Enabling???
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Enabling???
My AS just called. He recently got out of jail and is on his own, in another state 1500 miles away. I haven't heard from him much since he got out. He is living in a weekly pay place (says its a sober house but I don't hear much talk about meetings or anything like that so I'm not really sure. Sounds more like a boarding house). He supposedly is working and I can only assume he is because he hasn't asked for money for rent.
He called saying he's hungry. Said he had to pay all he had for rent and is out of the peanut butter/jelly he had bought when he last had money. He asked if I would order him a pizza online. he knows I would not send him cash, kept saying, "mom, I don't want money, I'm just hungry. I'll be getting paid tomorrow so I'll be all set after tomorrow". I told him to let me think about it and I'd call him back (stalling is my new coping mechanism!)
Is it enabling to send him a pizza? I'm guessing it is but I'm having a real hard time thinking about saying no. He sounds really good. No slurring, angry outbursts, crazy talk, etc... sounds like my son...who is hungry.
Suggestions?
This has been a rough day.
He called saying he's hungry. Said he had to pay all he had for rent and is out of the peanut butter/jelly he had bought when he last had money. He asked if I would order him a pizza online. he knows I would not send him cash, kept saying, "mom, I don't want money, I'm just hungry. I'll be getting paid tomorrow so I'll be all set after tomorrow". I told him to let me think about it and I'd call him back (stalling is my new coping mechanism!)
Is it enabling to send him a pizza? I'm guessing it is but I'm having a real hard time thinking about saying no. He sounds really good. No slurring, angry outbursts, crazy talk, etc... sounds like my son...who is hungry.
Suggestions?
This has been a rough day.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
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have you prayed on it? 
seriously, take some deep breaths and pray...maybe you will find some inner guidance; have a conversation with your higher power and maybe you will know what to do
thinking of you...
seriously, take some deep breaths and pray...maybe you will find some inner guidance; have a conversation with your higher power and maybe you will know what to do
thinking of you...
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Thanks Leslie. I was actually in the middle of praying when the phone rang.
I sent the pizza. I decided that I could live with being out $10 if he was just scamming me somehow. Also, when he was using heavily he never cared about eating so I figured the fact that he was hungry was a good sign.
Guess I haven't fully let go, but am stil trying.
I sent the pizza. I decided that I could live with being out $10 if he was just scamming me somehow. Also, when he was using heavily he never cared about eating so I figured the fact that he was hungry was a good sign.
Guess I haven't fully let go, but am stil trying.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
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we are all children of a great and powerful mystery, I'm sending my prayer with your pizza and I hope that you find some restful peace and feel the love in your heart without tears...
tomorrow you can get back to your tough love
tomorrow you can get back to your tough love
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I went to the dominos pizza website and placed the order there. At the end of the order it said they would have to have the credit card used to place the order so I also called the store (using the number on the website) to explain the situation and make sure it would go through.
Thanks for the heads up though. If he had asked me to call a local pizza shop I don't think I would have thought to make sure the number was legit.
Thanks for the heads up though. If he had asked me to call a local pizza shop I don't think I would have thought to make sure the number was legit.
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A friend's son went back to college today, it's the end of his spring break. He flew all the way across the country, then called home as soon as he got back to the dorm. The cafeteria wasn't open yet and, already broke, he asked his Dad to call in a pizza for him.
I don't have any advice, I was just struck by how different the two worlds are. One young man's pizza is cause for a fond chuckle, the other young man's pizza is cause for concern and confusion.
Hugs to you, Heart, and wishing you many fond chuckles in the near future.
I don't have any advice, I was just struck by how different the two worlds are. One young man's pizza is cause for a fond chuckle, the other young man's pizza is cause for concern and confusion.
Hugs to you, Heart, and wishing you many fond chuckles in the near future.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 317
Chino,
"One young man's pizza is cause for a fond chuckle, the other young man's pizza is cause for concern and confusion. "
I was thinking the same thing Chino. It should be in the "normies" thread if you have seen that.
"Normies don't have to pray about ordering pizza" hehe
Heartbroken
Yes , it is enabling by buying him pizza, and he knows you will feel sorry for him(poor baby) that he is starving. Plan on getting additional calls for assistance. You just set a boundary with him.
I personally, think the rule should be that when he calls ther will be absolutely NO favors given the pattern of enabling on your part, and lack of responsibility on his. Maybe you can let him know this- Then when he calls for the next favor, you can kindly remind him of your boundary.
There are good soup kitchens, and the food banks, and my son actually ate pretty good at the soup kitchen, and the food bank, and friends that worked at Subway etc.... There is also the possibility of food stamps depending on his income, but he can call mommy for hand delivered pizza!!!! hmph.
My BF shared this story with me: His dad gave him the boot when he was 19. My BF had a punk teenager tude, was only working part time, and had finished HS, but wasn't going to college. Dad paid my BF's rent for one month and his mom gave him some food. My BF has been on his own since (he is 39 now) and has a great relationship with his parents. He never ever called them for help or to complain. Of course my BF used to eat top ramen a lot, went for free samples at the store, and once admitted to eating paper one night(yikes) He never wanted to worry his mom.
I hope I didn't come off know it all or harsh, but I am professional, and accomplished enabler; I know the excuses. I only hope you didn't buy him the extra special deluxe triple meat pizza--lol
Take care, and my thoughts are with you and your son.
"One young man's pizza is cause for a fond chuckle, the other young man's pizza is cause for concern and confusion. "
I was thinking the same thing Chino. It should be in the "normies" thread if you have seen that.
"Normies don't have to pray about ordering pizza" hehe
Heartbroken
Yes , it is enabling by buying him pizza, and he knows you will feel sorry for him(poor baby) that he is starving. Plan on getting additional calls for assistance. You just set a boundary with him.
I personally, think the rule should be that when he calls ther will be absolutely NO favors given the pattern of enabling on your part, and lack of responsibility on his. Maybe you can let him know this- Then when he calls for the next favor, you can kindly remind him of your boundary.
There are good soup kitchens, and the food banks, and my son actually ate pretty good at the soup kitchen, and the food bank, and friends that worked at Subway etc.... There is also the possibility of food stamps depending on his income, but he can call mommy for hand delivered pizza!!!! hmph.
My BF shared this story with me: His dad gave him the boot when he was 19. My BF had a punk teenager tude, was only working part time, and had finished HS, but wasn't going to college. Dad paid my BF's rent for one month and his mom gave him some food. My BF has been on his own since (he is 39 now) and has a great relationship with his parents. He never ever called them for help or to complain. Of course my BF used to eat top ramen a lot, went for free samples at the store, and once admitted to eating paper one night(yikes) He never wanted to worry his mom.
I hope I didn't come off know it all or harsh, but I am professional, and accomplished enabler; I know the excuses. I only hope you didn't buy him the extra special deluxe triple meat pizza--lol
Take care, and my thoughts are with you and your son.
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I have asked myself this same question so many times before. I have thought things like "heck I'd feed a stray DOG...what kind of mother am I to refuse my own son food! If he dies from starvation, it would be because I refused to give him food!" In that one thought there are three important things happening. FEAR=if he dies. OBLIGATION=my own son GUILT=what kind of mother am I
F.O.G. When my thought process is dictated by those three things, I know that my thought process is fogged up.
This is the thought process of enabling behavior. I can't bear the pain of knowing that he is hungry so I relieve that pain by feeding him. I feed him to stop MY pain.
My son knows how I think better than I do! If I say no, he'll then move to "ok I guess I'll have to steal food then.". He ups the ante knowing that the thought of him resorting to theft is also painful for me. My thought process moves to....."oh no, if he steals food, he might get caught. If he gets caught, he might go to jail. And it would be my fault because I wouldn't feed him.". There it is again.... fear, obligation, and guilt. Fogged up thinking.
What is a mother to do? how do I stop the PAIN that this whole scenario creates for ME? I feed him.
My fear is that he'll die or go to jail and further mess up his life. It is that fear and the pain that it creates and the resulting thought process that keeps me in the dance.
The addict uses my fear, obligation and guilt to keep me playing his way.
Until I face that, I will continue to dance and he will continue to use drugs and me.
This is very tough on a mother's heart.
You and your son are in my prayers.
gentle hugs
ke
F.O.G. When my thought process is dictated by those three things, I know that my thought process is fogged up.
This is the thought process of enabling behavior. I can't bear the pain of knowing that he is hungry so I relieve that pain by feeding him. I feed him to stop MY pain.
My son knows how I think better than I do! If I say no, he'll then move to "ok I guess I'll have to steal food then.". He ups the ante knowing that the thought of him resorting to theft is also painful for me. My thought process moves to....."oh no, if he steals food, he might get caught. If he gets caught, he might go to jail. And it would be my fault because I wouldn't feed him.". There it is again.... fear, obligation, and guilt. Fogged up thinking.
What is a mother to do? how do I stop the PAIN that this whole scenario creates for ME? I feed him.
My fear is that he'll die or go to jail and further mess up his life. It is that fear and the pain that it creates and the resulting thought process that keeps me in the dance.
The addict uses my fear, obligation and guilt to keep me playing his way.
Until I face that, I will continue to dance and he will continue to use drugs and me.
This is very tough on a mother's heart.
You and your son are in my prayers.
gentle hugs
ke
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KE, you hit the nail on the head! I needed to read this this morning.
I put together a list of local food banks/shelters that serve meals in case he calls me again hungry. I know even offering this is just to relieve my FOG but at least it will be teaching him to be independent.
I put together a list of local food banks/shelters that serve meals in case he calls me again hungry. I know even offering this is just to relieve my FOG but at least it will be teaching him to be independent.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Kindeyes very well put! You did hit the nail on the head.
My son used to say OK, I will just have to steal food from Walmart. And speaking of the starving dog. Once he called me to buy dog food claiming the dog was starving. I came and took the dog away.
Heartbroken, it became so bad for me at one point that I was not eating well, because I felt too guilty to go out to eat or buy good food when I was worried that he was starving. My BF had to stop going to the store with me and taking me out to dinner, because I would get really depressed and talk about: "what if my kid is hungry."
I don't feel that way now, but it took me a long time to get just where I am now.
hugs
My son used to say OK, I will just have to steal food from Walmart. And speaking of the starving dog. Once he called me to buy dog food claiming the dog was starving. I came and took the dog away.
Heartbroken, it became so bad for me at one point that I was not eating well, because I felt too guilty to go out to eat or buy good food when I was worried that he was starving. My BF had to stop going to the store with me and taking me out to dinner, because I would get really depressed and talk about: "what if my kid is hungry."
I don't feel that way now, but it took me a long time to get just where I am now.
hugs
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Been there December (still am but not as bad as I used to be). I just came from a massage appt and instead of just enjoying it I had to keep forcing the "I'm indulging in a massage while AS is begging for food" thoughts out of my head. I have to keep reminding myself that I work hard for everything I have and deserve to have a good life. My son can choose the same or he can keep choosing to take the hard path. I can't let his poor choices ruin my life.
When I was his age both of my parents had already passed, I had a child (him), was in college while working two jobs and had used the small inheritance I'd received to put a downpayment on a very small fixer-upper house. Things sure weren't easy but I did what I had to do and made a life for myself and my child. It never would have occurred to me to expect someone else to take care of things for me. There is so much entitlement in today's kids and it's not just related to drug use. I see it in friends kids who are doing well too. I know it's our fault... Giving our kids too much, expecting too little of them, making sure every kid got a trophy even if the team never won a single game. I think we tried so hard to protect their self esteem that we forgot that its also our job to teach them about self reliance, accountability, etc. Add a drug addiction on top of the ingrained feelings of entitlement and you get the perfect storm with us co-de parents stuck in its path (until we realize all we have to do is step aside to get out of its way.. Seemingly easy solution but not so easy to execute).
When I was his age both of my parents had already passed, I had a child (him), was in college while working two jobs and had used the small inheritance I'd received to put a downpayment on a very small fixer-upper house. Things sure weren't easy but I did what I had to do and made a life for myself and my child. It never would have occurred to me to expect someone else to take care of things for me. There is so much entitlement in today's kids and it's not just related to drug use. I see it in friends kids who are doing well too. I know it's our fault... Giving our kids too much, expecting too little of them, making sure every kid got a trophy even if the team never won a single game. I think we tried so hard to protect their self esteem that we forgot that its also our job to teach them about self reliance, accountability, etc. Add a drug addiction on top of the ingrained feelings of entitlement and you get the perfect storm with us co-de parents stuck in its path (until we realize all we have to do is step aside to get out of its way.. Seemingly easy solution but not so easy to execute).
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Heart we were posting at the same time and I am amazed at how similar our posts are! When I was my son's age I had 15 years senority at my job. I worked full time and went to college to get us out of poverty while raising 2 by myself. He quit his job last year to go to college full time, who in the h*** did he think was going to support him. My son's thinking scares me, but I am getting much better at detaching!
OMG I never thought about getting food for him as enabling!!! I would have never questioned it!
I left home at an early age and I would have had absolutely NO ONE to call and say I am hungry, help me. I also had to support two small ones on a clerical salary.
We watched a National Geographics documentary last night and it made me think how hard I worked to make sure my children had more chances and a better life. One appreciated it and the other at almost 34 thinks it entitles him forever.
We (me) as a group has crippled these kids by trying to hard to help them. Hind sight of couse, sigh, but it's never too late to learn.
I am reading codependency and enabling books, I wish they had been available when I had my children.
Thank all of you for your honest posts, you are helping me. I also wonder where my son is and if he has food. I was so happy when the weather gave us a mild winter so he will not be cold if he is homeless.
But, I too amd getting better!!
OMG I never thought about getting food for him as enabling!!! I would have never questioned it!
I left home at an early age and I would have had absolutely NO ONE to call and say I am hungry, help me. I also had to support two small ones on a clerical salary.
We watched a National Geographics documentary last night and it made me think how hard I worked to make sure my children had more chances and a better life. One appreciated it and the other at almost 34 thinks it entitles him forever.
We (me) as a group has crippled these kids by trying to hard to help them. Hind sight of couse, sigh, but it's never too late to learn.
I am reading codependency and enabling books, I wish they had been available when I had my children.
Thank all of you for your honest posts, you are helping me. I also wonder where my son is and if he has food. I was so happy when the weather gave us a mild winter so he will not be cold if he is homeless.
But, I too amd getting better!!
Last edited by helpme33; 03-25-2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason: add to message
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To feed or not to feed…
What a bizarre question so many struggle with…all this attachment, enabling, not enabling, and if I feed them will they and if I don’t will they … and if I feed them what does it make me, and if I don’t what does it make me…oh all that needs to be removed, and big time.
My son was quite clear on all boundaries, he got them from day one and I didn’t deviate at all. He knew where I stood, and he knew I was more than fair and why I had the boundaries to begin with. I not only never asked him to stop using, but I never did ultimatums either. I used two things to guide me one, my life experience as the child using and all the reactions to me, be them helpful or a hindrance…the other was everyone else’s experience in dealing with a child using. I took the worst of the worst in terms of a child in 5, 10 years, and read the parents point of view of what they did and were still doing all these years later and did the exact opposite …
In terms of food my son had an open invitation to dinner after he was out of the house. There were no conditions placed on this invitation, no motives attached to it either.
And even with this understood I still received many phone calls weekly of I am hungry can I get some money to eat…
In looking at the whole picture the truth showed from the get go. My son never from day one came to eat on any of those days he called for money because he was hungry, he also rarely came when he wasn’t looking for cash. Yet the invitation always stood.
It was always heart breaking and sad, cause I knew the truth from the second money was asked for and where it would go despite any good intentions that might have been present.
I stopped picking out anyone’s truth from their lies a long time ago ( my own truth and lies were way more important), how do I know who is hungry, who isn’t…
But one thing I do know is that if one is truly hungry any money that is given to them in all likelihood will go to drugs…the craving for the drug will override any feeling of hunger the second money hits their hands. It sure shows another truth in this and how sad, how very sad it all is.
What a bizarre question so many struggle with…all this attachment, enabling, not enabling, and if I feed them will they and if I don’t will they … and if I feed them what does it make me, and if I don’t what does it make me…oh all that needs to be removed, and big time.
My son was quite clear on all boundaries, he got them from day one and I didn’t deviate at all. He knew where I stood, and he knew I was more than fair and why I had the boundaries to begin with. I not only never asked him to stop using, but I never did ultimatums either. I used two things to guide me one, my life experience as the child using and all the reactions to me, be them helpful or a hindrance…the other was everyone else’s experience in dealing with a child using. I took the worst of the worst in terms of a child in 5, 10 years, and read the parents point of view of what they did and were still doing all these years later and did the exact opposite …
In terms of food my son had an open invitation to dinner after he was out of the house. There were no conditions placed on this invitation, no motives attached to it either.
And even with this understood I still received many phone calls weekly of I am hungry can I get some money to eat…
In looking at the whole picture the truth showed from the get go. My son never from day one came to eat on any of those days he called for money because he was hungry, he also rarely came when he wasn’t looking for cash. Yet the invitation always stood.
It was always heart breaking and sad, cause I knew the truth from the second money was asked for and where it would go despite any good intentions that might have been present.
I stopped picking out anyone’s truth from their lies a long time ago ( my own truth and lies were way more important), how do I know who is hungry, who isn’t…
But one thing I do know is that if one is truly hungry any money that is given to them in all likelihood will go to drugs…the craving for the drug will override any feeling of hunger the second money hits their hands. It sure shows another truth in this and how sad, how very sad it all is.
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