Hammer

That is all fair enough, but to do weed or help feed his family is his choice in the end. It sucks that these morons cannot grow the hell up and make the good choice, but there it is.

Just looking for ways for you to route around and let you leave him alone -- and meanwhile you in peace -- while he makes that decision.

I just looked it up to save you the effort . . . There is NO recognized Wife Bitching Based Therapy nor Wife Bitching Based Recovery Program. One would think that was the answer, huh?

Hang in there, you will figure this out.

FourTwentyOne

You rock!

FourTwentyOne

You know, I can't understand how that can be? How has no one realized that the solution to addiction is actually treating wife bitching??

I am going to bed grinning like an idiot

Thank you. Tell your kids Daddy deserves extra hugs tonight.

You also rock

FourTwentyOne

AH's family have teamed up.

I made a decision on the weekend. I decided not to expose my children to the emotional abuse any longer. I contacted my SIL who agreed that it is the only responsible course of action. I started making plans. SIL called MIL and FIL. MIL is one of AH's chief supporters (in a bad way). She doesn't feel he has a problem, and eggs him on. MIL has COPD and refuses to take any medication, believes she knows better than the docs and knows for fact that it is not her smoking that caused her non-existent condition anyways. She has nearly died twice, having to be hospitalized for weeks each time to get her oxygen levels back up. Like mother, like son.

FIL called AH over to "chat" on the weekend. Told him he is going to lose his family because of his habbit. Told him we were planning to leave. Told him a bunch of other things about his future. I know, I know, that apparently isn't the way to get through to an A, but. .. that is what FIL did.

MIL tried to say that AH doesn't have a problem, that I have the problem. I'm the one who is on his back all the time, asking him to pitch in and help with the kids. That's not the man's job you know. He works hard all day, he has to do all the driving, and that is a HUGE extra responsibility. Um, do I not have a full time job? Do i not do most of the housework? Do I not do all the laundry, 98% of the food preparation, 90% of taking care of the kids? And DRIVING is a HUGE responsibility??? GRRR

AH came home and told me FIL was planning to come over and read me the riot act, that FIL was going to call my parents and tell them I used to smoke weed, and all sorts of other (unspecified) things.

FIL came over last night, without MIL, while AH was out (payday don't you know). I had just put the kids in bed, and they were not asleep yet. I was frustrated because I figured he was showing up to do as promissed, and I figured it'd keep the kids up late on a school night.

He did no such thing. He told me the details of the conversation he had with AH, told me his plans to try and get AH to see what he is really doing, and what he will do if AH doesn't get help for himself. FIL told me he is so proud of me for giving up weed when I found out I was pregnant the first time, and not going back. He said he understands I am exhausted, and frustrated . . he said he has watched AH go downhill for 20 years, and now he will not rest until AH gets help, or hits rock bottom.

Isn't it nice to know that you have supporters?

I went to my second, and last, counselling appointment with the family support lady. I will look for another avenue. All she keeps telling me is canned material about how I am going to end up in the hospital over stress, without really knowing anything about me. I found an AA family meeting not too far from work, at noon. The only thing is when I asked to make sure that it was for family of addicts, they wrote back and said it is for people whose lives are affected by someone else's drinking. So now I am wondering if maybe it's specifically for drinking in this area, and not for any addiction like in some other places. Not sure what to do there.

In the meantime, AH has calmed down, and for two nights he has actually helped with the kids, not yelled at anyone, had meaningful conversations about his behaviour, even done dishes. Yesterday he even heard the alarm clock, actually turned it off without me having to put it on top of his head first, and got out of bed without me having to tell him once. OMG. Just more reminder how things COULD be if he would only get help.

Today I am going to try and find out about the CRAFT program in my area.

YearForMe

I've read and studied up on the CRAFT approach and just want to warn you...it's tricky.
I decided that it was not best for ME to attempt it with my husband.
In my situation, it would have fed into the codie trait of trying to fix.....and that's not good for me.

My husband is a grown man. He has been on this planet for 6 years longer than I have...he knows what he needs to do.
I have expressed my concerns and dislike for his use of pills and I have stated my boundries succinctly. He knows where I stand.

My husband wanted to isolate and use...and since he is addicted to prescription pain pills...that is pretty much all the time.

You have children...and in a sense...you are probably already using some of the techniques of CRAFT for your childrens behavior (ie: ignore the bad and reward the good).

FourTwentyOne

The Counseller I spoke to said that addiction is not logical, and that there is no point in stating your views, unless you also enjoy sharing your views with your potted plants, or bathtub. You say he knows, but did he really hear you, or did he have his addiction ear defenders on?

She also said that my AH coming home and telling me his father had spoken to him about his addiction, and he realises that our situation is not good and he is going to work on it, without going to get treatment, is like him coming home and saying he has spoken to the doctor, he understands he has cancer, he realizes that having cancer is affecting the family, so he has chosen to work on it, and he isn't going to have cancer anymore, without actualy going to any sort of treatment. I'm not sure how to feel about that statement.

YearForMe

I had to learn that it's not my problem or my issue to make sure my husband heard or understood.

I stated it....and my actions are backing it up.

Does he act like he heard it?.....Nope
Is it my problem if he chose not to hear it? Nope

If you state a boundry to a plant...and then don't back it up with action....does the plant care? Nope

If you state a boundry to an AH and then don't back it up with action....does the AH care? Yes....because they don't see words and actions in sync and that is what they take advantage of.

I see your AH as wanting you to be quiet...do all the work... let him isolate an enjoy his buzz.
Mine did the same....

FourTwentyOne

If you aren't supposed to talk to them about their habbit, aren't supposed to care what they do. . let their actions, thoughts and feelings belong to them and have no effect on you at all . . . why have them in yor life?

How can you just detach, but not move on? I'm not getting this. I should let him go out every night, get high with his friends, not contribute to the family, and just go on with my life as if he does not have an addiction, but let him live with us and get a free ride?

What actions do you take to back up your words? To me, if I say it is not okay to go out every night and get high, to yell and swear at your kids and put them in the middle of an emotional battle field, to choose getting high over anything for your family. ... and then I just ignore him and let him do it all and go on with my life, then I'm not proving anything, I'm just barking alone in the dark. No? If I am going to say those things, and he continues to do those things, I have to take the kids out of the situation, don't I?

I am told I can only control me, my thoughts, my words, my actions. If he won't stop acting the way he does, and I say it's not okay to act like that in front of the kids, then doesn't it follow that I have to take the kids away from the behaviour?

Or if I leave him to do what he will, and never ask him to contribute, will he just go off and be high and happy out of the house, and not yell and behave badly in front of the kids, and so then I just have another body to clean up after, but maybe things will get better. ...

I have often thought it would be easier if he hit me or the kids, just once. That, to me, is a clear line tha cannot be crossed. It is not okay to injur me or the kids. No one would blame me for walking out on him then, right? Maybe I'd stil feel liek, "well, it was only once"?

YearForMe

You have to decide what your boundry is and then draw a line in the sand, pour concrete in it, let it harden and NO MATTER WHAT....be willing to enact it if the boundry is crossed.

Often, the loved ones just don't want to, don't have the energy to, turn the house upside down.

If nothing changes...then nothing changes. You can't sit around waiting for them to change. Their disease is progressive...you can't stop the progression. You can only control what you are willing to put up with.

Maybe you should consider consulting an attorney.

Get your resources lined up ahead of time.

Boundries are statements that start with "I"

"I" will not live with a man who rages at me or the kids.
"I" will not live with a pot head

It's not a threat....it's a declaration that you make to yourself.

You don't need to prove anything to him.

If all of your decisions were about what is best for your children, then yourself...and not worry about what is best for him (because you have no control over him) then your answers will come to you.

OneNightAWeek

This is a helpful thread, thanks for starting it. I understand what your saying about detachment, and I have trouble with this too. The addiction doctor I have been working with has never told me to detach, he has never said I was codependent. He has asked me what I wanted and said examine my life. He advised me how to talk to my husband because I was doing a lot wrong and it was falling on deaf ears. I do sort of understand the comment you were told about comparing it to cancer. My doctor said addiction has its own characteristics beyond making a person high, and like even though my husband is working and functioning he cant think straight about his drug use. And Ive posted a few times about his denial. He says he wants to stop, and skips to the future talking about life, but has not stopped. Its like hello you missed a lot there. Its really weird to explain when your standing there and witnessing it happen, and how do you respond. But I think what you were told is a good point and I have thought about it a lot. If my husband had cancer and that affects the family too, would I detach and say its all on you? If he was in denial and didn’t see he needed to undergo radiation or chemo or surgery, would I say fine its your choice, even if he was making the choice with a foggy brain? not fully able to realize the consequences?

I know that I would not practice detachment, and leave it all on him. I would do whatever it took to try to get him to realize he needed help before it was too late. So far Im not seeing why addiction should be treated different.

I have tried three alanon meetings so far, don’t think its working for me. It seems to be about detachment and codependency, and its repeated we cant change people which I understand. We cant force other people to change, but seems to me we can influence others, show them alternatives, get their minds to thinking, and possibly make certain choices look better. Thats even the whole point behind message boards like this, groups like aa and alanon with sponsors and all that. Its all about thinking you can show people another way and then they get to decide for themselves. My girlfriend who has been going with me laughs and says to ignore what I dont agree with, but I find so many contradictions, or spilt hairs, it drives me crazy.

interrupted

Only if you don't want them to be negatively impacted by his addiction. That's something that you have to decide for yourself and your minor children. This isn't easy; nobody is telling you that addiction is easy. Every single person here knows that it is most certainly NOT easy. Every single person here has been hurt tremendously by addiction.

FourTwentyOne

Of course I don't want them negatively impacted. I want everything to just get better of course.

Hammer

Sounds like it may be time to start a Gratitude List?

FIL may go to the top of the list? Sounds like he did wonderful for you.

Turned out (just since Mrs. Hammer is back from rehab) my FIL is pretty cool, too. Had NO Idea. I had to apologize for treating him crappy over the years due to Mrs. Hammer's lies and manipulations. Her nasty little games, but I had to own my part of it. He very graciously accepted my apology, and we have had some nice visits since.

He and his wife (step mom to Mrs. Hammer) did a program sort of like Alanon / Celebrate Recovery, etc. through their church a year or two ago to deal with Mrs. Hammer's behavior. Did them a lot of good, too.

So some Gratitude?

------------------

Dear God,

Thank You for the Good FIL's that 421 and I have.

Amen.

Sunshine2

You cannot live with an addict without having the consequences of living with an addict. It is as simple as that.

"How can you just detach, but not move on? I'm not getting this. I should let him go out every night, get high with his friends, not contribute to the family, and just go on with my life as if he does not have an addiction, but let him live with us and get a free ride?"

Why can you not move on? Why does he have to live with you? Detachment is about you getting off the emotional roller coaster ride, not letting your whole life and well being be affected by the addict. Moving on is about what behaviour you are prepared to live with.

OneNightAWeek, of course one initially try and influence the addict and sometimes one might even be successful. Detachment is when you realise that no matter what you do, it has no effect on the addict whatsoever. Detachment is about self-preservation too.

chickaree777

421- I tried to do this. I ignored his addiction for a few years. I stopped searching for signs of it. I tried to look only at his good qualities. I stopped talking to his family about our problems. I focused only on what I had to do - parent the kids, hold the whole household together, feed everyone, generate income, etc. I have to say, in the beginning it was a great relief. I was able to relax a bit, only worrying about MY immediate issues. I was able to get our little boy off to Kindergarten, 1st grade, 2nd grade... and was able to give some guidance to my teenage stepchildren.

BUT--- It began to fall apart. And it didn't fall apart because of me- I was the glue holding it all together. It fell apart because AH's problems got worse. He was gone for longer and longer periods of time. His angry outbursts got worse. His teenage son was furious with him and it came to blows between them. His teenage daughter was cutting herself. And our little boy was having emotional problems at school.

So, did my ignoring help? Temporarily yes. But children living with an addict are the innocent victims of the addicts confusing behavior. Once I saw the turmoil in my step kids I knew I did not want my child to experience that. I had to get him out. It was the hardest thing I ever did. I had even promised my husband that I would support him and only look at his good qualities (since his entire family had begun badmouthing him). He took my leaving as a total insult. Still does.

Anyway, I think the detachment does help YOU, but maybe not in the long run unless your AH gets help!

PS- my step kids are ok. The oldest is in college and the younger is living with her aunt and is doing well.

Faithlove

421,
Your AH sounds just like mine!!!

Talk to your HP. This is my favorite verse from my HP,

"For I know the plans I have for you," says The Lord. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope."

I left my AH after almost six years of marriage with two little ones and one teen in tow. I just cannot put into words how much better our lives are! I'm broke but I don't care. Not having to deal with his outbursts, LIES, and manipulations on a daily basis are worth it!!!

I had to reach out for help though. I started here at SR. Then I reached out to friends, family, church members, my kids' daycare, my co-workers and bosses. I also sought counseling for myself. I do highly recommend Al-Anon but I don't attend as often as I should.

You, nor your children, were created to live a life of misery.

FourTwentyOne

It is taking time to get my head around this problem. I am beginning to understand what everyone is talking about, I think? I mean, it's like I know that the man I married is a very good man. I know that he is still in there somewhere, but he's hiding I don't get to see him very often.

And, I know that things could be different. And that's what frustrates me. And I know that I think I want to the one to make things different. And I know that I can't. This is what I am beginning to understand. I don't get to make that choice.

FourTwentyOne

The kids and I went for a visit with my parents on the weekend.

The kids were happy, smiling. . they played games, made jokes, . .did I mention they were smiling?

Why can't I just say I am leaving and go??? There might be time to save my children. ...

Why do I feel I owe him a chance? I owe my kids all the love and protection I can offer them. .....

help help help. ...

God, please hear my prayers.

Thank you, my credit card turned up in a pair of AH's dirty pants and I did not have to start a fight over it.

Thank you, AH asked me to find someone to take the kids while I go away next month for the weekend, I did not need to start a fight over it because I was going to find somewhere for them to stay anyways. ..

Thank you for my two best friends, FIL, BIL and SIL who are supporting me, and offering any help they can think of.

Send me strength, send me clarity of thought and strength in my convictions.

I cannot make this decision alone, I give it up to you, God - please take this burden away from me.

Please send your love and guidance to AH, let him know you are there.

Dearly departed BIL, please if you are there, return the kick in the ass you got from AH when you died, before he joins you. ..

Thank you God for my parents who suffer with me, please help them heal.

Thank you for my three wonderful healthy children, they are my whole world, keep them safe and help me teach them to know you.

FourTwentyOne

AH couldn't get out of bed this morning. I decided I am no longer responsible to get him to work on time. I will only wake him up in time for the kids to get to daycare, and me to get to work on time, if he isn't up by then.

Naturally, he called in sick, instead of going in late. I was an hour late, so that didn'T work out so well either.

While he was sleeping I searched his stuff. I know, I'm not supposed to. I feel like if I can catch him in taking something more than weed, I would be able to tell him that he needs to get help or the kids and I walk. I feel like it needs to be more significant than weed to justify me picking up and leaving on the spot. Dumb?

I found a pipe I was worried about, and I took it. He misplaces things all the time. He will think he lost it. I thought it had no place to put stuff in, no "bowl" but it turns out it is a straight pipe, and it still has a screw off end. I've been wondering if he is using opiates, with some of the things that go on.

This morning again he was really mellow. Didn't lose his cool with the kids, even took time to do little extra things on the way out the door - maybe because he wasn't late for work since he decided not to go. ... I'm not sure. Maybe because he is taking something, or no longer taking something. ...

My entire life for two weeks, has been completely about his addiction, how it is affecting me and the kids and what in the hell I am going to do. I really have to start focussing on work, but until I have this resolved - however that might be - I just can't really focus.

I'm sort of looking forward to my trip next month, but even that isn't taking a starring role in my thoughts lately. DS's birthday is in a few weeks, before my trip, and I haven't done anything about it. I usually do up a big party for the kids, plan it to death LOL have everything coordinated, invitations, plates, decorations, theme games. I can't get into it.

I feel numb towards AH. Last week, after FIL talked to him, and he seemed to be on the right track, and I had hope that he would take the first step towards recovery, I felt all the love and everything we had in the early days. It's all gone again. He hasn't been home one night since Saturday.

Last night, all 3 kids were screaming their heads off, I was trying to book my flights on the phone, the kids wouldn't be quiet, they wouldn't do what was asked, they kept leaving the table, crying about not being allowed to watch TV, DS wouldn't do his homework, the phone kept ringing. .. I closed the door on the kids' rooms so the yelling was muffled - after I had them in bed. I went in my room and closed the door, and balled my eyes out.

I got up and forced myself to do the dishes, make the lunches and then went to bed. My house is a disaster again, I am exhausted and drained.

I keep imagining someone will swoop into my life, sent by HP, to take this all away.

FourTwentyOne

Good night with the kids.

AH spent the evening alone on the front step before going to bed on his face.

He lost his cool with the kids, said he needs to see the doc and up his meds because the kids **** him off and I won't let him hit them.

All I could think was he needs fewer drugs, not more.