SadHeart

Talking to a friend just starting the codependency w/an alkie spouse path.

She said, "I can't give up until I know I've tried everything."

Who among us haven't said that? It sounds so strong, so noble, so determined. And I had nothing to say, because I know 'everything' won't work; she'll just waste another couple years, a lot more money, and have a longer list of pain to overcome, and being far more impoverished financially, emotionally, physically, friendship and family-wise when she does give up.

But...it sounds so loving and strong and in control and noble and self-less. We feel like heroes, and don't care if we are doomed heroes, we plow ahead.

And it almost always fails.

I know why we do it: we are controlling, we are stubborn, we are going to beat this thing, we are going to force our will on another human being and on an inanimate object, we are going to be worthy of a Lifetime movie, we are going to conqueror this come hell or high water; the challenge is greater than most other challenges and the reward will be greater too.

We also do it to avoid finally having to deal with the problems that have been with us prior to even meeting the substance abuser: the unhealthy messages imprinted in our brains from our childhood, our fears of abandonment, rejection, unlovability, our poor life coping skills, etc...

My friend said that with exactly the same face and in exactly the same tone I said that years ago. She has such a long, painful, hard road ahead her and it does not end well. And yet, there's determination in her, a fire in her soul, a zeal, a pride, and her own unshakeable belief in the righteousness of her mission. She's proud of herself. I know; I've stood in her shoes and said those same words.

She believes even if she fails it's will be a noble failure. I know it's won't be. The ending, like it was for almost all of us will be sordid, painful, humiliating and utterly complete. She thinks her 'doing everything before giving up' will bring her comfort; I know it won't, it will make her feel ashamed.

The 'everything' we intend to do somehow doesn't include leaving him/her alone, working on ourselves, letting go, detaching with love, saying 'no', setting boundaries, steeling our hearts against the appeals, being quiet, hanging up the phone, not answering the text; telling the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth to our family, their/our bosses, the neighbors, ourselves; holding a silencing hand up to the friend who has 'helpful' information, putting down the book on alcoholism and picking up a book on codependency--or even a novel.

Healthy people don't 'try' everything in these situations and call themselves noble. Healthy people weigh the pros and cons and when the cons outweigh the pros, walk away--even if there's a pro or two left to explore. They cut their losses early.

Somewhere on this board there's a powerful sticky about how we think we are special and they will be different with us. This is the same genre of delusional thinking: that it's noble to fight someone else's battle with alcoholism to the death.

We aren't special, it won't be different, and we aren't noble. We are just hardheaded and controlling and determinedly blind. Nothing admirable about that. We are just like the alcoholic.

I like her a lot, I won't be able to tell her a thing. Although I did say all the above. Once. I believe you can say anything you believe once, it's your truth and you have a right to it. And sometimes it does help because the problem isn't neurosis in the listener but the reality that they never saw it that way, or they needed permission or outside validation NOT to fight the battle. But almost always, nobody listens. I don't remember if anyone ever told me the truth about 'trying everything before giving up'. I wasn't listening. I was too busy being noble, fighting the sacred battle, saving the world one person at a time. I was too busy being a hero.

I'm sad for my friend. Trapped by foolish words. The way I once was. The next couple years of her life are going to be terrible.

eveleivibe

Sometimes the more something is against us the more we fight. Even though the fire is smothered by coal n obviously cannot burn we we still try putting more coal on to try keep the fire going.

Although i did not split with an ex due to addiction - i was in denial about things n the more ppl tried splitting us up the more i fought, even though i knew he had also given up, that i was just a name on a long list of women n that everyone, including the authorities were right about him not being good for me or my daughter.

Hope your friends' years are not so terrible n that s/he right to find them happiness

Evey

drc5426

Thank you for this. I was having such a horrible day and I needed to read this.

sojourner

SadHeart: How very powerful. I have been in both sets of shoes. I still am at times, but mostly not.

Thank you for this share. So insightful. Your healing shows in your merciful attitude toward your friend.

LoveMeNow

Great post Sad heart!! Your recovery is shining!!

I said the same exacts words too. I fought a battle that was unbeatable. I, too, hard to learn the hard way and continue to feel the consequences of my decisions.

But in some ways I am thankful, I finally realized I had a problem that had been ignored and it was time for ME to get healthy. My journey is far from over, but as I walk it now, I am trying hard to stay on a healthy path. I guess we can only pray your friend finds her bottom soon and starts working on herself. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

jerect

[QUOTE=SadHeart;3679829]Talking to a friend just starting the codependency w/an alkie spouse path.

She said, "I can't give up until I know I've tried everything."

.[/QUOTE

I used to live by this statement.. I tried everything to get my AH clean.. gave him money, paid his bills, called and texted his drug dealers threatening to contact the police if I found their number on my phone bill ( yeah I really did that lol), flushed his pills, went through his things, went to meetings with him, left him, took him back.. oh my lord the list of things I tried is exhausting
The only thing that worked for me was walking away.. just throwing in the towel and saying I give up, cant and wont live like this anymore.. My HP can take care of my AH just like he can take care of me.. It took me a loooooooooong time to get to that point though.. five very long exhausting years.. I look back now on how crazy my life has been, the crazy things I did to try and control his addiction and it makes me sad.. sad for me that I wasted five years when the answer is simple.. just walk away, I can fix him.. I cant make him hit a bottom, only he can do that for himsself..

LoveMeNow

[QUOTE=jerect;3680072] I hope you don't beat yourself up for "wasting 5 years." It's never a waste, if you learn something about yourself, grow and change.

Isn't it crazy how much we try to fix, but in reality we are only making it worse for both sides.

Codependency and addiction is nothing short of the perfect storm!!

jerect

[QUOTE=LoveMeNot;3680081] Nope, no use crying over spilled milk as the old saying goes..

Even though the last 5 years have been hell!! I have to say that I have learned so much about myself and grown so much as a person, so I wouldent consider them a waste at all.. God puts people in our lives for different reasons and maybe this was just a growing period for me..

I dont even harbor hate and discontent for my STBXH, I honestly pray and will continue to pray that somewhere down the road he will find recovery.. maybe him loosing his marriage will be the bottom he needs and maybe it wont be..

Lily1918

I want to be there. I still answer the phone. I can't stop praying for a miracle. ugh. it is prideful and noble of us isn't it? For me it is letting go of the dream. I have the terminal uniqueness form of denial " he is different than them..." but then at last nights meeting I her stories of recovery, and then I get insanely jealous. If the grass is greener where you water it, then why won't mine water his? Yes. of course I want to water my own, but still. why them? and not him? I thought mine was special like thiers. but I do know that I am special, and I can be a miracle.

kthopkt

So true...everything you said. I remember my "noble" nights searching the streets for my brother, knocking on drug dealers doors, chasing the brother I thought I could save. And, doing it over and over again. I was important to him; maybe even more important than anyone else & I was determined to fix him.

What utter disappointment I was in for & I didn't even know it.

Truth be told: even with your above advice I would have still done the same thing & so will your friend. So sad.

MrsDragon

Your post is so heartfelt, and the pain and suffering you endured comes through loud and clear.

I think it is important to realize however, while your friends journey may run parallel to yours in many ways; as when dealing with addiction there is always heartache and pain.

But also know that when a person says "until they try everything"; this is based on their own tolerance level, their own ground zero. That may not be equal to yours; it could be much higher, and would never take them to the depths you endured. Likewise, it could be lower sinking to things you could not even imagine.

My point is, the way we handle things, the choices we make is based on so many individual factors; our own childhoods, life experiences, the overall health of our being...

Have faith in your friend, offer support and experience where you can, and leave the rest to her.

PaperDolls

Once we try everything .... we think of one more thing to try.

Tarot

I too felt it was my spiritual duty, my God given mission to help my addict. I had already given up and lost one...this other one had come into my life for a reason...I simply had to save him..!!! It took me another year of the same old hell to realise that a) I couldn't help him, b)he didn't want my help...not to get clean anyways.

I looked at the energy I was pouring out into the universe...deeply depressed, angry, hateful, hopeless, helpless, alone. scared to death, in bits and extremely lost. I think the energy I give off is my spiritual responsibility and it has an effect on the world and especially on those around us! I should be shining!!! Happy, strong, independent, living in and for truth, healthy and positive of heart, mind and soul, positive and a good influence! A vibe!

I couldn't do that with him in my life! Simple.
I also look at how I would want my kids to see and remember their mum!

Lily1918

And can anyone say why No Contact is always the last thing?

916Girl

This really spoke to me....because I have found myself saying the EXACT same thing about my situation.. I know I am stubborn, but I am learning that his failures are not my failures....

And... in my "everything"... why not try the things you mentioned? I want to work on me...and less on him. The more he gets in the way of me working on me, the more I know misery loves company.

I think I will make a reminder list of your suggestions to keep with me. Very helpful!

SadHeart

I started this thread before I read the other post about the partner who beat in his own face to manipulate his girlfriend into rehab--and then over involved himself in her treatment.

Is that what doing 'everything' can eventually bring us to? That we steal their property and fake a crime and micromanage their rehab to get them well? That we become worse than them because we don't have the excuse of physical dependency? Do we sell our integrity? Is that doing 'everything'?

And it doesn't work. We sell our souls in the effort to do everything--and it still doesn't work.

jerect

No Contact is probably the best thing!! It gets us away from the addict and forces us to put the focus solely on ourselves... It's probably the hardest thing to do as well especially if there are children involved

LoveMeNow

Because we still want to fix and rescue. We are still addicted to our addicts and their drama. No contact is for us though not them. It gives us time to clear our heads without all the insanity (guilt, manipulation, blame, lies).