I suck at boundaries
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 80
I suck at boundaries
Hi, I'm back. A few weeks ago I inquired on SR about boundaries. That topic seems to be my main focus for improvement now. It should have been a long time ago. I wanted to come back here and follow up, because 1) I appreciated the responses and advice, but felt there were some blanks and gaps, and now I feel like I could use some more words of wisdom; and 2) I am going to my home state next weekend and spending time around certain people will be unavoidable---and I don't think I have the complete skills to avoid their emotional abuse and manipulation yet. I'm trying to get there, but I'm starting to realize I don't even have much of a foundation for knowing WHAT healthy boundaries are.
But I have arrived at the realization that my addict brother is not the one who negatively affects my life---I have not had contact with him in several years, and I am happy with that situation. My problems are specifically with his devout enablers: my mom and grandmother, and other family members who are beginning to enter the circle. So basically, I need advice NOT about dealing with addicts themselves, but with those that support terrible situations, if there is a difference.
Once again, what's your advice? What are the most important points you learned about setting boundaries and sticking with them?
Any helpful quotes?
I have begun reading Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin. Anyone read this, or have a better recommendation?
Please tell me everything you know.
But I have arrived at the realization that my addict brother is not the one who negatively affects my life---I have not had contact with him in several years, and I am happy with that situation. My problems are specifically with his devout enablers: my mom and grandmother, and other family members who are beginning to enter the circle. So basically, I need advice NOT about dealing with addicts themselves, but with those that support terrible situations, if there is a difference.
Once again, what's your advice? What are the most important points you learned about setting boundaries and sticking with them?
Any helpful quotes?
I have begun reading Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin. Anyone read this, or have a better recommendation?
Please tell me everything you know.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 184
You wont change the people who enable him any more than you'll change the addict themselves. I had a sit down with my whole family over them enabling him and everyone eventually came to the conclusion that no one is helping him by pretending nothing is wrong, but no one actually called him out on being high any other times. At first i told my family "i dont want to be around him. if he is at family events, I wont be" and they were upset when i wouldnt go but understood. Now i think that might not have been the best approach because it made me feel like they chose him over me. Like, im the one who ISNT addicted to drugs, should I be the one allowed, and him the one excluded?
Got over that though. Now i dont go out of my way to go somewhere if hes there, but i wont refuse to come to dinner or go to events hes at cause hes there. Im cordial, and I leave everything be. Its not going to change any of them. When they've had enough, THEY'LL set boundaries. Its not for me to try to make them.
it sucks, but it is what it is.
Got over that though. Now i dont go out of my way to go somewhere if hes there, but i wont refuse to come to dinner or go to events hes at cause hes there. Im cordial, and I leave everything be. Its not going to change any of them. When they've had enough, THEY'LL set boundaries. Its not for me to try to make them.
it sucks, but it is what it is.
Last edited by cc88; 05-18-2012 at 12:01 PM. Reason: typo...
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
"_____, I can't and won't discuss that. How are you doing today?"
"Well, good for him!" and if they keep going on and on, "excuse me, I need to get a drink" or whatever.
My strategy has been to treat my enabling loved ones with as much respect, as I would Mother Theresa. I stick to the script and don't deviate. So far it's been nothing short of miraculous
"Well, good for him!" and if they keep going on and on, "excuse me, I need to get a drink" or whatever.
My strategy has been to treat my enabling loved ones with as much respect, as I would Mother Theresa. I stick to the script and don't deviate. So far it's been nothing short of miraculous
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Boundaries are established to protect your own safety, sanity and assets.
A boundary does not require others to do or not do anything.
If your boundary is something along the lines of " I will not discuss anything to do with my addicted brother" and someone persists on trying to engage you, you remove yourself from the situation.
If you find yourself getting pissy, check your motives. Chances you expected others to conform with your boundary.
A boundary does not require others to do or not do anything.
If your boundary is something along the lines of " I will not discuss anything to do with my addicted brother" and someone persists on trying to engage you, you remove yourself from the situation.
If you find yourself getting pissy, check your motives. Chances you expected others to conform with your boundary.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 455
If they enable, that is their business, not yours. However, if they condemn you for not enabling then you can have a boundary that says, "I will not tolerate emotional abuse or manipulation." Enforcing that might mean you refuse to discuss the issue or excuse yourself along the lines that Chino suggested.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
When I was a little girl, I was told that if someone touched me in a way that made me feel uncomfortable I was suppose to leave or tell someone. That person would be crossing a boundary. Clear cut, right?
The same holds true for emotional or psychological stuff that makes me feel uncomfortable. If I have stated my position calmly and clearly and someone insists on going there again, I have the right (and responsibility to myself) to remove myself from the situation. The things that make me feel uncomfortable are people who manipulate using Fear, Obligation, Guilt (the ol' FOG thing) but also someone who is deliberately trying to stir my anger or frustration. Best to walk away and cool my heels rather than let my emotions run my tongue. Easier said than done at times.
Say what you mean (state your boundaries clearly)
Mean what you say (boundaries are not negotiable)
But don't say it mean (be nice about it)
My father was not an alcoholic but he was a gold medal winner when it came to stepping all over boundaries (mine or anyone elses). In fact, if I stated a boundary, it was like painting a big red target on my chest because it was his "duty" to break me of the need to have a boundary. It took becoming an adult and getting a little gumption, but I got pretty good at dealing with him. I'd leave. Not in a huff. Just leave. Didn't even have to say why....he knew. And often he thought it was funny as heck.....until I stopped coming around. He eventually changed because I changed first. (By the way, the quieter the exit, the more impact it had for some reason.)
I find that I don't feel resentful if I've expressed my boundary and someone crosses it. I just know that I need to take action for me. We all have so much more control of what goes on around us than we seem to believe. We don't control others but we have two feet that can propel us out of anything.
Someone used the term "vote with your feet" with me the other day. I loved that.
Does any of that make a lick of sense? lol (ramble ramble ramble ramble)
gentle hugs
ke
The same holds true for emotional or psychological stuff that makes me feel uncomfortable. If I have stated my position calmly and clearly and someone insists on going there again, I have the right (and responsibility to myself) to remove myself from the situation. The things that make me feel uncomfortable are people who manipulate using Fear, Obligation, Guilt (the ol' FOG thing) but also someone who is deliberately trying to stir my anger or frustration. Best to walk away and cool my heels rather than let my emotions run my tongue. Easier said than done at times.
Say what you mean (state your boundaries clearly)
Mean what you say (boundaries are not negotiable)
But don't say it mean (be nice about it)
My father was not an alcoholic but he was a gold medal winner when it came to stepping all over boundaries (mine or anyone elses). In fact, if I stated a boundary, it was like painting a big red target on my chest because it was his "duty" to break me of the need to have a boundary. It took becoming an adult and getting a little gumption, but I got pretty good at dealing with him. I'd leave. Not in a huff. Just leave. Didn't even have to say why....he knew. And often he thought it was funny as heck.....until I stopped coming around. He eventually changed because I changed first. (By the way, the quieter the exit, the more impact it had for some reason.)
I find that I don't feel resentful if I've expressed my boundary and someone crosses it. I just know that I need to take action for me. We all have so much more control of what goes on around us than we seem to believe. We don't control others but we have two feet that can propel us out of anything.
Someone used the term "vote with your feet" with me the other day. I loved that.
Does any of that make a lick of sense? lol (ramble ramble ramble ramble)
gentle hugs
ke
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 271
What always scared me about boundaries is that when I enforced them it left evat risk being alone. So I would put my needs and boundaries aside in order to not feel alone.
Now I would rather be alone than allow someone to emotional verbally abuse me or disrespect my boundaries. Truth is none of us are alone :-)
Now I would rather be alone than allow someone to emotional verbally abuse me or disrespect my boundaries. Truth is none of us are alone :-)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 80
Thank you all so much. I feel so lucky, and it makes me so happy that so many people are willing to take the time to help me understand this.
cc88, I know what you mean about feeling like they chose the addict over you. I've always felt that way---really lonely, and hurt---when I don't go to family functions, only to be seen as the jerk who hates everyone. But when I do spend time around them, they seem to think that about me anyway, because I get upset and annoyed with the way they handle each other, even without the addict present.
FindingJoy--Yes, I have hesitated to set boundaries out of fear for being alone. I want to be a part of my family again and get along with everyone, and stepping away (like I really need to) makes me feel like I'm not giving it a chance. I am determined to learn to create a better distance anyway, though.
Kindeyes--Thank you, and thank you. I'm sorry your father treated you that way. I love what you said about "the quieter the exit." It makes perfect sense, and thinking about it now, I have always felt proud of myself at the times I quietly removed myself from an uncomfortable situation, rather than engaging in a shouting match, or desperately trying to justify myself to those who have given me a reason to leave.
Outtolunch--Something clicked for me when I read what you said, about getting pissy. This is true---the times I get angry are when people don't do what I wish they would (stop giving him money, stop giving his girlfriend money, a place to live, etc.). And these are things that I don't think they will ever do. So I'm pretty much setting myself up to get pissy by allowing myself to have these expectations in the moments that I'm with these people. I know better, and yet I still have not been able to grow, and lose the anger. Maybe stepping away is the only way I can do that.
Thank you again, everyone.
cc88, I know what you mean about feeling like they chose the addict over you. I've always felt that way---really lonely, and hurt---when I don't go to family functions, only to be seen as the jerk who hates everyone. But when I do spend time around them, they seem to think that about me anyway, because I get upset and annoyed with the way they handle each other, even without the addict present.
FindingJoy--Yes, I have hesitated to set boundaries out of fear for being alone. I want to be a part of my family again and get along with everyone, and stepping away (like I really need to) makes me feel like I'm not giving it a chance. I am determined to learn to create a better distance anyway, though.
Kindeyes--Thank you, and thank you. I'm sorry your father treated you that way. I love what you said about "the quieter the exit." It makes perfect sense, and thinking about it now, I have always felt proud of myself at the times I quietly removed myself from an uncomfortable situation, rather than engaging in a shouting match, or desperately trying to justify myself to those who have given me a reason to leave.
Outtolunch--Something clicked for me when I read what you said, about getting pissy. This is true---the times I get angry are when people don't do what I wish they would (stop giving him money, stop giving his girlfriend money, a place to live, etc.). And these are things that I don't think they will ever do. So I'm pretty much setting myself up to get pissy by allowing myself to have these expectations in the moments that I'm with these people. I know better, and yet I still have not been able to grow, and lose the anger. Maybe stepping away is the only way I can do that.
Thank you again, everyone.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
Never house a drama llama. He is always taking a dump. All of your time and energy will be spent cleaning up after him, and all your money spent on Lysol. And afterwards, there will still be s*** stains all over the house to remind you of how inadequate you are.
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(I love it!!!!!!!!!!)
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