LoveMeNow

I was very naive about addiction and I know realize how naive I was about recovery as well.

I am older, been married for a fairly long time. No young children either. Addiction was not always part of my marriage, thankfully. But when it really hit and started to spiral down, I went right down with it. I really believed I could save him and fix everything. That was my role as a loving, supportive wife, wasn't it?? NO, it wasn't. I was so very wrong.

Here is what I have learned to date.....recovery for an addict is a life long process. It involves nightly meetings (at least), time spent with a sponsor and NA has a big support group after the meetings, as well. They hang around and talk, go for coffee, bowling, dinner, weekend picnics, service work, etc. (My husband isn't doing all of these but he has many late nights - late for him - 11:00. He gets up at 5:00 am for work). He is still not home so I have already learned to be alone more and he calls when he gets in, stops over and we have dinner some nights before he goes off to him meetings.

At my age, I don't mind any of this. My needy days are long gone. I enjoy time by myself and now that I am working on myself....I have my own busy schedule, meetings, reading my books, etc, However, I do notice my Alanon groups seem to rush home after meetings and there is not the same fellowship but that's ok!

In my younger days, I could never of handled this. I was far too emotionally immature and selfish. I too was needy and thought we needed to be together all the time. I probably would have been jealous and anxious about all his new friends and felt left out.

I am not naive enough (anymore) to think he is "recovered" and the problem is solved. I just am sharing this so that others may realize living with an recovering addict isn't going be a new honeymoon stage in your relationship....like I once did.

They HAVE to do this, it has to be about them, just like our recovery...it has to be about us. So the stronger and healthier we become, the easier it is to understand accept what they need to do and use this time wisely, to work on US!

We have decided to make a date night (after our meetings) we meet for dinner on Friday nights and will limit our discussions on recovery. We will spend some time on the weekends doing things and that is enough for me...as long as he is clean.

So my question is....if you are staying with an addict and praying for recovery...are you willing to accept this life long lifestyle change?

xenoughx

I know that the friends & family section is 12-step based, but I wanted to add - that although recovery may be like that for some addicts, but it is not already that way for all.

I am a self-recovered alcoholic for almost 20 years, living with an addict.

I did not have to attend the daily long night meetings and the socialization with other alcoholics to live a healthy, productive life.

I did socialize with a few former drunks, but I found that I was just socializing with people without even knowing if they drank or not doing things I enjoyed.

Sometimes there are other options available - some that might not seem so "anti-family" at times.

I think maybe what needs to be accepted is whether or not you are ready for a sober spouse, and then if you are able to accept their recovery process.

liv1ce

Not everyone is the same. I am "recovering" for the third and last time. I have my own way of going about it as i have experienced this process before, as I mentioned. I know lots of addicts/alcoholics submerge themselves in "the program" and for many it becomes their new albeit, healthy, obsession. It is certainly better than the hell they were in before. It is interesting to hear it from "the other side" so to speak. I guess I had always thought that the spouse was just glad that the really bad abuse was on hold if not "over."

My wife has been an integral part of my ceasing the drugs as well as my recovery. I can't get along without her and even when I was using I didn't like being away from her. At this point in my life I couldn't do the frequent meeting, continuous association with the program that others do as I want my life to be "normal" but without drugs.

I know that during this recovery process it needs to be about me to a point as I really have to focus. I cannot go back - ever. But at the same time normalcy cannot be regained by focusing in only one direction. We had a great life before I fell in this rat hole and we can get back there again but it has to be about both of us.

Kindeyes

For many of us, addict and codependent alike, 12 step programs are very useful. Those programs provide a structure and support for recovery. But I acknowledge that it isn't the only way.....it's just the way that has worked for me. And I share based upon my personal experience and I love to hear the experiences of others. This is how I learn.

For others, the "spiritual awakening" (for some this comes in the form of a total breakdown ...others just a very eye opening experience) is a powerful "event" that carries them through the recovery process.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how it happens. Just that it does.

For me, it was a combination of things (including complete breakdown)......and I have appreciated the personal growth that I have achieved through working the steps. But that's just me.

Drugs change a person. The longer they are addicted, the further they drift from their true selves. It is the worst horror show from a loved ones perspective to watch someone they love deeply abducted by a substance. Their thoughts and behaviors changed at such a deep level. And as we adjust to those changes.....we change too.....and not necessarily in positive ways.

The cessation of using drugs is just ONE aspect of recovery. There is a pattern of thinking and behaving that needs to change too. Personally I think that it's very hard to change our own thinking or behaviors without some outside perspective. Therapy. 12 steps. Intensive reading. SR. Something.

Recovery from addiction or codependence......no matter how it happens.......is good. Addiction and codependence are the same disease on opposite ends of the spectrum and are equally destructive in my opinion.

I was as toxic in my codependence as the addicts are in their addiction.

gentle hugs
ke

liv1ce

I certainly don't disagree with you ke (this is the first I have come in contact with or was aware of a "Community Greeter"). My first time through - I guess as well as my second - AA was an integral part of my recovery and I believed in it. I did not really do the steps as I understood what they were for and achieved the goal in my own way. I also didn't go for "The Higher Power" although understand that it is not necessarily a religious figure and tried to some degree to find what this meant to me. In the end, the fellowship of other sufferers was enormously helpful and the support and advice meant a great deal to me. My second time through I had made a public ass of myself and was still welcomed with open understanding arms. Everywhere I went to a meeting it was the same thing and it felt warm and accepting. I would recommend it to anyone. The second time I felt I needed some deeper knowledge into myself and saw a counselor as well who was excellent. I did gain some deep knowledge of my motivations that I found exceptionally helpful. Another avenue I would recommend as AA just "requires" that you stop and the reason is not important. I needed to know more.

The last time I fell it was because I just like to get high and I really can't have that anymore. If I could get high once in a while and then leave it alone that would be fine but I can't. Any exposure to any kind of substance from which I can achieve alteration from normalcy - and there is an endless array of them - turns me into the beast. And the beast is a lying, cheating, thieving, scrounging baastard who will do it all to achieve that brief moment of ecstasy over and over and over.

This time I am taking everything I have learned in both being sober and being high and simply quitting. In the end I have to stay away from it all. I feel very well supported but If I feel the need I have no fear of going back to meetings. I am able to talk endlessly on this site as well as to my wife.

I meet a great number of people in my work and over the years have found a great number of severe alcoholics - by their own description - who simply quit and never sought anyone's help. This was a great surprise to me and I always wondered how they did it. Surprisingly enough most of them didn't think of themselves as alcoholics in spite of having all of the behaviors common to us. I'm not bringing this up to support any argument or approach I just have always found it interesting.

LoveMeNow

Many people from my church have just been able to just quit an addiction, through the Grace of God. Some don't like AA or NA programs because Jesus is not allowed to be openly discussed.

Hey, what ever you keeps you clean, strong and healthy is fine by me. However, I personally like the 12 steps and look forward to growing mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I am also glad my husband chose this program as well. He likes the support and fellowship and just for today...he didn't take any pills...and that's a good day!

I didn't mean to sound like the 12 step programs were the only way, it's just a common way and it works, if you keep coming back and working it. (Just my humble opinion).

outtolunch

Congratulations on your impending one month clean time.

I have to tell you that your post is likely to serve as a trigger for many codependents looking to rationalize "standing by their man" and all that.

Every story is different with a common theme. So many here have allowed their man to lie, cheat, steal, been given the STD gift that keeps on giving, have been abandoned, lost their homes and struggle financially because the man is addicted to substance. Some have put themselves and children in harms way cause an addict is not competent to partner nor parent. And thuth be told, some have and continue to enable their man to live life without consequence, responsibility or accountability. Some have been used and abused beyond anything otherwise imaginable.

Recovery is a one man job and most often a life or death decision. It's a two- way street for both the addicted person and the codependent.

We did not cause it.
We cannot control it.
We cannot cure it.

Vale

Well put, outtolunch!

liv1ce

Outtolunch

Thanks for your post and I understand what you are saying. I have done a lot of reading on this site and hear the anger and resentment that comes from both "sides" and am reminded of the thought I had when I first hit AA years ago. I was at that time thinking of myself as quite the scumbag and included all others of my ilk in the same category. What Ifound instead was that deep inside each scumbag was a profound person of intelligence and caring and well worth saving. Seeing that changed my thinking of myself.

I fully realize that the statistics for us are poor but how do we know who the lucky one is to be. I recognize and have been horrified by some of the situations I have read on this site but I but I was/am an A-hole too but in the end I was worth saving. The reality is that for each drug addled jerk out there tormenting his/her spuse there is real person deep inside. The one they fell in
love with is in there - somewhere - if they can be reached.

I have no idea how that is to be done, or who is "worth" it. I can't tell who
should leave and who should stay. All I know is that I am worth it and if my wife had given up on me...
I was about to say I don't know where I would be but I know what I would be doing. And thanks to her ability to wake me up I am 30 days clean and sober.

Freedom1990

You very much described my early recovery!

However as the years went by, I started to find balance in my life. There was family, friends, and job to attend to.

As I have grown and changed, so has the way I work my recovery changed.

I will always be an addict/alcoholic, but I have also found a sense of normalcy in my life these days. I no longer attend meetings daily. I do enjoy fellowship with my friends in recovery, but it's no longer a nightly thing.

It's all about balance, and for this old gal, hanging in there and doing what I need to do has brought me a pretty good life.

I have taken the principles of AA (and Alanon) and have applied them to my everyday life.

Sending you gentle hugs of support.

laurie6781

You very much also described MY EARLY RECOVERY, but like Freedom I too started to find BALANCE in my life, and not ALL my 'free time' (not at work) was spent in AA or at AA meetings.

I was learning how to live those 12 steps in ALL facets of my life and was finding out how great life really is.

That is still true today almost 31 years later. To be honest, I rarely go to meetings, unless I have a sponsee that needs support or someone I know is taking a cake. I do go also when I need a 'kick in the butt', lol

(((((Oxyfiend))))) we are all worth it, it is just that some of us A's never become ready or take that final oomph effort to find recovery. As many on this site know, both here in F&F and over in the alcoholics forum, I literally had to die to get here. I worked my butt and a few other things off those first couple of years cleaning out the wreckage of my past and learning how to be a civilized functioning human being in our world. I did it. And with each one I work with, they too soon figure out, that support or no support from family, spouse, so, whatever, DOES NOT MATTER ..................... it is their responsibility to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the havoc they have caused, and they will feel the consequences of all those actions they did out there while practicing their affliction.

So (((((LoveMeNot))))) do not despair, lol IF he is serious about his recovery, things will continue to change over the next year or two and one day you will notice that his ACTIONS are showing you how much he is working on his recovery, and the folks in AA and those he now has friends will still be important, but he will be going to a few less meetings a week, and spending more time with the family and you, and, and, and,

You keep working on you and work the program you would love to see him work. Either he will get it or not, however, you will be living a life you are comfortable with.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

bluebelle

Thanks for sharing!! My RABF did not participate in a 12 steps group, but he had a recovery plan that he worked on with his psychiatrist. I remember posting on this site because I was concerned with what he was and was not doing (during RABF's early recovery). People posted back asking if he was "working his program." When I said, "Yes." They said that I should stay out of it. That was excellent advice. At first, I wanted to tell him what he should do and when. I wanted to give him lots of advice--like I was some kind of expert on what was best for him, LOL. I was "playing God." I got better as I learned to let go. I also had to hand him over to his HP and work on myself. I had to stop worrying and checking on him--not making phone calls or changing my plans to try to "fix" him. I had to learn how to go on with my own life and make my own plans. I had to realize that my own happiness was not based on his actions. I'm my own person, etc. It is a struggle, but I am so much better than I was then. I'm not anywhere near "cured," but I am better. One step at a time, and all that!!!

allforcnm

I find this topic interesting also. My husband is in a rehab center right now, but it is not based on the NA 12 step principle. Its individualized therapy with other holistic treatment, and addiction here is not considered to be a disease. I have been working with the family therapist since he went in & she has been a great support to me. She is actually an MD with a PHD in psychiatry which I find impressive for her to devote her skills solely to family members.

I do get confused sometimes when I read on this forum because a lot of what I get from the rehab does not mesh with what I read here. In fact, in my earlier post here on the forum I was told I was enabling my husband. His rehab allows for ample contact so I can talk to him everyday, and I can visit him on weekends. I can’t go every weekend because it is in another state and its hard to travel with our son. But, his doctors and my therapist have said it is good for him to have the support of his family since he is trying to recover from his drug use.

Oxyfiend. What you are saying about how you needed the support of your wife I think is good to hear. I actually have heard it a lot when I read on the substance abuse, or alcoholic forums. What my husbands doctors said is that it is good for him to know that he is part of family, something bigger than himself, and with that comes respect, responsibility, pride and a whole bunch of other psychological and emotional benefits. They also encourage us to talk and share, not to the extent of unhealthy obsession or intrusion into the others private thoughts or anything like that. I don’t know how to explain, but it just seems to be less of a solid line separating ‘ this is yours’ , ‘ this is mine’ mentality. I do however clearly realize that he is in control of his recovery, and he has to make his own choices. I don’t want to imply Im getting involved in telling him what to do, or anything like that. I also know I am responsible for myself, and like him I have a whole bunch of my own feelings and mistakes to deal with.

Im not inserting here because Im triggered and need to rationalize “standing by my man “ as Outtolunch said might happen because of your post. I just wanted to share that there are a wide range of methodologies and philosophies related to addiction. This covers not only the person with the addiction, but also the family members dealing with the effects.

Another interesting fact that I ran across when I was browsing this website a while back was a poll on recovery methods.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...o-you-use.html

LoveMeNow

I am happy with the 12 step program as well as the therapist I chose for myself. I am also happy my husband chose a 12 step program....it may be his recovery.....but I still want to feel confident/comfortable with it. He is also seeing a therapist, I know his name and he feels comfortable with him and thats all I want to know.

I like my meetings and I am happy he and my friends are seeing a difference in me He likes his, he has a lot of support, I happy for him and I happy I am seeing a sincere change in him right now.

I love him with all my heart but I don't want to be his support. (We tried that. I tried to help him wean off pills, never thinking he had a hidden bottle somewhere). I am not educated enough on addiction, emotionally healthy enough nor do I think it would ever be in his best interest. I will never understand the mind of an addict and I never want to try. That's one scare place for me.

Sometimes, when he is too honest, my head spins. For example, he gave me all control of the money and told me he was happy with $20 in his pocket. He felt such freedom not to have to plan, lie, connive, juggle money - all to buy pills without me finding out. He told in more detail and all I could think was WOW, that's a lot of work and must be so exhausting mentally and emotionally. Then I had to quickly put it of my mind. Like I said, I don't want to know how his mind has been working, nor do I want him to know how mind was either. IMO, some things are better left to professionals or to people who understand and can support the different recoveries.

P.S. I read him my post and I was surprised to hear him talk about more balance in the future but admitted that will be a long ways down the road. I have no issues with the way things are right now anyway. We spent a lot time together actually doing things but also a lot time on ourselves. And in my opinion, that is healthy and balanced for us.

liv1ce

Allforcnm

it sounds as if your situation with your husband is a bit like my wife and mine. As the addict/alcoholic in the group I really appreciate what she does for me and it is immensely helpful. There are many voices here and as many opinions. I can fully understand the level of anger and resentment that some people reach - why wouldn't you - but it can be heard in a lack of objectivity in some comments. Again, how hard it must be to remain objective.

I have been in inpatient rehab and understand the drill. It is really helpful but I imagine that at sometime before discharge one should address the difference between being inside and outside. I felt so successful in the unit but then outside it was just the same old shiit. Inside everyone is an addict of some sort and there is a brotherhood of sorts as each of you reaches some level of success. Outside you are just an addict and for me I went from feeling successful to feeling like a scumbag again. I think it is good that you are a part of things now so you can understand later.

lesliej

Oxy: "At this point in my life I couldn't do the frequent meeting, continuous association with the program that others do as I want my life to be "normal" but without drugs."

I don't understand why the brotherhood that was so important to you in treatment is something that you "can't do" now. Why is working a program that deepens self awareness, heightens your consciousness and helps to put you in touch with your own spiritual self not considered "normal"?? Instead of going to your own program and sharing your message of recovery with other suffering addicts you want to come here and encourage codependents to change their program?

LoveMeNow

A few months ago, I thought "my love" could save my husband. I was so wrong.
A few months ago, I thought I should support my husband no matter what. Again, I was so wrong.
A few months ago, I thought he was the only "sick" one. I was so wrong.

I am thankful people here on SR told me what I didn't want to hear. I am glad I was called out on my own denial or unhealthily thinking. I am forever thankful people took the time to reply to my posts - as I got on and off the merry-go-round.

I am far from healthy but at least now I know that. I know I need to focus on me and I know how to get where I want to go. Recovery is hard work and it will take time....but I will get healthier ONE DAY AT A TIME! I NEVER want to allow myself to care more someone else then I care about God or myself again. It's not selfish, it's self care. I can not love anyone (at least in a healthy way) until I truly love myself and grow emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

allforcnm

Leslie. Im new on this forum but I don’t think your comment to Oxyfiend was very nice. I think he has a right to share his thoughts on this subject even if it doesn’t match what you believe. This is an open forum isn’t it? I don’t think it is proper to criticize his recovery process either. You are talking about codependency and one of the factors involved in that illness is the desire to control others and direct their actions. I think you might want to think about why you became so upset over his comments.

I didn’t see him trying to change anyones attempt at recovery, he was just sharing. There is no reason to fear others ideas. I appreciate his comments and I think there is a lot of truth in what he says. When I first came to this forum, my first post got responses telling me that the doctors and family therapist at the rehab center were wrong and giving me incorrect and dangerous information. The word dangerous was actually used. Then I was told to seek out another therapist that could teach me the right way. THAT is a direct attempt to change a persons recovery process. All it did for me was show that some people hold very firm to their beliefs, and it was best for me to ignore them.

I support LMN attempts at recovery, and I think it is great she is willing to share her thoughts and feelings. If she says she is happy and it is working for her and her husband, then that is all that matters. She owns her recovery and it has nothing to do with me. But, I realize I can learn things from her experiences and her outlook that might help me, but I feel the same about Oxyfiends experiences and outlook too.

LoveMeNow

Many of us believed our love could save our addicts. We tried everything we could to save them from their selves. And we tried to control their behavior to the point we became very sick. In some ways, Oxy's posts still can feed into that kind of thinking, especially for very new codependent posters. (no offense Oxy).

It wasn't too long ago, I was still saying "if you really loved me and our family, you would NOT be taking pills." I honestly believed that. I now know it has nothing to do with whether he loved me and the kids. He is an addict and their addiction (DOC) is all that really matters. That was extremely hard for me understand. I just couldn't wrap my head around that until I read "I am your disease." I emailed it to my husband and he confirmed every word in it. I then sat speechless for at least 2 hours, the pain was so intense that I eventually became numb as I digested what I just read. I finally understood addiction and was sick to my stomach.

If I was new and read a few of Oxy's post, I would be thinking "See, he loves his wife enough to stop." My mind would have twisted everything he wrote to fit that statement.

I am by no means criticizing you OXY, I am just explaining how my unhealthy and codependent mind operated. We all want to save our loved ones, but our love couldn't do it....and that is hard to accept and understand.

liv1ce

Well I guess I have had my butt kicked! It seems we all have an agenda and can fit it into any situation. I am not telling anyone who is to go and who is to stay. I have no idea what anyone else's situation is like. I see a lot of posts demonstrate a desire to punish the addict and that is totally understandable. The only message I tried to convey is that I have never met an addict or alcoholic who wasn't also a human with a redeemable person deep inside. I am proof of that and in my own way I am going to make it. I am going to be in that lucky 10 percent. I am determined to remain the loving dedicated person who was dying to come back through the miasma of lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating and all the other things that all of you see and live with every day.

I just feel so good to be back from the dead and I felt like saying so. The person who is typing this was not visible a few short weeks ago.

I'm sorry if my words of happiness at resurfacing disturb others. Or cause someone to stay where they shouldn't. I really didn't give my words so much power.