Feel like I'm at Square One today

Old 08-25-2012, 07:54 AM
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Feel like I'm at Square One today

My 22 yr old son is like a child...like the 15 yr old he was when he started using. He's been trapped there with his never-treated depression and anxiety. ("If only he could get that depression treated properly..." blah blah blah)

He's been couch-surfing, homeless, in-and-out of sober houses, kicked out of 2 rehabs since June, wrecked (and lost) his car, and now is in jail on a felony possession charge awaiting indictment. He can't make bail because he has no money and nobody is willing to do it for him. Magistrate won't release him on 'personal responsibility' because he has no ties in the community (homeless). In other words, he's stuck in jail for months and months even though he's not yet been convicted of any crime...his attorney tells him it could take up to a year to get all this resolved....6-8 months at least. He's going to fight this charge because he has a good chance of getting it dismissed -- doesn't want the felony on his record. Can't blame him there.

His depression and anxiety are skyrocketing to all time highs (or lows) which is the natural result of his heroin withdrawal. It will take months to resolve itself, treated or not. He states that he spends hours and hours a day thinking about suicide and doesn't know how to quiet his mind. He says he feels like he is going insane -- which I can certainly believe when I consider his history.

He is not begging. He's not bargaining. He just believes that jail will kill him one way or the other....just a statement of fact. He tries to see the 'benefit' in staying there, he is trying to cope and to adjust. He understands fully why he is there and doesn't place blame anywhere but with himself. He never has.

He says that IF he could find a way to make bail, he would go to the Salvation Army -- he wants to get clean (of course). He also has the option of going back to the rehab he got kicked out of in July -- he was there on 'scholarship' and they left the door open for him. He is saying all the right stuff.

I am absolutely chomping at the bit to post his bail and get him into rehab. Not only that, but I am chomping at the bit to post his bail, and get him into a long-term rehab that would cost us $50,000. I feel like long-term treatment is the only thing that will get him over that hump of PAWS depression; this facility also treats co-occurring mental illness. It has a good reputation.

In other words, I am chomping at the bit to SWOOP in and FIX EVERYTHING. My mother's heart is desperate to save him -- to try just this ONE LAST TIME. OMG, how many times have I said that???

****!!! I am trapped (in my own mind). I just can't abandon him. I've tried and I can't. The only progress I see in my thinking today is that I am not frantically dialing numbers to make this all happen. I am choosing to not do anything TODAY and I'm choosing to get honest here with my SR family.

Today I am just stuck in a vortex of conflict between my head and my heart.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:35 AM
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Awwww tjp.....I soooooo understand how you're feeling. Take it easy.....one day at a time. Lean on us....we'll support you through the rough patches.

much love and gentle hugs
ke
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:41 AM
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I am so sorry for your pain. I feel the heartbreak as one mom to another. I applaud your strength and know it's hard to walk the tightrope.

If bail is posted and he would be released, is it likely he would agree to long-term rehab or, instead, would being released only present an opportunity for him to run back to what he was doing before incarceration?

Are there opportunities for help while in jail? Mental health, etc.? I imagine the prison staff would take intention to commit suicide seriously and take necessary steps to help.

I am praying for you and your son.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:50 AM
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Yes, he would definitely agree to long-term rehab. What happens once he gets there is another matter. That's a crap-shoot.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:06 AM
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I have no experience of loved ones in jail nor an addicted child.

But my son did have severe major depressive illness in his 20's which absolutely required serious medicine combined with therapy. Without the medicine--a combination of antidepressants prescribed by a very experienced psychiatrist who also counseled him once a week-- I am not sure he would have survived the mental anguish. Depression is a medical condition, it is an organic disease of the brain, and in my opinion, when it is debilitating should never be left just to "level out." It destroys brain tissue and damages bodily organs and lasts for years.

If the jail offers medical treatment, as I assume it does, I would intervene enough to get your son treated for medical depression. In his state of mind, he will not be able to advocate for that. And he is very young.

Depression can take two to three years to completely resolve. If he is put on medication, it may be a few or several months of adjusting the medicines and dosages. And in fact he may require antidepressants for many years. Anti-depressants also relieve the accompanying anxiety depression creates.

I personally would have little hope your son would get well in jail unless he is treated for both addiction and depression. If you bail him out today, there is little chance he will stay in rehab or clean long enough to allow any anti-depressants to take hold and level out the skewed brain chemistry.

If he is in jail for up to a year, however, and receiving medical treatment by a qualified physician, maybe it would give him a chance to gain some ground mentally and be stable enough to do recovery work.

I could not cure my son's major depression, but I could and did spend thousands of dollars on medical treatment that did make him well. Major Depression cripples the sufferer, and family intervention is necessary. I know my experience is not a parallel to yours, as yours is complicated by your son's addictive disease. But I just needed to say that if your son indeed is suffering with major depression, he should receive treatment for that.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:18 AM
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I am reasonably mature and my congnition is appropriate to my age. Yet, I cannot imagine how depressed/anxious I would be if I found myself couch- surfing, in and out of sober houses, kicked out of 2 rehabs, wrecked my car and in jail on a felony charge, let alone withdrawing from a powerful substance. I reckon I might be quite capable of saying anything to anyone willing to listen. And no doubt about it, I would mean what I said in the moment.

What are your consequences if he skips bail?
Does this rehab have a refund policy if he leaves or is kicked out?
Can you do this and let go of all expectations?

If you need one last time, so be it. Take your time with this decision. He's not going anywhere, right now.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tjp613 View Post
In other words, I am chomping at the bit to SWOOP in and FIX EVERYTHING. My mother's heart is desperate to save him -- to try just this ONE LAST TIME. OMG, how many times have I said that???
This hits home with me, and I think of this last effort with AD when I let her move in for a second chance.

Oh yes, she did make some changes. In the end she had jumped through all the hoops necessary for probation. She did the whole signing up for Vocational Rehabilitation, who in turn set her up with Prairie Independent Resource Living Center, a tremendous source of support in many areas. (They have helped me tremendously in the past).

Those seven months showed me just how sick she remains. She was and still is, I have no doubt, selling her prescription xanax for extra money. She gets her hands on lortabs as often as possible, and knows exactly when she can take them and still have a clean UA when she sees her PO.

I wanted to believe so badly that she was going to make some progress in her life. Early on she was grateful that I took her in, and her actions showed it. That didn't last long. When her move-out date at 90 days was approaching, once again she ramped up the "help" around the house, anything she could do to show me she was "grateful", when in fact it was pure manipulation.I gave her an extension on the move-out date, and boy was that a mistake.

I am ashamed to think of the thousands of dollars I spent supporting both of us for seven months. She never contributed a dime to bills.

Once again I learned a lesson, albeit a painful one. I can "help" no more. I'm done.

This too shall pass, I promise. I completely understand where you are at.

I'm back to reminding myself that God is either everything or he is nothing. I will no longer interfere with his plans for AD.

Sending you lots of hugs of support from another mother of an addict.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:24 AM
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I don't know how to help someone who will not help themself.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:55 AM
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TJP, I so understand how you feel. I believe you can look deep within your heart for the answer. Your son does have a diagnosed medical condition. Can you get him committed for some period of time? Will he allow that?
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:47 AM
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tjp, I can share what happened in my state when my son went through the same thing

I am not sure about the youthful offender law in your state but in Alabama if a person is 21 or younger they can plead youthful offender if they never have before and once off probation (usually comes with a drug charge here) then the record is sealed.

The time he spends there he would likely get time served here they do have nurses and a doctor and if they know they are suicidal they put them in the medical dorm for watch. My son was already suppose to be taking medicine for him illness so they did give most of that to him.

Have you considered if he is bailed out they may not let him leave out of town for a rehab? this usually depends on the state. Have you considered that even after rehab if he was allowed to go that he would still likely have to come back and spend time in jail then? In my state if one is bailed out court happens a lot faster than if not bailed out it could be possible court would come up while he was in rehab as well.

If you really want the details of how they handle suicidal thoughts in my state pm me...
I do HATE the way they do that here.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:21 AM
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TJP, I only bailed my son once after many sincere, tearful promises from him to follow rules, go to meetings, live with a curfew and work hard on his recovery. He hadn't been out one hour before he was on the hunt for drugs again. It broke my heart.

I'm not saying your son would do that, but I am saying that is often the case, even when they really mean the promises when they make them.

I don't know if his jail offers medical treatment, but if it does this is something he could look into.

It's your life, TJP, and if doing something helps you, then do it...knowing the risks and with no expectations. There is no way any one of us can judge another here on our choices, we just do the best we can and when we know better we do better.

Sending big hugs because no mama should have to watch her child self-destruct.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:50 AM
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[QUOTE=EnglishGarden;3548226 "I could not cure my son's major depression, but I could and did spend thousands of dollars on medical treatment that did make him well. Major Depression cripples the sufferer, and family intervention is necessary. I know my experience is not a parallel to yours, as yours is complicated by your son's addictive disease. But I just needed to say that if your son indeed is suffering with major depression, he should receive treatment for that."[/QUOTE]

I, too, will say that my experience is not a parallel to tjp's but would like to share that during 8 months of treatment (inpatient dual diagnosis facility with discharge to outpatient partial program, along with weekly meetings with probation officer and parents [he was a minor at that time]), seeking mental health diagnosis and treatment was put on the back burner; we were told first comes substance abuse treatment then once free and clear to seek mental health treatment. If the situation became acute, I am sure they would have acted accordingly.

Prior to that 8-month stay, he had had mental health treatment and had been 302'd one time for suicidal ideation; though, mental health diagnosis was unclear (he was using then, also).
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:16 PM
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As outtolunch said, he's not going anywhere, right now and that made me wonder actually how long do you have to decide whether you can post bail? When my son was in jail, I was pretty much hands off, someone else bailed him out, and I'm not familiar with the process.

I'm just saying that I hope you do have time to think this through and make a decision about what you feel is best.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:40 PM
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Dear Friends,
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond and give your perspective. It's so helpful.

I think these will be my next steps:
1) Talk to his lawyer and ask about the possibility of his getting halfway adequate medical care. AS has already requested an appt. with the doctor to request antidepressants and hopefully to discuss his suicidal ideation. (He was hospitalized for that once before and hasn't done it since -- didn't like that place too much!) It'll be a few days before he gets to see the dr.
2) I'll wait 'til his 1st court appearance (Oct 10*) before even considering bailing him out. maybe by that time he will have stabilized a bit. I think right now he is so desperate for relief from this depression that he would immediately seek out heroin if he had 1/2 a chance.

So I will do what I can to see that he gets proper medical treatment while in jail while he 'dries out' a bit more. This will also give me the chance to ask all those technical/legal questions about the court's view of his going to rehab before the case is finally heard.

* He has been told that his appearance on Oct 10 will just be his indictment and he will have to go back again and again before his case is ever fully resolved and he would be set free (without bail).
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:15 PM
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tjp I think it is great you are taking a step back and not just going to your son's rescue.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:22 PM
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(((tjp))) - The last time I was locked up (probation violation) my dad could NOT get me out of it, though he tried.

I spent 5-1/2 months in a diversion center where I HAD to get a job (I did) AND pay rent and had to address all the staff as "yes, SIR, Mr. xxx, yes sir!) It was HORRIBLE. I was in one of the two rooms that had 6 beds, had people coming in at all times of the night and I'm a light sleeper. Even when I worked late and had a "sleep pass" (could ignore the 5 a.m. count) I was awake, telling my roomies "GET UP!!!" Lights on, count down and I just did not sleep there.

When I'd been there enough for home passes, dad would pick me up, I'd come home, eat and go to sleep. The guy who was in charge of security was "sarge xxx". He told us.."I don't WANT you to like it here, what I WANT is for you to not every come back here again".

Though I did relapse for a couple of weeks, all that I'd read here (still lurking) and Sarge's voice kept playing through my mind.

Though I am now on an anti-d, almost 5-1/2 years into recovery, I have to say. That experience taught me a LOT and they did treat those who had mental and physical issues. I walked a mile to the bus station, took 2 busses and a train to get to work (2-1/2 hours).

I was hospitalized, at one time, for an MRSA infection. Notified the CO on duty. I didn't call my counselor until 2 days later. She said "do you know you were supposed to be calling me every 30 minutes?" I told her "do you know I've been on morphine and didn't give a shytt? Call the hospital, they will tell you I'm here".

Being there was where I needed to be, as much as I hated it. Even though I relapsed almost a year later, the thoughts of ending up back there helped lead me to recovery.

I guess what I am saying is I needed every single lock-up to realize the life I'd been leading just wasn't worth it. I pray your son comes to the same realization. AND I'm very grateful that no one bailed me out and I had to go through what I did. It took a while to get to that point (I threatened to kill myself before I even GOT to the diversion center). It was BS, I had no intent on carrying my threats out. It was manipulation, and now I can see that.

Mega hugs and prayers,

Amy
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:35 PM
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I am trying to think of something MORE heartbreaking
than a mother being powerless in the face of a mortal
threat to her childs life.

I thought about it for quite awhile.
Nothing came to mind......

Hugs and best wishes......
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:48 PM
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tjp this is a sensitive subject so im refraining myself from giving any input. Just want you to know that im thinking of you and sending you love.
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:00 PM
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((TJP)))) I think you have mad some wise, well-thought out choices for now...giving it just a little more time, not slamming the door, but not jumping in without much thought and a plan.

If he could get youthful offender status, that would be wonderful. Talk with the atty. about that. As far as medical treatment in jail, in my experience, it is almost non-existent. Yes, there is a nurse and inmates may get a bandaid, but there is little money for medical needs in any jail I've had experience with. You might talk to others in your area about it.

I have felt that wretched agnony of a son in jail talking suicide. Though most don't, as mamas, it's hard to put the thought our of our minds. Thinking about the what ifs is dreadful. My son is not in jail currently, but is threatening suicide. I don't think he will, but what if I'm wrong? If I'm wrong or right, there's still nothing I can do unless I want to walk the dark road with him for illegal substances. I won't. He is withdrawing now, but not by choice. Tough to see and know about.

Thank you for all of your past posts which have helped me so much. I know you are going to get through this no matter what you decide. And we will be here for you no matter what you decide. I understand and care.
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:07 PM
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I will add this as my experience, though it has nothing to do with mental health. When I was in jail for a month, my ruptured disc in my back flared up. They gave me steroids and Ibuprofen. Steroids make me EVIL! I told the nurse "look, steroids make me evil, I'm locked up in a room with 32 other whiney women and if you don't give me SOMETHING it's not going to be pretty!" She did give me something (not a controlled substance) to calm me down and help me sleep.

I know, not every jail is the same, but I have to admit...the one I was in did take my concerns seriously.

Still praying that things work out.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy
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