat
It’s what you must say when you’re claiming that seat
Go ahead and surrender, if that’s what you choose
But, I’m not giving up. cuz I can’t stand to lose
So stand in your groups and support hand in hand
Better choices will save you…leaving me to be damned
Well, be damned all you people seeking treatment each week
Be damned inner strength, however unique
Be damned all your sayings, be damned your cliches
Be damned every addict, who back to me strays
For I know it will happen, I’ve seen it before
Those who love misery will crawl back for more
So take comfort in knowing, I’m waiting right here
But next time around, you’d just better beware
You think that you’re stronger or smarter this time’
There isn’t a mountain or hill you can’t climb
Well if that’s what you’re thinkin, you ain’t learned a thing
I’ll still knock you silly if you step back in my ring
But you say you’ve surrendered, so what can I do?
It’s so sad in a way, I had big plans for you
Creating your nightmare for me was a dream
I’m sure gonna miss you…we made quite a team
So please don’t forget me, I won’t forget you
I’ll stand by your side watching all that you do
I’m ready and waiting, so call if you please
I won’t let you forget me…I am your disease
You see, even 3 years, 10 yrs, 20 yrs into working a strong recovery program, an addict is one bad thought away - back to their addiction. I hear the stories all the time from NA members.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Cynical One's blog has a lot of great information. There is an article about the relationship between sex and crack addiction for you read.
Based on what I have read here by recovery crack addicts, been told by other recovering crack addicts and what a few people I know who were once married or involved with a crack addict, I doubt very much, in fact I would guarantee "Amy" isn't just getting money from strangers because she is so sweet or a great con or whatever. She is doing ANYTHING to feed her addiction, including sex! Just like we would do anything for air. Sadly, addiction is just that powerful!! Addicts lie, then lie some more. Your wife is not going to tell you the truth about her friend or herself! No Way!! She may tell you a little bit of the truth but you can multiply that by at least 10.
Based on what I have read here by recovery crack addicts, been told by other recovering crack addicts and what a few people I know who were once married or involved with a crack addict, I doubt very much, in fact I would guarantee "Amy" isn't just getting money from strangers because she is so sweet or a great con or whatever. She is doing ANYTHING to feed her addiction, including sex! Just like we would do anything for air. Sadly, addiction is just that powerful!! Addicts lie, then lie some more. Your wife is not going to tell you the truth about her friend or herself! No Way!! She may tell you a little bit of the truth but you can multiply that by at least 10.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
Wow. WOW! That poem is a REAL jaw-dropper! I'm SO GLAD you shared that. I showed it to my wife and she said "my problem is under control, for today. I'm taking it one day at a time".
But I have my doubts. All I can do is read, ask questions and observe.
But I have my doubts. All I can do is read, ask questions and observe.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
You're right about the lies. When "IT" is happening, she is a forked tongue liar. Its like she has a split personality. She is kind and living and CLASSY MOST of the time. But when she succumbs to the urges, she disappears. But she always calls by morning. I'm a damn sucker, right?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
"my problem is under control, for today. I'm taking it one day at a time"
I'm a damn sucker, right?
She is kind and living and CLASSY MOST of the time.
We all have choices in this world. Except children. They are the true victims. Good luck to him and you as you try to find your way out of this mess... when you are ready to do so. I hope your bottom comes soon for his sake. Keep reading and posting!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by shaolin5
So yeah, I am behind her 100%, but I have drawn lines in the sand. As much as I love her, she better not cross them.
Do you have boundaries in place that you are actually willing to enforce?
It's not easy, but it starts with making them.
Will you try the ol' "rehab or divorce" ultimatum again?
Will you ignore it in hopes that it will be better next time while it tears away at your mental health and self-respect? That's what a "sucker" would do.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
The "Just for today" reference is straight out of the NA book. I understand your cynicism, but I'm just trying to give her an opportunity to help herself. She says she wants to get and stay clean. I'm going to give her a chance to prove it. If she fails, she has to go to rehab. There have been too many chances. No more
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 124
When I first started asking questions about my partner's addiction and quite quickly received a lot of comments about my own attitudes, I reacted with stubborn, self-righteous denial. I was so ignorant of what I was really dealing with, not only in terms of what addiction could be but in MY warped behavior, as well, that I simply laughed at the idea that I could be a part of the problem.
Most of all, I was terrified of pulling the "love" out of our relationship. If what was going on between us wasn't love, then what was it? Just more sickness?
I learned, with time, that love could still exist within the context of addiction and that it wasn't always a dance between each partner's addictive behavior – that it *could* be genuine and heartfelt.... but that was really only possible when each party was in active recovery.
In my previous post I said that it looks to me like your wife is now partnered with Amy. I want to clarify that I wasn't talking about the sexual aspects of the relationship. I WAS talking about the emotional and spiritual aspects, and that "Amy" is not a single entity – she is the world of "consuming" – everything that revolves around obtaining and ingesting substances as a means to supply instant gratification and suppress the dark, hidden truths that compel an addict to consume.
Going to NA or AA meetings (or other forms of recovery for addicts) does not mean that the addicted person is in recovery. Also, NOT going to such meetings doesn't mean that a person is NOT in recovery. Addiction is addiction and recovery is recovery – there are patterns of behavior for each case, so many folks here will quickly point them out to you, as a means to help you see what is going on.
Now, you made no comment about my previous post. No big deal for me and I'm not looking for strokes from anyone. But there have been other posts that made pointed reference to your son and the effect that your wife's addiction must surely already have on him. People here are starting to beg you to think about your son above all things, but your responses only deal with your wife and your insecurities.
Why are we showing such concern for your son? He's not writing here, he's not dealing with the doubts and confusion that you are... but you are a willing accomplice to everything that has already happened. You are an adult and you are responsible for your actions – your son is not. You are responsible for him right now and you need to act on the fact that your wife is NOT acting responsibly. No responsible parent or guardian EVER leaves a child alone in a car – not in the USA, not in Argentina (where I am), not in Brazil, China, the Netherlands, Guam, the Canary Islands – NOWHERE. And to leave a child in a car in order to buy a frozen margarita mix?
?????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????
Wake up, man, and start thinking about something else than your wife's addiction.
Many of us here on SR are adult children of addicts and we've been scarred deeply by that. Some of us got off fairly "easy" and simply have to deal with the emotional/psychological repercussions for the rest of our lives. For others, the scarring may go deeper and affect every pattern of behavior, leading to self-destructive attitudes and profound dysfunction. When you see us saying "Take care of your son" it is not friendly advice, it's an admonishment.
Most of all, I was terrified of pulling the "love" out of our relationship. If what was going on between us wasn't love, then what was it? Just more sickness?
I learned, with time, that love could still exist within the context of addiction and that it wasn't always a dance between each partner's addictive behavior – that it *could* be genuine and heartfelt.... but that was really only possible when each party was in active recovery.
In my previous post I said that it looks to me like your wife is now partnered with Amy. I want to clarify that I wasn't talking about the sexual aspects of the relationship. I WAS talking about the emotional and spiritual aspects, and that "Amy" is not a single entity – she is the world of "consuming" – everything that revolves around obtaining and ingesting substances as a means to supply instant gratification and suppress the dark, hidden truths that compel an addict to consume.
Going to NA or AA meetings (or other forms of recovery for addicts) does not mean that the addicted person is in recovery. Also, NOT going to such meetings doesn't mean that a person is NOT in recovery. Addiction is addiction and recovery is recovery – there are patterns of behavior for each case, so many folks here will quickly point them out to you, as a means to help you see what is going on.
Now, you made no comment about my previous post. No big deal for me and I'm not looking for strokes from anyone. But there have been other posts that made pointed reference to your son and the effect that your wife's addiction must surely already have on him. People here are starting to beg you to think about your son above all things, but your responses only deal with your wife and your insecurities.
Why are we showing such concern for your son? He's not writing here, he's not dealing with the doubts and confusion that you are... but you are a willing accomplice to everything that has already happened. You are an adult and you are responsible for your actions – your son is not. You are responsible for him right now and you need to act on the fact that your wife is NOT acting responsibly. No responsible parent or guardian EVER leaves a child alone in a car – not in the USA, not in Argentina (where I am), not in Brazil, China, the Netherlands, Guam, the Canary Islands – NOWHERE. And to leave a child in a car in order to buy a frozen margarita mix?
?????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????
Wake up, man, and start thinking about something else than your wife's addiction.
Many of us here on SR are adult children of addicts and we've been scarred deeply by that. Some of us got off fairly "easy" and simply have to deal with the emotional/psychological repercussions for the rest of our lives. For others, the scarring may go deeper and affect every pattern of behavior, leading to self-destructive attitudes and profound dysfunction. When you see us saying "Take care of your son" it is not friendly advice, it's an admonishment.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by shaolin5
She says she wants to get and stay clean. I'm going to give her a chance to prove it. If she fails, she has to go to rehab. There have been too many chances. No more
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
The "Just for today" reference is straight out of the NA book.
It'd be great to hear that your wife never wants to touch crack again (If I had a nickel for everytime I heard that or said that...). If she does, well, sadly rehab doesn't cure anyone. I've noticed that it's extremely ineffective, especially when it comes to crack addiction. Even moreso when the addict is only going because they are compelled to go by loved ones who are threatening "no more". Unfortunately what you perceive as cynicism is more like a dose of hardcore truth that people have a difficult time accepting. I absolutely wish you, your child and your wife the best. May today be the first day of the rest of her drug free life!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
From reading your post it sounds as if your wife is involved in treatment; she has started attending what Im assuming are 12-step meetings to help her stop using drugs and alcohol? Her behavior has improved, and you are saying she is expressing a desire to change, but still makes bad decisions at times? What can you expect?
Can only tell you from my experience. When my husband was using he was highly functional and was able to work, but he was always wanting to go out with his friends from work, the ones he did drugs with and stay out late. He always came home but it would be 2-3 in the morning. He was never abusive to me or anything, but obviously we did argue about that type of behavior within a marriage. When he decided he wanted to stop using and change his crazy ways, so that he could get his life back, then he went through detox and rehab. Really this happened because he got very sick trying to detox on his own, and we (family) stepped in to get him professional help.
You asked about does it make a difference in a how long a person has been using? I would also tie this into what drugs they are using, and what their past history is. I have to say that I think it does make a huge difference in both addiction, and in what is called codependency. Neither myself or my husband had any prior background in drugs, alcohol abuse, any kind of emotional problems, family history,past relationships with addicts. He got hooked after the doctor started him on opiate pain meds. My husband set his mind to wanting it to be over, and so far he has made that come true. He is now 9 month clean, home with me and our son. Our plan is not to live in addiction, and that drug use will not be part of our lives again. ( This perhaps is what you have seen with you sister in law. People do overcome drug and alcohol abuse and addiction, so you are not wrong in believing this is possible.)
For ongoing support my husband works with a psychiatrist who specializes and will continue to see him every couple of weeks for a while. He had to make changes in his life. He had to stop socializing with the people he used to do drugs with. He asked for a transfer within his company to a different location where he wouldn’t even be around them at work, etc. He was fortunate that prior to his year of using, he led a healthy life, so for the most part he just had to transition back to that. Some people have never had healthy lives and they have to build a life from scratch at whatever age, whatever baggage they carry. Personally I do think it is harder for these people.
It is the same with codependency. Some people are children of alcoholics or addicts, some have known dysfunctional relationships their whole lives and have been in one bad relationship after another often involving drugs or abuse. They fall down a slippery slope for a very long time, and have either never truly formed an identity for themselves, or they have lost it amid the chaos. Learning about codependency can be overwhelming. You look at a checklist and think Yes I am those things. But be careful to understand that the real problem with codependency is the extremes to which things are taken. It is normal to worry about your wife if she doesn’t come home, but it is not normal to endanger your health by breaking into crack houses trying to find her in the middle of the night. Its also easy for little things like avoiding friends, skipping social activities to become the norm; and then you are living in seclusion because you’re afraid to leave the wife alone, or are ashamed to admit to people what is going on at home. So look at the codependency traits but don’t let it send you into a panic. I think most of us have codependency tendencies especially when we have a loved one who is ill, so it is good to examine your behavior and get your footing; that is all that many of us have to do.
If your wife really wants to stop using, then there will be a progression towards improved behavior, logical thought processes, modifications in her behavior, and she should want to eliminate people like Amy from her life. At first during recovery, it is bumpy and there is confusion on both sides. You will have to watch her behavior , some things will confuse you and that is ok, look at the bigger picture over time, and not the tiniest of actions everyday because that is the crazy making behavior. She will make mistakes, hopefully small ones and will learn form them, she may even relapse but hopefully if it happens she will learn from this also. It is a process and it takes time, and all you can really do is wait and see if she “gets it” “sticks with it” etc. She is correct I think, especially if she is following AA process, because they say “one day at a time” and I think something like “progress if not perfection”. Husband doesn’t follow that method, so apologies if I misquoted the slogan.
While she is doing all this, continue to live your life to the best and healthiest extent possible. Make sure that your son is safe, and if you have any doubts that she is drinking or using again then look for someone to help with his care while you are working. If she continues with treatment, then you should continue to see improvements if it is working. It takes time to rebuild trust, and to feel confident they are really moving in the right direction and not just going through the motions.
Im really glad to hear that you are doing marriage counseling. My husband and I started it when he was in rehab, it was really intensive then, but we still do it once a month. Both people have to be willing to make the effort, and it takes real honesty. We think it has made the most significant impact for us. It helped us heal our relationship, and it brought out issues for both of us that we could then work on individually. Husband says he thinks is sped up his healing process over regret, shame because most of what his worst feelings were wrapped up in failures related to me/our son.
As far as the cheating goes, you may never know. Certain drugs especially crack have a tendency to increase the odds because of the actual physical effects they have on the body. Other drugs, not so much. I would get checked out by your doctor for your own safety and peace of mind.
When my husband was going through all this, my biggest motivation for taking care of my own health was my son. He is really little; only a few months when this all started, but I still did not want him to get a sense of instability from me in any way, shape or form. He deserved & will always deserve to have a happy mommy. Your child deserves to have a healthy, happy daddy regardless of what happens with mom.
Can only tell you from my experience. When my husband was using he was highly functional and was able to work, but he was always wanting to go out with his friends from work, the ones he did drugs with and stay out late. He always came home but it would be 2-3 in the morning. He was never abusive to me or anything, but obviously we did argue about that type of behavior within a marriage. When he decided he wanted to stop using and change his crazy ways, so that he could get his life back, then he went through detox and rehab. Really this happened because he got very sick trying to detox on his own, and we (family) stepped in to get him professional help.
You asked about does it make a difference in a how long a person has been using? I would also tie this into what drugs they are using, and what their past history is. I have to say that I think it does make a huge difference in both addiction, and in what is called codependency. Neither myself or my husband had any prior background in drugs, alcohol abuse, any kind of emotional problems, family history,past relationships with addicts. He got hooked after the doctor started him on opiate pain meds. My husband set his mind to wanting it to be over, and so far he has made that come true. He is now 9 month clean, home with me and our son. Our plan is not to live in addiction, and that drug use will not be part of our lives again. ( This perhaps is what you have seen with you sister in law. People do overcome drug and alcohol abuse and addiction, so you are not wrong in believing this is possible.)
For ongoing support my husband works with a psychiatrist who specializes and will continue to see him every couple of weeks for a while. He had to make changes in his life. He had to stop socializing with the people he used to do drugs with. He asked for a transfer within his company to a different location where he wouldn’t even be around them at work, etc. He was fortunate that prior to his year of using, he led a healthy life, so for the most part he just had to transition back to that. Some people have never had healthy lives and they have to build a life from scratch at whatever age, whatever baggage they carry. Personally I do think it is harder for these people.
It is the same with codependency. Some people are children of alcoholics or addicts, some have known dysfunctional relationships their whole lives and have been in one bad relationship after another often involving drugs or abuse. They fall down a slippery slope for a very long time, and have either never truly formed an identity for themselves, or they have lost it amid the chaos. Learning about codependency can be overwhelming. You look at a checklist and think Yes I am those things. But be careful to understand that the real problem with codependency is the extremes to which things are taken. It is normal to worry about your wife if she doesn’t come home, but it is not normal to endanger your health by breaking into crack houses trying to find her in the middle of the night. Its also easy for little things like avoiding friends, skipping social activities to become the norm; and then you are living in seclusion because you’re afraid to leave the wife alone, or are ashamed to admit to people what is going on at home. So look at the codependency traits but don’t let it send you into a panic. I think most of us have codependency tendencies especially when we have a loved one who is ill, so it is good to examine your behavior and get your footing; that is all that many of us have to do.
If your wife really wants to stop using, then there will be a progression towards improved behavior, logical thought processes, modifications in her behavior, and she should want to eliminate people like Amy from her life. At first during recovery, it is bumpy and there is confusion on both sides. You will have to watch her behavior , some things will confuse you and that is ok, look at the bigger picture over time, and not the tiniest of actions everyday because that is the crazy making behavior. She will make mistakes, hopefully small ones and will learn form them, she may even relapse but hopefully if it happens she will learn from this also. It is a process and it takes time, and all you can really do is wait and see if she “gets it” “sticks with it” etc. She is correct I think, especially if she is following AA process, because they say “one day at a time” and I think something like “progress if not perfection”. Husband doesn’t follow that method, so apologies if I misquoted the slogan.
While she is doing all this, continue to live your life to the best and healthiest extent possible. Make sure that your son is safe, and if you have any doubts that she is drinking or using again then look for someone to help with his care while you are working. If she continues with treatment, then you should continue to see improvements if it is working. It takes time to rebuild trust, and to feel confident they are really moving in the right direction and not just going through the motions.
Im really glad to hear that you are doing marriage counseling. My husband and I started it when he was in rehab, it was really intensive then, but we still do it once a month. Both people have to be willing to make the effort, and it takes real honesty. We think it has made the most significant impact for us. It helped us heal our relationship, and it brought out issues for both of us that we could then work on individually. Husband says he thinks is sped up his healing process over regret, shame because most of what his worst feelings were wrapped up in failures related to me/our son.
As far as the cheating goes, you may never know. Certain drugs especially crack have a tendency to increase the odds because of the actual physical effects they have on the body. Other drugs, not so much. I would get checked out by your doctor for your own safety and peace of mind.
When my husband was going through all this, my biggest motivation for taking care of my own health was my son. He is really little; only a few months when this all started, but I still did not want him to get a sense of instability from me in any way, shape or form. He deserved & will always deserve to have a happy mommy. Your child deserves to have a healthy, happy daddy regardless of what happens with mom.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by shaolin5
The "Just for today" reference is straight out of the NA book. I understand your cynicism, but I'm just trying to give her an opportunity to help herself. She says she wants to get and stay clean. I'm going to give her a chance to prove it. If she fails, she has to go to rehab. There have been too many chances. No more
I pray her "one more chance" isn't at the expense of your son. Sounds like he has already been through a lot in his short little life.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
You can buy into the "hopeful fantasy" - most of us have at some point in time. Many of us believed our addicts were special, their addiction wasn't as bad as others, and our relationships were unique. Some people even try to perpetuate this belief and we, in desperation, will grab onto it with all we have. Some people will protest that they are not codependent, yet have little understanding what it truly is and almost every post reeks of codependency.
I know this is painful but please believe the posters who are sharing their personal ESH (experience, strength and hope). Crack is an evil drug, all addiction is evil. You, alone, are just no match for it. Please keep reading and posting.
I know this is painful but please believe the posters who are sharing their personal ESH (experience, strength and hope). Crack is an evil drug, all addiction is evil. You, alone, are just no match for it. Please keep reading and posting.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Beckley wv
Posts: 26
MiSoberbio....every word of every post has helped me GREATLY, including yours.
My son is the center of my life. He is without a doubt my #1 priority. Maybe I have not spent enough time talking about HIM.
The main reason I have not spoken about him is because this is an addiction and recovery forum and I was talking about the addict and myself. Now, when it comes to my son, he is VERY fortunate to have SO many people that love him. My mother has ran one of the largest daycare centers in the state, and my Sister is a third grade teacher, so I have the best babysitters that TRUELY LOVE my son. He IS the priority in my life, above ALL others. His relationship with my wife is very important to me, and I AM the final say and authority in his life.
Now, with that being said, what am I guilty of? I am guilty of ignorance (first and foremost because I was deceived ), and I am guilty of exposing his life to an addict. Do you not think that I have weighed HIS loss if I were to end my marriage against his safety and well-being of living in the same house with an addict? Of COURSE I have. Just because I have not discussed it online doesn't mean it has not happened. Right now there are VERY FEW moments when she is in a position to be responsible for him. Yes, my son loves her. And she loves him. She is nothing short of a FANTASTIC mother to him 99% of the time.
.....but there IS that 1%, an that's one reason I am here. I don't know. I understand everyone's concern about him. Believe me I do. These are thoughts that CONSTANTLY haunt my mind. Right now her "unsupervised" exposure to him is down to the bare minimum, and it's because of previously stated behavior that it is that way
My son is the center of my life. He is without a doubt my #1 priority. Maybe I have not spent enough time talking about HIM.
The main reason I have not spoken about him is because this is an addiction and recovery forum and I was talking about the addict and myself. Now, when it comes to my son, he is VERY fortunate to have SO many people that love him. My mother has ran one of the largest daycare centers in the state, and my Sister is a third grade teacher, so I have the best babysitters that TRUELY LOVE my son. He IS the priority in my life, above ALL others. His relationship with my wife is very important to me, and I AM the final say and authority in his life.
Now, with that being said, what am I guilty of? I am guilty of ignorance (first and foremost because I was deceived ), and I am guilty of exposing his life to an addict. Do you not think that I have weighed HIS loss if I were to end my marriage against his safety and well-being of living in the same house with an addict? Of COURSE I have. Just because I have not discussed it online doesn't mean it has not happened. Right now there are VERY FEW moments when she is in a position to be responsible for him. Yes, my son loves her. And she loves him. She is nothing short of a FANTASTIC mother to him 99% of the time.
.....but there IS that 1%, an that's one reason I am here. I don't know. I understand everyone's concern about him. Believe me I do. These are thoughts that CONSTANTLY haunt my mind. Right now her "unsupervised" exposure to him is down to the bare minimum, and it's because of previously stated behavior that it is that way
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