RedBaron5

Mine, but that is like saying that makes it ok? The manipulator, is still the one doing something MALACIOUS.

Kindeyes

I agree. Addiction is not an excuse for unacceptable behavior.....a reason perhaps.....but it does not excuse it. You can't imagine being an addict because you aren't an addict. Just like you can't imagine being a cancer patient unless you've been one. The concept of choices is interesting. Drinking or using is a choice initially (just like smoking cigarettes is initially a choice). Becoming an addict happens--no choice involved there--like getting cancer from smoking isn't a choice. Not everyone who drinks or dabbles in drug use is destined to become an addict or, in the event of the smoker, get cancer. Recovery from addiction or getting treatment such as chemo (for the cancer patient who smoked) is a choice. A cancer patient who refuses treatment could conceivably be hurting their loved ones by making a choice that was not in alignment with the desires of their loved ones. And if only....if only they would have stopped smoking cigarettes, perhaps they wouldn't have cancer now.

But you're right.......comparing addiction to cancer is not really appropriate....it's apples and oranges. Addiction is a baffling and cunning disease. It is a disease that affects the body, the mind, and the spirit of a person. And to protect and care for ourselves, it may be best for us to separate ourselves from the addict. That is a consequence of the addict's choice not to seek recovery/treatment for their disease. Unfortunately, sometimes the choices of other people hurt us too. But it wouldn't hurt us if we didn't care......often we knew them before addiction......and that's who we love......that's who we want back. That's why we hurt.

We can love people unconditionally but that does not mean we have to unconditionally accept bad behavior. We take care of ourselves first but that also doesn't mean that we should condemn addicts all to hell. It means that we let them experience the consequences of their addiction and the associated behaviors fully.....if that means that they lose us.....so be it. If that means jail or prison......so be it. If that means experiencing homelessness.....so be it. It's hard to watch from a front row seat so many of us choose not to.

Self care is critical to our survival. Take care of you. That's not just "ok".....it's the best thing we can do for ourselves so that we don't continue to be a victim.

I don't think anyone here would argue that addiction is pure evil. I hate addiction. But I don't hate those afflicted.........in fact.....some of the nicest, most sincere, loving, intelligent, courageous people I know are addicts who are working a program of recovery. If they were all just all condemned to death, this world would be minus a bunch of really cool people who eventually do find recovery. I hope and pray that someday my son will be one of them but until that happens......I may have to love him from afar so that I don't continue to be a willing victim. I hope and pray that your loved one finds recovery, but she may have to do it without you. Consequence.

I'm so sorry you are hurting. Addiction hurts people and addicts in active addiction seem oblivious to that. You can't change that but you can change you, your feelings, your attitudes, your thought processes, your emotions, your reactions.......that's what OUR recovery is about.

I will never be grateful that my son is an addict.....but I am eternally grateful for the lessons I've learned, the people I've met, and the changes I have made that are all a direct result of his addiction.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

Windancer

So, if I understand RedBaron5, that because you dont understand, and made yourself a willing victim, that almost everyone on this forum needs to be put in a trench and bulldozed? I mean, I didnt even see any compassion for how that remark can hurt and damage people here. If you werent referring to addicts in general in your OP, Id have a lot more understanding.

Windancer

...also, no one that I know has ever "chosen" to be an addict.

RedBaron5

I don't understand this. I know a 100% certain way to never become a heroin addict, Never use heroin. I know a 100% certain way to never become a meth addict, never use meth. I can't wrap my head around the fact that it all started with one simple choice, to use a substance. So how did they not chose to become addicts? Each person made a choice, and weather or not the body or mind or they became addicted, it all started with a choice, how did they not choose to become addicts?

I suppose I think what defines a person is the choices that they make. Every trace of how they became an addict can be traced back to a choice that they made, or 100 little choices over time. How does this not make for a bad human being in general?

I simply can't wrap my head around this.

Windancer

My mother gave me my first rolled joint when I was barely 14, and also gave me my first drink when I was barely 14. So you think that was my fault? I was a kid. My brain hadnt even fully developed. Also, what about all the people who drink "normally"? They "used" a substance once, too.

Windancer

I understand you are hurting. I am sorry for that. But no one is perfect...including you. People make mistakes....we live and learn.

RedBaron5

I'm certainly hurting, I'm also certainly trying to understand. I know I didn't cause it, Can't cure it, and cant control it. What I can do is work on myself and move certain people onto my "piece of sht" list.

Thepatman

Reading about addiction might help you. The addict at some point cannot think clearly, everything is distorted. I did things drunk I would never do sober. Like commiting suicide. I was killing myself but wanted to live. Is that logical? People are not themselves under the influence. FACT.

And that's all I have to say about this.

Windancer

You are right in that you didnt cause it, cant cure it and cant control it. Im just not sure that having a "piece of s*it list" is the healthiest way for you to recover. I think that forgiveness and tolerance is healthier. If an addict is damaging your quality of life, by all means remove them! Look after you. But Id hesitate to generalize.

Katiekate

Hi Redbaron, your anger and hurt is so huge, I certainly understand.

I too was brought to my knees by someone married to addiction, horrible horribe things said and done to me, things I can't ever imagine doing to anyone.

I think that addicts as some point choose to use, but I think that the addcition aspect of this disease is something they never expect, I don't think they choose addiction, I believe that they get caught up in it, we all think it won't happen to us, and then it does.

It doesnt ever excuse the behavior, it really is a disease, once the brain is addicted, the adddiction has control.

I spent a lot of time being very angry and hurt, I wasted a lot of time thinking about what he was doing instead of putting my attention on what I was doing. I let it go on for far too long, and I am still healing, I still muster up anger over it. When the anger and hurt became too uncomfortable for me, I began my own healing. It was so hard and their was so much work to do, the early months were horrible but I am so much better now.

My xabf was a wonderful , smart, handsome, loving man when he was sober, and a monster when he was drunk, I guess I thought he would change, but he never did and he continued to drink . I don't know why I didn't leave the first time I was abused, that's on me.

I have compassion for him, some days, but he is still a ****, he is also a deeply wounded human being who is unable to deal with his own pain, so he covers it up, he learned at 14 years old that booze made him feel better. And he is still a ****, he is lost.

I know your anger, and hurt, for me, once I turned my attention to healing myself and got out of my own denial about how I was just allowing his problem to become mine, I began to heal.

I'm so sorry you feel so angry, keep posting, we care, Katie

Katiekate

That's a good plan

I suppose I think what defines a person is the choices that they make. Every trace of how they became an addict can be traced back to a choice that they made, or 100 little choices over time. How does this not make for a bad human being in general?

I don't think it makes them a bad human being in general, just a human being that made a bad choice. A choice that they have to live with, not me.

Thepatman

In perspective, anger is also an addiction. It has the same attributes, if you let it, it will control you, require constant feeding, clouds your judgement, and makes you say and do things you would not normally do.

Katiekate

It's a process, just like withdrawing and choosing sobriety, it's also a choice, one only a co dependent just as an addict can make, when they are ready, when they hit bottom. Codies and addcits are alike in many ways, we all need compassion from each other.

Windancer

Compassion is important I think.
Indeed, addicts do have to live with the consequences of our actions. As do codies. So does everyone, really.

RedBaron, I hope you can come to terms with all this and find peace minus hatred and anger along the way

Seren

No it doesn't. Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior. Perhaps you missed the part where my stepson threatened to kill three members of his own family? This is not someone I'm going to invite for Christmas Dinner yet.

Your anger is perfectly understandable and you are perfectly entitled to it. I just hope, for your sake, that you will eventually be able to move on from it. Vent away here all you need to!

You will notice that many of us have reached a point where we love the addicts in our lives, but we just don't have that front row seat to their drama anymore. Believe me, it's a process that takes time.

Please take good care of yourself!

Anaya

I see that the OP is venting and am not judging.

I understand the pain experienced by those close to an addicted loved one.

I believe there's truth in that.

In the case of some engaged in self-destructive behavior, encountering negativity feeds their self-hatred. In the midst of the choaos my family experienced in the past, I have said things to my husband privately about our AS that I would not say to son's face; I was venting and I realize it was in the heat of the moment. At the same time, I admonished my husband and cringed when he would blast my son to his face with name calling and verbal attacks, since I knew the words blew my young son to pieces.

Anaya

Well said. It is good to hear you're in a better place.

milo88

Sometimes you do, or I have anyway, but it's the other memories that remind you that they're not or they weren't anyway. I'm not sure about the willing victim bit either - you're only willing once you've got all the information. Before you know everything you're just a person that trusted another person and got burnt. And there has to be some anger about that. It wouldn't be natural to not have anger about that.
Then when you learn more, the anger turns to be grief. I think now I would have been better off to turn away after the first betrayal. After that I guess you do become a willing victim.
I went through a stage of anger towards addicts in general too. I think it's normal to feel anger when someone ruins the future you imagined with them for something so incomprehensible as a substance. It makes you feel like **** yourself. Why would somebody choose that over love? It's something so hard to understand when you don't have the problem.

Ann

My son struggles with mental issues, is addicted to drugs, has been missing lost in his addiction for years, and is a very sick person. He has broken the law and gone to jail, he has found recovery and lost it countless times. He is the ragged man you see on the street. He is the sad soul sleeping on a park bench. He is the beggar asking for spare change.

Underneath the addiction he is a kind, gentle soul. He is funny, caring, loving and has a big heart. He is a loving son, father, friend and he hates who he has become. He lives a life of despair, hopelessness and pain.

God loves all His children. God loves my son and so do I. What he did, what I did no longer matters. The resentment has been replaced by forgiveness, the fear has been replaced by faith, and the love for my son has never waivered for even a moment.

I hate what he did, I hate how many years I lost trying to fix what was not mine to fix, I hate addiction for stealing our loved ones. But I love my son, always have, always will.

Recovery brought me this far and gave me peace and acceptance of that which I cannot change. I hope it brings you this same peace one day.

Hugs