Disease of Perception/Crazy Making! (LONG post! as usual)
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
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Disease of Perception/Crazy Making! (LONG post! as usual)
In AA we have the saying "we will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it".
My own addictions (I'm in AA and codependent as well) and my slow progress in recovery has taught me that I have a "disease of perception". In the process of recovery and seeking peace and well being I am trying to balance my perception. When I look back over my distressed relationship I can have very different feelings about it, and myself.
I have been reflecting a lot on my own behavior and experience over the last 2+ years. In romantic relationships some of our deepest personal issues/life lessons get triggered and bubble up to the surface where, in a healthy setting, we can integrate and become more whole as human beings.
I believe that having these natural psychological processes take place in the confusing and frustrating "splittedness", which is being in relationship with someone in active addiction, causes trauma. I believe that becoming a deeper and more integrated human being involves being vulnerable, but when we are vulnerable with an addict we are in danger.
For me, my own gift of vulnerability started to become split in relation to the addiction. love/hate; compassion/frustration; come back/get out...on and on. I suffered from the fact that I could SEE the beautiful spirit of the person I love and partner with him in so many ways... he had amazing listening skills and many years in the rooms of recovery so he also spoke that essentially spiritual language, and he was studying psychology so he had diagnostic skills...
DANGER!
Because of these beautiful skills, (and my own deep and abiding interest in them as well) we would have very soulful talks. I now realize that when he was "good" he was understanding and we worked on ourselves together...but when he was "bad" he would use this language to "diagnose" me, he would blame me and tell me how many issues I had, and then he would blame me saying that I was just so hard to deal with and that it was his codependency with me that was part of "why" he used.
Now in these first weeks of real separation I am left with this haunting perception. I am haunted by the idea that I am just a giant bundle of freakish issues. I am afraid that I am a huge mess that was undercover until I met him and then all of this stuff has shown up. (re: he told me I am a "narcissistic abuser") I feel like I have allowed myself to be in a whiplashing traumatic life for over two years, and I'm afraid that the consequences (my feeling of shaky mental health) are not going to go away. I get paranoid that now I have become bi-polar (that's what the whiplash looks like) or that I am borderline (wasn't my telling him to leave and then taking him back just like him getting into recovery and then going back out?). I am afraid.
If a big part of addiction is a "disease of perception" then I feel like maybe it is just my alcoholic/codependent dangerous tendency to look in the negative direction and that if I would use spiritual principles to stay in the moment, practice gratitude and look at the positive that I would be okay. But I don't know, maybe that's just denial. My therapist says to be careful of taking a "spiritual bypass" to get around issues.
It's a lot to try to figure out and find peace with. I wonder if others here are suffering as much with themselves in the aftermath of relationship.
It's like a psycho spiritual light switch going on and off, having been in relationship that way jerks back and forth...think of repetitive stress injuries, or a baby being shaken too hard. That is how my spirit/psyche has been living...repetitive whiplash.
My own addictions (I'm in AA and codependent as well) and my slow progress in recovery has taught me that I have a "disease of perception". In the process of recovery and seeking peace and well being I am trying to balance my perception. When I look back over my distressed relationship I can have very different feelings about it, and myself.
I have been reflecting a lot on my own behavior and experience over the last 2+ years. In romantic relationships some of our deepest personal issues/life lessons get triggered and bubble up to the surface where, in a healthy setting, we can integrate and become more whole as human beings.
I believe that having these natural psychological processes take place in the confusing and frustrating "splittedness", which is being in relationship with someone in active addiction, causes trauma. I believe that becoming a deeper and more integrated human being involves being vulnerable, but when we are vulnerable with an addict we are in danger.
For me, my own gift of vulnerability started to become split in relation to the addiction. love/hate; compassion/frustration; come back/get out...on and on. I suffered from the fact that I could SEE the beautiful spirit of the person I love and partner with him in so many ways... he had amazing listening skills and many years in the rooms of recovery so he also spoke that essentially spiritual language, and he was studying psychology so he had diagnostic skills...
DANGER!
Because of these beautiful skills, (and my own deep and abiding interest in them as well) we would have very soulful talks. I now realize that when he was "good" he was understanding and we worked on ourselves together...but when he was "bad" he would use this language to "diagnose" me, he would blame me and tell me how many issues I had, and then he would blame me saying that I was just so hard to deal with and that it was his codependency with me that was part of "why" he used.
Now in these first weeks of real separation I am left with this haunting perception. I am haunted by the idea that I am just a giant bundle of freakish issues. I am afraid that I am a huge mess that was undercover until I met him and then all of this stuff has shown up. (re: he told me I am a "narcissistic abuser") I feel like I have allowed myself to be in a whiplashing traumatic life for over two years, and I'm afraid that the consequences (my feeling of shaky mental health) are not going to go away. I get paranoid that now I have become bi-polar (that's what the whiplash looks like) or that I am borderline (wasn't my telling him to leave and then taking him back just like him getting into recovery and then going back out?). I am afraid.
If a big part of addiction is a "disease of perception" then I feel like maybe it is just my alcoholic/codependent dangerous tendency to look in the negative direction and that if I would use spiritual principles to stay in the moment, practice gratitude and look at the positive that I would be okay. But I don't know, maybe that's just denial. My therapist says to be careful of taking a "spiritual bypass" to get around issues.
It's a lot to try to figure out and find peace with. I wonder if others here are suffering as much with themselves in the aftermath of relationship.
It's like a psycho spiritual light switch going on and off, having been in relationship that way jerks back and forth...think of repetitive stress injuries, or a baby being shaken too hard. That is how my spirit/psyche has been living...repetitive whiplash.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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I'm sorry for your fears, Leslie, and have had many of the same. Even when we do the right action--staying away from a dangerous man--we may still have months, years, of involuntary emotions like intense panic, grief, loss of hope for our lives, hate, unbearable longing.
My experience in recovery is that sometimes the program can be so programmed that it is impatient with the long, necessary, coming to the surface of our deep self and our hidden emotions, the ones we carry since childhood and which have not seen the light of day. Usually trauma shakes those awake and up they come. We feel we might be coming apart. Carl Jung would say this is absolutely essential to the development of the true person we must find inside us. That we just live false lives until we shake out these hidden dark issues down deep and bring them in the light of day and deal with them.
They say we either think it out or act it out. Either we face these old buried wounds which distort who we are, either we think and talk through and heal them. Or we just keep acting out the same repetitive story and find people who will hurt us in the same way we always expected. Think it out or act it out.
But Americans don't like that kind of work. We are a culture that cannot stand the unknown, cannot stand being suspended, and when someone is in pain and confusion which is perhaps lasting years, and is facing it rather than running away from it, people in our culture see that as being unwell rather than as being really well!
When one tends to the deep soul, and allows time for all the demons to come out, and we clean out the mud we have inside, we are what Jung called "individuating." Finding the authentic self. You probably know that already.
Americans hate the delays and setbacks of soul work! And I find that sometimes people in the recovery program can, too. The program hands the person a "workbook of sane responses" and expects the person to get better absolutely right now and to get rid of all that confusion and pain and panic and hopelessness right now. As if all those emotions are bad. And I believe (because I work with a Jungian therapist) all those emotions are in fact gold. They can lead us somewhere good.
We all have splittedness inside us. It's just that most people avoid theirs. They escape in every way possible dealing with the split, the extremes inside them. Events in their lives come along--like a painful, intense love relationship with a crack addict--that bring all the primal stuff to the surface: gut emotions, hate, jealousy, lust, selfishness, rage--and some in the recovery program might tell them they are wrong to feel this. That they should be more sane and think logically and rationally.
Well, Jung would say, these times of inner earthquakes are precisely what the soul needs for its development. And that we need to embrace the confusion, ride it out, hold on, feel the intensity and the split, and ask God to lead us through it and not around. This is the path of the hero.
In America, people expect someone to be all better in a few months. Maybe 6 months. A year at most.
Sometimes this soul work takes years. And it is often dark and scary.
In recovery we take right actions for our safety. We should. We stay away from active addicts because they are, in the most practical terms, dangerous. And there is structure available (12 Step programs) for those whose lives are so shattered by addicts that we need shoring in. We need that containment: No contact is containment. Meetings at a certain time and day every week is containment. Therapy at a certain time and day every week. Reading of recovery literature. SR. This contains us and keeps us functioning in the real world.
But Jung would say that to get to the light you have to make a long and painful descent into the dark. So while we are contained, we also have to allow for our primal emotions to be felt and dealt with.
I know this is not our usual SR talk (!), but you have such a deep mind and are a seeker.
I struggle the same way. And I'm holding on. I'm exhausted. It's been a long road.
Since you also are an alcoholic, it's important you maintain structure and containment in AA, as you do. You can do both. You can stay sober and you can feel all the gut level primal feelings. too. You can have sobriety and still feel everything. You don't have to be serene every day. You don't have to feel at-one-ment every day. Soul work is messy! It often hurts.
I struggle with painful feelings and fears very often. I have been in therapy for 6 years and recovery for 12 years. But my soul still needs plenty of attention and my head still needs a lot of work. And nothing brought that out more clearly to me than my relationship in recent years with a heroin addict. (In long recovery when we met, probably relapsed currently).
I hope my work will lead me eventually to freedom. I would like to be able to say what I need, what I want, what I feel. I would like to be able to do that without anxiety that someone will leave me or hate me. I would like to feel good about who I am. I would like to be able to cut through the bull****. I would like an honest deep relationship with a man. I would like to have no regrets.
But today, well, I may feel like a wreck! We'll see! And that will still be okay. I will sit and try to figure it out.
My experience in recovery is that sometimes the program can be so programmed that it is impatient with the long, necessary, coming to the surface of our deep self and our hidden emotions, the ones we carry since childhood and which have not seen the light of day. Usually trauma shakes those awake and up they come. We feel we might be coming apart. Carl Jung would say this is absolutely essential to the development of the true person we must find inside us. That we just live false lives until we shake out these hidden dark issues down deep and bring them in the light of day and deal with them.
They say we either think it out or act it out. Either we face these old buried wounds which distort who we are, either we think and talk through and heal them. Or we just keep acting out the same repetitive story and find people who will hurt us in the same way we always expected. Think it out or act it out.
But Americans don't like that kind of work. We are a culture that cannot stand the unknown, cannot stand being suspended, and when someone is in pain and confusion which is perhaps lasting years, and is facing it rather than running away from it, people in our culture see that as being unwell rather than as being really well!
When one tends to the deep soul, and allows time for all the demons to come out, and we clean out the mud we have inside, we are what Jung called "individuating." Finding the authentic self. You probably know that already.
Americans hate the delays and setbacks of soul work! And I find that sometimes people in the recovery program can, too. The program hands the person a "workbook of sane responses" and expects the person to get better absolutely right now and to get rid of all that confusion and pain and panic and hopelessness right now. As if all those emotions are bad. And I believe (because I work with a Jungian therapist) all those emotions are in fact gold. They can lead us somewhere good.
We all have splittedness inside us. It's just that most people avoid theirs. They escape in every way possible dealing with the split, the extremes inside them. Events in their lives come along--like a painful, intense love relationship with a crack addict--that bring all the primal stuff to the surface: gut emotions, hate, jealousy, lust, selfishness, rage--and some in the recovery program might tell them they are wrong to feel this. That they should be more sane and think logically and rationally.
Well, Jung would say, these times of inner earthquakes are precisely what the soul needs for its development. And that we need to embrace the confusion, ride it out, hold on, feel the intensity and the split, and ask God to lead us through it and not around. This is the path of the hero.
In America, people expect someone to be all better in a few months. Maybe 6 months. A year at most.
Sometimes this soul work takes years. And it is often dark and scary.
In recovery we take right actions for our safety. We should. We stay away from active addicts because they are, in the most practical terms, dangerous. And there is structure available (12 Step programs) for those whose lives are so shattered by addicts that we need shoring in. We need that containment: No contact is containment. Meetings at a certain time and day every week is containment. Therapy at a certain time and day every week. Reading of recovery literature. SR. This contains us and keeps us functioning in the real world.
But Jung would say that to get to the light you have to make a long and painful descent into the dark. So while we are contained, we also have to allow for our primal emotions to be felt and dealt with.
I know this is not our usual SR talk (!), but you have such a deep mind and are a seeker.
I struggle the same way. And I'm holding on. I'm exhausted. It's been a long road.
Since you also are an alcoholic, it's important you maintain structure and containment in AA, as you do. You can do both. You can stay sober and you can feel all the gut level primal feelings. too. You can have sobriety and still feel everything. You don't have to be serene every day. You don't have to feel at-one-ment every day. Soul work is messy! It often hurts.
I struggle with painful feelings and fears very often. I have been in therapy for 6 years and recovery for 12 years. But my soul still needs plenty of attention and my head still needs a lot of work. And nothing brought that out more clearly to me than my relationship in recent years with a heroin addict. (In long recovery when we met, probably relapsed currently).
I hope my work will lead me eventually to freedom. I would like to be able to say what I need, what I want, what I feel. I would like to be able to do that without anxiety that someone will leave me or hate me. I would like to feel good about who I am. I would like to be able to cut through the bull****. I would like an honest deep relationship with a man. I would like to have no regrets.
But today, well, I may feel like a wreck! We'll see! And that will still be okay. I will sit and try to figure it out.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
"I am haunted by the idea that I am just a giant bundle of freakish issues."
Leslie, I sure was. I can honestly say I'm not any more, after owning all of the stuff in my life. Not just events in my life, but all my responses to them. I stopped fearing being a freak when I fearlessly explored the possibility.
English Garden, that was an amazing post. Before my daughter's addiction, I had been off and on in therapy for a total of 5 years. There were so many things I was healing from. It took her addiction and my love for her, to propel me forward again. It's taken me 10 years total now, but I finally 100% fearlessly love and accept me again. And I'm able to fearlessly love others again, too.
There's a whole lot of willingness and courage in this topic and, with them, there is no failure. Only success
Leslie, I sure was. I can honestly say I'm not any more, after owning all of the stuff in my life. Not just events in my life, but all my responses to them. I stopped fearing being a freak when I fearlessly explored the possibility.
English Garden, that was an amazing post. Before my daughter's addiction, I had been off and on in therapy for a total of 5 years. There were so many things I was healing from. It took her addiction and my love for her, to propel me forward again. It's taken me 10 years total now, but I finally 100% fearlessly love and accept me again. And I'm able to fearlessly love others again, too.
There's a whole lot of willingness and courage in this topic and, with them, there is no failure. Only success
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Another Earth
Posts: 172
So well put English Garden. For me, I look forward to the "containment" of my Al Anon meetings, my morning spiritual ritual, journaling, coming to the SR boards yet I also subscribe to Jung's thoughts in doing my own soul work. I spent years trying to deny my shadow side, feeling very shamed by it. I believe now that the only way to work on the darker aspects of my personality - fear, guilt, jealousy, to name a few- is to bring them into the light, accept them and give them love. They are part of me, and probably always will be, but when I have those moments I am working on embracing them, addressing them and just riding it out. Doing this has helped me gain insight into my own issues.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
(((((leslie)))))
Being a sober alkie all the years I have been, I see you doing some over the top analyzing. Be VERY CAREFUL that you do not end up in ANALYSIS/PARALYSIS.
We get through the 'off kilter' perceptions we had by doing a 4th and 5th step. Yes, I have done many. I do one every 5 years for my sobriety, and I have done about 3 so far for my codependent side of the coin.
This is one of the 12 promises in the AA Big Book on pages 83 and 84.
What it has always meant to me is that I got past the 'perceptions of my reality' at that time and found the reality. Once I found the reality, acknowledged it, either in my 'list of defects' and/or my amends list, the promise came true. I could now use my past as an Experience as part of MY ES&H.
You are putting an awful lot of credence on 'stuff' said by someone who is:
1) Living in a false reality
2) Hears what he wants to hear not what is being said
and
3) Is a very sick practicing addict.
You are not the same person you were when you started your recovery journey. How about staying in the now!
Here is what I do, and trust me it helps stop the 'over analyzing and doesn't allow me too much time to analyze everything:
Every day, to the best of my ability (and yes some days are better or worse than other) I practice thoughtfulness, kindness, and consideration with all who cross my path, and I also treat all who cross my path as I would like to be treated.
It is easy to remember. It's got The 12 Steps, The 10 Commandments, and The Golden Rule all wrapped in that simple way to live.
You might want to try it, I can testify that not only does it work, it has been working form me for almost 29 years now (yep it took me a couple of years to figure it out, lol)
Hope that helps a bit.
Love and hugs,
Being a sober alkie all the years I have been, I see you doing some over the top analyzing. Be VERY CAREFUL that you do not end up in ANALYSIS/PARALYSIS.
We get through the 'off kilter' perceptions we had by doing a 4th and 5th step. Yes, I have done many. I do one every 5 years for my sobriety, and I have done about 3 so far for my codependent side of the coin.
"we will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it".
What it has always meant to me is that I got past the 'perceptions of my reality' at that time and found the reality. Once I found the reality, acknowledged it, either in my 'list of defects' and/or my amends list, the promise came true. I could now use my past as an Experience as part of MY ES&H.
but when he was "bad" he would use this language to "diagnose" me, he would blame me and tell me how many issues I had, and then he would blame me saying that I was just so hard to deal with and that it was his codependency with me that was part of "why" he used.........................................re: he told me I am a "narcissistic abuser"
1) Living in a false reality
2) Hears what he wants to hear not what is being said
and
3) Is a very sick practicing addict.
You are not the same person you were when you started your recovery journey. How about staying in the now!
Here is what I do, and trust me it helps stop the 'over analyzing and doesn't allow me too much time to analyze everything:
Every day, to the best of my ability (and yes some days are better or worse than other) I practice thoughtfulness, kindness, and consideration with all who cross my path, and I also treat all who cross my path as I would like to be treated.
It is easy to remember. It's got The 12 Steps, The 10 Commandments, and The Golden Rule all wrapped in that simple way to live.
You might want to try it, I can testify that not only does it work, it has been working form me for almost 29 years now (yep it took me a couple of years to figure it out, lol)
Hope that helps a bit.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 180
Leslie, I'm not nearly in as many years of realizing the world of addiction/codependancy. I started reading last summer on addiction, codependancy, disorders, etc. I have been in no contact with my ex for less than a week and this past week has been horrible because many of the reasons you listed. I thank God I am not alone and your post made me feel so much more at peace. The last few months I was honestly questioning my own sanity, thinking am I the borderline? Am I the narcissist (which yes, he did tell me that I was). Am I really hypervigilant? I started buying books, I started diagnosing him and me. I started to panic that maybe I am the one who has the issues.
I finally went back into therapy this past week and will go again this week. She told me that I had learned how to "split" and that made me panic that I was the Borderline. So I started wondering more if it were me. At some point it gets exhausting. I think my ex made me question my own sanity. Yes, I did love/hate him. Yes, I did push/pull. Yes I did go from extreme periods of idealizing him to hating him. Then you wonder, is it me that's borderline? Then I have to remember, NO it's not me, it was his behavior TOWARDS ME. It's so hard. I just had a HUGE wake up call reading your post that is a big break through for me. They bring these reactions out of us and they are so out of character that we begin to doubt ourselves. Oh, and yes, I was called a narcissist and at one point just this morning started reading about narcissistic abusers believing in what he had told me. I literally fell onto a website that used that exact term.....narcissistic abuser.
My own therapist told me that there are deeper issues that I am struggling with. The splitting is coming from a deeper place, from somewhere deeper that I need to tap into my soul, like EG said. Well, Jung would say, these times of inner earthquakes are precisely what the soul needs for its development. And that we need to embrace the confusion, ride it out, hold on, feel the intensity and the split, and ask God to lead us through it and not around. This is the path of the hero. I think for me, this is the most powerful post I've read so far since I've been on here.
I finally went back into therapy this past week and will go again this week. She told me that I had learned how to "split" and that made me panic that I was the Borderline. So I started wondering more if it were me. At some point it gets exhausting. I think my ex made me question my own sanity. Yes, I did love/hate him. Yes, I did push/pull. Yes I did go from extreme periods of idealizing him to hating him. Then you wonder, is it me that's borderline? Then I have to remember, NO it's not me, it was his behavior TOWARDS ME. It's so hard. I just had a HUGE wake up call reading your post that is a big break through for me. They bring these reactions out of us and they are so out of character that we begin to doubt ourselves. Oh, and yes, I was called a narcissist and at one point just this morning started reading about narcissistic abusers believing in what he had told me. I literally fell onto a website that used that exact term.....narcissistic abuser.
My own therapist told me that there are deeper issues that I am struggling with. The splitting is coming from a deeper place, from somewhere deeper that I need to tap into my soul, like EG said. Well, Jung would say, these times of inner earthquakes are precisely what the soul needs for its development. And that we need to embrace the confusion, ride it out, hold on, feel the intensity and the split, and ask God to lead us through it and not around. This is the path of the hero. I think for me, this is the most powerful post I've read so far since I've been on here.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 924
Thank you all so much for the attentiveness and care. It has been a day of delving deep, had a long walk with my sponsor and went over a lot of things. I feel like I woke up in somewhat of a post traumatic crisis this morning. It is so good to have a place to express concerns and fears honestly and openly and then come home hours later and find care filled responsiveness that helps to heal.
English Garden I feel as though we could sit for hours and talk about our common interest! You speak my language and it such a beautiful surprise to find your thoughtful response.
I, too, have a Jungian therapist and am a long avid armchair fan of him and also of Joseph Campbell (the hero's path...). This is part of the reason I like to use archetypal myths to illustrate for me (jekyll/hyde, werewolves, and Pandora's box with it's spites and hope). I have found different points in time over half my life when I have been in places of transition, growth and transformation...all part of the integration and individuation that you, English Garden, so beautifully speak to. These earthquake periods are opportunities to delve, and yes, I believe that delving deep is best done with containment...
Containment: fellowship (friends who have witnessed my life over the last six years of AA and two years with my ex) an awesome sponsor, a solid therapist, lots and lots and lots of reading, friends and family who study and practice CD counseling...yes, very fortunate. I have also had the opportunity to take a 5 day and 3 day retreats that were super intense "delvers".
Anvil mentioned the opportunity to do a 4th and 5th step...and I think that that is precisely what I have been doing. I think it is essential to ones well being to know what is and is not yours to own, to understand, to know your own self/motives/patterns…and to undertake this process with love and guidance.
Sorting through, rehashing,seeking, examining...cleaning my side of the street, taking ownership, seeking self awareness, deconstructing resentments...the list goes on.
Solid containment is necessary, my own "disease of perception" needs readjustment, and often.
I will shame and blame myself more than you can imagine. That is probably why I get so sensitive to it here...and that is why I often try to share a message of concern regarding shame. My sponsor totally understood where I was at today. The affects of trauma combined with grief are intense, I will start to own too much, and when I do that I doubt my own sense of spirit, joy and love, and resort to self beratement. (resentments with self)
She reminded me that as someone who totally ANALYZES everything (as Laurie said Analysis Paralysis!) I can dig my Virgo hole way deeper than it needs to be. I can start gathering evidence and labeling and judging myself because I am confused and bewildered (addiction!) and that I do NOT need, or will NOT be able to understand some of it...because it is cunning, baffling and powerful. SO cunning that I will shame myself by labeling myself and do it under the guise of seeking self awareness...re: 4th step.
This is the essence of shame, that one can take on too much, own too much… and why when you go delving into the depths, through the cracks, into the center of your labyrinth to meet your demons…you need the WE of the program, the golden thread, the guideposts of spiritual, psychological and emotional principles and well being… so that you don’t get lost in the maze and beat yourself up.
This is the danger of splittedness…that the pain is so great that you will repress the part of yourself that needs attention in the traumatic crisis. Chances are that it is the part of yourself that will keep showing up in relationship after relationship…until some love and healing takes place. The splittedness that I experienced with my ex is that he loved that part of me, I could feel it…but then his addiction would cause him to disappear. As my therapist says “he SAW me”… he got me, and he loved me. I was able to bring that part of myself to the surface with him. I wanted him to also do that for his own healing…to allow himself to bring his dark sense of self to the surface…to the light.
Now that I have made the painful decision to separate I need to hold onto that part of me…the part that needs love. In the midst of the pain of the separation I could lose all the work I have done to bring that old wounded part of myself forward and heal. I could lose all of the work I have done to a false sense of shame and blame.
In the midst of the pain I could find it easier to deny the love I felt…call it a fantasy…blame it as enabling…suspect it as being false because I couldn’t stay in the relationship. If I do not hold onto that part of myself, reclaim it, own my part, own my love, and my hope, my fantasy, my dream, my misconceptions of someone else’s capacity to sustain recovery…if I don’t own this part then I am in danger of disassociating…splitting that part of myself… in order to get rid of the pain and the blame, and send it back down into the depths.
Take that essence of shame and add trauma to it and don’t be surprised if symptoms of mental illness on Wikipedia start looking familiar! Madison…may I suggest from my own experience today…the self diagnosis and labeling is not healthy. Seek self awareness in caring for your self and finding support in doing so. As my sponsor said…quit seeking the labels and seek healing! Quit seeking shame and seek support and love.
I have come a long way on this journey today. I have lost the need to label myself…for now, and I hope I can continue to practice this letting go. I have lost the fear of my own well being because I have faith in my own courage, hope, and ability to love. I have lost the need to blame myself because I have had assistance with my disease of perception…my sponsor, and you lovely people here on SR help me to see with ever more clarity.
As English said…integrate, individualize…own yourself and as Anvil said do it with a 4th step understanding, and as Laurie said about her simple measures…the golden rule, in furthering my acceptance of self today, I have also lost the need to label my ex with blame and resentments. I let go just a little bit more. I surrendered a little bit more.
English Garden I feel as though we could sit for hours and talk about our common interest! You speak my language and it such a beautiful surprise to find your thoughtful response.
I, too, have a Jungian therapist and am a long avid armchair fan of him and also of Joseph Campbell (the hero's path...). This is part of the reason I like to use archetypal myths to illustrate for me (jekyll/hyde, werewolves, and Pandora's box with it's spites and hope). I have found different points in time over half my life when I have been in places of transition, growth and transformation...all part of the integration and individuation that you, English Garden, so beautifully speak to. These earthquake periods are opportunities to delve, and yes, I believe that delving deep is best done with containment...
Containment: fellowship (friends who have witnessed my life over the last six years of AA and two years with my ex) an awesome sponsor, a solid therapist, lots and lots and lots of reading, friends and family who study and practice CD counseling...yes, very fortunate. I have also had the opportunity to take a 5 day and 3 day retreats that were super intense "delvers".
Anvil mentioned the opportunity to do a 4th and 5th step...and I think that that is precisely what I have been doing. I think it is essential to ones well being to know what is and is not yours to own, to understand, to know your own self/motives/patterns…and to undertake this process with love and guidance.
Sorting through, rehashing,seeking, examining...cleaning my side of the street, taking ownership, seeking self awareness, deconstructing resentments...the list goes on.
Solid containment is necessary, my own "disease of perception" needs readjustment, and often.
I will shame and blame myself more than you can imagine. That is probably why I get so sensitive to it here...and that is why I often try to share a message of concern regarding shame. My sponsor totally understood where I was at today. The affects of trauma combined with grief are intense, I will start to own too much, and when I do that I doubt my own sense of spirit, joy and love, and resort to self beratement. (resentments with self)
She reminded me that as someone who totally ANALYZES everything (as Laurie said Analysis Paralysis!) I can dig my Virgo hole way deeper than it needs to be. I can start gathering evidence and labeling and judging myself because I am confused and bewildered (addiction!) and that I do NOT need, or will NOT be able to understand some of it...because it is cunning, baffling and powerful. SO cunning that I will shame myself by labeling myself and do it under the guise of seeking self awareness...re: 4th step.
This is the essence of shame, that one can take on too much, own too much… and why when you go delving into the depths, through the cracks, into the center of your labyrinth to meet your demons…you need the WE of the program, the golden thread, the guideposts of spiritual, psychological and emotional principles and well being… so that you don’t get lost in the maze and beat yourself up.
This is the danger of splittedness…that the pain is so great that you will repress the part of yourself that needs attention in the traumatic crisis. Chances are that it is the part of yourself that will keep showing up in relationship after relationship…until some love and healing takes place. The splittedness that I experienced with my ex is that he loved that part of me, I could feel it…but then his addiction would cause him to disappear. As my therapist says “he SAW me”… he got me, and he loved me. I was able to bring that part of myself to the surface with him. I wanted him to also do that for his own healing…to allow himself to bring his dark sense of self to the surface…to the light.
Now that I have made the painful decision to separate I need to hold onto that part of me…the part that needs love. In the midst of the pain of the separation I could lose all the work I have done to bring that old wounded part of myself forward and heal. I could lose all of the work I have done to a false sense of shame and blame.
In the midst of the pain I could find it easier to deny the love I felt…call it a fantasy…blame it as enabling…suspect it as being false because I couldn’t stay in the relationship. If I do not hold onto that part of myself, reclaim it, own my part, own my love, and my hope, my fantasy, my dream, my misconceptions of someone else’s capacity to sustain recovery…if I don’t own this part then I am in danger of disassociating…splitting that part of myself… in order to get rid of the pain and the blame, and send it back down into the depths.
Take that essence of shame and add trauma to it and don’t be surprised if symptoms of mental illness on Wikipedia start looking familiar! Madison…may I suggest from my own experience today…the self diagnosis and labeling is not healthy. Seek self awareness in caring for your self and finding support in doing so. As my sponsor said…quit seeking the labels and seek healing! Quit seeking shame and seek support and love.
I have come a long way on this journey today. I have lost the need to label myself…for now, and I hope I can continue to practice this letting go. I have lost the fear of my own well being because I have faith in my own courage, hope, and ability to love. I have lost the need to blame myself because I have had assistance with my disease of perception…my sponsor, and you lovely people here on SR help me to see with ever more clarity.
As English said…integrate, individualize…own yourself and as Anvil said do it with a 4th step understanding, and as Laurie said about her simple measures…the golden rule, in furthering my acceptance of self today, I have also lost the need to label my ex with blame and resentments. I let go just a little bit more. I surrendered a little bit more.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
So glad you speak of the self-blame and shame that works to destroy us. LeslieJ. I'm also glad you want to own the love you have for you exabf. We all have to understand that when someone comes to SR in pain because she has fallen in love with and has been hurt by an addict, the fact that she loved him and still loves him is nothing to be ashamed of.
You speak of Joseph Campbell. And he says that the opening of the heart to another is what distinguishes human from animal. That animals are motivated by animal instincts--survival and perpetuation of the species--but what makes us different is that we open our hearts to another.
I think maybe when we are with the addict we love, and he opens his heart to us--though not for long-- that is when we connect with genuine feeling. And when, in his addiction, he slips back, his brain slips back, into the animal way, that is when we experience electrocution and disbelief. He is something different. And he has no longer an open heart, or, it seems, any heart at all. In the fairytale this would be, I suppose, when the beautiful man changes into the beast. What a tremendous shock. Modern horror films play on this theme, too. "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" has a chilling ending along those lines. This is a story that has always been a part of the human experience.
But the addicts which bring us to SR are still human beings with transcendent and eternal souls, and we know that, and some of us here have experienced genuine connection with and deep love for an addict, soul-to-soul. If the parents of addicts are allowed to say "I love my addict child with all my heart", then why cannot we say the same about ours? Some addict-codependent relationships are illusion from start to finish. But some have times of meaningful connection, even though it is impossible to sustain.
So I hope you will continue to let go any shame for opening your heart to someone you saw and knew as beautiful. Like anyone, he has his shadow and his light. You've seen both. They are so split that it makes you feel split. Believe me, I think many here at SR know exactly what it is to feel one's mind is cracking! I think in psychology that is called "cognitive dissonance?" Well, whether or not that's the right term, I've definitely got a jar full of it!
Wishing you a good Spring weekend. Persephone--the young maiden in mythology who is pulled into Hell and who loses her innocence--well, she's allowed to return to the surface now. After a long and painful stay in the Underworld, with the dark ruler who ripped away her innocence, she finally is allowed to see flowers again. She will never ever be the same innocent young girl she once was. She knows too much now. Pain and betrayal have transformed her into a different woman.
But she does still love Spring.
You speak of Joseph Campbell. And he says that the opening of the heart to another is what distinguishes human from animal. That animals are motivated by animal instincts--survival and perpetuation of the species--but what makes us different is that we open our hearts to another.
I think maybe when we are with the addict we love, and he opens his heart to us--though not for long-- that is when we connect with genuine feeling. And when, in his addiction, he slips back, his brain slips back, into the animal way, that is when we experience electrocution and disbelief. He is something different. And he has no longer an open heart, or, it seems, any heart at all. In the fairytale this would be, I suppose, when the beautiful man changes into the beast. What a tremendous shock. Modern horror films play on this theme, too. "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" has a chilling ending along those lines. This is a story that has always been a part of the human experience.
But the addicts which bring us to SR are still human beings with transcendent and eternal souls, and we know that, and some of us here have experienced genuine connection with and deep love for an addict, soul-to-soul. If the parents of addicts are allowed to say "I love my addict child with all my heart", then why cannot we say the same about ours? Some addict-codependent relationships are illusion from start to finish. But some have times of meaningful connection, even though it is impossible to sustain.
So I hope you will continue to let go any shame for opening your heart to someone you saw and knew as beautiful. Like anyone, he has his shadow and his light. You've seen both. They are so split that it makes you feel split. Believe me, I think many here at SR know exactly what it is to feel one's mind is cracking! I think in psychology that is called "cognitive dissonance?" Well, whether or not that's the right term, I've definitely got a jar full of it!
Wishing you a good Spring weekend. Persephone--the young maiden in mythology who is pulled into Hell and who loses her innocence--well, she's allowed to return to the surface now. After a long and painful stay in the Underworld, with the dark ruler who ripped away her innocence, she finally is allowed to see flowers again. She will never ever be the same innocent young girl she once was. She knows too much now. Pain and betrayal have transformed her into a different woman.
But she does still love Spring.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 924
LONGEST POST EVER...4TH STEP
Painstaking is correct! I think it can be quite natural to avoid this necessary process because of the pain it can bring up; but I like to think of the process as “taking the pain away”…facing the darkness brings it into the light of understanding and acceptance. Taking ones inventory…brings awareness, in my recovery I have come to see some of my character defects as “distortions”. I believe that our defects can be transformed, that our qualities of being human run along a continuum. In a Buddhist sense it means that our “stubbornness” can be transformed into “perseverance”, the distortion of a natural and innate gift can be realigned along spiritual lines of well being.
Here is a condensed version of my 4th step which culminated in my 5th step meeting with my sponsor yesterday. This has been a very long process. Because I am in recovery for alcoholism I became aware of the parallel recovery that was available in Al anon early on in my relationship. However I have found that the recovery in codependency is even deeper and can be even more complex because of involvement with another person usually bringing up the issues. As much as “blame” was easy in alcoholism, blame for codependency is even more readily available in relationship with the addiction of a loved one!
I am just going to OWN the fact that I have enormous posts. But I will write this, and try to keep it condensed…as hopefully illustrative for those who struggle with ownership, shame, blame and insight into the steps…
We WILL know a new freedom and a new happiness.
Part of my 4th step…
My resentment? In short: That my ex kept relapsing and that I could not be with him because I could not accept his addiction.
My part? My part has to do A LOT with my fears:
That I thought my understanding and insight and success in recovery would help him. On one hand I can own the fact that I DO believe in the success of recovery, but on the other hand I will acknowledge that I thought I could almost be like a hero to him. My ego stepped in and felt like I could be a spiritual guru in recovery. I thought that I had had success, I do have a spiritual connection, but my ego wants to possess that connection as knowledge and insight and I want to TEACH.
His “failure” (my perspective) reflected on ME (my selfishness). I was terrified of being shamed and blamed in my community. I was being “exposed”…”what was wrong with ME that I was staying with someone who was using?” YES, I have been shamed in this way…which absolutely triggered more fears! I wanted to walk in recovery with this man, after his twenty years of struggle I wanted to be the one who “got the prize” of being with him. I would be the one who was able to be a rock, a model of recovery, I would share my insight and would help to heal him. This is total pride, this is playing god.
I wanted him, I wanted that love…and I didn’t want to give it up. I refused to believe that my love would not help him. I found research and the voices that I wanted to hear. I would not surrender. I will even say that in my current state of inventory and letting go and finding peace that I still have hope that my well being may somehow influence him. I just have to admit that, because I am not perfect…but I do believe that my direction and surrender is in deep process of recovering. I will continue to commit to this.
Why this major attachment issue with love? Because, put quite simply I was totally neglected in childhood. I am the 6th of seven children. The story of neglect is too much to write out…but the one place I found love was with the most dangerous man…my rage filled father. But it worked, I was the one person who he loved without rage. When it comes right down to it this is the pattern that I have reenacted over and over. My ex is that “dangerous man” because of his addiction. I “got my love” where no one else would go. And it “worked” until it didn’t anymore.
Sex? My childhood neglect sent me into years of promiscuity…seeking out love (the physiology of it feels like the emotional quality of it to a big enough degree) so with my ex I had found this source as well. Not getting to “keep him” because I couldn’t deal with his addiction was causing major disturbance in my ability to let go. There is major chemistry in the “cocktail” of attraction and FEAR of losing that chemistry. Sex itself no longer has the overly intense stronghold over me that it once had, but it still is a big part of this inventory. And it isn’t just related to intercourse…there was an almost constant level of physical affection with this man. Footrubs…hugging, spooning, back rubs, slow dancing in the kitchen on and on and on. Fear of loss in this area is always part of the inventory. My body is kind of in shock over the loss of affection. You get the idea.
Financial? Even though my ex blew a lot of his resources on crack I insisted upon not enabling him on that financial level. I saw to it that he contributed his share. In losing him I was going to have to go back to self sufficiency, once again entirely on my own. It was frustrating and it also kept me from letting go earlier. I can admit this. It may sound cold, but life really is a BOTH/AND thing. I loved him, but in a painstaking inventory who doesn’t want the ease of financial partnership? I let my desire to continue this ease contribute to my decision to over ride my own sense of doing the right thing earlier than I did.
I am going to finish abbreviating my 4th step here…I think it gives a window into some of the work I have been doing.
As I have said LIFE is BOTH/AND. I can own the fact that I love my ex for all of his beautiful and brilliant soul qualities that I recognized and wanted to live beside. I can also own my own patterns and faulty decisions and pride and selfishness that entered into a two plus year of addiction and codependency. It has been a long road of progress. Part of my recognition has been this. I KNEW when I met him that it is not advisable for someone in recovery to enter into relationship, and I absolutely contributed to the justifications which allowed us to enter into one anyway (“he wasn’t a newcomer after almost 20 years of being in the rooms”; “I could help him because I was in recovery”; “that one year rule gets broken all the time, why not us?”, “we could take it slow and easy and be in recovery together”, etc etc.) What I own now is that I put my expectations on him, I expected him to be able to sustain recovery and commitment to the relationship and when he “failed”, when he relapsed I RESENTED him for it. I blamed him and shamed him.
Now, in having laid out my inventory (abbreviated here) I can look at my patterns, my motives, my character defects/distortions and I can start to love and realign those parts of myself which need healing. I can also look to him with compassion and hope for his recovery. I try to be gentle and keep detaching with love from that part of me which grieves that part of me which loved him, and which wanted him as MINE. That is the child within me, that wants the attention…and I can continue to grow, to commit to find love in many healthy ways.
HE is not responsible to that wounded part of me, I am. He is responsible to himself and his spiritual connection.
In psychology there is the idea of the PARENT/CHILD/ADULT within. In my inventory what I have discovered is the terrible (traumatic) fear that my “child” has of being abandoned (his disappearances due to addiction) this is natural due to my upbringing. My “parent” was defaulting to using a shaming blaming punishing and persecuting voice…with me and with him. I believe that this voice was only trying to protect me and even try to protect him…but it wasn’t working. It was re-wounding with shame and cycling back into fear. I think the punishing critical voice was even trying to protect me from relapsing.
It is up to my “Adult” to finally stand up and integrate, to hold my inner child with love for self and connection to my higher power. It is up to my adult to have faith in the power of love, that there is no shortage of love in the world, and to admit that my love is not what my ex needs to heal (except for maybe that forgiving unconditional love found in letting go) and that my needs and expectations from him as he struggled with the horrors of his own addiction were selfish…and then I “punished” him for not being able to meet my selfish needs.
I feel free of that now. I feel capable of embracing and loving myself. I feel a deep sense of well being. I was afraid of facing what I felt were shameful and blaming aspects of myself in this whole period of life…and now in facing them with compassion, I feel able to surrender. I trust in the path ahead of me. I have begun to make amends. There is a new freedom.
I now make an amend for my hugely LONG posts. How can I make it better?
Painstaking is correct! I think it can be quite natural to avoid this necessary process because of the pain it can bring up; but I like to think of the process as “taking the pain away”…facing the darkness brings it into the light of understanding and acceptance. Taking ones inventory…brings awareness, in my recovery I have come to see some of my character defects as “distortions”. I believe that our defects can be transformed, that our qualities of being human run along a continuum. In a Buddhist sense it means that our “stubbornness” can be transformed into “perseverance”, the distortion of a natural and innate gift can be realigned along spiritual lines of well being.
Here is a condensed version of my 4th step which culminated in my 5th step meeting with my sponsor yesterday. This has been a very long process. Because I am in recovery for alcoholism I became aware of the parallel recovery that was available in Al anon early on in my relationship. However I have found that the recovery in codependency is even deeper and can be even more complex because of involvement with another person usually bringing up the issues. As much as “blame” was easy in alcoholism, blame for codependency is even more readily available in relationship with the addiction of a loved one!
I am just going to OWN the fact that I have enormous posts. But I will write this, and try to keep it condensed…as hopefully illustrative for those who struggle with ownership, shame, blame and insight into the steps…
We WILL know a new freedom and a new happiness.
Part of my 4th step…
My resentment? In short: That my ex kept relapsing and that I could not be with him because I could not accept his addiction.
My part? My part has to do A LOT with my fears:
That I thought my understanding and insight and success in recovery would help him. On one hand I can own the fact that I DO believe in the success of recovery, but on the other hand I will acknowledge that I thought I could almost be like a hero to him. My ego stepped in and felt like I could be a spiritual guru in recovery. I thought that I had had success, I do have a spiritual connection, but my ego wants to possess that connection as knowledge and insight and I want to TEACH.
His “failure” (my perspective) reflected on ME (my selfishness). I was terrified of being shamed and blamed in my community. I was being “exposed”…”what was wrong with ME that I was staying with someone who was using?” YES, I have been shamed in this way…which absolutely triggered more fears! I wanted to walk in recovery with this man, after his twenty years of struggle I wanted to be the one who “got the prize” of being with him. I would be the one who was able to be a rock, a model of recovery, I would share my insight and would help to heal him. This is total pride, this is playing god.
I wanted him, I wanted that love…and I didn’t want to give it up. I refused to believe that my love would not help him. I found research and the voices that I wanted to hear. I would not surrender. I will even say that in my current state of inventory and letting go and finding peace that I still have hope that my well being may somehow influence him. I just have to admit that, because I am not perfect…but I do believe that my direction and surrender is in deep process of recovering. I will continue to commit to this.
Why this major attachment issue with love? Because, put quite simply I was totally neglected in childhood. I am the 6th of seven children. The story of neglect is too much to write out…but the one place I found love was with the most dangerous man…my rage filled father. But it worked, I was the one person who he loved without rage. When it comes right down to it this is the pattern that I have reenacted over and over. My ex is that “dangerous man” because of his addiction. I “got my love” where no one else would go. And it “worked” until it didn’t anymore.
Sex? My childhood neglect sent me into years of promiscuity…seeking out love (the physiology of it feels like the emotional quality of it to a big enough degree) so with my ex I had found this source as well. Not getting to “keep him” because I couldn’t deal with his addiction was causing major disturbance in my ability to let go. There is major chemistry in the “cocktail” of attraction and FEAR of losing that chemistry. Sex itself no longer has the overly intense stronghold over me that it once had, but it still is a big part of this inventory. And it isn’t just related to intercourse…there was an almost constant level of physical affection with this man. Footrubs…hugging, spooning, back rubs, slow dancing in the kitchen on and on and on. Fear of loss in this area is always part of the inventory. My body is kind of in shock over the loss of affection. You get the idea.
Financial? Even though my ex blew a lot of his resources on crack I insisted upon not enabling him on that financial level. I saw to it that he contributed his share. In losing him I was going to have to go back to self sufficiency, once again entirely on my own. It was frustrating and it also kept me from letting go earlier. I can admit this. It may sound cold, but life really is a BOTH/AND thing. I loved him, but in a painstaking inventory who doesn’t want the ease of financial partnership? I let my desire to continue this ease contribute to my decision to over ride my own sense of doing the right thing earlier than I did.
I am going to finish abbreviating my 4th step here…I think it gives a window into some of the work I have been doing.
As I have said LIFE is BOTH/AND. I can own the fact that I love my ex for all of his beautiful and brilliant soul qualities that I recognized and wanted to live beside. I can also own my own patterns and faulty decisions and pride and selfishness that entered into a two plus year of addiction and codependency. It has been a long road of progress. Part of my recognition has been this. I KNEW when I met him that it is not advisable for someone in recovery to enter into relationship, and I absolutely contributed to the justifications which allowed us to enter into one anyway (“he wasn’t a newcomer after almost 20 years of being in the rooms”; “I could help him because I was in recovery”; “that one year rule gets broken all the time, why not us?”, “we could take it slow and easy and be in recovery together”, etc etc.) What I own now is that I put my expectations on him, I expected him to be able to sustain recovery and commitment to the relationship and when he “failed”, when he relapsed I RESENTED him for it. I blamed him and shamed him.
Now, in having laid out my inventory (abbreviated here) I can look at my patterns, my motives, my character defects/distortions and I can start to love and realign those parts of myself which need healing. I can also look to him with compassion and hope for his recovery. I try to be gentle and keep detaching with love from that part of me which grieves that part of me which loved him, and which wanted him as MINE. That is the child within me, that wants the attention…and I can continue to grow, to commit to find love in many healthy ways.
HE is not responsible to that wounded part of me, I am. He is responsible to himself and his spiritual connection.
In psychology there is the idea of the PARENT/CHILD/ADULT within. In my inventory what I have discovered is the terrible (traumatic) fear that my “child” has of being abandoned (his disappearances due to addiction) this is natural due to my upbringing. My “parent” was defaulting to using a shaming blaming punishing and persecuting voice…with me and with him. I believe that this voice was only trying to protect me and even try to protect him…but it wasn’t working. It was re-wounding with shame and cycling back into fear. I think the punishing critical voice was even trying to protect me from relapsing.
It is up to my “Adult” to finally stand up and integrate, to hold my inner child with love for self and connection to my higher power. It is up to my adult to have faith in the power of love, that there is no shortage of love in the world, and to admit that my love is not what my ex needs to heal (except for maybe that forgiving unconditional love found in letting go) and that my needs and expectations from him as he struggled with the horrors of his own addiction were selfish…and then I “punished” him for not being able to meet my selfish needs.
I feel free of that now. I feel capable of embracing and loving myself. I feel a deep sense of well being. I was afraid of facing what I felt were shameful and blaming aspects of myself in this whole period of life…and now in facing them with compassion, I feel able to surrender. I trust in the path ahead of me. I have begun to make amends. There is a new freedom.
I now make an amend for my hugely LONG posts. How can I make it better?
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