I found an analogy I can understand

Old 08-04-2012, 04:11 AM
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I found an analogy I can understand

I saw this post where someone was asking if an addict even cares about their family a question that I often wonder about. I don't know why maybe it is normal to wonder that in this case the DOC is heroin and this was the post that struck me.

No, they care. But their reward mechanism in their brain becomes greater than their need to breath. Ask someone who is drowning in a pool, if they would rather see their child 1 last time before they die, or to get 1 more breath of fresh air. They will pick air. Not because they don't love their child, but because their brain screams air! Just as an addicts brain screams , "heroin!

While his brain is screaming opiates mine is screaming Hands Off
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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I too have made the analogy that the next fix, at least in the case of opiates/opioids, tends to be no different than our need to take our next breath. It's a wonder anyone beats this carp.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:11 AM
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Thank you CB -

The timing of your post is perfect. My husband was just trying to explain something very similar and I couldn't wrap my head around it. He lived to use and used to live. (yuck). He feared DEATH. Death? or withdrawals??? I think that expression is far more literal then I ever thought.

What I am learning for me is.....is not just "hands of the addict," but it's "hands off the addict working a recovery" as well. I am not an addict and I don't understand. I don't want to minimize what he believes, I can not "help" him and his need for other addicts (NA) is very important because they do understand. He needs his people and I need mine!!

Staying on our prospective sides of the street is very important. It's not just an expression, it's a must for both of us!!
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:22 AM
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thank you so much for this post crazybabie.

ive read many times over here and heard from friends that our As dont love us, like they really never felt anything while we were with them...maybe its not the same love we expect to get for what we give (and we codies show the best love which labeled us the best enablers)...but i do believe that they do have feelings too.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:18 AM
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Leise,
I agree and sympathize.But I do not believe that anger & hostility disprove the
analogy.I would extend the analogy and say that while your nostrils are underwater
you have a weapon to use as a lever----YOU WILL USE IT.

In my experience,people are uncomfortable with non-intuitive concepts--e.g.
Heisenburg uncertainty principle.There ARE things in this world that are proveable,
demonstrable dualities----both true at the same time.

Playing by an open airplane door without a parachute? A choice.A dumb one but a
choice.After all,you CAN play NEAR it and NOT fall out.

But after the worst happens,and you are in freefall? The choice is gone.All the
"wanting" is not going to get you back in that airplane.

-but this quote of yours........
>>>>My experience says they do not love, they merely use.<<<<<
.........is 100% dead on!

The heavy opiates are SO powerful they literally think they are going to
die without them.Your deep reptilian brain has ONE prime directive and it's
NOT to catch the 7:30 showing of that movie you've been wanting to see.

Hold your breath for as long as you can.That seems to be the closest
approximation we 'normies' can attain.

The dopamine "payoff machine" (that you do virtually everything you
consciously do to satisfy) in your brain is running the show.When it is
broken or off the tracks....it isn't going to be pretty.

It was not rational to expect a comfortable & uneventful flight after
the 911 hijackers invaded the cockpits and killed the REAL flightcrew.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:52 AM
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That is so true and so indicative of how the reward system drives a person …

We all seek out air, food, water, shelter, sex, companionship, as a means to survive, that is how we are wired, but heroin ( opiates ) comes in and rewires that in time, to heroin, heroin, drug, drug. This is one of the biggest reasons behind why wd becomes an incentive to use, not to stop.

And I don’t agree with they do not love they merely use ... because I just can’t set that as a truth for anymore …
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Leise View Post
I do not believe that.

My once sweet and charming XABF turned hostile and threatened to shoot me when he found out that I had moved on and was not coming back to him. If you truly care about someone you do not threaten to harm them.

I hasten to add that when we parted it was amicable, and I hugged him goodbye, he did not want to stop drinking and drugging and I did not want a relationship with an addict. A year later when he found out that I was engaged to another the threats began in earnest.

My experience says they do not love, they merely use.

Lyn
sorry to hear that leise, i guess my experience is different, my xabf never tried to harm me...as in say bad things, my one and great challenge with him is that he cant, doesnt and wont STOP snorting...i know its a cliche to say we had the best of times together when he is sober of course, and even then when i see him or am with him when he is high...he doesnt really do anything other than pace around his one bedroom house for 2 days non-stop...doesnt say much other than...are you hungry? would you like to watch a movie? (dvd)...this is the time that i cry and beg him to stop using as i dont understand why he does this to himself when we can play golf or tennis or soccer outside...when his mom told me to stop helping him out and he is short of 2 months rent...then he went to the next enabler...who paid his 2 months rent...like i said, maybe the love he has or affection or whatever you want to call it may not be the same as what i expected but again they have feelings too.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:18 PM
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I'm not sure if they HAVE feelings in active addiction.

In my experience they don't APPEAR to.

When they NEED something,it's all sweetness and light
and "thank you,thank you,THANK YOU!!"----once they get
it--you simply don't exist.

Easy to take that as a personal slight until you understand
the affliction a little better.Just like a salesman doesn't go on and
on about the benefits of buying that particular car after you're
signing the papers in a cubicle.

Why would he? The sale is made.Time to get back to the lot and
start trolling for new prospects.

It's survival and higher order thinking (sociality,
friendship,etc)......simply gets in the way.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by incitingsilence View Post
That is so true and so indicative of how the reward system drives a person …

We all seek out air, food, water, shelter, sex, companionship, as a means to survive, that is how we are wired, but heroin ( opiates ) comes in and rewires that in time, to heroin, heroin, drug, drug. This is one of the biggest reasons behind why wd becomes an incentive to use, not to stop.

And I don’t agree with they do not love they merely use ... because I just can’t set that as a truth for anymore …
================================================== ===
incitingsilence,
That is POWERFUL! And why I no longer think in terms of "addicted"
(a word with more baggage & folklore than most).
My preferred word is REWIRED.The latest neuroscience seems to support
this.How tragic & inevitable the outcome when the brain gets it's highest
dopamine 'payout' for actions inimical to it's very survival.

What if I gained orgasmic pleasure from putting my hands in fire?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:17 PM
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In my experience, I do believe my opiate addicted husband loved his family.............but we became a very distance second to his addiction. However, as his addiction progressed.........I believe his "survival" was all that mattered but in moments of clarity we he hated himself, hated his addiction, feared he could never stop.....he did indeed feel love, sadness and remorse for what he had become.
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