Elphie

You've all been through this, have seen what works and what doesn't, you would know..........

What is considered "real" treatment? I know that it is somewhat subjective and depends on the addict and their readiness to really recover, but, what worked for you or your addict??

what do you guys think is sufficient treatment (for what i consider to be a pretty severe percoset addiction)?

AD was doing at least 5-10 perc 30's a day, had used cocaine and as of last two drug tests had percs, thc, opana and cocaine in her system. She had been dealing to support her habit, i figure this has been going on for at least a year or more. This is what i know about, I'm sure there is much more I don't know.

Is outpatient treatment enough? How long?
Is rehab/residential treatment (longer term) the best and most effective treatment?

outtolunch

Inpatient Rehab/treatment and/or outplacement treatment are not magic bullets. Best case a highly motivated addict can learn some recovery tools. It's up to them to apply and use those tools, or not. Sadly, most do not and relapse. The cycle of addiction persists.

Having read thousands of posts on these forums, I was struck by how so many with serious recovery time under their belts never, not once, were in rehab or outpatient treatment programs. Their addictions became life or death for them. They chose life and most found their way with the help of a12 step group.

There are other non 12 step based recovery roads, too. SMART and Rational Recovery come to mind.

Mom to mom, here, there is something a tad off when we moms know more about our adult children's drug of choice and recovery alternatives, than our adult children do. It's indicitive of being too emeshed with our adult children and situations way beyond our control. My daughter's addiction defined and controlled me as much as it did my daughter and did so until I accepted I was powerless over her and her choices. She was living her life as she saw fit to do, regardless of what this mama knew best.

BeavsDad

My son had a serious opiate problem. (oxy, perc, smoking heroin)

We paid for an Intensive Outpatient Program for him a few years back.
He learned about active recovery, AA, NA, 12-steps etc while he was there.

He also made several good sober contacts during that time.

He's relapsed a few times since then and each time, when he was ready, he knew who to call and where to go to get back on the wagon.

The last time, he decided to add a 4 month stay at a Sober Living Environment to his program and has been clean since Jun '11.

If it happens again, he'll know exactly what to do when he is ready.

One day at a time.

amaslow

You can count on the fact that she has probably been doing about twice the amount of drugs that she has admitted to... Treatment if great IF they are ready enough( I know some people say they have to really want it, but the truth is that most addicts don't raise their hand to go to treatment.. I mean why are there interventionists?) AND if they are in treatment long enough.. What is long enough? I don't know, but it seems that more prolonged and heavy use requires a long time..and for some, treatment far away from their cohorts.. with that being said, my daughter's sponser was a heroin addict, went to jail for several months, got out and went to meetings and has been sober for 4 years..

Eddiebuckle

I don't know that outpatient would have worked for me, I went to a six week inpatient program that I admitted myself into and even though I considered myself a hard worker and motivated to stay sober, it was not easy coming home and staying that way. I do not think my outcome would have been the same if I was trying to get sober while living in the same place, driving by the same liquor stores, and exposed to the same people, etc. In the end, I found my long term sobriety in AA (I never relapsed, but I was far from rock solid when I got home) and I believe it is true that many who are ambivalent about sobriety will "try" outpatient treatment as a way to get the world off their back about drug/alcohol abuse.

Seren

My stepson was sent to Intensive Outpatient Therapy after nearly dying from drinking. Didn't do anything for him because he was not ready for it. He turned to crack for a while, and is now back to drinking.

Elphie

That was the case for me, 23 years ago I took a hard look at myself in the mirror, saw what cocaine had done to my life, decided, I could not face my children if this continued. Quit that day, struggled through the withdrawal, cravings and lack of drugs by turning my entire focus to my children....playing with them, doing everything with them. I eliminated all drug users from my life, even asked my landlord to let me move into a different apartment in the complex so that i would not be around others in my building who were using. I never looked back, never used again.

My daughters problem with opiates (percs), took over her life, her daughter suffered, left to play alone, dealing with Mommy and Daddy's mood swings and fights, she was subjected to all sorts of people in and out of the house buying drugs. I had always been very honest with my kids about my past issues, told them how hard it was, how much i struggled as a single parent and trying to do it all on my own....i never wanted them to suffer that way...but, here we are.

She is doing outpatient treatment, supposedly working at it....trying to get on wait lists for other programs, but, still very depressed, homeless, and in many ways not doing much to take control of her life and sobriety. This scares the **** out of me.

difference is I saw it, wanted/needed to turn things around, made that decision on my own....in her case I forced the issue, what she is doing now is due to kicking her out, taking my granddaughter...not her choice...big difference in long term recovery.

Elphie

THAT is my biggest concern, that she is doing what she is doing now to shut us all up. Not because it is what she really WANTS....which will not last in the long term, she will go back to her life, which will be even more difficult now since she will have to live on her own, pay her own way, no more free ride at Mom's....i so worry that is a recipe for disaster.

PrayingMama

Dear Elphie,

I can only offer what experience I have now, what knowledge, what light, so it's just my thoughts on the matter as the mother of a 21-year-old son seeking help.

I could say that the outpatient program was not enough for my son, but that would be denying what he gained from it: one of the most skilled and gifted clinicians I have ever met and with whom my son immediately respected and developed a rapport. This in itself was a priceless gift. Though my son was "failing" the IOP, he kept going back until the next step, Partial Hospitalization plus living at the program's residential facility. "Failing" the IOP brought him to the next step.

Partial Hospitalization while at the residential facility was not enough--it has now been determined that treatment for depression (for which he was first diagnosed when in middle school) must coincide with treatment for addiction. This means a program equipped to treat dual-diagnosis, which is now the next step in his journey.

Nothing is wasted. What is not enough can lead to what is more appropriate and effective. It can be very frustrating, but part of walking this heartbreaking and mysterious path (our own process) is learning to slow down, step back, breathe deeply, surrender to the fact that we do not see the "big picture" and all of that is ultimately okay. Surrender is so difficult for me, so I sympathize with anyone who struggles with that, who some days thinks, "Screw surrender! I want some results--now!"

I continue to pray for you and your daughter and her daughter. No matter what the individual's motivation is for entering any kind of treatment, there will be benefits reaped. Not as quickly or as definitively as we might wish for, but benefits nonetheless.

I hope this helps a little. Again, just my observations from my own experiences.

May God bless you and keep you, and give you a break today.

Elphie

AD is "supposedly" looking at Sober houses now, (imo - skipping necessary steps in the process)...but, at least doing something....Of course she is not doing this completely by herself, she had involved a family friend to baby step her along the way and go with her to check out places.

I'm hoping she does this, continues on the right path, but, it is so hard not to worry and get upset the more she tries to take shortcuts through this journey......

She's getting mad at me for not being more "supportive"... not making any major acknowledgement of her "30 days clean"...and for not letting her talk to my granddaughter...she basically refused to give me the child's SS# and I had to search her room to find it, along with the medical records...she had not taken my grandbaby to the doctor in almost two years. really hard to find hope here.......

SundaysChild

They say that opiates actually injure the brain - and that an addict needs about 2 years clean to fully heal the damage. Residential treatment can help ensure they have some actual clean time to heal the damage...but it is no guarantee of success. The toughest part is putting it all together after treatment - living in the real world. So an "ideal" plan for a motivated addict would be supervised detox, residential treatment, then structured sober living for about a year...with meetings, therapy, and outpatient support continuing after that. Libby Cataldi, in her book "Keep Close" writes about a program in Italy that requires a 3-5 year commitment.

Every addict is different, though - so there really isn't one size fits all.

Here's what "our" path has looked like:

We sent him to treatment when he was 16 for marijuana and alcohol use. He was also cutting and burning himself. (he's now 19).

We set up psychologist and psychiatrist appointments for four years

We sent him to treatment again at 17, after intervening with police to keep him out of jail. By this point he was addicted to percocet and benzos.

We had him hospitalized twice, at 17 and 18, for suicidal threats that arose when we confronted him about his drug addiction.

Four months after he turned 18, we did an intervention and sent him off to treatment again.

When he finished the 45 days, we told him he had lost our trust and needed to be sober for a year before he could come home, and offered him a phased extended care program, which transitioned addicts to independent living through a progressively less restrictive sober living environment.

A week before graduation from that program, after 11 months and three weeks clean, he relapsed...and spiraled down into IV heroin.

He reached out for help five weeks later. He told his roommate (another RA), then called his sponsor, and went to a meeting. He was still high at the first meeting.

He called us a few days later, and told us he'd relapsed. (This was no surprise- we'd been "watching" him fall apart for weeks.) He detoxed on his own, and started picking up the phone, calling AA contacts. He went to meetings. He was rejected from one outpatient program, and didn't call any more. He called his psychiatrist, and began taking naltrexone. He attends several meetings a week, and is working the steps with a sponsor.

I kept my mouth shut about what he "should" be doing, and watched things unfold. It's been about 2 1/2 months. If he makes it this time, it will be because he OWNS his recovery.


The key to success is for her to want recovery, and work a program. She needs to establish relationships with sober women, and needs to believe the future without drugs is better for her than the future with drugs. If she's highly motivated, she can do this with an outpatient program, or just with meetings...even if she appears to be "skipping steps."

Making it to 30 days clean and looking for sober living environments is a good thing. The fact that her attitude with you is still negative is characteristic of early recovery. The substances leave their bodies quicker than the addict thinking does.

It's up to her though. You've done all you can do-- kicking her out, taking charge of her daughter. You can pray for her, and keep your boundaries strong. She may make it...she may not...but you can't control the outcome.

Are you going to meetings, or doing anything for yourself? I know its tough with work, and your granddaughter, but you've been running on empty for quite a while, now, and need to recharge and relax.

**{Hugs}}

Elphie

I'm trying to keep hoping, praying that she will really be motivated to do this....

She is supposedly headed to "A New Beginning Sober Living" in Dorchester as of this weekend, so at least she wont be living in her truck. But, I can't seem to find out too much about this place online, have asked on another board about it and so far no feedback. Its month to month...so we'll see how long she sticks to it.

Her ABF - is still in a psych lock down, but, is supposed to be transfered into a 9 month program...he's on heavy duty meds right now.

October Guardianship hearing is coming and DCF is recommending an extension of the Guardianship, it won't look good to the courts that she is not doing long term or residential treatment....she was told that by DCF, but, again it's been more about her wants/needs rather than doing whatever it takes to get her kid back.

I know I need to do something for myself, but, finances and time are both so tight I don't know if that is possible. I work about 50 hours a week, and barely cover my bills with my income....no clue how I will pay for day care and other needs....
The most I've been able to do was one night last week, when my oldest was watching the little one, I snuck out for a beer....just sat and enjoyed it and felt like a normal person for an hour.

imsober42day

i find that inpatient is the way to go for someone who is really struggeling....
they are in a safe place 24 hours a day as oppose to outpatient where they go during day and then wat? they pass the friends house or liqour store or dealer and they get weak....
thats just my expirience

TurnItOff

I think it depends so much on the individual. My alcoholic father did an outpatient program almost ten years ago for his addiction (for whatever reason, he didn't qualify for inpatient). He has remained sober ever since. But he gave himself to the program, did what they said, and when they would try to graduate him to a level he wasn't ready for, he said "no. leave me where I am."

My AH also tried outpatient (he also didn't qualify for inpatient at the time). Maintained sobriety for the first four or so weeks of it and then fell of the wagon. He did learn a lot of good tools in the program, but wasn't willing to ask for more than he was getting. He showed up for the sessions but was not really working on recovery.

In my opinion, the big difference was that my dad was 100% ready to be done with the drinking when he went into his program. My AH was not.

tbeit

I havnt read this entire thread but I can answer your question I'm an addict and I went to inpatient then outpatient as aftercare. For me the op was the key because I was in real life working and living if I didnt have the structure of op I probably would have failed. I did end up relapsing but it was 8 years later on different drugs I had an accident and got addicted to the painkillers. I origanally went to treatment for coke and alcohol and I never went back to them Hope this helps.............................T