Any guesses on what will happen next?
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Any guesses on what will happen next?
I know you all can't really predict what will happen next, but I bet some of you who have lots of experience can come pretty close.
Nothing has really changed since my last thread. AH is still living with me at home. I'm not any happier than I was a month ago; in fact I'm much more unhappy. I know I need to separate and live my own life. I just have to get some things in order first.
Lately, I've been really nervous about my AH "graduating" from oxy pills to using heroin. Maybe it's because I've read stories about people's addicts that do this.....maybe it's because I swear we only have like 9 teaspoons left in our silverware drawer.
How on earth would I know if he's using heroin? Would he even be able to get high from it since he's on methadone?
That's my next question. For those of you who have experience with addicts on a methadone or suboxone program, what were the results? I'm starting to feel like the addict is on a program like this for about 18 mo- 2 yrs; doesn't really work a recovery program like they should; and then they come off the program and relapse within a couple of months.
P.S.
I had a terrible nightmare last night. I posted about it in the Nightmare/Insomnia Section of SR if anyone is interested in dissecting my dream.
Thank you all for your comments!!
Nothing has really changed since my last thread. AH is still living with me at home. I'm not any happier than I was a month ago; in fact I'm much more unhappy. I know I need to separate and live my own life. I just have to get some things in order first.
Lately, I've been really nervous about my AH "graduating" from oxy pills to using heroin. Maybe it's because I've read stories about people's addicts that do this.....maybe it's because I swear we only have like 9 teaspoons left in our silverware drawer.
How on earth would I know if he's using heroin? Would he even be able to get high from it since he's on methadone?
That's my next question. For those of you who have experience with addicts on a methadone or suboxone program, what were the results? I'm starting to feel like the addict is on a program like this for about 18 mo- 2 yrs; doesn't really work a recovery program like they should; and then they come off the program and relapse within a couple of months.
P.S.
I had a terrible nightmare last night. I posted about it in the Nightmare/Insomnia Section of SR if anyone is interested in dissecting my dream.
Thank you all for your comments!!
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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My son used suboxone that he got from a doctor, but without any sort of program or rehab he stopped using it and eventually graduated to heroin. It was cheaper to use heroin than the oxy's he was using.
His girlfriend didn't know he was using heroin up until the end of their relationship. Once he started using heroin, things went south very quickly for him. Got two DUI's, lost his job, got in a car accident, lost his girlfriend. The judge ordered him to rehab. His girlfriend discovered the heroin use from finding needles in their bed. When he went to rehab (shortly after finding the needles) she had decided enough was enough and broke off their relationship. She has her own issues as a cocaine/oxy addict, but felt his heroin addiction was more than she was willing to live with.
When he went to rehab, he used suboxone for a couple weeks as part of his treatment I believe--not long term. He was in rehab for 28 days. He did have some relapses in the first year post rehab, but he now seems to be doing okay--no drugs, no suboxone.
So, you will know when your husband starts using heroin. He'll leave the evidence for you to find. If he uses heroin and it's like my son's experience, things will progress rather rapidly. While taking oxy's my son seemed to be functioning, but not so once heroin entered the picture.
His girlfriend didn't know he was using heroin up until the end of their relationship. Once he started using heroin, things went south very quickly for him. Got two DUI's, lost his job, got in a car accident, lost his girlfriend. The judge ordered him to rehab. His girlfriend discovered the heroin use from finding needles in their bed. When he went to rehab (shortly after finding the needles) she had decided enough was enough and broke off their relationship. She has her own issues as a cocaine/oxy addict, but felt his heroin addiction was more than she was willing to live with.
When he went to rehab, he used suboxone for a couple weeks as part of his treatment I believe--not long term. He was in rehab for 28 days. He did have some relapses in the first year post rehab, but he now seems to be doing okay--no drugs, no suboxone.
So, you will know when your husband starts using heroin. He'll leave the evidence for you to find. If he uses heroin and it's like my son's experience, things will progress rather rapidly. While taking oxy's my son seemed to be functioning, but not so once heroin entered the picture.
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Kmangel,
It's great to hear that your son is doing better now!
My AH goes to a methadone/suboxone clinic. He has to attend counseling and group sessions but there's no plan in place for him to become clean and sober. I think these places just like to keep people addicted so they can make money off of them.
Did you son act differently when he was on heroin than when he was on oxy? You said he could function on oxy but not heroin. Why? Was he sleeping or nodding off a lot?
It's great to hear that your son is doing better now!
My AH goes to a methadone/suboxone clinic. He has to attend counseling and group sessions but there's no plan in place for him to become clean and sober. I think these places just like to keep people addicted so they can make money off of them.
Did you son act differently when he was on heroin than when he was on oxy? You said he could function on oxy but not heroin. Why? Was he sleeping or nodding off a lot?
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I think it depends on the person. my RABF reached his bottom with pain pills and then got help. He is on subs now. So far, at least, he did not progress to heroin. He knows that if he had continued on pain pills, that should have been in his future.
My addicted step-daughter quickly progressed from alcohol, to methadone, to heroin--back to subs, methadone, heroin again, and ended up in jail. She is currently in inpatient rehab (she had a choice between that or jail). When she progressed to heroin, things quickly went downhill. She ended up in the hospital with a couple of infections from needles and was found passed out a few times. She started stealing from everyone including family members. We stopped hearing from her once we told her we weren't going to give her any money. The thing that got her in jail was breaking into houses and stealing. Like I said, it was a quick downhill progression. It was obvious within a couple of months what she was doing.
That's just my experience.
My addicted step-daughter quickly progressed from alcohol, to methadone, to heroin--back to subs, methadone, heroin again, and ended up in jail. She is currently in inpatient rehab (she had a choice between that or jail). When she progressed to heroin, things quickly went downhill. She ended up in the hospital with a couple of infections from needles and was found passed out a few times. She started stealing from everyone including family members. We stopped hearing from her once we told her we weren't going to give her any money. The thing that got her in jail was breaking into houses and stealing. Like I said, it was a quick downhill progression. It was obvious within a couple of months what she was doing.
That's just my experience.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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My husband went on Suboxone and started NA. He is an addict and wanted to do things "his" way. He tapered off suboxone way too fast because he feared the withdrawals from it. Ironically (not really), he went through miserable withdrawals from suboxone and relapsed soon after. His relapse wasn't long, he had continued going to NA and eventually went through another withdrawal from pills again but not nearly as bad. (not funny, but the stupidity of it makes me laugh in disbelief.)
He would tell anyone that suboxone is a nasty drug but he didn't follow his Dr. advice so.... The subject of suboxone and methadone has and always will be very debatable.
He told me that the suboxone made it way too easy to stop the pills and when he went off it, he was not prepared for how much his brain would be screaming for the drug. This time he is doing it without anything but NA, God, and willpower and it is much harder in the beginning.
From what I have read, heroin addicts can get high even while on Methadone. It just takes a lot more. Methadone is also very hard to come off of too. There is a recovering heroin addict on the substance abuse side, named Marcus that seems very willing to help others. I would ask him more, if you need to know.
It's hard not to be enmeshed in their addiction but we need to try. We will just become as sick as them. Well too late for me, lol, so now I need to get healthy. We can live our lives without worrying about them. The truth always surfaces and then you can make a decision based on fact. Go enjoy those beautiful kids of yours. Per English Garden, the addict does not get to be number one!!
He would tell anyone that suboxone is a nasty drug but he didn't follow his Dr. advice so.... The subject of suboxone and methadone has and always will be very debatable.
He told me that the suboxone made it way too easy to stop the pills and when he went off it, he was not prepared for how much his brain would be screaming for the drug. This time he is doing it without anything but NA, God, and willpower and it is much harder in the beginning.
From what I have read, heroin addicts can get high even while on Methadone. It just takes a lot more. Methadone is also very hard to come off of too. There is a recovering heroin addict on the substance abuse side, named Marcus that seems very willing to help others. I would ask him more, if you need to know.
It's hard not to be enmeshed in their addiction but we need to try. We will just become as sick as them. Well too late for me, lol, so now I need to get healthy. We can live our lives without worrying about them. The truth always surfaces and then you can make a decision based on fact. Go enjoy those beautiful kids of yours. Per English Garden, the addict does not get to be number one!!
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Originally Posted by Faithlove 
Did you son act differently when he was on heroin than when he was on oxy? You said he could function on oxy but not heroin. Why? Was he sleeping or nodding off a lot?
I just know that things all fell apart for him when he was on heroin (job, car, girlfriend) and it didn't take very long once on heroin--which is a good thing. The dominoes all started falling down around him and the hiding what he had been doing was over. Maybe it would have happened on oxy's, too, eventually. Perhaps heroin just sped up the process. Whatever it was, it's hopefully behind him now.
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Spoons aren't only used for heroin. He is an addict and IMO, he is not really wanting to get clean but is trying to appease you and his family.
The more he lies and gets away with it - the more powerful his disease will become. He is learning more and more ways how to protect it.
I had to keep reminding myself that love is not pity, love is not selfish. With addiction, love is allowing them to fall to their knees and call out for God over and over again.
The more he lies and gets away with it - the more powerful his disease will become. He is learning more and more ways how to protect it.
I had to keep reminding myself that love is not pity, love is not selfish. With addiction, love is allowing them to fall to their knees and call out for God over and over again.
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I don't have any experience with methadone, but I do have some information and experience regarding Suboxone. First of all, the addiction medical community seems to be quite divided on how it should be used. I volunteer at a highly respected rehab facility that USED to prescribe it as a maintenance drug, then did an about-face and now uses it only for a few days to detox. I've spoken to three of the doctors at the facility about their views on Suboxone as a maintenance drug, and all three gave it an unequivocal thumbs down. They said that much more often than not, addicts end up abusing it. They use it to manage their addiction - that is, they take the Subs when they can't get their DOC to avoid withdrawals, then stop taking it for a day or two so they can use heroin. And they sell it, as there is a pretty strong black market for the drug. My son did exactly this when he was prescribed Subs in an outpatient program (not through the same rehab facility). Another problem with Suboxone is that it is addicting, and there is the concern of simply substituting one addictive drug for another.
On the other hand, I have a friend - a heroin addict in recovery for over a year - who was on Subs for 10 months. He used the Subs the way they are supposed to be used - he moved into an SLE, began working a strong recovery program, was fully committed to recovery. Then, when he felt ready, he got off the Subs. He had to do two weeks in an inpatient program to kick the Subs, and said that he found the withdrawal to be at least as bad as a heroin withdrawal - the symptoms weren't as intense but they went on for a good 10 days. He tells me that he would never have been able to kick heroin without the Subs, as he needed those 10 months without cravings to get a strong foothold in recovery. After he detoxed from the Subs, he began to experience cravings again, but was in a much better place to combat them because he had developed a strong recovery program, had ditched his dealer and user friends, and had surrounded himself with a recovery community. He struggled with depression for a month or so, and then everything started to turn around for him. His outlook improved, and he has remained clean.
As usual, success comes down to whether the addict really wants recovery. If he's committed, then Subs can be a really helpful tool. Committed means throwing yourself into recovery, working a strong program, becoming part of a recovery community. You have to get all these pieces in place before jumping off the Subs, as those cravings will come flooding back and you need to be equipped to deal with them. Of course, if the addict is NOT serious about recovery, then Suboxone can facilitate the progression of the disease by providing him with a means to use without threat of withdrawal, and money to buy his DOC.
On the other hand, I have a friend - a heroin addict in recovery for over a year - who was on Subs for 10 months. He used the Subs the way they are supposed to be used - he moved into an SLE, began working a strong recovery program, was fully committed to recovery. Then, when he felt ready, he got off the Subs. He had to do two weeks in an inpatient program to kick the Subs, and said that he found the withdrawal to be at least as bad as a heroin withdrawal - the symptoms weren't as intense but they went on for a good 10 days. He tells me that he would never have been able to kick heroin without the Subs, as he needed those 10 months without cravings to get a strong foothold in recovery. After he detoxed from the Subs, he began to experience cravings again, but was in a much better place to combat them because he had developed a strong recovery program, had ditched his dealer and user friends, and had surrounded himself with a recovery community. He struggled with depression for a month or so, and then everything started to turn around for him. His outlook improved, and he has remained clean.
As usual, success comes down to whether the addict really wants recovery. If he's committed, then Subs can be a really helpful tool. Committed means throwing yourself into recovery, working a strong program, becoming part of a recovery community. You have to get all these pieces in place before jumping off the Subs, as those cravings will come flooding back and you need to be equipped to deal with them. Of course, if the addict is NOT serious about recovery, then Suboxone can facilitate the progression of the disease by providing him with a means to use without threat of withdrawal, and money to buy his DOC.
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There is no right way with either methadone or suboxone. Either can be just another drug one uses or abuses to help them justify the sickness in their thinking or a good tool to help themselves. It really depends on the addict and if they are ready or not. I find any assignments by those who watch aren’t valid. The biggest reason is because there are lessons for the addict to learn no matter how they use each drug. Doing it all the so called wrong way ( omg their way) in another’s eyes will be the only way they will succeed at getting themselves clean and into recovery. Allowing the addicts in our lives to live and run it all out how they think they need to as opposed to how we think they should be doing it is one awesome gift.
Understand that clean and sober has nothing to do with the drug. One can stop using and not use for months or years, that doesn’t mean they are in recovery… one can be on maintenance meds for years and that doesn’t mean they aren’t in recovery. This will always be about behavior, the behavior does change with recovery and it can be painstakingly slow. Using always looks and maybe more so sounds like using, recovery is much different and the difference is so easy to see.
Ahh the crystal ball…I think everyone at one time wanted one just to see and stop the endless what if’s and what will be and those maybe but maybe crazy thoughts that we do allow to run…we can change our thinking. For any chance of a future we need to take back our today.
Faithlove…live in today, work on you, don’t allow the fear to become and all to easy trap, because it is just that. Understand he isn’t your problem you are and address that for the very best chance at a most wonderful life.
Try to stay out of your own way, ok
Understand that clean and sober has nothing to do with the drug. One can stop using and not use for months or years, that doesn’t mean they are in recovery… one can be on maintenance meds for years and that doesn’t mean they aren’t in recovery. This will always be about behavior, the behavior does change with recovery and it can be painstakingly slow. Using always looks and maybe more so sounds like using, recovery is much different and the difference is so easy to see.
Ahh the crystal ball…I think everyone at one time wanted one just to see and stop the endless what if’s and what will be and those maybe but maybe crazy thoughts that we do allow to run…we can change our thinking. For any chance of a future we need to take back our today.
Faithlove…live in today, work on you, don’t allow the fear to become and all to easy trap, because it is just that. Understand he isn’t your problem you are and address that for the very best chance at a most wonderful life.
Try to stay out of your own way, ok
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Originally Posted by incitingsilence
Ahh the crystal ball…I think everyone at one time wanted one just to see and stop the endless what if’s and what will be and those maybe but maybe crazy thoughts that we do allow to run…we can change our thinking. For any chance of a future we need to take back our today.
Faithlove…live in today, work on you, don’t allow the fear to become and all to easy trap, because it is just that. Understand he isn’t your problem you are and address that for the very best chance at a most wonderful life.
Try to stay out of your own way, ok
Faithlove…live in today, work on you, don’t allow the fear to become and all to easy trap, because it is just that. Understand he isn’t your problem you are and address that for the very best chance at a most wonderful life.
Try to stay out of your own way, ok
I am afraid. Through my boundaries group, I've learned that I'm terrified of people abandoning me so I do whatever I think will work to keep them liking me and accepting me.
I'm trying to lean more on God so that I can get over this fear. In the meantime, I'm becoming much more concerned about my children anyway. AH is not abusive or anything, but a lot of times, he's just not nice to them. He feels like he's being the "strict parent" and I'm just too easy. I just think we're too different. He's more conservative and I'm more liberal. I like my children to speak their minds and to ask questions. That doesn't mean they'll always get their way, but I still want them to think for themselves. He likes for them to just do what they're told, immediately.
Anyway, I'm still working on leaving. Thank you all for helping me through this crazy time in my life.
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My AH was on the suboxone program for almost two years.. for him, it was just substituting one drug for another.. of course he didnt work a program during that time and he was the same drug addict as he was when he was abusing pills..
He ended up having to go into inpatient detox to get off of suboxone and that is only because I had filed for divorce and told him to get help or get out..
Today he's back on drugs.. I have no idea what all he is taking or graduated to and quite honestly I really dont care anymore..
Bottom line, suboxone works for some if they work a strong recovery program along with it but if they are like my AH it was just a subsititute for his pills. Addiction is progressive and I'm watching him spiral out of control with my very eyes.
Taking a pill to get off of a pill just makes no sense to me whatsoever but thats just my opinion.
Work on you, get go to meetings and start living your life for you and do not focus any of your energies on any part of his recovery.. it will drive you insane.. He will recover if he is truly ready and if he's not well there is nothing that you can do about it..
He ended up having to go into inpatient detox to get off of suboxone and that is only because I had filed for divorce and told him to get help or get out..
Today he's back on drugs.. I have no idea what all he is taking or graduated to and quite honestly I really dont care anymore..
Bottom line, suboxone works for some if they work a strong recovery program along with it but if they are like my AH it was just a subsititute for his pills. Addiction is progressive and I'm watching him spiral out of control with my very eyes.
Taking a pill to get off of a pill just makes no sense to me whatsoever but thats just my opinion.
Work on you, get go to meetings and start living your life for you and do not focus any of your energies on any part of his recovery.. it will drive you insane.. He will recover if he is truly ready and if he's not well there is nothing that you can do about it..
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Originally Posted by jerect
Bottom line, suboxone works for some if they work a strong recovery program along with it but if they are like my AH it was just a subsititute for his pills. Addiction is progressive and I'm watching him spiral out of control with my very eyes.
I don't think he is "working a recovery program." He goes to counseling and group but those are so minimal that I'm sure he just tells them what they want to hear. I gave his recovery to him and told him he needed to do it his way. I think he interprets this as doing nothing. Which is fine. Whatever. I know he's not working on himself. He is trading methadone for oxy.
Work on you, get go to meetings and start living your life for you and do not focus any of your energies on any part of his recovery.. it will drive you insane.. He will recover if he is truly ready and if he's not well there is nothing that you can do about it..
I don't think he is "working a recovery program." He goes to counseling and group but those are so minimal that I'm sure he just tells them what they want to hear. I gave his recovery to him and told him he needed to do it his way. I think he interprets this as doing nothing. Which is fine. Whatever. I know he's not working on himself. He is trading methadone for oxy.
Work on you, get go to meetings and start living your life for you and do not focus any of your energies on any part of his recovery.. it will drive you insane.. He will recover if he is truly ready and if he's not well there is nothing that you can do about it..
I've really learned SOOOOO MUCH over the past four months thanks to SR, reading about co-dependency and boundaries, and even from my one failed attempt to move out.
I'm absolutely ready to leave him now. If only there was an endless fund for spouses like us...Oh well. I'm not complaining. I have a job and I'll just have to save.
There is one more thing though. Now I feel guilty because I can't stand him. Then he acts like a jerk and I feel justified. It's usually when I catch a glimpse of him sleeping that the guilt just rushes over me. I feel so bad for him and so bad because I'm getting ready to crush his heart and I just don't care. I know I'm rambling and this probably doesn't make sense.
Thanks for listening.
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I don't think that you're rambling. I believe it's part of the process - it was for me anyway. The guilt creeps up on me sometimes too. Even now, after the divorce.. I've learned to step back, breath, come here to gain my strength. You didn't do this, you've given you're best and unfortunately his addiction is stronger. You are taking the steps you need to protect you and your children. You should feel proud of yourself and not guilty
Hange in there - I know it's hard.
Hange in there - I know it's hard.
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Originally Posted by supportforme
I don't think that you're rambling. I believe it's part of the process - it was for me anyway. The guilt creeps up on me sometimes too. Even now, after the divorce.. I've learned to step back, breath, come here to gain my strength. You didn't do this, you've given you're best and unfortunately his addiction is stronger. You are taking the steps you need to protect you and your children. You should feel proud of yourself and not guilty Hange in there - I know it's hard.
Hange in there - I know it's hard.I think I feel guilty because he's so pitiful. And he's not "using" as far as I know right now. Oh, what am I saying? I have no idea if he's "using" on top of his methadone and I just don't care anymore.
I met with a client today and had to review her Prevention Plan that Social Services had her agree to. Some of the factors on it smacked me in the face.
"Client will not allow children around known drug users."
"Client will not allow drugs in the home."
"Client will ensure the home is clutter free."
Etc.
I need to buck up myself!
Restoring myself to sanity
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Originally Posted by Faithlove
There is one more thing though. Now I feel guilty because I can't stand him. Then he acts like a jerk and I feel justified. It's usually when I catch a glimpse of him sleeping that the guilt just rushes over me. I feel so bad for him and so bad because I'm getting ready to crush his heart and I just don't care. I know I'm rambling and this probably doesn't make sense.
Thanks for listening.
I tried to leave my AH once and if you research my past posts you can read all about that drama.. I ended up staying out of both guilt and hope.. I wish I would have left now but I dont think i was angry enough to leave back then.. Now, I'm getting angry, angry at him, angry at myself because I know that i deserve a better life then this...
One Day At A Time FaithLove
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My xAH did finally get pulled over and arrested and I filed for Divorce. I put myself and my children in danger because I couldn't find the strength to leave. I thank God that the consequences of staying weren't as severe as they could have been. I know I did the right thing but I still feel guilty because I try to hold on to the person he once was. Take care of yourself; this forum and personal therapy saved me.
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