So much conflicting information
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
"just wanted to let you know people do overcome addiction. They do go on to lead healthy, happy lives. (but it wont be talked about here very often as those people are chased away)."
I am sorry you feel that way. Many of us here are seeking recovery and are leading healthy, happy lives. Drugs may not have been our addiction but many of had our own demons to conquer.
Any and all stories of ES&H are welcomed. Many people here need to hear stories of hope. It's all that is left after years of heart break, disappointment and real pain.
Like yours, my husband is in recovery too. But I am so glad I have a place to talk about ME though because I am still in recovery and have a long way to go.
I am sorry you feel that way. Many of us here are seeking recovery and are leading healthy, happy lives. Drugs may not have been our addiction but many of had our own demons to conquer.
Any and all stories of ES&H are welcomed. Many people here need to hear stories of hope. It's all that is left after years of heart break, disappointment and real pain.
Like yours, my husband is in recovery too. But I am so glad I have a place to talk about ME though because I am still in recovery and have a long way to go.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 74
There was a man who had given much thought to what he wanted from life. He had experienced
many moods and trials. He had experimented with different ways of living, and he had had his
share of both success and failure. At last, he began to see clearly where he wanted to go.
Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he came close, only to be pushed
away. Often he applied all his strength and imagination, only to find the path hopelessly blocked.
And then at last it came. But the opportunity would not wait. It would be made available only
for a short time. If it were seen that he was not committed, the opportunity would not come
again.
Eager to arrive, he started on his journey. With each step, he wanted to move faster; with each
thought about his goal, his heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found
renewed vigor. Strength that had left him since his early youth returned, and desires, all kinds of
desires, reawakened from their long-dormant positions.
Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the middle of a town. It had been
built high above a river in order to protect it from the floods of spring. He started across. Then
he noticed someone coming from the opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as
though the other were coming to greet him. He could see clearly, however, that he did not know
this other, who was dressed similarly except for something tied around his waist.
When they were within hailing distance, he could see that what the other had about his waist
was a rope. It was wrapped around him many times and probably, if extended, would reach a
length of 30 feet.
The other began to uncurl the rope, and, just as they were coming close, the stranger said,
“Pardon me, would you be so kind as to hold the end a moment?” Surprised by this politely
phrased but curious request, he agreed without a thought, reached out, and took it.
“Thank you,” said the other, who then added, “two hands now, and remember, hold tight.”
Whereupon, the other jumped off the bridge.
Quickly, the free-falling body hurtled the distance of the rope’s length, and from the bridge the
man abruptly felt the pull. Instinctively, he held tight and was almost dragged over the side. He
managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and after having caught his breath, looked
down at the other dangling, close to oblivion.
“What are you trying to do?” he yelled.
“Just hold tight,” said the other.
“This is ridiculous,” the man thought and began trying to haul the other in. He could not get the
leverage, however. It was as though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope
had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they created a counterweight just
beyond his strength to bring the other back to safety.
“Why did you do this?” the man called out.
“Remember,” said the other, “if you let go, I will be lost.”
“But I cannot pull you up,” the man cried.
“I am your responsibility,” said the other.
“Well, I did not ask for it,” the man said.
“If you let go, I am lost,” repeated the other.
He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How long would he have to wait? Why
did this happen to befall him now, just as he was on the verge of true success? He examined the
side, searching for a place to tie the rope. Some protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in the
boards. But the railing was unusually uniform in shape; there were no spaces between the
boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound burden, even temporarily.
“What do you want?” he asked the other hanging below.
“Just your help,” the other answered.
“How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to tie the rope so that I can go and
find someone to help me help you.”
“I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope around your waist; it will be easier.”
Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied the rope around his waist.
“Why did you do this?” he asked again. “Don’t you see what you have done? What possible purpose
could you have had in mind?”
“Just remember,” said the other, “my life is in your hands.”
What should he do? “If I let go, all my life I will know that I let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing
my momentum toward my own long-sought-after salvation. Either way this will haunt me
forever.” With ironic humor he thought to die himself, instantly, to jump off the bridge while still
holding on. “That would teach this fool.” But he wanted to live and to live life fully. “What a
choice I have to make; how shall I ever decide?”
As time went by, still no one came. The critical moment of decision was drawing near. To show
his commitment to his own goals, he would have to continue on his journey now. It was already
almost too late to arrive in time. But what a terrible choice to have to make.
A new thought occurred to him. While he could not pull this other up solely by his own efforts,
if the other would shorten the rope from his end by curling it around his waist again and again,
together they could do it. Actually, the other could do it by himself, so long as he, standing on
the bridge, kept it still and steady.
“Now listen,” he shouted down. “I think I know how to save you.” And he explained his plan.
But the other wasn’t interested.
“You mean you won’t help? But I told you I cannot pull you up myself, and I don’t think I can
hang on much longer either.”
“You must try,” the other shouted back in tears. “If you fail, I die.”
The point of decision arrived. What should he do? “My life or this other’s?” And then a new idea.
A revelation. So new, in fact, it seemed heretical, so alien was it to his traditional way of thinking.
“I want you to listen carefully,” he said, “because I mean what I am about to say. I will not accept
the position of choice for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your own life I
hereby give back to you.”
“What do you mean?” the other asked, afraid.
“I mean, simply, it’s up to you. You decide which way this ends. I will become the counterweight.
You do the pulling and bring yourself up. I will even tug a little from here.” He began unwinding
the rope from around his waist and braced himself anew against the side.
“You cannot mean what you say,” the other shrieked. “You would not be so selfish. I am your
responsibility. What could be so important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to
me.”
He waited a moment. There was no change in the tension of the rope.
“I accept your choice,” he said, at last, and freed his hands.
The End.
many moods and trials. He had experimented with different ways of living, and he had had his
share of both success and failure. At last, he began to see clearly where he wanted to go.
Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he came close, only to be pushed
away. Often he applied all his strength and imagination, only to find the path hopelessly blocked.
And then at last it came. But the opportunity would not wait. It would be made available only
for a short time. If it were seen that he was not committed, the opportunity would not come
again.
Eager to arrive, he started on his journey. With each step, he wanted to move faster; with each
thought about his goal, his heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found
renewed vigor. Strength that had left him since his early youth returned, and desires, all kinds of
desires, reawakened from their long-dormant positions.
Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the middle of a town. It had been
built high above a river in order to protect it from the floods of spring. He started across. Then
he noticed someone coming from the opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as
though the other were coming to greet him. He could see clearly, however, that he did not know
this other, who was dressed similarly except for something tied around his waist.
When they were within hailing distance, he could see that what the other had about his waist
was a rope. It was wrapped around him many times and probably, if extended, would reach a
length of 30 feet.
The other began to uncurl the rope, and, just as they were coming close, the stranger said,
“Pardon me, would you be so kind as to hold the end a moment?” Surprised by this politely
phrased but curious request, he agreed without a thought, reached out, and took it.
“Thank you,” said the other, who then added, “two hands now, and remember, hold tight.”
Whereupon, the other jumped off the bridge.
Quickly, the free-falling body hurtled the distance of the rope’s length, and from the bridge the
man abruptly felt the pull. Instinctively, he held tight and was almost dragged over the side. He
managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and after having caught his breath, looked
down at the other dangling, close to oblivion.
“What are you trying to do?” he yelled.
“Just hold tight,” said the other.
“This is ridiculous,” the man thought and began trying to haul the other in. He could not get the
leverage, however. It was as though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope
had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they created a counterweight just
beyond his strength to bring the other back to safety.
“Why did you do this?” the man called out.
“Remember,” said the other, “if you let go, I will be lost.”
“But I cannot pull you up,” the man cried.
“I am your responsibility,” said the other.
“Well, I did not ask for it,” the man said.
“If you let go, I am lost,” repeated the other.
He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How long would he have to wait? Why
did this happen to befall him now, just as he was on the verge of true success? He examined the
side, searching for a place to tie the rope. Some protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in the
boards. But the railing was unusually uniform in shape; there were no spaces between the
boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound burden, even temporarily.
“What do you want?” he asked the other hanging below.
“Just your help,” the other answered.
“How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to tie the rope so that I can go and
find someone to help me help you.”
“I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope around your waist; it will be easier.”
Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied the rope around his waist.
“Why did you do this?” he asked again. “Don’t you see what you have done? What possible purpose
could you have had in mind?”
“Just remember,” said the other, “my life is in your hands.”
What should he do? “If I let go, all my life I will know that I let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing
my momentum toward my own long-sought-after salvation. Either way this will haunt me
forever.” With ironic humor he thought to die himself, instantly, to jump off the bridge while still
holding on. “That would teach this fool.” But he wanted to live and to live life fully. “What a
choice I have to make; how shall I ever decide?”
As time went by, still no one came. The critical moment of decision was drawing near. To show
his commitment to his own goals, he would have to continue on his journey now. It was already
almost too late to arrive in time. But what a terrible choice to have to make.
A new thought occurred to him. While he could not pull this other up solely by his own efforts,
if the other would shorten the rope from his end by curling it around his waist again and again,
together they could do it. Actually, the other could do it by himself, so long as he, standing on
the bridge, kept it still and steady.
“Now listen,” he shouted down. “I think I know how to save you.” And he explained his plan.
But the other wasn’t interested.
“You mean you won’t help? But I told you I cannot pull you up myself, and I don’t think I can
hang on much longer either.”
“You must try,” the other shouted back in tears. “If you fail, I die.”
The point of decision arrived. What should he do? “My life or this other’s?” And then a new idea.
A revelation. So new, in fact, it seemed heretical, so alien was it to his traditional way of thinking.
“I want you to listen carefully,” he said, “because I mean what I am about to say. I will not accept
the position of choice for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your own life I
hereby give back to you.”
“What do you mean?” the other asked, afraid.
“I mean, simply, it’s up to you. You decide which way this ends. I will become the counterweight.
You do the pulling and bring yourself up. I will even tug a little from here.” He began unwinding
the rope from around his waist and braced himself anew against the side.
“You cannot mean what you say,” the other shrieked. “You would not be so selfish. I am your
responsibility. What could be so important that you would let someone die? Do not do this to
me.”
He waited a moment. There was no change in the tension of the rope.
“I accept your choice,” he said, at last, and freed his hands.
The End.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 160
This is a really interesting topic to me- I too have noticed that while people here are saying that alanon and naranon neither support nor discourage staying with an addicted spouse or in a relationship with an addicted child, many of the posts seem to say 'if you want serenity, LEAVE now!'.
EJG123- Thank you so much for that. I think that is something I have been struggling with myself. I had actually been able to completely forgive my RAH in the past for relapses, feeling like after a few years its so in the past and there is so much love and so much to be grateful for in him that I would be able to keep loving him anyway even if it happened again. It just hurts so damn much when it does happen that I'm really thrown. And not sure exactly how far the 'equity' goes. But thank you so much for putting that into words for me, so I can understand this feeling better.
I might add that my RAH's MO was to be sober/great dad for up to three years before slipping up for at most three days before coming back to try sobriety again. Not to minimize his problem (I could also give a laundry list that churns my stomach), but I guess its more of an early stage addict situation. That might make some difference to whether any optimism is justified.
I think the key thing for me in deciding, is to think of how well can I hold up if this doesn't work, if he does relapse- will I be ok? In our situation, for a variety of reasons, the answer is yes, I believe I, and the family finances and safety, can withstand another stumble on his long journey.
That may be as much 'success' as I will get. Because likely he will relapse. In our case, he is also likely to be ready to try again at working the program. If that happens again shortly, I would not stay, if it happens in a few years, I probably would. Thanks to EJG, I can now get why that contradiction makes sense- because my husband in almost every other way is a really great guy who has more than earned the loyalty to get through a few bad days (albeit followed by some rocky months) every couple of years.
Only the addict can make the decision to get sober. And only we ourselves can decide how much 'equity' has been earned, how much addiction mayhem is too much to handle, and how much might actually be ok (well, not ok, but tolerable, or at least non-toxic). A lot of addicts do burn through their relationship equity right along with their financial equity, so I would assume that's why so many here will be heard saying "its not worth it". But, FWIW, there are some of us who can say it is, knowing full well what the risks are and without it being a delusion or minimizing.
I absolutely support saving yourself first, which might mean recognizing and leaving a toxic relationship. But it also might just mean having a back-up plan ready in case of future disaster. Having a list of people to call who can help with kids, money, housing, job etc, so if (and with high rates of relapse, that 'if' is a likelihood) another disaster befalls you, you can be secure.
I've posted recently about sitting on the fence with knowing what to do about my own relationship- can anyone guess which side of the fence I'm finding myself on today?
EJG123- Thank you so much for that. I think that is something I have been struggling with myself. I had actually been able to completely forgive my RAH in the past for relapses, feeling like after a few years its so in the past and there is so much love and so much to be grateful for in him that I would be able to keep loving him anyway even if it happened again. It just hurts so damn much when it does happen that I'm really thrown. And not sure exactly how far the 'equity' goes. But thank you so much for putting that into words for me, so I can understand this feeling better.
I might add that my RAH's MO was to be sober/great dad for up to three years before slipping up for at most three days before coming back to try sobriety again. Not to minimize his problem (I could also give a laundry list that churns my stomach), but I guess its more of an early stage addict situation. That might make some difference to whether any optimism is justified.
I think the key thing for me in deciding, is to think of how well can I hold up if this doesn't work, if he does relapse- will I be ok? In our situation, for a variety of reasons, the answer is yes, I believe I, and the family finances and safety, can withstand another stumble on his long journey.
That may be as much 'success' as I will get. Because likely he will relapse. In our case, he is also likely to be ready to try again at working the program. If that happens again shortly, I would not stay, if it happens in a few years, I probably would. Thanks to EJG, I can now get why that contradiction makes sense- because my husband in almost every other way is a really great guy who has more than earned the loyalty to get through a few bad days (albeit followed by some rocky months) every couple of years.
Only the addict can make the decision to get sober. And only we ourselves can decide how much 'equity' has been earned, how much addiction mayhem is too much to handle, and how much might actually be ok (well, not ok, but tolerable, or at least non-toxic). A lot of addicts do burn through their relationship equity right along with their financial equity, so I would assume that's why so many here will be heard saying "its not worth it". But, FWIW, there are some of us who can say it is, knowing full well what the risks are and without it being a delusion or minimizing.
I absolutely support saving yourself first, which might mean recognizing and leaving a toxic relationship. But it also might just mean having a back-up plan ready in case of future disaster. Having a list of people to call who can help with kids, money, housing, job etc, so if (and with high rates of relapse, that 'if' is a likelihood) another disaster befalls you, you can be secure.
I've posted recently about sitting on the fence with knowing what to do about my own relationship- can anyone guess which side of the fence I'm finding myself on today?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 97
I have also heard that "wants to go to treatment". Maybe it is like an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. If the addict had to " want" to get clean on their own, there would be no need for interventions. Maybe it is the difference between wanting and willing? I know there has been some degree of intervention on my daughter the 3 times she has gone into treatment. She is in treatment now, and was wanting and willing to go after some confrontation. However, when we drove up to the treatment center and got out of the car, she started back pedeling.. I didn't buy into it and she did go..... I think the consequences of their addiction is proportional to their degree of wanting and willing..maybe the pressure of confrontation or intervention can be enough to establish the willingness and the real wanting kicks in after they are clean for a little while and can realize the pit they have been in.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
I can only share my ES&H. I came here, years ago (lurked a couple of years). I was active in addiction, had only a slight clue that I turned to substances to deal with the stuff I could NOT deal with as a codie.
I learned that "success" wasn't always what I thought it was. Yes, I have over 5 years in recovery for addiction and codependency. I've lost loved ones who were still A's or who were suffering from health consquences of their addiction. I live with an active A who is also a raging codie, ACOA, etc. My dad has become a codie, also in the same house.
Most days I don't try to "fix" them. Yes, there are times I slip, codie-wise, but SR has been my grounding place for a long time. To this day, when things get tough, when I feel the world crashing around me, my first thought is "just get me to SR, I will be okay".
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I learned that "success" wasn't always what I thought it was. Yes, I have over 5 years in recovery for addiction and codependency. I've lost loved ones who were still A's or who were suffering from health consquences of their addiction. I live with an active A who is also a raging codie, ACOA, etc. My dad has become a codie, also in the same house.
Most days I don't try to "fix" them. Yes, there are times I slip, codie-wise, but SR has been my grounding place for a long time. To this day, when things get tough, when I feel the world crashing around me, my first thought is "just get me to SR, I will be okay".
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by octoberrain 
@KnBlueSkies - I just wanted to let you know people do overcome addiction. They do go on to lead healthy, happy lives. (but it wont be talked about here very often as those people are chased away).
I do not think that is true. I for one welcome your story. It gives me hope to know there is hope and that they CAN over come addiction. Thank you for your post!
I do not think that is true. I for one welcome your story. It gives me hope to know there is hope and that they CAN over come addiction. Thank you for your post!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,684
Originally Posted by outtolunch
Addiction web sites are usually marketing tools for rehab/treatment.
It's usually the loved ones who are checking out these sites, not the addict/alcoholic. Rehab /treatment is business, BIG business. Love and support = new/repeat business.
Those who let go/disengage from the chaos do so to save themselves.
Recovery from anything, including codependency, is an inside job.
It's usually the loved ones who are checking out these sites, not the addict/alcoholic. Rehab /treatment is business, BIG business. Love and support = new/repeat business.
Those who let go/disengage from the chaos do so to save themselves.
Recovery from anything, including codependency, is an inside job.
So much wisdom here and good, solid input. This place is my reality check.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 74
My boyfriend went to the doctor on Friday and owned up to his addiction. The reason why I made the appointment to begin with was because of the anti depressants my boyfriend was taking. I was afraid of it's interaction with cocaine. My boyfriend had stopped taking cocaine last Saturday on his own, it was six days he was clean (meaning not taking cocaine) by the time he seen his doctor. He was having withdrawal symptoms like leg spasms which kept him up all night including the mental stress of the withdrawal and depression/guilt. He was like a tightly wound band that was ready to snap. Not through anger but sanity. His doctor was able to provide some medical relief. He pretty much quoted everything I had already say to bf because of the information I was able to retrieve from this site. I didn't realize that when cocaine leaves it country of origin it is broken down so much that when the public buys it they are only buying 2% cocaine and the rest is fillers. So basically people are spending $50/100 a pop for 2% coke, baking soda, flour, rat killer and whatever else the dealers decide to put in there. The doctor also mentioned an incident when a young person decided to try cocaine one time and went into a coma and passed away. It disgusts me that these people are on the streets selling cocaine they should come with a warning label. How many people are they killing and getting away with it? How many people are getting hooked?
I showed him different articles on this site to let him know what he was doing by lying and manipulating his family, myself and being an absentee father. I was told more then once by "friends" I was brutally honest. He needed to hear what I had to say regarding his behavior. I was honest. I also told him I would help but not financially, but I will give him a boot in the arse when needed. I hope this works!
I showed him different articles on this site to let him know what he was doing by lying and manipulating his family, myself and being an absentee father. I was told more then once by "friends" I was brutally honest. He needed to hear what I had to say regarding his behavior. I was honest. I also told him I would help but not financially, but I will give him a boot in the arse when needed. I hope this works!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Just my two cents on this topic. I think that a lot of gals and guys come to this site for support when they are at the end of their rope and don't know where else to turn and just went to vent and get some things off of their chest as they are living with active addicts, so that is where all the negativity comes from. I know that with me, I personally only seem to post when I am feeling bad and filled with anxiety and angst regarding my addicted spouse. I don't tend to come to the boards when my spouse is doing well and not abusing his pain meds.
I have good moments with my addicted spouse from time to time, he is not always doped up. I am sure that there are some successes out there but not too many people post those wonderful events because they are living their lives and enjoying those happy sober moments. Living with an active addict seems to isolate many of us and that is why we turn to the boards for support.
I am sure a lot of individuals would say to leave but I think that they are telling you that because the have lived with active addiction and they just don't want anyone else to suffer like they have, many for years. Believe me I know that I would not want any spouse to go through what I have gone through and am going through with my spouse but there is always hope and it is nice to hear that some individuals do escape addiction, it is possible, but you also don't want to have blinders on, and that is where these boards come in handy.
I have good moments with my addicted spouse from time to time, he is not always doped up. I am sure that there are some successes out there but not too many people post those wonderful events because they are living their lives and enjoying those happy sober moments. Living with an active addict seems to isolate many of us and that is why we turn to the boards for support.
I am sure a lot of individuals would say to leave but I think that they are telling you that because the have lived with active addiction and they just don't want anyone else to suffer like they have, many for years. Believe me I know that I would not want any spouse to go through what I have gone through and am going through with my spouse but there is always hope and it is nice to hear that some individuals do escape addiction, it is possible, but you also don't want to have blinders on, and that is where these boards come in handy.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by Redapples
My boyfriend went to the doctor on Friday and owned up to his addiction. The reason why I made the appointment to begin with was because of the anti depressants my boyfriend was taking. I was afraid of it's interaction with cocaine. My boyfriend had stopped taking cocaine last Saturday on his own, it was six days he was clean (meaning not taking cocaine) by the time he seen his doctor. He was having withdrawal symptoms like leg spasms which kept him up all night including the mental stress of the withdrawal and depression/guilt. He was like a tightly wound band that was ready to snap. Not through anger but sanity. His doctor was able to provide some medical relief. He pretty much quoted everything I had already say to bf because of the information I was able to retrieve from this site. I didn't realize that when cocaine leaves it country of origin it is broken down so much that when the public buys it they are only buying 2% cocaine and the rest is fillers. So basically people are spending $50/100 a pop for 2% coke, baking soda, flour, rat killer and whatever else the dealers decide to put in there. The doctor also mentioned an incident when a young person decided to try cocaine one time and went into a coma and passed away. It disgusts me that these people are on the streets selling cocaine they should come with a warning label. How many people are they killing and getting away with it? How many people are getting hooked?
I showed him different articles on this site to let him know what he was doing by lying and manipulating his family, myself and being an absentee father. I was told more then once by "friends" I was brutally honest. He needed to hear what I had to say regarding his behavior. I was honest. I also told him I would help but not financially, but I will give him a boot in the arse when needed. I hope this works!
I showed him different articles on this site to let him know what he was doing by lying and manipulating his family, myself and being an absentee father. I was told more then once by "friends" I was brutally honest. He needed to hear what I had to say regarding his behavior. I was honest. I also told him I would help but not financially, but I will give him a boot in the arse when needed. I hope this works!
He did cold turkey also. its the best way with cocaine i think.
My husband has not used in years now. I dont think he will go back to it because he changed his lifestyle and filled it with other things. But of course its possible he could still revert. I dont worry about it though.
Its very encouraging that your boyfriend talked to his doctor. And I agree you should always speak your mind, and not hide your feelings. That is what I did also. We never had serious trouble over his using, but there were a few times when I booted him in the arse also. And Id gladly do it again if necessary.
Good luck to you both.
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