Seeking help for me in the aftermath
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 452
F&F,
I've read only your post and not the responses yet, so forgive me if my comments are redundant or otherwise inapplicable. I wholeheartedly understand your desire to support your friend, and think you should continue to do so. The one thing I would recommend, though, is that he not move back into your home after he is released. He should find a decent sober living house (SLE), and if you want, you can research it too and give him suggestions. It is too hard to live with an addict who is just beginning recovery (again), and living with you is probably not the best way to support his recovery, either. You can't be around all the time, and believe me, you don't want to attempt to police his recovery. It is likely to divide you two, rather than bring you closer together. You will inevitably be mistrustful, and if he uses again, he will lie. You're not going to want to make him submit to drug tests ... and yet you WILL want to because you know you can't believe him if he relapses. It will just be a mess. Also, he is likely to be stronger in his recovery if he is living with other people who are also working hard at recovery, and where there are rules and structure that focus on recovery. YOU don't want to be the person imposing such rules, and yet he will NEED that structure to stay clean, at least in the beginning.
So that's my two cents - I think you both will be happier if he goes into an SLE for awhile, and you can be supportive of him and meet with him for chats and such while he's there. Best for BOTH of you if he not live with you for awhile.
I've read only your post and not the responses yet, so forgive me if my comments are redundant or otherwise inapplicable. I wholeheartedly understand your desire to support your friend, and think you should continue to do so. The one thing I would recommend, though, is that he not move back into your home after he is released. He should find a decent sober living house (SLE), and if you want, you can research it too and give him suggestions. It is too hard to live with an addict who is just beginning recovery (again), and living with you is probably not the best way to support his recovery, either. You can't be around all the time, and believe me, you don't want to attempt to police his recovery. It is likely to divide you two, rather than bring you closer together. You will inevitably be mistrustful, and if he uses again, he will lie. You're not going to want to make him submit to drug tests ... and yet you WILL want to because you know you can't believe him if he relapses. It will just be a mess. Also, he is likely to be stronger in his recovery if he is living with other people who are also working hard at recovery, and where there are rules and structure that focus on recovery. YOU don't want to be the person imposing such rules, and yet he will NEED that structure to stay clean, at least in the beginning.
So that's my two cents - I think you both will be happier if he goes into an SLE for awhile, and you can be supportive of him and meet with him for chats and such while he's there. Best for BOTH of you if he not live with you for awhile.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Support comes in many forms.......
Sometimes it's a gentle hug
Sometimes it's a brutal truth that someone doesn't want to hear
Sometimes it's just listening
Sometimes it's simply sharing our own experience
But what support isn't is telling someone only what they want to hear......
Addicts aren't bad people.....but they are sick people. And sometimes sick people do bad things. That is the unfortunate nature of this cunning and baffling disease.
As long as you are honest with your mother, recognize that his recovery belongs to him, and you watch out for the best interest of you and your small child first and foremost........do what you feel is best. If it works out, I will be happy with you. If it doesn't, we will be here to provide support to you in the best way that we know how......
gentle hugs
ke
Sometimes it's a gentle hug
Sometimes it's a brutal truth that someone doesn't want to hear
Sometimes it's just listening
Sometimes it's simply sharing our own experience
But what support isn't is telling someone only what they want to hear......
Addicts aren't bad people.....but they are sick people. And sometimes sick people do bad things. That is the unfortunate nature of this cunning and baffling disease.
As long as you are honest with your mother, recognize that his recovery belongs to him, and you watch out for the best interest of you and your small child first and foremost........do what you feel is best. If it works out, I will be happy with you. If it doesn't, we will be here to provide support to you in the best way that we know how......
gentle hugs
ke
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 18
I'm not certain what I've said that everyone keeps telling me to stay out of his battle. I'm sorry if I'm not understanding what you all are telling me. But basically all I'm hearing is that I basically need to carve him out of my life completely. Other then giving him a place to pay his rent to every month, I haven't supported him in any other way. Although I should amend that to include my mother, but since that topic has been broached as of this morning, I'll no longer include that. Nor am I making any sort of *cushy* landing. I am mad and he knows it. He knows he'll have to try to make up for the things he's done.
However, in my faith, I am a forgiver. I forgive transgressions in order to move forward in my own life. However, if you repeat the same mistakes you will be forgiven but excluded from my life. That to me is not a cushy landing, that is a small part of being a follower of Christ.
But I don't need people to keep telling me that this isn't my battle and that I cannot affect the outcome. I KNOW those things already.
What I don't know is how to be a proper friend when he is post-rehab. Distance with love. Got it. But I refuse to not be there for him, unless he tries to be dependent or if he falls back into active addiction. I have lines that I won't cross.
QUESTIONS:
1. Will it help him to go with him to open group therapies if he's requested me to go with him?
2. Is it helpful to take him to Church with me? I can't see how trying church would ever be a bad thing as long as its not forced, but I also don't want to add new pressures to the ones he's created for himself.
3. Is it okay to ask questions about his recovery or should I just let him talk to me about those things when he's ready?
4. Is there hope for an addict in recovery to live a productive life? He did for some time before he relapsed. It seems a lot of the people who have responded show that there isn't. So does that mean I shouldn't even attempt to maintain some type of modified friendship in fear that if he does relapse or kill myself, that I can protect myself?
However, in my faith, I am a forgiver. I forgive transgressions in order to move forward in my own life. However, if you repeat the same mistakes you will be forgiven but excluded from my life. That to me is not a cushy landing, that is a small part of being a follower of Christ.
But I don't need people to keep telling me that this isn't my battle and that I cannot affect the outcome. I KNOW those things already.
What I don't know is how to be a proper friend when he is post-rehab. Distance with love. Got it. But I refuse to not be there for him, unless he tries to be dependent or if he falls back into active addiction. I have lines that I won't cross.
QUESTIONS:
1. Will it help him to go with him to open group therapies if he's requested me to go with him?
2. Is it helpful to take him to Church with me? I can't see how trying church would ever be a bad thing as long as its not forced, but I also don't want to add new pressures to the ones he's created for himself.
3. Is it okay to ask questions about his recovery or should I just let him talk to me about those things when he's ready?
4. Is there hope for an addict in recovery to live a productive life? He did for some time before he relapsed. It seems a lot of the people who have responded show that there isn't. So does that mean I shouldn't even attempt to maintain some type of modified friendship in fear that if he does relapse or kill myself, that I can protect myself?
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 452
F&F, I am not counseling you to carve him out of your life or not be there for him while he's working on recovery. I understand your desire to be supportive; it comes from a kind and loving place. The question is how best to support him, and I think that is what you are asking.
Like you, I wanted to do anything and everything possible for the addict in my life. As often happens with addicts, my life became consumed with "what can I do to help you?" But I think that in helping addicts achieve recovery, less is more. Often part of what keeps addicts mired in their addiction are feelings of inadequacy and lack of self worth. You don't help him feel competent and strong by running to the rescue or getting intimately involved in the details of his recovery. You can be supportive, but not in the middle of it.
I said this earlier and I can't stress it strongly enough -- don't let him move back into your home after he is released from his detox/rehab. This is not good for HIM, or for you and the rest of your family. Your mother and child are EVERY BIT AS IMPORTANT as he is, and you need to balance their needs against what you perceive to be the needs of your addict friend. It would be best FOR HIM to move into an SLE, as well as for your relationship with him. You mentioned that he will do this if it is covered by insurance. It probably won't be, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. If he can't afford it and you feel the need to be supportive, offer to pay for the SLE for a few weeks until he gets a job. One tip about that - the SLE might give you the option of paying for a full month or week-by-week. Take the week-by-week option, as if he relapses and is thrown out, you might not get your money back. Most SLE's help their residents with the job search effort, so it is likely that he will find work soon and be able to pay the rent himself at that point.
I don't question your devotion to your friend; I too felt drawn to be supportive of the addict in my life after being closely involved with him for only a short time. You've mentioned church and prayer, and I suspect that (like I did) you may feel that the powerful urge you feel to help this person is spiritually driven. OK. But realize that you help most by not taking control and not being involved in all the intimate details. If HE wants you to go to open meetings, and you want to go, then I don't see the harm. If HE wants to go to church with you, why not? Just make sure that on the recovery front, HE is leading and you are truly just a cheerleader, not attempting to be the driver. It's easier to do this if you keep balance in your own life - doing things with your friends, working, enjoying activities with your daughter APART from your addict friend. You will need to work at NOT becoming consumed with him and his recovery, as if you do, it is bad for both him AND you.
Like you, I wanted to do anything and everything possible for the addict in my life. As often happens with addicts, my life became consumed with "what can I do to help you?" But I think that in helping addicts achieve recovery, less is more. Often part of what keeps addicts mired in their addiction are feelings of inadequacy and lack of self worth. You don't help him feel competent and strong by running to the rescue or getting intimately involved in the details of his recovery. You can be supportive, but not in the middle of it.
I said this earlier and I can't stress it strongly enough -- don't let him move back into your home after he is released from his detox/rehab. This is not good for HIM, or for you and the rest of your family. Your mother and child are EVERY BIT AS IMPORTANT as he is, and you need to balance their needs against what you perceive to be the needs of your addict friend. It would be best FOR HIM to move into an SLE, as well as for your relationship with him. You mentioned that he will do this if it is covered by insurance. It probably won't be, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. If he can't afford it and you feel the need to be supportive, offer to pay for the SLE for a few weeks until he gets a job. One tip about that - the SLE might give you the option of paying for a full month or week-by-week. Take the week-by-week option, as if he relapses and is thrown out, you might not get your money back. Most SLE's help their residents with the job search effort, so it is likely that he will find work soon and be able to pay the rent himself at that point.
I don't question your devotion to your friend; I too felt drawn to be supportive of the addict in my life after being closely involved with him for only a short time. You've mentioned church and prayer, and I suspect that (like I did) you may feel that the powerful urge you feel to help this person is spiritually driven. OK. But realize that you help most by not taking control and not being involved in all the intimate details. If HE wants you to go to open meetings, and you want to go, then I don't see the harm. If HE wants to go to church with you, why not? Just make sure that on the recovery front, HE is leading and you are truly just a cheerleader, not attempting to be the driver. It's easier to do this if you keep balance in your own life - doing things with your friends, working, enjoying activities with your daughter APART from your addict friend. You will need to work at NOT becoming consumed with him and his recovery, as if you do, it is bad for both him AND you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 18
wow, that is a great point. That I can see loud and clear.
I *think* I meant would it be good for our friendship. He needs the meetings and I cannot affect the outcome. Hopefully it was not a subconscious effort to help him. But that is something I will need to look into a bit further.
But essentially Would it be beneficial for our friendship if I attended meetings? Could it impact him negatively if I go with him to something that could be so personal, even if he seems to want me to go? I would assume not, but like I said I've never gone through this part of recovery with a friend before.
By taking him to church with me, I feel like it would be a comfort to have a friend on his side, but it could open him up to the world of the God I believe in and perhaps show him the strength God gives me to get through each day. In that sense, yes I am involving myself, but it is up to him to either continue to go or not and whether or not he gets anything out of it. I just want to expose him to a faith that can impact him in a positive way. I'm just not sure if that adds pressure to him or not.
And asking about his recovery is for my sake, not his. I just don't know if its such a personal thing, that I should ask about. I ask about my friends welfare every day regardless of what they may be suffering. I'm just not sure if it changes because he is early in his recovery.
Is that explained any better? Hopefully it is. Thank you anvilhead for pointing that out to me. I also hope I've understood you correctly this time around.
I *think* I meant would it be good for our friendship. He needs the meetings and I cannot affect the outcome. Hopefully it was not a subconscious effort to help him. But that is something I will need to look into a bit further.
But essentially Would it be beneficial for our friendship if I attended meetings? Could it impact him negatively if I go with him to something that could be so personal, even if he seems to want me to go? I would assume not, but like I said I've never gone through this part of recovery with a friend before.
By taking him to church with me, I feel like it would be a comfort to have a friend on his side, but it could open him up to the world of the God I believe in and perhaps show him the strength God gives me to get through each day. In that sense, yes I am involving myself, but it is up to him to either continue to go or not and whether or not he gets anything out of it. I just want to expose him to a faith that can impact him in a positive way. I'm just not sure if that adds pressure to him or not.
And asking about his recovery is for my sake, not his. I just don't know if its such a personal thing, that I should ask about. I ask about my friends welfare every day regardless of what they may be suffering. I'm just not sure if it changes because he is early in his recovery.
Is that explained any better? Hopefully it is. Thank you anvilhead for pointing that out to me. I also hope I've understood you correctly this time around.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
The core problem I see is that your view of the truth is based on what a heroin addict has told you.
He told you--his mother told you--he had been clean a year before he wound up in the ER of a heroin overdose. We here will tell you that it is about 99% likely that he has been on heroin without any significant clean time for years, and like all heroin addicts, eventually landed in the ER and his using was blown wide open.
Your history with this man:
-Met on a DATING SITE
-He was CHALLENGING and DIFFERENT
-He was KICKED OUT of his residence by his SPONSOR
-He finessed his way INTO YOUR HOME (by the way, allowing ANY man you DO NOT KNOW to live with your four year old DAUGHTER is DANGEROUS beyond belief---please please wake up).
-He STOLE from your FAMILY.
-He SHOT hardcore DRUGS in YOUR HOME.
I am capitalizing for effect, so the picture is clearer, not to be aggressive.
He's maybe moving back in any day now.
And you are wondering whether or not you should go to group and church with him.
Do not go to group with him. Do not take him to church. Do not talk to him about his recovery because he will LIE TO YOU. Do not let a man with a hardcore drug history and a past of which you know nothing live with YOUR FEMALE CHILD.
I have a feeling you will not hear these words but for the sake of your child will send them anyway.
Please see a counselor for six months before you make any decision about moving an active drug addict whom you met on a dating site back into your family. Please make him live elsewhere for six months. During that time, all the information you need will come to you, by the grace of God.
You are very mixed up about your faith and your responsibility to him and your responsibility to your little child. See a counselor and get it worked out.
He told you--his mother told you--he had been clean a year before he wound up in the ER of a heroin overdose. We here will tell you that it is about 99% likely that he has been on heroin without any significant clean time for years, and like all heroin addicts, eventually landed in the ER and his using was blown wide open.
Your history with this man:
-Met on a DATING SITE
-He was CHALLENGING and DIFFERENT
-He was KICKED OUT of his residence by his SPONSOR
-He finessed his way INTO YOUR HOME (by the way, allowing ANY man you DO NOT KNOW to live with your four year old DAUGHTER is DANGEROUS beyond belief---please please wake up).
-He STOLE from your FAMILY.
-He SHOT hardcore DRUGS in YOUR HOME.
I am capitalizing for effect, so the picture is clearer, not to be aggressive.
He's maybe moving back in any day now.
And you are wondering whether or not you should go to group and church with him.
Do not go to group with him. Do not take him to church. Do not talk to him about his recovery because he will LIE TO YOU. Do not let a man with a hardcore drug history and a past of which you know nothing live with YOUR FEMALE CHILD.
I have a feeling you will not hear these words but for the sake of your child will send them anyway.
Please see a counselor for six months before you make any decision about moving an active drug addict whom you met on a dating site back into your family. Please make him live elsewhere for six months. During that time, all the information you need will come to you, by the grace of God.
You are very mixed up about your faith and your responsibility to him and your responsibility to your little child. See a counselor and get it worked out.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 18
@ Anvilhead, if his choice was the gym, and he asked me to go I would. If I didn't go with him, I would still ask about how it went and if he feels good about it. I would also in turn ask how his day was and if he did anything he was excited about. The same as I would for any other friend. Especially the ones that go to the gym. haha, when they ask me to go along I always dread it, but they are very happy to tell me what they've increased their weights too or how long they're able to jog for. Its self-improvement and they should be proud of any positive steps in their life no matter how minor.
I understand that anything he says has to be taken with some salt. Regardless of drug use, their are 3 sides to any story and sometimes more then that. I'll never know the truth of anything except of what happens in my own life and my own actions.
Yes he is still in rehab and will be for awhile. I've already left him a message to call me when he gets the chance to use the phones. We already speak at nearly every opportunity that presents itself. He likes to share his improvements and is able to share some of his downfalls as he goes through them in rehab. He has already asked that once he is out of rehab, that when I'm available, if I would attend meetings with him. And I've asked him to church. This is not written in stone, but its something.
In my eyes, it looks as if he wants to take care of himself, and seems to want to show me and share that information with me. Not as if hes grabbing at me for something that he knows I can't give. He isn't asking me for help or assistance.
He'll either call tonight or tomorrow, and I'm going to talk with him about going to a SLE. That its the best thing for his chance for a successful recovery. Which I'm sure at this point is already on his mind, or soon will be, as I believe he has a few more weeks in rehab regardless and I can't imagine that not being part of his individual therapy and some part of making a plan to stay clean.
I understand that anything he says has to be taken with some salt. Regardless of drug use, their are 3 sides to any story and sometimes more then that. I'll never know the truth of anything except of what happens in my own life and my own actions.
Yes he is still in rehab and will be for awhile. I've already left him a message to call me when he gets the chance to use the phones. We already speak at nearly every opportunity that presents itself. He likes to share his improvements and is able to share some of his downfalls as he goes through them in rehab. He has already asked that once he is out of rehab, that when I'm available, if I would attend meetings with him. And I've asked him to church. This is not written in stone, but its something.
In my eyes, it looks as if he wants to take care of himself, and seems to want to show me and share that information with me. Not as if hes grabbing at me for something that he knows I can't give. He isn't asking me for help or assistance.
He'll either call tonight or tomorrow, and I'm going to talk with him about going to a SLE. That its the best thing for his chance for a successful recovery. Which I'm sure at this point is already on his mind, or soon will be, as I believe he has a few more weeks in rehab regardless and I can't imagine that not being part of his individual therapy and some part of making a plan to stay clean.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
My son is a 22 year old heroin addict. I moved a few months ago and didn't even tell him my new address. And I am on speaking terms with him! I am just protecting myself because I know that a heroin addict is capable of some very desperate moves.
I KNOW heroin addicts. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would allow one into my home, much less give him a KEY.
I support my son when he is in recovery by offering encouragement and being a sounding board....and THAT'S IT. I pray for him because I am a Christian and that is the extent of my 'duty' in that regard. He is in rehab now and when he gets out he will be moving into a sober living facility...in a city 200 miles from me.
If I put that much distance between me and my son (whom I adore).... shouldn't that tell you something??
I"m sorry -- this is going to sound very harsh -- but you should be ashamed to even consider allowing your small child to be in such a dangerous situation. You appear to be more concerned for this STRANGER than you are for your own child. If you knew anything about the reality of heroin addiction, AND if you were any kind of decent mother, you would never let this happen. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I believe you are simply naive and your Christian values have misguided you in this case. I believe your intentions are good....but I beg you to reconsider.
I KNOW heroin addicts. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would allow one into my home, much less give him a KEY.
I support my son when he is in recovery by offering encouragement and being a sounding board....and THAT'S IT. I pray for him because I am a Christian and that is the extent of my 'duty' in that regard. He is in rehab now and when he gets out he will be moving into a sober living facility...in a city 200 miles from me.
If I put that much distance between me and my son (whom I adore).... shouldn't that tell you something??
I"m sorry -- this is going to sound very harsh -- but you should be ashamed to even consider allowing your small child to be in such a dangerous situation. You appear to be more concerned for this STRANGER than you are for your own child. If you knew anything about the reality of heroin addiction, AND if you were any kind of decent mother, you would never let this happen. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I believe you are simply naive and your Christian values have misguided you in this case. I believe your intentions are good....but I beg you to reconsider.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Originally Posted by forsakenforgive 
Also I'd like to point out, my friends who i could not bear to stay by their side through the rehab and initial post-rehab homes, are still my friends today. A few relapsed and only one lost my friendship completely from his inability to stick with recovery. None of my friends were in rehab for 'simple' drugs. All were in for heroin use, soboxine abuse, and/or prescription medications.
I have seen some of the later stages of recovery and acknowledge that they will be in recovery for the rest of their lives.
I've gone to them for advice, and they agree that staying by him in his time of need is a great thing as long as I am able to keep myself in a reality check. But I needed someone who is not directly suffering from the disease of addiction to give some input which is again why I came here.
So please, if you can, offer advice on how to be the best kind of friend someone who wants to recover needs.
I have seen some of the later stages of recovery and acknowledge that they will be in recovery for the rest of their lives.
I've gone to them for advice, and they agree that staying by him in his time of need is a great thing as long as I am able to keep myself in a reality check. But I needed someone who is not directly suffering from the disease of addiction to give some input which is again why I came here.
So please, if you can, offer advice on how to be the best kind of friend someone who wants to recover needs.
perhaps his mom would take him in. if she wont, there is a good reason.
if you get in between him hitting his bottom, that is not good for him. Perhaps let him figure out his own problems. They are not your problems. What if he does drugs in your home, and causes a tragedy there?
watch from afar, and let him take care of his own recovery. you dont owe him anything, even as a friend.
When he does something again, in your home, will you prosecute? would you take a known thief in to live with you, if he robbed your home? many of them are also drug addicts looking for money for their fix. how is he different, i am sorry to ask?
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 18
Its not that I'm not concerned for my child. But I came here about his post-rehab recovery. About things I can do to help myself and be supportive and encouraging without enabling him.
Thank you for assuming that I am a terrible mother, and that she hasn't been at the forefront of every decision I am trying to make. I'm not as experienced in this as you all are and your harsh words have only made it harder for me to listen to your words. I am attempting to do the best thing for my family and maintain a friendship.
Of course I'm worried about losing my friend, but I am not afraid to cut ties with someone if they insist on destroying themselves. It wouldn't be my first time.
I feel like the only thing I'm doing here is falling even farther away from wanting help from this forum. I hear you all. I'm telling you I'm trying to adjust my thoughts and make sure I do whats best. Not just for HIM. But for ME and MY FAMILY. Quite frankly I feel attacked. Its like no one seems to be hearing me, or even attempt to understand where I'm coming from. You were all in my place at some point. New to being around an addict, and were scared. Feeling isolated and not sure where to go.
I'm not asking to be coddled but I don't appreciate being spoken to as if I'm trying to NOT listen. I've approached my mother, I'm making the attempt to see him in a SLE, and all the while I'm trying to find answers about being a good friend without exacting a complete excommunication of my friend from my life.
Being here has shown me a few places I lacked giving enough focus too, and I appreciate that. But its not necessary to be so harsh. A simple explanation of your thoughts would have sufficed.
Thank you for what points you were trying to make, and I'll be sure to find a different source of encouragement of the best ways to support without enabling.
Thank you for assuming that I am a terrible mother, and that she hasn't been at the forefront of every decision I am trying to make. I'm not as experienced in this as you all are and your harsh words have only made it harder for me to listen to your words. I am attempting to do the best thing for my family and maintain a friendship.
Of course I'm worried about losing my friend, but I am not afraid to cut ties with someone if they insist on destroying themselves. It wouldn't be my first time.
I feel like the only thing I'm doing here is falling even farther away from wanting help from this forum. I hear you all. I'm telling you I'm trying to adjust my thoughts and make sure I do whats best. Not just for HIM. But for ME and MY FAMILY. Quite frankly I feel attacked. Its like no one seems to be hearing me, or even attempt to understand where I'm coming from. You were all in my place at some point. New to being around an addict, and were scared. Feeling isolated and not sure where to go.
I'm not asking to be coddled but I don't appreciate being spoken to as if I'm trying to NOT listen. I've approached my mother, I'm making the attempt to see him in a SLE, and all the while I'm trying to find answers about being a good friend without exacting a complete excommunication of my friend from my life.
Being here has shown me a few places I lacked giving enough focus too, and I appreciate that. But its not necessary to be so harsh. A simple explanation of your thoughts would have sufficed.
Thank you for what points you were trying to make, and I'll be sure to find a different source of encouragement of the best ways to support without enabling.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sunshine, Sea Breeze & Palm Trees
Posts: 282
forsaken,
What are you getting out of this "friendship"??
Are you hoping for a relationship down the road with this person?
I could be wrong, but I think that women dont try this hard with people who screw us over without something else involved in the agenda.
I dont understand why you are trying to maintain this friendship. What are you getting out of?
What are you getting out of this "friendship"??
Are you hoping for a relationship down the road with this person?
I could be wrong, but I think that women dont try this hard with people who screw us over without something else involved in the agenda.
I dont understand why you are trying to maintain this friendship. What are you getting out of?
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 720
I am coming to this a bit late but wanted to mention that it is a good rule of thumb to make sure you are not exerting more energy on his recovery than he is. I stop occasionally and reassess to make sure about that myself frequently.
The rehab will discuss with him a plan for his continued recovery before he leaves. In fact normally this is part of their program. You may want to sit back and wait for him to describe to you what his plan is.....you have some time and really do not need to address the living situation right now do you? Let him lead; I don't it is helpful for you to be driving this. Then you can discuss what works for you and your family within the context of his plan. Frankly I would be surprised if he thinks he is moving back in with you after all that happened.
What you are seeing as "harshness" is caring and wanting to help you see clearly some things that could be very damaging for you, your daughter and mother. The comments and observations are based on a wealth of personal experience too. Take what you can use now.....save the others for later when you are ready.
The rehab will discuss with him a plan for his continued recovery before he leaves. In fact normally this is part of their program. You may want to sit back and wait for him to describe to you what his plan is.....you have some time and really do not need to address the living situation right now do you? Let him lead; I don't it is helpful for you to be driving this. Then you can discuss what works for you and your family within the context of his plan. Frankly I would be surprised if he thinks he is moving back in with you after all that happened.
What you are seeing as "harshness" is caring and wanting to help you see clearly some things that could be very damaging for you, your daughter and mother. The comments and observations are based on a wealth of personal experience too. Take what you can use now.....save the others for later when you are ready.
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I was getting friendship prior to his relapse. He was honest, and he took me out. We would watch movies and just relax together. Play video games, and just talk about life.
I'm only friends with men, I find very few women that share similar interests or that don't back stab in some degree. That being said, if you had a friend, who you knew had a background, but didn't seem to shift into this 'new' persona until he relapsed, wouldn't you want your friend back?
I want his friendship back. He was fun (safe sober fun, like hiking and movies etc), and enjoyable. I have many friends, and I can live my life without him. But he seems to want to earn my friendship back as much as I want it. I know he can't be an actual friend for a long time coming as all his focus needs to be on himself, but it seems worth the wait to me.
I've never been an addict, but I've had my fair share of problems in life and had burned nearly every bridge I had. The few that stuck around and waited it out are still some of my closest friends. I don't know how to cope with this particular disease as I've never been in a stable enough place in my mind to even consider it.
Prior to coming to this forum, I was confidant that if he actually wants his sobriety and achieves it and sticks with his recovery that we could be real friends again down the line. But reading all of these responses it seems that it wont be possible, that there is no hope. And the only thing to do is to cut him out of my life completely while he tries to find himself again.
For some reason, that just doesn't seem right. Not in the sense of morality, but in that some of my friends who are in recovery and have been for a few years are people I am close with now. Their number 1 priority is their sobriety and to state for clarity, I'm not seeking to be number 1 in any relationship I'm in. I am seeking an equal friendship of listening back and forth, and someone who can enjoy life with me the same way I do with the rest of my friends.
I'm only friends with men, I find very few women that share similar interests or that don't back stab in some degree. That being said, if you had a friend, who you knew had a background, but didn't seem to shift into this 'new' persona until he relapsed, wouldn't you want your friend back?
I want his friendship back. He was fun (safe sober fun, like hiking and movies etc), and enjoyable. I have many friends, and I can live my life without him. But he seems to want to earn my friendship back as much as I want it. I know he can't be an actual friend for a long time coming as all his focus needs to be on himself, but it seems worth the wait to me.
I've never been an addict, but I've had my fair share of problems in life and had burned nearly every bridge I had. The few that stuck around and waited it out are still some of my closest friends. I don't know how to cope with this particular disease as I've never been in a stable enough place in my mind to even consider it.
Prior to coming to this forum, I was confidant that if he actually wants his sobriety and achieves it and sticks with his recovery that we could be real friends again down the line. But reading all of these responses it seems that it wont be possible, that there is no hope. And the only thing to do is to cut him out of my life completely while he tries to find himself again.
For some reason, that just doesn't seem right. Not in the sense of morality, but in that some of my friends who are in recovery and have been for a few years are people I am close with now. Their number 1 priority is their sobriety and to state for clarity, I'm not seeking to be number 1 in any relationship I'm in. I am seeking an equal friendship of listening back and forth, and someone who can enjoy life with me the same way I do with the rest of my friends.
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F&F, I am friends with two recovering heroin addicts, both of whom have been clean for about two years. They are very serious about their recovery programs - it is a huge part of their lives. One of them leads an NA group. Both are kind, humble, open, honest, and introspective -- all attributes that I think are hallmarks of someone strongly working a 12-step program. And both had to hit a bottom that would curl your hair before they finally were able to sustain recovery. Both did rehab a number of times; both relapsed plenty of times. One has been in jail twice, including theft and gun charges. The other was literally dead for several minutes - flat-lined - due to an overdose.
Heroin addicts can recover, but it would be wise to keep some emotional distance between you and your friend because of the potential danger to you, your family, and your home. Maybe he will come out of this rehab, strongly work a program, and be able to stay sober. But statistics aren't encouraging - sustained recoveries are in the 12-15% range, I believe.
I am not telling you to kick this person out of your life at this point. He is in rehab and trying to get clean, and I think it's OK to be supportive of that. But recognize that there is a very big risk of relapse - the odds favor it - and relapse means behavior that would be damaging and perhaps dangerous to you, your home, and your family. Active heroin addicts lie, manipulate, cheat, betray, and steal. They pretty much ALL do, even if they never thought they would and even if they don't want to. It's part of the disease.
This is why you really should not have him move back in with you. This is why you should make sure you maintain a life (friends, activities, etc) apart from him. Interact with him, too, just don't allow him to become too much a part of your life. Keep some emotional and physical distance to protect yourself against the very strong possibility that he will relapse. And once he's out, be on guard against the possibility that he has already relapsed but you just don't know it. In other words, don't give him a key to your place. Don't give him money. That kind of thing. Protect yourself against the reality of heroin addiction, even as you offer him moral support in his efforts to be in recovery.
Heroin addicts can recover, but it would be wise to keep some emotional distance between you and your friend because of the potential danger to you, your family, and your home. Maybe he will come out of this rehab, strongly work a program, and be able to stay sober. But statistics aren't encouraging - sustained recoveries are in the 12-15% range, I believe.
I am not telling you to kick this person out of your life at this point. He is in rehab and trying to get clean, and I think it's OK to be supportive of that. But recognize that there is a very big risk of relapse - the odds favor it - and relapse means behavior that would be damaging and perhaps dangerous to you, your home, and your family. Active heroin addicts lie, manipulate, cheat, betray, and steal. They pretty much ALL do, even if they never thought they would and even if they don't want to. It's part of the disease.
This is why you really should not have him move back in with you. This is why you should make sure you maintain a life (friends, activities, etc) apart from him. Interact with him, too, just don't allow him to become too much a part of your life. Keep some emotional and physical distance to protect yourself against the very strong possibility that he will relapse. And once he's out, be on guard against the possibility that he has already relapsed but you just don't know it. In other words, don't give him a key to your place. Don't give him money. That kind of thing. Protect yourself against the reality of heroin addiction, even as you offer him moral support in his efforts to be in recovery.
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[QUOTE=forsakenforgive;3472564]I was getting friendship prior to his relapse. He was honest, and he took me out. We would watch movies and just relax together. Play video games, and just talk about life.
Honey, he was not honest, he stole from you mother, in your home, you welcomed him in and he , with no reguard to your freindship, stole from you mother. He talked about life but left out the part where he was a lying, herion addict, and also a theif.
I'm only friends with men, I find very few women that share similar interests or that don't back stab in some degree. That being said, if you had a friend, who you knew had a background, but didn't seem to shift into this 'new' persona until he relapsed, wouldn't you want your friend back?
Not living in my house, not in a huge way, maybe given 6 months to a year, of them being clean and sober, I would consider spending short periods of time with them, away from my home.
I want his friendship back. He was fun (safe sober fun, like hiking and movies etc), and enjoyable. I have many friends, and I can live my life without him. But he seems to want to earn my friendship back as much as I want it. I know he can't be an actual friend for a long time coming as all his focus needs to be on himself, but it seems worth the wait to me.
How do you know he was always sober. The time between his stealing episodes , there was a span of time, was there not, he was using, and he did not tell you, he lied , manipulated and stole your mothers jewelry.
I've never been an addict, but I've had my fair share of problems in life and had burned nearly every bridge I had. The few that stuck around and waited it out are still some of my closest friends. I don't know how to cope with this particular disease as I've never been in a stable enough place in my mind to even consider it.
Then being on this forum is just where you need to be, if you are going to walk with an addict , you might as well be as educated as possible.
Prior to coming to this forum, I was confidant that if he actually wants his sobriety and achieves it and sticks with his recovery that we could be real friends again down the line. But reading all of these responses it seems that it wont be possible, that there is no hope. And the only thing to do is to cut him out of my life completely while he tries to find himself again.
It's probably a good idea to cut him out of your life completely for a time, just because he is clean does not mean he will stay clean. He is very vunerable right now, if he feels he has you to lean on it will encourage him to use.
For some reason, that just doesn't seem right. Not in the sense of morality, but in that some of my friends who are in recovery and have been for a few years are people I am close with now. Their number 1 priority is their sobriety and to state for clarity, I'm not seeking to be number 1 in any relationship I'm in. I am seeking an equal friendship of listening back and forth, and someone who can enjoy life with me the same way I do with the rest of my friends.[/QUOTE]
If he is concentrating on his sobriety , as he should, then you have to know there will be no equal listening back and forth, it will be all about him, you are setting yourself up for a big fall, and a very painful one. Do not judge us for harshness, the majority of us here have endured pain and heartache x's 10 trying to figure out how to stay with the addicts that we love, that we still love even though they are no longer with us. Please get educated about addiction and talk to the people here in recovery about the reality of sobriety, and listen, an addict will turn your life upsidedown. I didn't read that in a book on or on this forum, I experienced and I will tell you , it took me down.
Honey, he was not honest, he stole from you mother, in your home, you welcomed him in and he , with no reguard to your freindship, stole from you mother. He talked about life but left out the part where he was a lying, herion addict, and also a theif.
I'm only friends with men, I find very few women that share similar interests or that don't back stab in some degree. That being said, if you had a friend, who you knew had a background, but didn't seem to shift into this 'new' persona until he relapsed, wouldn't you want your friend back?
Not living in my house, not in a huge way, maybe given 6 months to a year, of them being clean and sober, I would consider spending short periods of time with them, away from my home.
I want his friendship back. He was fun (safe sober fun, like hiking and movies etc), and enjoyable. I have many friends, and I can live my life without him. But he seems to want to earn my friendship back as much as I want it. I know he can't be an actual friend for a long time coming as all his focus needs to be on himself, but it seems worth the wait to me.
How do you know he was always sober. The time between his stealing episodes , there was a span of time, was there not, he was using, and he did not tell you, he lied , manipulated and stole your mothers jewelry.
I've never been an addict, but I've had my fair share of problems in life and had burned nearly every bridge I had. The few that stuck around and waited it out are still some of my closest friends. I don't know how to cope with this particular disease as I've never been in a stable enough place in my mind to even consider it.
Then being on this forum is just where you need to be, if you are going to walk with an addict , you might as well be as educated as possible.
Prior to coming to this forum, I was confidant that if he actually wants his sobriety and achieves it and sticks with his recovery that we could be real friends again down the line. But reading all of these responses it seems that it wont be possible, that there is no hope. And the only thing to do is to cut him out of my life completely while he tries to find himself again.
It's probably a good idea to cut him out of your life completely for a time, just because he is clean does not mean he will stay clean. He is very vunerable right now, if he feels he has you to lean on it will encourage him to use.
For some reason, that just doesn't seem right. Not in the sense of morality, but in that some of my friends who are in recovery and have been for a few years are people I am close with now. Their number 1 priority is their sobriety and to state for clarity, I'm not seeking to be number 1 in any relationship I'm in. I am seeking an equal friendship of listening back and forth, and someone who can enjoy life with me the same way I do with the rest of my friends.[/QUOTE]
If he is concentrating on his sobriety , as he should, then you have to know there will be no equal listening back and forth, it will be all about him, you are setting yourself up for a big fall, and a very painful one. Do not judge us for harshness, the majority of us here have endured pain and heartache x's 10 trying to figure out how to stay with the addicts that we love, that we still love even though they are no longer with us. Please get educated about addiction and talk to the people here in recovery about the reality of sobriety, and listen, an addict will turn your life upsidedown. I didn't read that in a book on or on this forum, I experienced and I will tell you , it took me down.
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Originally Posted by Katiekate
If he is concentrating on his sobriety , as he should, then you have to know there will be no equal listening back and forth, it will be all about him, you are setting yourself up for a big fall, and a very painful one. Do not judge us for harshness, the majority of us here have endured pain and heartache x's 10 trying to figure out how to stay with the addicts that we love, that we still love even though they are no longer with us. Please get educated about addiction and talk to the people here in recovery about the reality of sobriety, and listen, an addict will turn you life upsidedown. I didn't read that in a book on or on this forum, I experienced and I will tell you , it took me down.
I'm not judging anyone, but simply stating the best way for me to hear anything is to be spoken to as an equal who is willing and eager to learn. Not a child who needs to be berated. I appreciate everyones feedback, including the things I don't want to hear. I just hope people will take it down a notch and just talk. Most of it seems like stifled anger, which is preventing me from wanting to reach out.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Supporting a recovering addict is being something not doing something.
Most of the things you have mentioned relate to doing something.......if you can let go of the "doing" part and just be the "being" part......that would be fine.
I have lots of good friends. Many of my friends are in recovery from addiction. I like being their friend. But I don't get emeshed in their life. That is what a good friend does--they are there to provide support and to do things with but they are not there to DO things for. Does that make sense?
When I read your posts, the words "I want" are what stick out to me--go back and read your posts.....it is said quite a bit "I want". I think that is the red flag that everyone is jumping all over. When we want something more than someone else does, the "degree of want" is out of balance and it seems to have the opposite effect.
If you trust God, then Let go and let God do his work in this man's life. If you try to do things for him, you're getting in God's way. It's not unusual for us when first dealing with addiction to want to save them, protect them, help them, forgive them, and show them what good, kind people we are. Our egos are HUGE if we really think that we are more powerful than their addiction.
We do understand more than you may realize. Stick around. Read. Pick up "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Attend some Nar-Anon or Al-Anon meetings. Learn. But most importantly take care of you first......addicts are very very good at finding people who have your thought process.
So who is the addict in my life? He is my son. I love him very much. But I also know that he is very smart, very handsome, and could charm any woman's socks right off. I don't say this to be mean or disrespectful.......it is simply the truth.
gentle hugs
ke
Most of the things you have mentioned relate to doing something.......if you can let go of the "doing" part and just be the "being" part......that would be fine.
I have lots of good friends. Many of my friends are in recovery from addiction. I like being their friend. But I don't get emeshed in their life. That is what a good friend does--they are there to provide support and to do things with but they are not there to DO things for. Does that make sense?
When I read your posts, the words "I want" are what stick out to me--go back and read your posts.....it is said quite a bit "I want". I think that is the red flag that everyone is jumping all over. When we want something more than someone else does, the "degree of want" is out of balance and it seems to have the opposite effect.
If you trust God, then Let go and let God do his work in this man's life. If you try to do things for him, you're getting in God's way. It's not unusual for us when first dealing with addiction to want to save them, protect them, help them, forgive them, and show them what good, kind people we are. Our egos are HUGE if we really think that we are more powerful than their addiction.
We do understand more than you may realize. Stick around. Read. Pick up "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Attend some Nar-Anon or Al-Anon meetings. Learn. But most importantly take care of you first......addicts are very very good at finding people who have your thought process.
So who is the addict in my life? He is my son. I love him very much. But I also know that he is very smart, very handsome, and could charm any woman's socks right off. I don't say this to be mean or disrespectful.......it is simply the truth.
gentle hugs
ke
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
[B]
You are an equal, the people here with the strongest voices have been in reocovery for a very long time, they care about you, there a people who come to this forum every day that are in real danger, who are being abused, who are being lied to and manipulated, lives are on the line in some cases, you have to understand where they come from, when I first arrived, and I have not been here long, I sat back, and just read these "harsh" posts, they were for the most part , spot on, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I think you confuse harshness with loving kindness, and please forgive me for saying this, but if you are going to hang with and addict, you skin will be getting very thick, this is real life at it's worst.
I hope you stick around, I'm glad I did.
Originally Posted by forsakenforgive
I do know that there wont be a back and forth for a long time yet, if ever at all. That depends solely on his ability to stick to recovery. If he cannot stick to recovery, then I cannot and will not sit on stand by. Not to diminish the serious reality of addiction, but arent there times in a friendship where one is more needy then the other for a period of time, when they need to help themselves, or just need to vent?[/
Originally Posted by forsakenforgive
B]
[I]This is not friendship, this is war. Sorry but that is the reality, his only friend is his drug of choice, the rest is just a means to an end.[/I]
I'm not judging anyone, but simply stating the best way for me to hear anything is to be spoken to as an equal who is willing and eager to learn. Not a child who needs to be berated. I appreciate everyones feedback, including the things I don't want to hear. I just hope people will take it down a notch and just talk. Most of it seems like stifled anger, which is preventing me from wanting to reach out.
[I]This is not friendship, this is war. Sorry but that is the reality, his only friend is his drug of choice, the rest is just a means to an end.[/I]
I'm not judging anyone, but simply stating the best way for me to hear anything is to be spoken to as an equal who is willing and eager to learn. Not a child who needs to be berated. I appreciate everyones feedback, including the things I don't want to hear. I just hope people will take it down a notch and just talk. Most of it seems like stifled anger, which is preventing me from wanting to reach out.
You are an equal, the people here with the strongest voices have been in reocovery for a very long time, they care about you, there a people who come to this forum every day that are in real danger, who are being abused, who are being lied to and manipulated, lives are on the line in some cases, you have to understand where they come from, when I first arrived, and I have not been here long, I sat back, and just read these "harsh" posts, they were for the most part , spot on, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I think you confuse harshness with loving kindness, and please forgive me for saying this, but if you are going to hang with and addict, you skin will be getting very thick, this is real life at it's worst.
I hope you stick around, I'm glad I did.
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