Love vs Blind Faith

Old 06-27-2012, 04:25 AM
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Red face Love vs Blind Faith

Coddling, handholding, commiserating, and validating unhealthy thoughts and behaviors, only helps to keep the addict sick…

Ok, i know i am caught in a bit of FOG here with my daughter, but, i found the above post in one of the other threads for parents of addicts....and wanted to see what everyone else thinks.

I obviously love my daughter, have continued to tell her so even when her behavior is VERY unlovable. Her therapist keeps reminding me she is fragile, that her emotional bank account is empty and she needs continuous deposits.... She keeps saying she needs people around her to be positive and help her thru this.

Here is my dilema, i had started reading some of my old posts on a BPD board, (ironic how much mental illness and addiction have in common)...but, i read a few of my posts that had really helped people, i was direct, honest and no b.s....with a twinge of humor...that is who i am...AD (and therpist) seems to want me to be some hand holding, mushy, agreeable, whatever-you-say-dear kind of mom....that is NOT who i am.

Right now AD is refusing any treatment (drug of choice, percoset and probably cocaine and other things), therapy with her regular therapist once a week and "says" she will submit to drug tests, absolutely WILL NOT do any kind of substance abuse treatment, no outpatient, no meetings, nothing. She "says" she has been clean for 3-5 days. But, she is still smoking pot and otherwise self medicating. I KNOW this is a recipe for disaster and relapse (that is if she is not actually still using the other stuff). I've continued to say I love her and want to see her get better, but, that i really think she needs to find some other help. This is of course, in her mind, rude, negative and unsupportive......

i know every addict and every situation is different, but, am i not doing her a disservice if i just blindly support what i know is a dangerous decision to refuse treatment? Can I/should I just agree with her, smile and hold her hand knowing she is setting herself up for a fall?

getting conflicting advice from therapist and what my instincts tell me...
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:35 AM
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Is her therapist an addiction expert? If not, her advice may not be accurate.

From reading your posts, you seem to have your head screwed on correctly, and seem to be seeing things clearly - something that is very tough to do in a horrible situation. Trust yourself and your instincts.

**{Hugs}}

Susan
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:51 AM
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Sounds like she has found a therapist who is supporting what she wants to hear instead of giving truth and reality. My AH found one of those that he was seeing. I never met the guy but I called him Dr Idiot. The only reason I know he isn't made up is I've seen the bills.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:59 AM
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Just noticed that you too are in MA, me too....hi!

not my first go-round with addicts, i was one. 20 years ago, i was addicted to cocaine, looked at myself one day and my toddlers...and quit, cold turkey, and never used again....her father was an addict, criminal, violent abuser and I got him OUT of my kids lives when they were very little. From what i know he is still a mess.

Then as luck would have it many years later, unknowingly married someone who i believe had BPD, i learned alot about the illness and myself through a message board much like this one. I became a leader and staff member there and hopefully helped a few people deal with some difficult stuff being involved with someone with mental illness.

Therapist - no substance abuse not his expertise, relationships, CBT, family therapy...not sure he has a real grasp on the extreme of her addiction and manipulation...she goes to him calm, cries for help, and although he may see she is hurting, he is not seeing the insane behavior i am at home.

Her bf told me in confidence that she is still suggesting that they do "just one more pill", and that he is being firm that she can't...the fact she is bringing it up just makes me think i am right.

she says she will do drug tests, supposed to do one today with a family friend...if there is no opiates in her system, I'm sure she will expect us all to believe her and forget about it...i mean she's "clean" right? But, what about the next time, without treatment...almost impossible. I did it, but, she is NOT me...my situation was probably one in a million.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:00 AM
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If we support someone who refuses any kind of help or treatment and insists on remaining in their addictive lifestyle, what are we supporting?

This therapist sounds unfamiliar with addiction. We can love our addicts no matter how bad their lives get, but we don't have to take a front row seat and cheer them on when there is nothing to cheer.

I'm a mama too and I know your pain. The thing that helped me most was finding my own meetings and my own recovery. It was those things that saved my life.

Hugs
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:42 PM
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Sounds to me like you already know what you need to be doing and your questioning yourself because of the therapist who does not specialize in addiction. Your a RA you know what you need to do to help vs enable your AD.

You see the manipulation she is using. I like Ann found working my own recovery is saving me.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:21 PM
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i think to help an addict, you almost have to think like one...if that makes any sense. Think of all the ways you would get over on people, cheat the test, etc.

I posted in my other thread, she took a drug test today (she knew about it yesterday), but, well-meaning friend got the 4 panel test which does not detect percoset, so her negative results for all but weed is a somewhat hollow victory....but, she could have taken cleanser products, spent all day drinking tons of water, etc...

She is still using, at least weed, but, no cocaine which is something, i guess...not alot though......

I'll be picking up one of the 12 panel tests, and wake her up some morning "surprise, now come with me and pee"......this is my life...pffffffffffffft.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:06 PM
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When you decide to finally put your "I will not live with anyone that does drugs" boundary in place you will also need to be prepared to pull the trigger on several tough decisions.

If you know she's doing it already, is a positive test going to all of a sudden be the miracle cure for your backbone?

You are being played and disrespected.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:56 PM
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Since she says she is willing to do drug tests, tell her you would like to see a 'hair test' for drugs, and WATCH her reaction.

She can't 'fake' that one, unless she suddenly shaves her head and pubis area bald, lol

That would give you a real good idea what is going on.

In addition I agree, she has found a therapist that 'enables' her. I really feel sorry for her right now. You as a RA and I as an RA know that no one, and I mean no one, could help us until we were ready to help ourselves. I also know that my best support system were those that were also in recovery like me.

Sounds to me like you have a pretty good 'handle' on you, and will get through this, again with your own support system. It also sounds to me like she is just not yet ready to find recovery.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:59 AM
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anvilhead - I know she is playing some people, i am NOT fooled....she is still using at least the weed, which as any addict knows is still USING....she is a master manipulator, and as long as she keeps up this oscar worthy performance with our family friend, i continue to be seen as the "bad guy" who isn't supporting this supposed progress. I may have played into her little game yesterday with my message, and i know that....<hangs head>

Her attitude last night was one of "oh, man, so glad i'm all done with that"...like one drug test (that didn't even test for her drug of choice)...and she's all better. Oh, dellusion is a loverly state to live in.

she says she wont do meetings, because she doesn't need to be in front of all those other people or hear their stories....same with group outpatient stuff....

She is going to therapy again today, and is supposed to talk to him about other options.

I am not hopeful, I don't think she is really submitting to doing everything needed to recover.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:01 AM
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When my son was home from rehab, he decided what he wanted to do (not go to AA or NA). He had lots of "good" reasons how he was not physically addicted, only mentally and the bottom line was he wanted to continue drinking alcohol so going to AA or NA would have made him "feel" hypocritical. He did attend weekly counseling sessions with a therapist. He convinced his therapist how group meetings were not advantageous to him also. I didn't like it one bit. It did not rest well with me. Along with his lack of motivation to get a job (was too depressed and stressed out to work) and two relapses it was a very long seven months. I received a communication back from an on-line addiction specialist about my son refusing to attend AA or NA. I wasn't sure whether or not my husband and I were enabling him. It didn't feel right that he was not attending any group meetings but we felt we had no leverage in the situation. Here is the response I was sent:

"There should be no negotiating from your son's side, in terms of how he wants to go about his recovery. Those who are serious and desperate enough about turning their lives around, do whatever it takes, even if it means AA or NA and working a 12-step program. It shouldn't be up to him to pick and choose what he feels like doing.

No doubt counseling is helpful ... but there is no way it will facilitate the kind of change and growth that comes from working a 12-step or another spiritual/personal development program properly. If anything it should be used as a tool/aid along with a proper recovery program ... not in place of it.

So by you letting your son effectively call the shots here - you are enabling him. Your message should be, you'll fund x number of counseling sessions/month, provided he actively works a program of recovery. And if it isn't the 12 steps, then there are others out there that are also helpful and work.

So putting together a written contract is definitely a good idea. But decide on a number of counseling sessions a month you can afford ... and then insist that if he wants you to fund those sessions, he's going to have to actively work a program of recovery as well.

You're on the right track, it's just a question of you being the one's putting in the necessary boundaries and expectations in place, rather than letting your son pick and choose doing what suits him."

I hope this helps settle in your mind what you can expect from your daughter if she intends to live with you and you fund some of her expenses. Don't fall for her excuses. That's an addict speaking.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:03 AM
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it all comes back to the title of this thread...

I love her, but, that does NOT mean I will let her continue to walk on me, disrespect me and she may be able to fool herself and others...she is not fooling me.

I think she really expects me to believe that this is all over, she's done and everything will just keep getting better and better. Sure, she will do some stuff around the house, put up a good appearance, feign sincerity....but, she is an addict and until she really deals with THAT...it is all NOTHING.

I am ready to take custody of my granddaughter if need be, paperwork is ready. I have the drug test at the Hospital to back me up, and proof she is not undergoing treatment. When and if that becomes necessary, she will be kicked out, her and her bf...

she told her sister recently that she has detoxed herself before and "it worked"....HAHAHAHAHAHA...then we would not be where we are now, would we?

So just because she was willing to take a drug test, that she could be fairly certain would come back somewhat clean...i'm supposed to trust her, not effing happening. Just a waiting game now, because the first time she gets stressed out, depressed, mad, upset...she will look to drugs for relief, i will be waiting (hoping for better, but, prepared for worst)...
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