RedBaron5

[QUOTE=milo88;3706527]Sometimes you do, or I have anyway, but it's the other memories that remind you that they're not or they weren't anyway. I'm not sure about the willing victim bit either - you're only willing once you've got all the information. Before you know everything you're just a person that trusted another person and got burnt. And there has to be some anger about that. It wouldn't be natural to not have anger about that.

I agree with this 100%, we are raised as good people and I gave someone the benefit of the doubt, I'm just tired of buying into all this "their sick, its a disease bs. Some people are just scummy, add drugs ontop of that...

cece1960

I am currently struggling to quit smoking. I have not had a cig in almost four weeks. I am addicted to nicotine and always will be. At this point in time I am not very thrilled about all of this and I am always thinking "just a few puffs"

This is my umpteenth time of quitting, so I guess you could say I was always in chronic replace or active addiction.

I don't deserve to be bulldozed into a ditch, even if I had decided to keep smoking

I know it SEEMS different, but it's really not. An addict is an addict.

RI24

I never understood how my father could put drinking ahead of us until i looked at my baby son and chose to spend the money for his nappies on a bag of heroin, and while you sound like you have been on the receiving end of someone in active addiction you always had the choice to walk away!
yes I made a decision at 13 years of age to use drugs but the shame I was trying to escape from wasn't my choice or self inflicted.
I have lived with that decision for over 20 years.. Basically what I'm saying is however badly you may think of the addict in your life you can be damn sure they think a hell of a lot worse of themselves

Katiekate

[QUOTE=RedBaron5;3706536] It's okay to give someone the benefit of the doubt, it's okay to be tired, you are powerless, as is the addcit, redbaron, my hope is that you can develope a deep compassion and kindness for yourself. I know underneath all of my anger was a lifetime of hurt, moving through that was agony, physically painful grief, I loved my a deeply, but I hated myself for allowing him to have me believe I was unlovable, we care about you, please keep posting. Katie

Vale

Understandable emotions.But the easy response (lets just execute them all)
shares a great deal in common with the addicts approach to life (more dope
will make everything better)....both are expedient,satisfying(in a knee-jerk
sort of fashion)......and WRONG.

I call it the "nuke 'em all" frame of mind.A common frame of reference to those
whose life experiences and responsibilities have been....to put it delicately....'truncated'.

I would relate a story of an associate long ago whose worldview included such
harsh "North Korean" style thinking (sidewalk executions for drug possession).Then
something happened.His son got popped in SE Asia and actually WAS facing the ultimate
sanction.This 'tough' guy bled his estate dry hiring every derelict barrister he could in
the backward society that had custody of his son.His son spent quite a long time
imprisoned.

My point is life is not as easy as ABC. Every clown imagines himself a hero in battle,
until he or she actually finds themselves in a front line component---then (and only
then) do you find out if they are going to hold the line or drop their weapon and run.

Addicts are,first and foremost,human beings.Human beings who can be devious,cunning,and often
horrid scumbags.But they are also sons,daughters,wives,and
husbands.

Those who would imagine that the rest of us would look away and merely 'fret'
as these 'worthless addicts' are 'put to sleep' or 'bulldozed' .......would have what I
used to refer to in my former (martial) life as a ......

"very nasty surprise"

Sunshine2

Aaaahhh... the question of superiority. I do not believe there is one person superior to another. Not a single one.

I didn't use to be this way. As a matter of fact, I remember years ago I worked with a woman whose son was an addict, when my eldest son was only about 10. I remember having the distinct thought that I would NEVER have the same problem with my children, as I was a MUCH better mother than her.

Fast forward 4 years and what do you know! My superior motherly skills did not save my son from becoming an addict. It was one of those things that made me rethink my judgment of superiority over others and just brought me back to earth with a thud.

Kindeyes

Once upon a time, I had a piece of s**t list. It didn't take a whole lot to get on it. Who knows.....you could have easily made your way on my list for something you said or did. It was a pretty easy list to get on. Quite honestly, I didn't like most people very much. Heck, I don't think I liked myself very much.

It was a defensive reaction. It was how I handled pain or the judgement I felt from other people. Ignore their existence. How can they hurt me if they no longer exist in "my world". Loving or hating is an indication that I cared. Complete indifference.....now THAT had meaning. lol

That was a long time ago......I could have stayed stuck in that thinking but I didn't.

Anger has a purpose.....it's necessary to move us beyond things. Anger can be a great motivator. But at some point in time, anger turns inward and begins to damage it's host. Be angry for now if it helps you move beyond your pain......but letting that anger extend outward in a defensive reaction to include an entire group of people is the stuff that makes for a whole different category of not so nice humans.

I can't imagine anyone who hasn't made bad decisions in their life.....I've made some doozies......they just didn't lead me down the path of addiction. The most freeing thing I have ever done is let go of my resentments......burning that "piece of s**t list". I hope your journey takes you to that point someday......it feels really really really good!

gentle hugs
ke

incitingsilence

This may help you understand some of the dynamics of addiction. It is a bit older but it is worth the read.

Close to Home - Science: Interview with Alan Leshner

And yes it does involve a choice but being addicted to drugs is way more complicated than just taking a drug. And for some what was it about them that made them make that first choice to begin with and at shockingly young ages? There are social factors, genetic factors and health factors. Also more in recent times there is this entitlement that is associate with addiction, that just didn’t appear, that is something that is taught….No one uses thinking hey you know what would be cool, to become an addict.

We will all view this within the limits of the box we put ourselves in, or the one we refuse to be locked into by our own hand or the hand of another.

In terms of a choice. Alcohol was something that I was exposed to extremely young, toddler age. My grandmother always allowed me to taste and I doubt I would have went back for more if I didn‘t like it, my parents allowed alcohol from a certain age on at big family dinners …surely I wouldn’t be volunteering to do the dishes on those evenings hoping for glasses not totally empty if there wasn’t something in me that didn’t like the taste and then the feeling it gave.

I do agree with each of the choices made, made me who I am. I also know without a doubt how that is a good thing, not a bad one no matter how I choose to live during my life and no matter how others view the choices I made. I have never ever wished to go back and redo anything.

You wrote you understand you have no control. I would beg to differ, the anger would have subsided if you understood what that really means and the addict in your life wouldn’t be getting the amount of power you are giving away. What purpose does the anger serve in you … what meaning does it give to your life … do you thrive in it and the associated chaos that comes along with it … is your anger directed at the right person …good questions to ask yourself, in time. Whether you understand the whys now you will either be forced to by your own reflection in the mirror or choose not to …which will negatively effect your whole life and remove an chances of ever finding what true peace means.

Saying you are working on you and actually doing the work are two different things. Until you peel back your own layers, and stop trying to understand why he is as he is and look at why you are as you are … you are just using him as a distraction … to feed the pain, you could opt out of …

The insanity we go through, everything about our personal experience in this madness no matter the side is such a perfect design, especially since we are the only designer.

We all could opt out at anytime. There are reason, our own, why we choose not to…

Vale

Nora Volkov,MD,head of NIDA......puts it best when she said
"it's all about the dopamine".

The decision to 'try' heavy opiates is a dumb one.
But noone 'decides' to stay addicted---any more than one can
'decide' to not breath any more.

JimmyDesperate

Superior is a ugly term. It´s too totalitarian for me.

I know I was sick and that the certain person made me sick makes me angry at her and at me. Good codie that I am I started blaming myself and wondering if I am mentally sane. If I was the problem. For a short moment today I felt so traumatized I started to shake. That´s a very bad feeling.

My choice is to heal and getting myself to a better place. I don´t care about bringing on suffering upon the person who made me suffer. I care about myself now. Every thought about her is a thought too much. I don´t think hate and anger would help me to heal myself from the worst psychological crisis in my life.

@ Kindeyes, thank you so much for your nuanced post(s). I admire your approach and it serves me as a guiding line.

Windancer

I think their is some great advice and insight here for you now, RedBaron.
I hope you can get past the hurt and anger and be at peace. Living in resentement can be a slippery slope too.....
I find that the poeple who judge not, and dont believe in "superiority" live more much more happy and peaceful lives.

jerect

I dont think my STBXAH is a piece of ***** I think he is an addict and that he is sick and that the choices he has made has destroyed our marriage and the trust of his family but he is not a piece of crap..

I held a lot of anger and resentment towards him for a very long time.. it literally ate me up inside but did nothing to make my addict better or worse, he stayed the same.. just messed up in his world of addiction..

I have forgiven my AH for all the things that he chose to do to destroy our marraige and I have forgiven myself for allowing myself to become an enabler in his addiction and for reacting out of fear instead of love...

my marriage will be over in two weeks.. I hold no anger towards him.. some aggrevation yes because he still lives in my home but no anger no resentment and no hate.. I release him with light love and peace and hope that he finds his recovery this time..

zoso77

I don't believe anyone on this thread, or on other threads you may read, will excuse the behavior of an addict simply because they're on drugs. In fact, just the opposite.

Right now, from the tone of your posts, I believe you have a lot you have yet to process because your anger is pretty intense. And I get that. I really do. But what I and others can tell you is, long term, that's not going to get you anywhere. My hope for you is when you think of whoever it is that has hurt you, you simply acknowledge they're sick and move forward as best you can...without the anger. Trust me, when you let that anger go, it's a relief.

One more thing...

Showing compassion to the addict isn't about the addict. It's about us, and by showing compassion to someone who's sick is healing, believe it or not. That doesn't mean what they've done is OK, because it's not. But at the end of the day, none of us are perfect and I can tell you from experience that under the right conditions, we're all capable of saying or doing horrible things.

Best,
ZoSo

Chino

I used to think of some people in terms of being a POS.

But then, after some intensive therapy, I realized that was a reflection of the contemptuous person I had allowed myself to become. After all, I wasn't born that way and it wasn't making me happy. Purity of soul cannot be lost without consent.

I hope you choose to find inner peace, instead of choosing to live in bitterness and contempt.

DoubleBarrel

Listen to what Winddancer says.
I smoked pot at 13, and started drinking hard liquor on my 13th birthday.
I was an addict by 15.
Do you know any 15 year olds? Take a look at them and tell me if you think they should be bulldozed, or if they are pieces of ****.

At that point, I was addicted, because my life was literally and figuratively painful, and it made me feel a little better, a little more in control of the abuse I suffered, and a little less in fear, anxiety and pain.

I didn't think I was an addict at the time, even though my behavior might have suggested otherwise.
Sadly, the victim becomes the perpetrator in many cases, mine included.
I am rigorously trying to make amends and in cases where possible, undo what I did.

I understand the pain you feel. I try to not hold resentments against those that damaged me years ago, so I get it.

But please understand, that we are not just careless selfish assholes who don't care about people, and thats why we started using.

Most of us were anxious, sensitive people, whos using ultimately made us into careless selfish assholes.

I hope you find some peace with what you are dealing with. Sincerely.

DoubleBarrel

[QUOTE=RedBaron5;3706536] How many scummy babies have you met?
Do you think that they were born that way?
If not, you acknowledge, perhaps reluctantly that people are formed by experience.
And some overcome things, while others simply don't. They succumb.
Why do some people succumb to PTSD, while others don't?
You could take two different people, and hit them on the arm, and ones arm would break where the other didn't.

We are all different people, and situations effect us differently.
I wish I was never an addict, that I wouldn't have to be vigilant about it as long as I live.
But thats reality. If you really examine it, I think you would realize that no one in their right mind would ever subject themselves to addiction.

That goes for the addicts, as well as those who choose to be around them.

Are you scummy, for being sober, and voluntarily hanging out with such degenerates?
Of course not.

Katiekate

I think it's it's important for us, codies, to be able to come here and express our feelings fully, it helps us to move through our pain.

It is often posted here around the forum that when our a's are beginning or in recovery we need to back off because we don't understand how painful the process is.

I think the same miight be true for some of the A's a well.

All of our stories are painful, it's difficult for me sometimes when I get the feeling that there are addicts or alcoholics taking offense in our process.

For every tit , there is a tat. But that's not the point.

Redbaron is hurting, becuase of addcition, we all are. Compassion is needed.

ricmcc

Man, the irony of this is killing me; quit drinking just over 8 months ago, smoking almost 3 weeks ago, and now it turns out that I'll meet my end via bulldozer. This is worse then the Beatles breaking up. Sorry for kidding about, it's just my way of dealing with venenous rants. Rick

DoubleBarrel

I agree with you. All the rage in the world, however, hasnt given me the insight that I gained when I realized that my mother was beaten by her alcoholic father, and when I imagined her as a scared little girl, the compassion that instilled took a ton of resentment with it.
It was a relief.

interrupted

Thanks just wasn't enough for this one. If the thread is too triggering, sometimes it's better to just step away for a while. I do it all the time.

I arrived at this board just as mad as Red, I think many of us did. Living with that kind of anger sucks the life out of you, and it will creep into and destroy your healthy relationships, relationships that have nothing to do with the addict. It will steal all of the joy from your life and replace it with grief. Allowing yourself to continue to hold that deep resentment is allowing the addict to continue to have control over your feelings. And that's not on them, that's on you and me.

Yes, we were wronged, but I choose to let it go. Choosing anything else is allowing yourself to be wronged over and over again, and you own that.