Why are NA and AA / Nar-Anon and Al-Anon separate organizations?

Old 11-20-2012, 08:27 PM
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Why are NA and AA / Nar-Anon and Al-Anon separate organizations?

First of all, I want to clarify the title of this thread – what I don't understand is why NA and AA are separate organizations, as well as Nar-Anon and Al-Anon. I do, however, understand why NA and Nar-Anon or AA and Al-Anon, respectively, are separate.

By no means am I asking this because I want to spearhead a union of the organizations -- I simply don't understand why each pair (NA & AA and Nar-Anon & Al-Anon) are separate. Are they so distinct from each other? Is there a separate culture for alcoholics than for addicts who use other substances? The same goes for friends and families – is an alcoholic's spouse or child, etc. dealing with different issues than a friend or family member of a substance addict?

Again, I'm asking because I don't understand, not because I have an ulterior motive. On the boards here I've encountered people who say things like "I'm an alcoholic who would always end up snorting coke" and in my experience with my companion, he would often drug himself with alcohol (to start), but sometimes it would be pot that he'd start with and move on from there.... or sometimes he'd just drink....

These are the sorts of things I don't understand. Isn't alcohol a drug just like any of the other substances that people use? [Obviously, I'm talking about the addiction process, not the actual chemical makeup of any particular drug.] And isn't a heroin addict dealing with the same issues about using as an alcoholic? [Again, I'm not equating the drugs; I'm asking "Isn't the underlying addiction similar/the same?"] I ask because I'm ignorant and I'd like to understand things better.

And so with Nar-Anon and Al-Anon – what makes them different? I personally go to Nar-Anon and have never been to an Al-Anon meeting, although a great deal of the literature that we read in my groups comes directly from Al-Anon. Is there a reason why these groups are separate that I have no clue about? Are the issues of acceptance, detachment, control, manipulation, self esteem, grief, letting go, etc., etc., different in each organization?


I would greatly appreciate to hear what people have to say (those with experience in any of the organizations I mentioned)... maybe I'm just wasting time that I should be spending working on myself, but the question has been sitting in the back of my mind for a while and I just decided to let it out.


Thanks.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:46 PM
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The reason is largely historical--the same reason why alcohol is legal when other similar substances are not.

As one very old-timer told me, he thought that if Bill W started the organization today, it would be Addictions Anonymous focusing on the behavior rather than the specific substance that is the object of that behavior.

That said, alcohol has a different place in our world than other narcotics. The pathology is the same, but the window dressing is different.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:16 AM
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Singleness of purpose is vital to the survival of these programs. We can't be all things to all people.

Check out the history of AA. How the traditions came about etc.
They learned a lot from their predecessors like the Wahingtonians and Oxford group. Groups that faded out because they had their hands in too much.

"Shoemaker, stick to thy last!" comes to mind.
Best to do one thing really well than many things half heartedly.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:25 AM
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NA/Naranon started after AA/Al-Anon. I assumed, especially after having been in Al-Anon for a long time and doing volunteering at the group rep and state convention level, that NA/Naranon was created because old-timers in AA were not comfortable with anything but alcohol addiction. I've heard old-timers talk about how when they were young, if their siblings got involved in illegal drugs, they would beat the heck out of them - even though they themselves were hugely into alcohol!! Illegal drugs were a huge taboo even in the drinking community. I wish that were still the case.

Nowadays it is hard to come across anyone who just is addicted to alcohol. I'm thinking that as the years go by there will not be much difference between the two programs. I gotta say, though, that while at an Alanon meeting I feel uncomfortable talking about my son's use of illegal drugs and the fears/worries that I have that go with the illegal aspect of it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:20 AM
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I agree with the above posters. It is a slightly different experience knowing your loved one is out boozing at the bar legally, and buying his drug from a pretty bartender, than the one who is at the dopehouse surrounded by felons and getting his drug from someone who could kill you if they wanted to. IME although alcoholics and addicts are similar, there are differences. I feel that its like geometry, a square will always be and has to be a rectangle, but that does not mean that every rectangle is a square.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:54 AM
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I would encourage anyone interested in singleness of purpose to read the pamphlet "Problems Other Than Alcohol" written by Bill Wilson. It can be found on the AA website. A lot of good information there.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:25 AM
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I appreciate the answers so far and I hope to hear more, but I'd like to ask even MORE questions, based on what some of the other posters have said. However, please keep in mind that I have no intention to be snarky -- I'm responding with questions about something that is very complex and difficult for all of us (addicts and families/friends) to comprehend:

• What did alcoholics in the USA do during the era of Prohibition? The sale of alcohol was illegal, and we can be sure that that did not stop the majority of alcoholics from obtaining it, just like addicts of heroin, cocaine, crack, etc. today find ways to obtain illegal substances.

• Buying glue or gasoline and inhaling the fumes doesn't involve the purchase of an illegal substance, but I know of addicts who do that. Every few weeks there's a new substance on the streets, one that has yet to be classified as illegal by the government. Does ANYTHING about the addict's illness change on the day that his/her drug of choice is categorized as "illegal"?

• Are there no alcoholics who resort to prostitution to support themselves and obtain alcohol? Is that not illegal activity in most parts of the USA? Are there no alcoholics who steal? None who drive while intoxicated? There is PLENTY of illegality associated with alcoholism, so saying that the difference between AA and NA or Al-Anon and Nar-Anon is LEGALITY simply does not hold water in my mind.

And the "social acceptance" of alcohol (and alcoholism) doesn't hold water, either. Marijuana is basically just as accepted in the minds of the most people under 40, and in richer circles in the 70's and 80's, cocaine use was just as common and considered the norm. Yes, alcohol IS the most readily available drug in our culture, and it permeates our social interactions, but does that make alcoholics different in any substantial way? Are the families and friends different in any substantial way? We can't even say that alcoholism is "slower" in terms of the disease's progress, or that an alcoholic develops over more time than, say, a crack addict. Yes, I know that some alcoholics became addicts over time (as is the case with some other substances), but how many accounts have we all heard of an alcoholic who knew at the first time that he or she got drunk that this was "the one" for them?

This sounds like "terminal uniqueness" thinking: that somehow alcoholics are different than other drug addicts, that since alcohol (and therefore, alcoholism) has been in human culture for thousands of years it's somehow more acceptable, or that the "newer" substances have less pedigree of something like that.

This is divisive and stigmatizing. Why should a mother have to feel uncomfortable at an Al-Anon meeting when she talks about her son's use of illegal drugs? WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT OUR EFFORTS TO UNDERSTAND THE ILLNESS?
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
Addiction is addiction, with the common symptoms of denial, obsession, compulsion, and self-centeredness. Where addictions differ is how they present themselves, drug use, alcohol, people, food, sex, gambling, whatever the repeated behavior despite negative consequences. Imagine if AA was started in today’s politically correct environment, AA would stand for Addictions Anonymous…all addictions would be included and nobody would have a program tailored for their specific needs.
I absolutely appreciate what is being said here, but whereas I can see specific differences between the various addictions you mention, I still fail to see a substantive difference between "drugs" and "alcohol", both in regards to the illness for the addict and the illness for the loved one.

And I just want to say again that I'm not asking these questions because I want to start arguments – I am trying to understand something that is very unclear to me. I respect and appreciate everyone's point of view and it helps me see the bigger picture.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:09 AM
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I'd just like to add one more comment – in my first post I mentioned that a great deal of the literature that we read in my Nar-Anon groups are books that have been published by Al-Anon. That literature is the backbone of our meetings, and I've never heard anything in any of the testimonials, etc. that they contain that I found out of place in terms of my experiences, and from the reactions of other members of my groups, I believe that they would say the same.

However, one time a mother from a distant, rural part of the country (15 hours away by car) came to my group and said that although the only form of support that is within reach to her is an Al-Anon group, she was told by them that she had to seek a Nar-Anon group because her son uses other substances.

That's what led me to write my original post. There may be some very pertinent reasons why these pairs of groups are separate, but at this point I don't understand why.

It doesn't really matter very much in terms of my recovery, however. I continue learning and growing.... As I spend more time in Nar-Anon, I feel immense gratitude for what it has given to me. I am now being asked to coordinate meetings and offer other services, and I find that I want to understand more about issues like the one I introduced with my post.


Please keep contributing comments.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:28 PM
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The question about Addicts at AA meetings comes up all the time on the 12-step forums. It usually starts quite a heated debate. Here is a link to one such debate if you want to get some perspective.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...eting-nas.html
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:15 PM
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Misoberbio -- You bring up good issues.

I never felt a compulsion to drink but rather used crack. I feel more commonality with people in AA because my pattern of use was closer to them than people in NA or other groups.

There are differences in behavior among addicts, but they do not necessarily fall along lines of the substance. (As one person here described narcotic users as being found "at the dopehouse surrounded by felons and getting his drug from someone who could kill you if they wanted to." Not my experience at all--I always had my crack left with the receptionist or doorman.)

I think the idea of singleness of purpose is a good one....but I think it would be better served by looking at HOW the substance is used rather than WHAT substance is used. Though few would describe me as an alcoholic, AA was where I found people who shared my experience.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:36 AM
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Marcus, thank you for the link – as you said, the discussion can be quite heated; at some points it seems like people are debating religious dogma.

Miamifella, thanks for your comment. It is new to me to read that it's your pattern of use that unites you with AA – something I never considered before. It would be great to read more comments from folks with similar or alternative experience.

I realize that AA vs. NA issues are "other side of the street" for me, but Al-Anon and Nar-Anon are closely related to these groups, both in terms of their histories and their communities. It helps me to learn more about this "family disease"...

In my personal experience, my companion is currently in a rehab community here in Argentina and it is 12-Step "informed," by which I mean to say is that the 12 Steps are used as part of the everyday social structure. They have "group" twice a day, but there is weekly personal psychological treatment as well as cognitive behavior therapy. In this community, there are people from all parts of the country, from all economic "classes" (absolutely nothing like the "Malibu" treatment centers and their ilk exist in this country), and their patterns of use run the entire gamut of substance addictions (and, yes, alcohol is a "substance"). It is neither AA nor NA, although the patients are required to go to either (or both) when they begin their social reinsertion.

This community also urges family members/loved ones to go to Nar-Anon or Al-Anon; in fact, it counts on that. More than any others, they can see the parents'/partner's illness that almost invariably goes hand-in-hand with the substance addict's illness. They see it time and time again.... So, this is why I'm asking my questions: these organizations are closely, intimately linked, but there is a division between AA and NA, and Al-Anon and Nar-Anon, respectively, that doesn't make sense to me.

Miamifella's comment about his process is one of the first clearly-stated, non-dogmatic reasons I've encountered as to why someone would choose AA over NA, but it seems certain that his reasoning would be considered downright heretical to a significant percentage of AA members. From some experiences I've read or heard about personally, there would be a similar reaction from a significant percentage of Al-Anon members. Why is that so?

The AA vs. NA issues are things for those folks to deal with, I'm well aware of that, but there's a "trickle-down" effect in Al-Anon and Nar-Anon and it makes no sense to me. I can see why the partner of a gambling addict should seek a recovery group that is focused on that problem, which is distinct enough from drug addiction to warrant its own "singleness of purpose," but there are people being turned away from (or ashamed to share in) Al-Anon groups because their loved one's drug of choice isn't alcohol (a drug of choice). How can this have any bearing on the purpose of that group? Is the mother or wife of a crack addict different than the mother or wife of a person who is addicted to alcohol?

If, for some folks, the answer is yes, then we're in for a ride through some pretty nasty territory.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:50 PM
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Where I live there is no Nar-anon, we have Al-anon and Families Anon
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bbthumper View Post
Singleness of purpose is vital to the survival of these programs. We can't be all things to all people.
Thank you for this simple explanation...well said.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MiSoberbio View Post
First of all, I want to clarify the title of this thread – what I don't understand is why NA and AA are separate organizations, as well as Nar-Anon and Al-Anon. I do, however, understand why NA and Nar-Anon or AA and Al-Anon, respectively, are separate.

By no means am I asking this because I want to spearhead a union of the organizations -- I simply don't understand why each pair (NA & AA and Nar-Anon & Al-Anon) are separate. Are they so distinct from each other? Is there a separate culture for alcoholics than for addicts who use other substances? The same goes for friends and families – is an alcoholic's spouse or child, etc. dealing with different issues than a friend or family member of a substance addict?

Again, I'm asking because I don't understand, not because I have an ulterior motive. On the boards here I've encountered people who say things like "I'm an alcoholic who would always end up snorting coke" and in my experience with my companion, he would often drug himself with alcohol (to start), but sometimes it would be pot that he'd start with and move on from there.... or sometimes he'd just drink....

These are the sorts of things I don't understand. Isn't alcohol a drug just like any of the other substances that people use? [Obviously, I'm talking about the addiction process, not the actual chemical makeup of any particular drug.] And isn't a heroin addict dealing with the same issues about using as an alcoholic? [Again, I'm not equating the drugs; I'm asking "Isn't the underlying addiction similar/the same?"] I ask because I'm ignorant and I'd like to understand things better.

And so with Nar-Anon and Al-Anon – what makes them different? I personally go to Nar-Anon and have never been to an Al-Anon meeting, although a great deal of the literature that we read in my groups comes directly from Al-Anon. Is there a reason why these groups are separate that I have no clue about? Are the issues of acceptance, detachment, control, manipulation, self esteem, grief, letting go, etc., etc., different in each organization?


I would greatly appreciate to hear what people have to say (those with experience in any of the organizations I mentioned)... maybe I'm just wasting time that I should be spending working on myself, but the question has been sitting in the back of my mind for a while and I just decided to let it out.


Thanks.
Jeez, replying/posting on forums requires a tedious process of registration. So I was actually trying to find out what the differences were between the two organizations, not the separation of alcohol and narcotic divisions and came across your post, which likely you wont read my reply as it is 5 years overdue but someone else might.

So in your post you made specific inquiry pertaining to a possibility of there being a distinct subculture that is unique to either alcohol users and other substance users. To my understanding this is the principle which has led to the separation between designations. However, as you also mention, the specific substance a person has developed an addiction toward is an aspect of addiction that is, from a macro perspective, mostly inconsequential. When observing addiction from this macro scope the fundamental processes involved with conditioning behavior are consistent which likely relies on operant conditioning methods, although the reward/punishment structure is somewhat obscured from how these processes would typically be viewed.

As you inferred, there is a unique culture common to the varied substances/mechanisms that facilitate the addictive process, however, I do not believe this alone fully explains the separation of alcohol/substance programs. I believe that cultural perceptions and the associated negative connotation to alcohol vs other types is the primary force which has created such a division. Because of the lesser degree of stigmatization that is applied to alcohol users vs alternative addictive modes this disparate perception has manifested to create the division of these two organization branches. Sex, gambling, food, theft or any distinct addictive mechanism all inherently operate under the same principles and each also have characteristics unique to its specific manifestation. There is also some variance biochemically in how the addictive process functions at the molecular level in addition to the distinct social/cultural elements common to any particular substance/behavior facilitating addiction.

The premise qualifying my opinion is derived from observing only a separation applied to alcohol and not being applied to any other substance/behavior. Alcohol is absolutely a drug and the differences between alcohol and marijuana are equivalent to that of marijuana and heroin or alcohol and heroin. The manner in which society views and engages the topic of consuming alcohol is elevated from the plane relegated to substances that are deemed unacceptable by society and subsequently prohibited and made illegal. This same state of inflated morality exists between opiate addicts who are prescribed the drug as opposed to those who consume the prohibited forms.

That’s my two cents on the subject anyways.
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