I just don't get it
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Southeast, USA
Posts: 69
I just don't get it
I cannot understand why those of you with a choice continue to stay involved with an addict. I have been dealing with my AS for three miserable years. He is my son and will always be my son and there is nothing I can do about it except encourage him when he is doing well and disengage when he is not. If you are married or have children I can understand it takes time, but if you are just dating someone please don't sign up for this! I look on here and see these mothers who have been posting since 2000 and that is a huge wake up call!!
My widow uncle in his 60's is dating a woman his age. She is a professional, and still working sales in a high demand field. She is a lovely woman and he is crazy about her. BUT, she has an AS in his 40's that has leached off her bank account and her good heart for 25+ years. She has no retirement and still lives from paycheck to paycheck. Her AS recently lost his job which caused him to lose his car and apartment. She let him move back in with her and bought him a $1200 car so he would have a way to find a job. He told her he found a job in the next state over and took off in his new car. The next day she suddenly had a sinking feeling in her gut and checked to find her jewelry and all her late husband's guns GONE.
Soon after my AS started down this road I would wake up at night with anxiety, jumping when the phone rang, etc. I remembered the last time I had these feelings was 30 years ago, in my early 20's, when I was dating an alcoholic. I didn't realize it at first because I had never been exposed to alcoholism. One day it hit me that this was what he was and what he was going to always be and I went to work and put in a transfer to move 1000 miles away from him. It came through in a couple days and I was gone. Yes, I got the "I love you, I will change, I am sorry, My life is nothing without you" phone calls for about six months but I never saw him again nor gave him my time (no cell phones or texts back then). I ran into his brother in an airport 10 years later and according to him he was the same, on a one way road to self destruction. And yes, I loved him. He was very handsome, charming and educated. He was from a wonderful family and I loved them, too. But I loved myself more.
I just don't get why someone with a choice would settle for this.
Whaty
My widow uncle in his 60's is dating a woman his age. She is a professional, and still working sales in a high demand field. She is a lovely woman and he is crazy about her. BUT, she has an AS in his 40's that has leached off her bank account and her good heart for 25+ years. She has no retirement and still lives from paycheck to paycheck. Her AS recently lost his job which caused him to lose his car and apartment. She let him move back in with her and bought him a $1200 car so he would have a way to find a job. He told her he found a job in the next state over and took off in his new car. The next day she suddenly had a sinking feeling in her gut and checked to find her jewelry and all her late husband's guns GONE.
Soon after my AS started down this road I would wake up at night with anxiety, jumping when the phone rang, etc. I remembered the last time I had these feelings was 30 years ago, in my early 20's, when I was dating an alcoholic. I didn't realize it at first because I had never been exposed to alcoholism. One day it hit me that this was what he was and what he was going to always be and I went to work and put in a transfer to move 1000 miles away from him. It came through in a couple days and I was gone. Yes, I got the "I love you, I will change, I am sorry, My life is nothing without you" phone calls for about six months but I never saw him again nor gave him my time (no cell phones or texts back then). I ran into his brother in an airport 10 years later and according to him he was the same, on a one way road to self destruction. And yes, I loved him. He was very handsome, charming and educated. He was from a wonderful family and I loved them, too. But I loved myself more.
I just don't get why someone with a choice would settle for this.
Whaty
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by whaty 
I cannot understand why those of you with a choice continue to stay involved with an addict. I have been dealing with my AS for three miserable years. He is my son and will always be my son and there is nothing I can do about it except encourage him when he is doing well and disengage when he is not. If you are married or have children I can understand it takes time, but if you are just dating someone please don't sign up for this!..I just don't get why someone with a choice would settle for this.
Well said. This should be a banner headline at the top of the forum.
But the answer as to "why" is codependency. Just the way the addict needs drugs, those of us who are codependent need the emptiness in ourselves to be filled by the addict - the chaos distracts us, the "helping" makes us feel that we are good people, the attempts to control them make us feel as if we are somehow in charge of our own lives...the solution is to step back, FEEL the discomfort of the emptiness, and then go about filling it ourselves- without regard to the addict. Much easier said than done.
Loving an addict is hard work - truly loving ourselves is harder.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
I don't either, low self esteem, neediness perhaps a product of parents who had addiction issues, and they wanna help.
Life is about choices, some do not get that, to them, it is just easier to complain about the situation rather than do something to change it.
Great post, thank you!
Life is about choices, some do not get that, to them, it is just easier to complain about the situation rather than do something to change it.
Great post, thank you!
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Great post! Unfortunately, I unknowingly married a wonderful, loving, successful man who became an addict. Addiction was something I knew very little about. I was still in deep denial when I joined SR and had to be "shaken" out of it. I just didn't understand what went wrong, why he had changed so much and why I was so different. Learning the truth was extremely painful. I struggled with believing it.
I had become as sick as him, suffered from terminal uniqueness and working on me is taking time. It is painful and it is a process. Letting go of the dream, of the man I married is taking hard work and time. I wish I could say I was stronger, healthier, had more self esteem and detached the moment I learned of his addiction but that was just not the truth. I have to become those things again to be the person I need to be.
Addiction is cunning and baffling but changing my codependent thinking has been a challenge for me. It too can be cunning and baffling.
I had become as sick as him, suffered from terminal uniqueness and working on me is taking time. It is painful and it is a process. Letting go of the dream, of the man I married is taking hard work and time. I wish I could say I was stronger, healthier, had more self esteem and detached the moment I learned of his addiction but that was just not the truth. I have to become those things again to be the person I need to be.
Addiction is cunning and baffling but changing my codependent thinking has been a challenge for me. It too can be cunning and baffling.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Of course you don't get it, you shouldn't ... it isn't YOURS.
What does it matter who stays or leaves, not like either will fix anything. It is who takes the time to work on them and stops using the actions of anyone around as the blame for how they feel and or distraction not to feel or do the work. There is the key to it all.
Some will never find recovery, and while it is sad it is because the sickness gives them in each moment some twisted sense of living. It may not look pretty and at times is heart wrenching but it isn’t mine on anyone else’s road to take.
No matter the choice, each we make for ourselves is a learning experience. Well if we are willing to learn. Are you willing to learn, open to learning because that should be your biggest concern.
I am so grateful for my path, in the insanity taught me so much when everyone else judged that I was doing something wrong when all I was doing was what I wanted to, what I thought I needed to. When it all tied itself together it makes so much sense and I can’t help but be more grateful for all the lessons I learned.
I learned many using, I learned many staying, and I know without a doubt no matter what I do today, or what choices I make for how I live today, they are mine.
What they are not ... they are not some reaction to what anyone else thinks, or a reaction with motive involved to somehow get someone to be as I need them, not as they truly are and I more than know I can change my mind at anytime…
What does it matter who stays or leaves, not like either will fix anything. It is who takes the time to work on them and stops using the actions of anyone around as the blame for how they feel and or distraction not to feel or do the work. There is the key to it all.
Some will never find recovery, and while it is sad it is because the sickness gives them in each moment some twisted sense of living. It may not look pretty and at times is heart wrenching but it isn’t mine on anyone else’s road to take.
No matter the choice, each we make for ourselves is a learning experience. Well if we are willing to learn. Are you willing to learn, open to learning because that should be your biggest concern.
I am so grateful for my path, in the insanity taught me so much when everyone else judged that I was doing something wrong when all I was doing was what I wanted to, what I thought I needed to. When it all tied itself together it makes so much sense and I can’t help but be more grateful for all the lessons I learned.
I learned many using, I learned many staying, and I know without a doubt no matter what I do today, or what choices I make for how I live today, they are mine.
What they are not ... they are not some reaction to what anyone else thinks, or a reaction with motive involved to somehow get someone to be as I need them, not as they truly are and I more than know I can change my mind at anytime…
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Whaty: Thanks for your post. Methinks some people are going to be a little agitated at your confusion about why they stay. That's okay. Some of us get it quicker than others. Your son is fortunate that you get it, and that you got it so quickly - your quick response is having a great influence on him - whether he says that to you or not. Read the responses from some of our posters here where their parents distanced themselves from their beloved addict - I find those to be an encouragement that I am doing the right thing.
Keep coming back!
Keep coming back!
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 924
I think that a big sign of people being in recovery is that they really learn to stay on their own side of the street and quit taking other people's inventory! HAHAHA...easier said than done.
When someone is attached to an addict they have to learn to detach. Each of us have our attachment for our own reasons that need to be learned...and understood and felt in a deep place in our heart and soul.
I feel deeply deeply in love with my ex. I thought he was going to be my husband...the companion of my life ahead. So...do you want to belittle or shame me for that attachment?
Now...I had to learn A LOT about my own life, my own history, my own attachment patterns, my own need for love, my own desperation..ETC ETC ETC.
Yes, I suppose you could just simplify...I had to learn about my choice.
He will always be someone I love. Even though he suffers from addiction and for that I have chosen not to continue forward in our relationship as it was...because it caused me deep pain...but it also caused me a great deal of growth and self discovery and healing.
I have an older brother who is estranged, but he will always be my brother.
You have a son...who will always be your son.
I have an ex who I will always love as a human being, and as a suffering addict.
It has been easier to let go of my brother than my ex.
Shouldn't it be easier for you to let go of your son than me my ex? LOL
Read an expert like Pia Mellody, who deals with the spiritual psychology of codependency (or if you prefer just name call it bad self esteem...) and you will find that the romantic attachment most triggers the original wounds which are often the systemic cause of addiction/codependency. It can be the romantic love attachment that has the capacity to trigger our biggest need for healing and growth.
So...who are you to judge and shame others for their "choices"?
Maybe our "choices" ultimately become our choice to heal...maybe we choose those people to love so that we have to learn what we need to learn to become whole.
Shame and judging is, in my experience, one of the absolute worst things you can do to an addict or codependent.
Especially since it usually acts to re-traumatize the wounds which need to be healed in all of these relationships which are dysfunctional...which usually are born out of the dysfunction of the "original attachment". Which comes from...guess where?
Yeah...most of us just don't have a choice when that original wound in attachment is inflicted. We just have to do the intense hard work of learning to heal from it, to learn to let go of what we thought was love...the most precious gift. And then we often suffer, ignorant and unsolicited, shame for it along the path.
Thank you.
When someone is attached to an addict they have to learn to detach. Each of us have our attachment for our own reasons that need to be learned...and understood and felt in a deep place in our heart and soul.
I feel deeply deeply in love with my ex. I thought he was going to be my husband...the companion of my life ahead. So...do you want to belittle or shame me for that attachment?
Now...I had to learn A LOT about my own life, my own history, my own attachment patterns, my own need for love, my own desperation..ETC ETC ETC.
Yes, I suppose you could just simplify...I had to learn about my choice.
He will always be someone I love. Even though he suffers from addiction and for that I have chosen not to continue forward in our relationship as it was...because it caused me deep pain...but it also caused me a great deal of growth and self discovery and healing.
I have an older brother who is estranged, but he will always be my brother.
You have a son...who will always be your son.
I have an ex who I will always love as a human being, and as a suffering addict.
It has been easier to let go of my brother than my ex.
Shouldn't it be easier for you to let go of your son than me my ex? LOL
Read an expert like Pia Mellody, who deals with the spiritual psychology of codependency (or if you prefer just name call it bad self esteem...) and you will find that the romantic attachment most triggers the original wounds which are often the systemic cause of addiction/codependency. It can be the romantic love attachment that has the capacity to trigger our biggest need for healing and growth.
So...who are you to judge and shame others for their "choices"?
Maybe our "choices" ultimately become our choice to heal...maybe we choose those people to love so that we have to learn what we need to learn to become whole.
Shame and judging is, in my experience, one of the absolute worst things you can do to an addict or codependent.
Especially since it usually acts to re-traumatize the wounds which need to be healed in all of these relationships which are dysfunctional...which usually are born out of the dysfunction of the "original attachment". Which comes from...guess where?
Yeah...most of us just don't have a choice when that original wound in attachment is inflicted. We just have to do the intense hard work of learning to heal from it, to learn to let go of what we thought was love...the most precious gift. And then we often suffer, ignorant and unsolicited, shame for it along the path.
Thank you.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
I do not feel shamed or blamed! I needed to ask myself the same question. I have even thought the same of others in a fairly new relationship. I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone.
But I do agree, my "situation" offered me a chance to change, to learn and to grow. Strengthening my faith, finding ME and my inner strength again has been hard but also very exciting! For that, I am very thankful.
But I do agree, my "situation" offered me a chance to change, to learn and to grow. Strengthening my faith, finding ME and my inner strength again has been hard but also very exciting! For that, I am very thankful.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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I actually used my "choice" to continue in the marriage and stay with him as a way to make myself feel better. I thought, "his family is stuck with him; they have to remain attached. I'm choosing to stay with him, so I must be tougher, or more good, etc. I have to fight to walk away.....so look how dedicated I am."
Really!? I agree that people who are dating addicts should RUN and RUN fast!
People that are married do have the choice to detach......it is hard though. I don't think they should be shamed or judged. Some people married these addcits without knowing the whole truth. They do love them. Some take their vows seriously. Some think it is abhorrent to leave a spouse in their sickness or moment of weakness. Our culture teaches us to give of ourselves. Although the media likes to bombard us with self-centerdness, it is still frowned upon. Nobody ever brags about their child who is completely selfish and lives life only to please themself. They do brag about their child who is unselfish and gives of themself in their time, money, etc. These spouses just need to learn that it is ok to love themselves more than the addict. That loving the addict is not ever going to make him better. That leaving the addict is not going to make the addict commit suicide or relapse. That is the addict's choice.
I think it is especially difficult to detach with love from an addicted child. My heart absolutely breaks for these parents. I just can not imagine watching my precious child self-destruct.
Really!? I agree that people who are dating addicts should RUN and RUN fast!
People that are married do have the choice to detach......it is hard though. I don't think they should be shamed or judged. Some people married these addcits without knowing the whole truth. They do love them. Some take their vows seriously. Some think it is abhorrent to leave a spouse in their sickness or moment of weakness. Our culture teaches us to give of ourselves. Although the media likes to bombard us with self-centerdness, it is still frowned upon. Nobody ever brags about their child who is completely selfish and lives life only to please themself. They do brag about their child who is unselfish and gives of themself in their time, money, etc. These spouses just need to learn that it is ok to love themselves more than the addict. That loving the addict is not ever going to make him better. That leaving the addict is not going to make the addict commit suicide or relapse. That is the addict's choice.
I think it is especially difficult to detach with love from an addicted child. My heart absolutely breaks for these parents. I just can not imagine watching my precious child self-destruct.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Southeast, USA
Posts: 69
I am not shaming, judging or blaming. Believe me, I went through the giving my AS another chance after chance, and was let down again and again. I know how it is to have hope for someone you love. And I also said that I understand if you are married to the A or have a child with him/her. I didn't mean to offend anyone for their choices and apologize for coming across that way. I just hate to see these young girls settling for someone that is going to keep sucking the life out of them. Life is short.
Whaty
Whaty
Getting there!!
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No apologies needed for me. I completely understand your question.
My son attracts such sweet, smart, and pretty girls. I can't help but pray they don't get hurt. It's hard to watch someone so young wanting to "fix" someone else...now that I recognize it. Sadly, there was a time when I hoped he would be with a strong girl to help straighten him out. ughhhh!!
My son attracts such sweet, smart, and pretty girls. I can't help but pray they don't get hurt. It's hard to watch someone so young wanting to "fix" someone else...now that I recognize it. Sadly, there was a time when I hoped he would be with a strong girl to help straighten him out. ughhhh!!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 499
We are each on our own individual path. I have no idea how I would respond if I suddenly found out my fiance was a drug addict. We have a very healthy relationship that we both work hard to protect and nurture. He doesn't use drugs - but then I'm sure that everyone that finds themselves in the situation also thought the exact same thing right up until they found out. Because of my experience so far I know what my boundaries are with regard to drug use, but if I've learned anything I've learned never to say never.
I will admit to being particularly triggered by one style of phrase in particular, so I work hard to be supportive but direct in my responses, and that's when someone says "He's a great father except for the drugs..." or "She's a fabulous mother if only she didn't shoot up..." etc. Because of my history I'm particularly sensitive to those scenarios. I'm working on it.
I will admit to being particularly triggered by one style of phrase in particular, so I work hard to be supportive but direct in my responses, and that's when someone says "He's a great father except for the drugs..." or "She's a fabulous mother if only she didn't shoot up..." etc. Because of my history I'm particularly sensitive to those scenarios. I'm working on it.
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I just don't get why someone with a choice would settle for this.
With boyfriend/girlfriend type stuff, that's easier to deal with because you can simply break up with the person and be done with it. But what about if you've been married to someone for 20 years and have 3 kids with that person? None of this is easy because, to one degree or another, we don't entirely operate on logic alone. We have thoughts, beliefs, and feelings in the mix, too.
ZoSo
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 528
Originally Posted by whaty
I just hate to see these young girls settling for someone that is going to keep sucking the life out of them. Life is short.
Whaty
Whaty
Really what i am finding is that none of this has to do with the length or involvement of the relationship, at the core the real question is "Why am I not worth the same love, care and good treatment I give others and why am I attracted to sick instead of healthy people?"
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I would imagine when people have never been exposed to addiction they just couldn't know what they are in for.
Probably at the beginning it also seems unfair to treat the addict with mistrust, and deny requests for help that would be legit if they didn't come from an addict.
Addicts are such liars too, I doubt a newbie is prepared for that.
Probably at the beginning it also seems unfair to treat the addict with mistrust, and deny requests for help that would be legit if they didn't come from an addict.
Addicts are such liars too, I doubt a newbie is prepared for that.
...not falling down them
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by farfaraway
I would imagine when people have never been exposed to addiction they just couldn't know what they are in for.
Probably at the beginning it also seems unfair to treat the addict with mistrust, and deny requests for help that would be legit if they didn't come from an addict.
Addicts are such liars too, I doubt a newbie is prepared for that.
Probably at the beginning it also seems unfair to treat the addict with mistrust, and deny requests for help that would be legit if they didn't come from an addict.
Addicts are such liars too, I doubt a newbie is prepared for that.
When, at the start of this journey with my AD, people told me "don't let her in", "don't let her live with you", "call the cops", I was just horrified at how cold and heartless they were.
Well my being horrified at those people was replaced by the real horror of having an addict lying, stealing, manipulating, having violent tantrums, and whole experience led to;
not letting her in, not letting her live here, calling the cops. Hard to believe it when the journey just began but that's exactly where it ends.
Kudos to all of you who finally had to draw the line in the sand, and prayers for those who haven't reached that point that you never will but if you do to have faith and know that you are not alone.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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I would have to agree with farfaraway, I didn't enter a realtionship with an active addict, I had no idea he even was one. It is very tough when you have never been exposed to this type of person/life style to know what the right things are to do. It is a great learning experience, but still I wish it on know one!
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Originally Posted by Sungrl
With boyfriend/girlfriend type stuff, that's easier to deal with because you can simply break up with the person and be done with it. ZoSo
not so true
[/QUOTE]Was for me.
Think about it. It's easier than dissolving a marriage, which is a legal contract. You can walk away, if you choose, and have nothing to do with the person again.
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