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-   -   Is there ever hope of a loving relationship (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-substance-abusers/261570-there-ever-hope-loving-relationship.html)

Lara 07-05-2012 08:56 AM

Is there ever hope of a loving relationship
 
Dear all...I have recently joined SR (and blown away by the support of 'strangers' and the wisdom and willing to share). I joined when my darling love, best friend of 10 years, and who I have been in a serious relationship for the last 7 years - who we have spoken about a future and marriage... who became addicted to cocaine in 2007 - spent 4 months in rehab a year ago - and now has been in recover for a year.... who out of the blue almost 2 weeks ago told me 'I need to pull back, otherwise I won't make it' (H was referring to recover and the possibility of relapsing) - I only know this because he spoke to my sister (whom he is also very close to) - He suddenly one night didn't arrive to take me out to dinner (a first in 10 years) - I called and called but no reply. As the days went by with absolutely no response or phone call (he was still keeping in touch with my sister) - I bumped into him and I asked him to please explain what the matter is...he just started to scream at me "Don't push me - I will tell you when I am ready". I stupidly asked him again and with that he screamed "Get the hell out of my life"!
He called my sister in the morning to say to her that his feelings for me have not changed, that he loves me, but that he needs to focus solely on himself as he wont make it......I find this so frightening, as I am the one who has been his daily support - through rehab etc etc....it is so hard to not contact him (but I have to respect his wishes - and I have listened to everyones advise on SR).....the sad part for me, is reading peoples comments, is that there seems there is never really hope for a loving, long term relationship with an addict.....can it really never work? We have been friends and loves for so many years...must I really walk away?? I am privately heartbroken!!!!

thislittlelight 07-05-2012 09:04 AM

Lara, I know exactly what you mean. I am kind of in the same boat with the man I love. There is always hope in my opinion. Pray for him, give him space but only you know when what is going on is too much. I know many people in reovery, in relationships who are doing well. People will tell you all kind of things. Listen, and Pray about it. Ask God to guide you. God Bless You !

Learn2Live 07-05-2012 09:12 AM

I have been experiencing a similar situation, though we were together 2 and a half years, not 10. He was the most amazing BF I have ever had, and our plans for the future were beautiful. Then one day, he started to get grouchy. I thought it was stress. He started ignoring me, spending more time away from home, which was unusual. Then, out of the blue, he just did not come home one night, did not call or text. This man never went ANYWHERE without texting, calling, or emailing me. It has been downhill ever since. The limited number of times I have seen him since, he is a completely different person, very cold and mean to me. I know this is because I was the only thing standing between him and the life he wants to live. He is gone from my life. I am struggling to let go. It has been traumatic for me and I am still in shock, cry every day.

I don't think anyone can tell you whether or not there is hope for a future with your BF. What I can tell you is, this is the fourth time I have been through this, been abandoned by an addict for their DOC, and I have learned that the quicker you let go, the sooner the pain passes. I do know there is hope for YOU, and for YOUR life. There is much in this world to see and do. I have learned that "alone" does not have to mean "lonely."

HopefulGF65 07-05-2012 09:47 AM

I'm so sorry you're going through this...(I was with my ex for 2 1/2 years). It sounds like you have your eyes wide open which is a very good thing. It certainly doesn't help the hurt but it will hopefully keep you from delving into the spiral of co-dependency. You're dong the right thing by keeping your distance and now would be a good time to take assessmen of your life and start living it for you and you alone.

Who knows, in time your bf may in fact stick to the program - am I to assume that's what he means when he says he wants to be alone - to concentrate on getting clean? But you can't live holding your breath waiting. I did and another year and a half went by that was much much worse than the first roller coaster ride.

Good luck to you and I hope you stick around.

Limiya 07-05-2012 10:09 AM

I think there is hope, but only when an addict has been working hard at a recovery plan, and continues to. Then i believe there is real hope.
However, we have to remember, that relationships are very difficult to keep on track even without an Addict in our life. Just regular relationships are hard.
So for an Addict who is putting all their energy into staying off drugs, i guess the pressure of a relationship is too much to cope with.

My opinion is keep doing what you're doing. Give him the space he needs until he has real recovery time under his belt, then he might get back in touch when he's ready. If so, great. If he starts using again during this time, then you'll have had some distance there and will be able to keep it.

It's a VERY difficult situation. Good luck. Keep coming here as it's a good support network.

EnglishGarden 07-05-2012 10:17 AM

My feeling is that the only possibility for hope in any relationship with a recovering addict is that the codependent partner reach such a strong, spiritual, grounded place--unshakable in her belief in herself and her right to be treated with love and respect--that WHEN the recovering addict in her life relapses (either into active using or dry drunk out of control selfish and cruel behaviors), she has the immediate ability to separate from the addict and hand his disease right back to him. She does not plead, coddle, weep, or flail. She knows that addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease and by consciously choosing to commit to a long-term relationship with a recovering addict, she has--one hopes-- with absolute clarity, made herself ready for the very high likelihood of relapse in the coming months or years. And when it happens, she has decided that she is woman who can handle it.

Addicts are always teetering on the edge. Any addict who tells you different is someone delusional. Addicts must be ever vigilant, or they will use again, sliding instantly down the oiled slope back to the depths where they were, exactly where they were, when they stopped using.

A codependent who thinks relapse is not a strong possibility is someone not made for relationship with a recovering addict. A codependent who is not a whole person all by herself and who needs the addict in her life so that she can feel complete and worthwhile is not made for relationship with a recovering addict. A codependent who is dependent, who does not possess the required self-confidence and willingness to say "You're out," calmly, with quiet conviction, and no drama, when the addict relapses, is not made for a relationship with a recovering addict.

If a codependent commits to long-term relationship with a recovering addict, she must always have a psychological bag packed and ready. When relapse occurs, she makes a clear, unwavering statement: "You're out." She lives her life and she carries on, with good wishes for the addict to get his act together again. It takes a certain kind of woman to be able to do this.

A codependent is free to wait and see what happens during the relapse, she is free to wait weeks or months or years, but she should never, in my opinion, stew in her misery that the addict did this to HER. She made the commitment to a recovering addict, knowing the risks, and she should be willing to deal with the consequences should he relapse. Relapse is a component of addictive disease.

The questions in relationships with addicts always circle back to who we are. The questions are always about us, not about him.

Lara 07-05-2012 10:31 AM

Dear 'Learntolive' - your words are so true...it is heartbreaking..when your man left you - was it to go back to drugs? Do you know the reason?? Is it really so true that even though they can proclaim to love us with their hearts and soul - that they can turn away? I know how you feel when you say 'you are the only thing between normality' - I panic as I am the one who supports H - I am the only person who can get him into rehab and talk to him openly about his addiction.... and I suppose this is now the challenge - to know when it is time to walk away.... my heart goes out to you too...

Lara 07-05-2012 10:43 AM

Dear 'Englishgarden' your words are powerful and wise and fill me with hope. The unbelievable thing is that my dad (whom I loved and adored - we were business partners, best friends - and mum and dad had been married for 36 years) died as a result of alcoholism. He was a 'functional' alcoholic. 'Functioning' perfectly up until the day he died!!! As a young family we lulled ourselves into a false sense of security and did not accept the obvious. I did not attend any support groups as I believed my family 'were different' and that 'we were coping'. Dad died when I was 27 years old - in my arms! Then my darling gorgeous brother was killed in a car crash a year later. Martin was 23! I believed my life was ending. But my sister and I (and my mum) decided there and then that we chose LIFE. That we would make the most of our lives - and live everyday. That was 9 years ago. Today I am 37! And I believed that I had survived, was untouched by my dad's disease.... only now, from having joined SR do I realise that I was totally scarred and so was my sister. I am trying to educate myself as much as possible to addiction and co-dependency. I have been so aware with the journey with H (my love) NOT to be codependent. To love and support, whilst keeping the boundaries and keeping a safe distance. I thought I was doing all of this. But now, that he is gone (dear God I hope only temporarily) do I realise how damaged I am... that I feel such a sense of loss....
But reading through your words, I can honestly say - that I am PREPARED to take this on! That I love H for all the good and the bad. That I am NOT dependent on him for my happiness...but simply, when H walks into the room - I feel a warm good feeling. My soul feels alive. And I am prepared to walk alongside him on this journey. But I hear your words, that I need to be sure I am adequately armed!!!! I feel I have survived the loss of my gorgeous brother - I can handle this. But where your words have taught me reading this tonight - is to be completely 100% sure that I am not taking this on to be a martyre - that I am NOT a victim - and to be 100% sure of myself - who I am in this world...and to not be defined by H's addiction. And that I cannot cure him or rescue him...but can love him. And when necessary, walk away.

Learn2Live 07-05-2012 10:54 AM

I have no proof other than witnessing his alcholic relapse in January but now that he is gone, looking back I can see the signs of relapse which I did not recognize as they were occurring. So, my answer is, yes, he left to drink and drug. The reason is because he chose to. He's been "partying" for 30 years and had maybe a year and a half clean as far as I could tell, no program. Very hard to stay clean from a 30-year addiction with no program. I think he thought our love and our future would keep him clean; this wouldn't be the first time this has happened with me.

Yes, I believe when they say they love you that they mean it. But I also believe that addiction is the strongest force in this world, stronger than love. Addiction destroys love. I also believe that after a certain point, ALL of their words become, simply, manipulations. They will fool you. They will tell you what they know you want to hear. They are very cunning. They HAVE to be. They know you better than you know yourself. I would take everything he says to you with a grain of salt.

I know you don't want to hear this but when a person "supports" someone in their recovery, IMO that is enabling. If and when a person really WANTS recovery, I believe the only people who can help or support them are people just like them, who are also addicts and alcoholics,(and, of course, those in the addiction recovery profession).

IME, the most loving and kind thing you can do for your BF is go No Contact. Cut him off completely. If he loves you as he says he does, it will hurt him. And it is only in feeling the painful consequences of using that they seek true recovery. If you love him, let him go.

Lara 07-05-2012 10:55 AM

Dear Limiya and Englishgarden.... both of you speak of prayer and spirituality. This resonates very strongly with me....reading about what you both say - the strangest thing has occurred to me - that even though I am heartbroken (H and I have been together for so many years - been through everything together) - but I feel a sense of peace. Peace that I surrender - and peace that I now have time, real time to educate myself properly to this addiction, and time to find out who I really am, and time to pray, and time to think, and time to reflect, and time to must love unconditionally, from a distance.... and I trust God, the Universe, and I am thankful (in a strange way) that H had the 'courage' to be so firm with me - to force me 'out of his life'. I have to respect this too - it hurts like hell - but sometimes there is no 'nice' way to say things to the people you love. I suspect he is hurting and is afraid - and I admire his strength to potentially lose 'everything' in order to fight his addiction. It is still difficult to comprehend that if you love someone so much, why you can't possibly still keep them in your life WHILE battling with recovery - but I now realise, that as the 'non-recovering addict' I cannot possibly comprehend what H is going through... and I thank God for this time apart... and pray we will both grow stronger, and learn to stand on our own two feet, and pray we have a chance to be together again - but that we will both be stronger and be able to support each other better....

Learn2Live 07-05-2012 11:02 AM

Lara, if you want to educate yourself, here are my suggestions:

Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism by James Robert Milam & Katherine Ketcham

Addictive Thinking by Abraham Twerski

Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend

Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

Also, chapter 5 of The Cocaine Recovery Book by Paul Earley, found here: Downloads | Books

I also strongly suggest Al-Anon and/or Nar-Anon

Lara 07-05-2012 11:43 AM

If he loves you as he says he does, it will hurt him. And it is only in feeling the painful consequences of using that they seek true recovery. If you love him, let him go.[/QUOTE]

The above words have hit home, have hit my heart, have hit my soul - these words are the truth.....the true test of love - is if you really do love someone so much you will fight for them and put aside everything else - including addiction....

Thank you!

zoso77 07-05-2012 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by Lara (Post 3475009)
Dear all...I have recently joined SR (and blown away by the support of 'strangers' and the wisdom and willing to share). I joined when my darling love, best friend of 10 years, and who I have been in a serious relationship for the last 7 years - who we have spoken about a future and marriage... who became addicted to cocaine in 2007 - spent 4 months in rehab a year ago - and now has been in recover for a year.... who out of the blue almost 2 weeks ago told me 'I need to pull back, otherwise I won't make it' (H was referring to recover and the possibility of relapsing) - I only know this because he spoke to my sister (whom he is also very close to) - He suddenly one night didn't arrive to take me out to dinner (a first in 10 years) - I called and called but no reply. As the days went by with absolutely no response or phone call (he was still keeping in touch with my sister) - I bumped into him and I asked him to please explain what the matter is...he just started to scream at me "Don't push me - I will tell you when I am ready". I stupidly asked him again and with that he screamed "Get the hell out of my life"!
He called my sister in the morning to say to her that his feelings for me have not changed, that he loves me, but that he needs to focus solely on himself as he wont make it......I find this so frightening, as I am the one who has been his daily support - through rehab etc etc....it is so hard to not contact him (but I have to respect his wishes - and I have listened to everyones advise on SR).....the sad part for me, is reading peoples comments, is that there seems there is never really hope for a loving, long term relationship with an addict.....can it really never work? We have been friends and loves for so many years...must I really walk away?? I am privately heartbroken!!!!

Lara...

There's no easy answer to your question. But, allow me to provide an example.

I met an older guy in Al Anon late last year. His wife for the longest time was a flown blown alcoholic, and during that time he had to take care of everything. Well, she finally decides to clean up her act. She starts changing, maturing, starts becoming assertive in a good way. And he didn't really know what to do with that. So he started going to Al Anon and recognized all the codependent, controlling behaviors he had developed. He started working his program, and in parallel, she was working hers. And now their marriage is solid. When I heard his story, it gave me hope for my own situation with the addict in my life.

Alas, it wasn't to be (my AXGF has Borderline Personality Disorder) and I've since moved on, happily single and concentrating on the things I need to be doing. I don't see myself getting involved with someone for a long, long time.

I guess what I'm saying is if your BF needs a break, he needs a break, and you have to respect that. Give him his space. Focus on yourself and the things you need to be doing in order to be healthy. And, yes, it's a scary thing, letting go. You've invested a lot in him and the relationship. But I would look at this as an opportunity to invest in yourself. To get stronger. To look at yourself and your behaviors or patterns and see what makes you tick.

This doesn't mean stop caring about him. What it does mean is if you love him as much as you say you do, allow him the dignity and the freedom to work on himself. And whatever happens happens. Either way, whether you realize it or not, you're going to be OK.

Trust me on this.

ZoSo

outtolunch 07-05-2012 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by Lara (Post 3475203)

I suspect he is hurting and is afraid - and I admire his strength to potentially lose 'everything' in order to fight his addiction.

Guess I am the Debby Downer, here....

.
I suspect he's relapsed.

lesliej 07-05-2012 09:29 PM

yes...the disappearance and irrational anger reaction are signs of a relapse in my experience.

bobcat2000 07-06-2012 01:28 AM

Lara, I came across your next post. It mirrors exactly what I have been through. You will lose yourself in all this and it will eat you up and start to infect those close to you as all you will think, eat, sleep and breathe is worry. It will put you on an emotional razors edge and at some point in time you will have a nervous breakdown of some description or go ballistic. I know you you say you are strong but trust me here this WILL eat you and spit you out. I am speaking from personal experience and I am not the only one! I did everything as I was promised the world, promised love, promised marriage, you name it. You cannot force anyone to do anything. Unless you see dedicated, determined and committed effort everyday for the rest of their lives and sadly the chances of this are very, very slim as their minds have been infected and altered by chemicals. Sadly brain damage is not reversable and in addicts the brain has aged itself hugely and cells die out quicker than normal, sadly addicts pick up other mental diseases more often than not and depending on their age the chances and risk get higher especially after 35. There is almost no hope. Sorry to be so hard but you sound like a young intelligent woman and my mission in life is to try and save others from the hell they could go through, if just 1 person will listen or be saved by this then it is good. You are not the addict but you will become one in terms of being embroiled in all the darkness that this will bring and the road is full of potholes and hazards and no matter how you drive it your vehicle (you) will break at some point and maybe the damage can be repaired and maybe it won't, and if it is repaired the vehicle will never be 100% right as something will always rattle, be loose. Lara get help forYOU, see a psychologist or a neutral party, you need to heal otherwise you will spend the rest of your life going in and out of relationships and being the victim and the damaged vehicle. The problem with an addict is that they will get worse and will relapse especailly if they have been using soft drugs and hard drugs over a long length of time - this is not just my experience but many others, and I researched, studied the crap out of this that I could probably get a doctrate in it! Does he also have/had a sex addiction and has he had multiple partners during your time with him? I ask this as Lesley did this to me, the one seems to lead to the other and the stupid pathetic thing is I just logically convinced myself it was just the drugs and I gave excuses to her. It becomes a mind destroying, Soul destroying exercise! You said he is your lover? Are you still involved with someone else and do you have any kids, do they know? *I pray not as the fallout, especially with children, will be huge and maybe not now. My youngest daughter was 3 when I got involved with Lesley and my other daughter was not yet born, she was born 5 years later! The lies and deceit I did was ridiculious to my ex wife was mind numbing, it was so unfair that I even had another child with her. She said she always suspected but never really knew for sure as I travelled alot to California on business and that was where I met Lesley, it was an escape for me initially as I was runing away from my own personal insecuraties, past problems and issues that came from having an alcoholic Mum (my Dad and youngest sister died in a car accident that my Mom caused, so mentally screwed me up). I always believed I was stronger than anyone, could take on the world and my wife used to push me to get help, to heal and I just believed she doubted me and my abilaties and I even felt she was ploting against me! I now know she only had my best interests at heart. The long and the short of it was I got embroiled in an escape from reality. Lesley was energy and life and the fun girl, whereas my wife was reality of me and was my mirror, and I did not really like what the mirror reflected. Lesley was a mere reflection and a fun one, little did I know the hell to come from the mental anguish, the physical breakdown of me, the loss of my family and my real and geniune love, my wife, the damage to my daughters who are older now - my youngest who is now in her teens battles with her existance as she feels that when she was conceived it was just sex not love that brought her into being and has said if I truly did love her mother I would have done everything to be a family, my eldest is another whole story and her anger is unmatched. I thank God that my ex has strong beliefs and resolve and is incistant in my daughters having help and getting strong faith, she amazes me that she is allowing me back into her life and has even said that in time will consider a life as a family again but I still have much therapy and much to answer for. The good news is I am healing, I am getting better each day and am learning to leave the past in the past. I will always love Lesley with all my heart but she was a lesson, a gift from God in a sense as without her I would not have discovered who I really am and how I came to understand why family is the only thing that matters. * In closing young Lara, I will pray for you, H, your family, your life and that God will give you the courage and resolve to move on and get past this chapter in your life and become a complete person.

Learn2Live 07-06-2012 04:21 AM

" if you really do love someone so much you will fight for them and put aside everything else - including addiction"
Lara, one cannot put aside addiction. It NEVER goes away. It will NEVER go away. He will always be an addict and every day of his life will ALWAYS be focused on To Use or Not To Use. You, and everyone who decides to be in his life, will always be second to the addiction, whether he seeks Recovery or not.

Lara 07-06-2012 10:11 AM

Dearest Bobcat.... I read with awe your message. I thank you from my heart for sharing this with me...and for the time to send such a long message...I hear your words and I accept them... I say 'lover' as I mean partner...we don't live in the same country - but see each other every 3 weeks. But as of next year we will be living in the same country...No, I have not been with anyone else in 5 years.... but I was married once..and have a beautiful 5 year old boy!!!! Who I know I need to put first (I always have) but as you can see, I have seriously considered a future and life with H.... but reading messages like from yourself - my eyes are open - for the first time - as to the reality of this disease...
God bless you too!

bobcat2000 07-06-2012 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by Lara (Post 3476712)
Dearest Bobcat.... I read with awe your message. I thank you from my heart for sharing this with me...and for the time to send such a long message...I hear your words and I accept them... I say 'lover' as I mean partner...we don't live in the same country - but see each other every 3 weeks. But as of next year we will be living in the same country...No, I have not been with anyone else in 5 years.... but I was married once..and have a beautiful 5 year old boy!!!! Who I know I need to put first (I always have) but as you can see, I have seriously considered a future and life with H.... but reading messages like from yourself - my eyes are open - for the first time - as to the reality of this disease...
God bless you too!

Just saw your reply. You are not accepting anything. Denial is going to destroy you and your son! You are planning on moving countries to be with the addict, you are removing your son from what he knows. You say you have not been with anyone in 5 years? Where is the boys father. Lara you are in denial and I do not know how to put this any other way but you going to f..ck up your life and that of your sons for what? For a small possibility, forma fantasy of an addict becoming normal? Think about when your son is a young man, how will he be? Will the infection of you being addicted to the addict have hurt him... I strongly urge you not to go on this path. You will lose yourself and later on your son! I know as I have walked this path and many others. This will destroy you and particularly your son!

bobcat2000 07-06-2012 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by bobcat2000 (Post 3477016)
Just saw your reply. You are not accepting anything. Denial is going to destroy you and your son! You are planning on moving countries to be with the addict, you are removing your son from what he knows. You say you have not been with anyone in 5 years? Where is the boys father. Lara you are in denial and I do not know how to put this any other way but you going to f..ck up your life and that of your sons for what? For a small possibility, forma fantasy of an addict becoming normal? Think about when your son is a young man, how will he be? Will the infection of you being addicted to the addict have hurt him... I strongly urge you not to go on this path. You will lose yourself and later on your son! I know as I have walked this path and many others. This will destroy you and particularly your son!

I rethought my post...

Just saw your reply. You are not accepting anything. Denial is going to destroy you and your son! You are planning on moving countries to be with the addict, you are removing your son from what he knows. You say you have not been with anyone in 5 years but you have, you have been with an addict for the last 7 - 10years?? I am confused? Where is the boys father? Obviously not H`s or is he? Lara you are in denial and I do not know how to put this any other way but you going to f..ck up your life and that of your sons for what? For a small possibility, for a fantasy of an addict becoming normal? Think about when your son is a young man, how will he be, he like my daughter will have much anger and it without a doubt will bite you as it did me! Will the infection of you being addicted to the addict have hurt him... absolutely. I strongly urge you not to go on this path. You say you put your son first? From what I am reading you are putting him last! I am taking a flyer here but I guess your marriage disolved due to much of this and it seems you did what I did, have an affair with an addict whilst having a child with someone else being your husband, why did you do that... alot of research indicates addicts can become infertile, so I am guessing H could not provide a child so you got your then husband to help (unknowingly) and then divorced him when the child was born? My God Lara you really are heading down a slippery path and fast... H has total control of you and I am sorry to say you are the addict to all this. You WILL *lose yourself and later on your son! I know as I have walked this path... Young Lara, get help for you and fast and give your son the greatest gift in his life and walk away urgently from all this madness. I already see the codependcy pattern and how deeply the addiction of the addicts deception has parasitically entered you. Trust me in this, please, do not move countries to be closer to H as he will kill you by installment and later on your son will have nothing to do with you. If you love H as you say you do then do not allow any opportunity for him to use you as his crutch his deception funnel! All this darkness you are going into can be stopped but you must act quickly as from what I have read you may lose yourself very soon!


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