Need guidance -- AS is seeking recovery -- have my doubts
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Need guidance -- AS is seeking recovery -- have my doubts
Here's the situation from the last few weeks:
End of January: He's actively using heroin. Losing his apartment and asks for detox and then 1 month of support for sober living house. We support that.
He gets to SLE in another town after 5 day detox but leaves the SLE after 3 days to come back here to use. Goes back to SLE and they graciously allow him back in. He leaves again after 3 days and comes back here to be with his GF and to continue using. Says he can't get past the withdrawal and cravings.
We stop supporting in any way, except that his dad is filling his tank and giving him cans of beans every so often. He is homeless and living in the woods and mooching off GF, her family and his druggie friends. Has no money to support his habit, sick and tired, and wants to detox again. Finds illegal source of suboxone and is now doing a short "self-detox". Found a job and is trying to get cleaned up to start the job on Thursday.
He is willing to go to rehab -- has made several phone calls himself regarding assessment process but I haven't confirmed (yet) that I will assist with rehab. He IS covered by insurance and could probably find a good 30 day program easily without (much) out of pocket expense to us.
His past history is that he's been to rehab twice before. Once in 2009 (age 19) and was using again within a week of being home (after 90 days SLE). Other rehab was for heroin addiction in fall of 2011, was using again within the week of being back home. Then detox in January of 2012 (mentioned above) -- using again 2 days after discharge.
Obviously he is a chronic relapser.
HOmelessness is freaking him out and it APPEARS he is ready for recovery, but history makes me very skeptical.
I want to support any and all recovery efforts but not sure if I should. I am thinking I will offer support for a 30 day inpatient + 90 days SLE and then if he relapses again, he needs to LOSE MY NUMBER.
What do you think?
End of January: He's actively using heroin. Losing his apartment and asks for detox and then 1 month of support for sober living house. We support that.
He gets to SLE in another town after 5 day detox but leaves the SLE after 3 days to come back here to use. Goes back to SLE and they graciously allow him back in. He leaves again after 3 days and comes back here to be with his GF and to continue using. Says he can't get past the withdrawal and cravings.
We stop supporting in any way, except that his dad is filling his tank and giving him cans of beans every so often. He is homeless and living in the woods and mooching off GF, her family and his druggie friends. Has no money to support his habit, sick and tired, and wants to detox again. Finds illegal source of suboxone and is now doing a short "self-detox". Found a job and is trying to get cleaned up to start the job on Thursday.
He is willing to go to rehab -- has made several phone calls himself regarding assessment process but I haven't confirmed (yet) that I will assist with rehab. He IS covered by insurance and could probably find a good 30 day program easily without (much) out of pocket expense to us.
His past history is that he's been to rehab twice before. Once in 2009 (age 19) and was using again within a week of being home (after 90 days SLE). Other rehab was for heroin addiction in fall of 2011, was using again within the week of being back home. Then detox in January of 2012 (mentioned above) -- using again 2 days after discharge.
Obviously he is a chronic relapser.
HOmelessness is freaking him out and it APPEARS he is ready for recovery, but history makes me very skeptical.
I want to support any and all recovery efforts but not sure if I should. I am thinking I will offer support for a 30 day inpatient + 90 days SLE and then if he relapses again, he needs to LOSE MY NUMBER.
What do you think?
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Location: Atlanta
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(((tjp))) - Sweetie, you're the only one who can make the decision of whether to support him in one more rehab try.
I think if you do and he does a repeat of past behavior, yeah, "LOSE MY NUMBER".
Unfortunately, the homelessness freaked ME out, too....at first, then it just became a way of life. I pray this he's getting pretty darned tired of the consequences of his actions and is ready to give recovery a REAL try.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I think if you do and he does a repeat of past behavior, yeah, "LOSE MY NUMBER".
Unfortunately, the homelessness freaked ME out, too....at first, then it just became a way of life. I pray this he's getting pretty darned tired of the consequences of his actions and is ready to give recovery a REAL try.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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When it comes to helping anyone these days, my train of thought goes like this:
I wait for the question. When they do, are they willing but not able to do it for themselves? Am I willing and able to help, without causing myself any negative consequences, present and future? Is the help they want something I can give in good conscience? Is it the best option, are there others?
I'm wondering why your son, a chronic relapser, thinks this time will be any different from the others? Did he suddenly decide to hell with the job and girlfriend, ask you for inpatient rehab?
I wait for the question. When they do, are they willing but not able to do it for themselves? Am I willing and able to help, without causing myself any negative consequences, present and future? Is the help they want something I can give in good conscience? Is it the best option, are there others?
I'm wondering why your son, a chronic relapser, thinks this time will be any different from the others? Did he suddenly decide to hell with the job and girlfriend, ask you for inpatient rehab?
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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tjp, I feel your pain. I'm worrying (wasted energy) about my AS today, 26 year old opiate injector. My AS's stays in jail helped him more than any of his rehabs, even the ones he voluntarily went to. Like yours, mine went in for the 3 days, then checked out AMA, round and round he went, in and out. However, each time he went to any sort of rehab, each mandatory group or counseling session, I think he learned a little tidbit of positive information even if against his will 
That said, rehab isn't a magic cure as i know you know. But it can't hurt either, imo. Jail is better because he can't check himself out in 3 days when he wants to use, but I guess you can't check him into jail.
I found that for me, praying helped. That's what I'm going to do now, to let go of my worrying. I'll also say one for you and your son.
That said, rehab isn't a magic cure as i know you know. But it can't hurt either, imo. Jail is better because he can't check himself out in 3 days when he wants to use, but I guess you can't check him into jail. I found that for me, praying helped. That's what I'm going to do now, to let go of my worrying. I'll also say one for you and your son.
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Originally Posted by laurie6781 
If he asks for help .............................. give him the phone number to the Salvation Army.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 924
rehab can seem like such a relief!
to us
and to them.
the last rehab my ex checked into is a beautiful spiritual program. it doesn't take insurance because it is spiritual rather than clinical...WAY cool place! It is in an old lodge out in the woods of a wealthy western suburb, private rooms, gorgeous wood smoking decks, leather couches...just an amazing place and very healing for many. and not bad...only $3000 for the month!
relief? for my ex who was getting kicked out of my groovy house and was facing living in a shelter...the fact that his very wealthy sisters decided to once again kick in funds for "rehab" (they are long distance and I think it is a "relief" for them to be able to "do something" from a distance...and they don't even know how bad it is)it looked to me more like the ex was getting a month vacation at the lodge. what a relief for him. but who am I to say what will work for him to get it
he didn't have to face the heavy brunt of his consequences because for the 7th/8th/9th (???) time (who knows...) he was funded by family to be put up in a loving caring rehab experience complete with a renowned chef! (seriously!!!)
this is my E, S & H and I'm sorry to share it
maybe for that reason there is the saying "there but for the grace of god go I"
it seems to me like the crackheads that I have heard from in their stories of recovery seem to emphasize the horrors of bottom more than the beauty of rehab...who knows!
to us
and to them.
the last rehab my ex checked into is a beautiful spiritual program. it doesn't take insurance because it is spiritual rather than clinical...WAY cool place! It is in an old lodge out in the woods of a wealthy western suburb, private rooms, gorgeous wood smoking decks, leather couches...just an amazing place and very healing for many. and not bad...only $3000 for the month!
relief? for my ex who was getting kicked out of my groovy house and was facing living in a shelter...the fact that his very wealthy sisters decided to once again kick in funds for "rehab" (they are long distance and I think it is a "relief" for them to be able to "do something" from a distance...and they don't even know how bad it is)it looked to me more like the ex was getting a month vacation at the lodge. what a relief for him. but who am I to say what will work for him to get it
he didn't have to face the heavy brunt of his consequences because for the 7th/8th/9th (???) time (who knows...) he was funded by family to be put up in a loving caring rehab experience complete with a renowned chef! (seriously!!!)
this is my E, S & H and I'm sorry to share it
maybe for that reason there is the saying "there but for the grace of god go I"
it seems to me like the crackheads that I have heard from in their stories of recovery seem to emphasize the horrors of bottom more than the beauty of rehab...who knows!
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Yeah, his dad and I talked earler and decided to let him stew a little longer before making any offers of any kind. He's got all the pertinent phone numbers (and has called a few) and insurance cards in his pocket. Gonna sit back and see what he does.
It's a beautiful day here and I'm heading out to enjoy it! Think I'll "accidentally" leave my phone at home.
It's a beautiful day here and I'm heading out to enjoy it! Think I'll "accidentally" leave my phone at home.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I also suggest the Salvation Army Program. It is free, it is long term and it has a good reputation as being a very good program. The success of any rehab program is usually based on the willingness of the resident to work it.
I wouldn't throw any more money at this, if it was my son. If he wants recovery, he will find it because the resources are out there for him and are available to him regardless of his financial position.
Sadly, our children will use or not use regardless of what we do or don't do for them. Encouraging their efforts, providing a ride if needed to rehab, and keeping them in our prayers is about the only help I would offer today.
Sending hugs because I know this is hard, and we're walking with you no matter what you decide.
I wouldn't throw any more money at this, if it was my son. If he wants recovery, he will find it because the resources are out there for him and are available to him regardless of his financial position.
Sadly, our children will use or not use regardless of what we do or don't do for them. Encouraging their efforts, providing a ride if needed to rehab, and keeping them in our prayers is about the only help I would offer today.
Sending hugs because I know this is hard, and we're walking with you no matter what you decide.
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It's unfortunate that the Salvation Army has such a good program....but is faith-based. Any mention of the Bible or Jesus or God and he automatically shuts down. He'd rather stew in the hell of addiction than sit through any attempts at conversion. That's one reason he has such a hard time with the AA model -- just can't seem to wrap his head around the whole HP thing no matter how he packages it. Oh well. His choice. He's gotta do it HIS way. I believe it's slowly dawning on him that HIS way ain't workin' so hot.
I'm watching and waiting for total surrender. Haven't seen what I need to see yet.
I'm watching and waiting for total surrender. Haven't seen what I need to see yet.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 317
tjp,
“Finds illegal source of suboxone and is now doing a short "self-detox". Found a job and is trying to get cleaned up to start the job on Thursday."
There is no way he will be clean for a job this way. LOL my son used to pull that one. Well, he used to ask me for money for the illegal subox(doubt that was what he was buying with it) but it never turned out like he promised. I had false hope.
I think it is a good idea to give it time if you are not sure what to do. If you decide to give it one more try and it doesn’t work out; then, like you said, I would enforce the no contact rule. I have to wonder though, if he is serious. He doesn’t seem to have it that bad. He gets free food (beans) free gas (3.75 a gallon) has a car to live in, and has GF to mooch off.
He seems to have a pattern of throwing you enough of a biscuit to keep you hoping. I know how that is.
Then there is also the issue of him coming to your house after rehab (akkkkkk) and starting the whole circle all over again; although, I do understand the need to give it another try.
Whatever you decide, I hope the best for you and your family.
My son has gotten to a point where he exhausted my help and rehab is up to him. It would have been so much easier on him to have gone through rehab when he had a home, a car, and help with rehab expenses. He blew that chance, and is now homeless, jobless, penniless, carless, and addicted. He chose for it to be that way. He will have to get himself out.
It's a beautiful day here and I'm heading out to enjoy it! Think I'll "accidentally" leave my phone at home. " LOL good idea enjoy
“Finds illegal source of suboxone and is now doing a short "self-detox". Found a job and is trying to get cleaned up to start the job on Thursday."
There is no way he will be clean for a job this way. LOL my son used to pull that one. Well, he used to ask me for money for the illegal subox(doubt that was what he was buying with it) but it never turned out like he promised. I had false hope.
I think it is a good idea to give it time if you are not sure what to do. If you decide to give it one more try and it doesn’t work out; then, like you said, I would enforce the no contact rule. I have to wonder though, if he is serious. He doesn’t seem to have it that bad. He gets free food (beans) free gas (3.75 a gallon) has a car to live in, and has GF to mooch off.
He seems to have a pattern of throwing you enough of a biscuit to keep you hoping. I know how that is.
Then there is also the issue of him coming to your house after rehab (akkkkkk) and starting the whole circle all over again; although, I do understand the need to give it another try.
Whatever you decide, I hope the best for you and your family.
My son has gotten to a point where he exhausted my help and rehab is up to him. It would have been so much easier on him to have gone through rehab when he had a home, a car, and help with rehab expenses. He blew that chance, and is now homeless, jobless, penniless, carless, and addicted. He chose for it to be that way. He will have to get himself out.
It's a beautiful day here and I'm heading out to enjoy it! Think I'll "accidentally" leave my phone at home. " LOL good idea
enjoy
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
I think that it is a good idea that you are giving him time. It is also good that he is making the phone calls. Considering his multiple relapses and changing his mind, you might want to just sit back and wait to see what he does next.
My gut feeling is to not do anything for him. He can do Salvation Army or NA or whatever without money. How is he paying for this Suboxone on the streets or for the heroin? The faith-based thing sounds like an excuse. My heroin addict step-daughter always comes up with multiple excuses why various programs don't work for her. She even tried to tell us that NA doesn't have much of a presence where she lives, which I know is BS.
On the other hand, if my addicted step-daughter agrees to go to a rehab center near her (which may happen), it looks like the family will support her. She has also had multiple stints in rehab, and I have my doubts. However, it is hard for the family members to sit around worrying that she is going to OD if she stays on heroin.
My point is that I understand your dilemma, and I send you prayers and support. As I said before, my gut feeling is that when he is ready, he will do whatever it takes to get clean. Take care!
My gut feeling is to not do anything for him. He can do Salvation Army or NA or whatever without money. How is he paying for this Suboxone on the streets or for the heroin? The faith-based thing sounds like an excuse. My heroin addict step-daughter always comes up with multiple excuses why various programs don't work for her. She even tried to tell us that NA doesn't have much of a presence where she lives, which I know is BS.
On the other hand, if my addicted step-daughter agrees to go to a rehab center near her (which may happen), it looks like the family will support her. She has also had multiple stints in rehab, and I have my doubts. However, it is hard for the family members to sit around worrying that she is going to OD if she stays on heroin.
My point is that I understand your dilemma, and I send you prayers and support. As I said before, my gut feeling is that when he is ready, he will do whatever it takes to get clean. Take care!
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by tjp613
It's unfortunate that the Salvation Army has such a good program....but is faith-based. Any mention of the Bible or Jesus or God and he automatically shuts down. He'd rather stew in the hell of addiction than sit through any attempts at conversion. That's one reason he has such a hard time with the AA model -- just can't seem to wrap his head around the whole HP thing no matter how he packages it. Oh well. His choice. He's gotta do it HIS way. I believe it's slowly dawning on him that HIS way ain't workin' so hot.
I'm watching and waiting for total surrender. Haven't seen what I need to see yet.
I'm watching and waiting for total surrender. Haven't seen what I need to see yet.
They do exist & they can work as effectively as the other; although I don't know if they are free.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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"...when we are drowning we shouldn't be picky about what color the life preserver is........"
Probably not applicable to TJP's son; but when my BF went off the deep end with cocaine; it occurred after his 2 yr old died of cancer; so at that time right or wrong; God was not at the top of his list; and in his mind.... Well I won't go there; I'm sure you get where I'm going....
I wasn't part of the mix at the time, but one of several factors used to pick the rehab was because of how they handled the role of God during treatment. *
Probably not applicable to TJP's son; but when my BF went off the deep end with cocaine; it occurred after his 2 yr old died of cancer; so at that time right or wrong; God was not at the top of his list; and in his mind.... Well I won't go there; I'm sure you get where I'm going....
I wasn't part of the mix at the time, but one of several factors used to pick the rehab was because of how they handled the role of God during treatment. *
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Originally Posted by December2011
tjp,
“Finds illegal source of suboxone and is now doing a short "self-detox". Found a job and is trying to get cleaned up to start the job on Thursday."
Oh, I know that it won't work! He's also said he's gonna hit NA real hard and get a sponsor right away. Uh, that still hasn't happened that I know of.
There is no way he will be clean for a job this way. LOL my son used to pull that one. Well, he used to ask me for money for the illegal subox(doubt that was what he was buying with it) but it never turned out like he promised. I had false hope.
I think it is a good idea to give it time if you are not sure what to do. If you decide to give it one more try and it doesn’t work out; then, like you said, I would enforce the no contact rule. I have to wonder though, if he is serious. He doesn’t seem to have it that bad. He gets free food (beans) free gas (3.75 a gallon) has a car to live in, and has GF to mooch off.
He seems to have a pattern of throwing you enough of a biscuit to keep you hoping. I know how that is.
Definitely his pattern that has definitely worked in the past -- especially with his father (my ex). His dad has finally had enough and is on board with letting him fall (except for the beans and gas). His poor little girlfriend...she's so young and has no freaking idea what she's gotten herself into. They've only been together since Jan 1st but she's got it bad for him. Lord knows why. I've only met her one time.
Then there is also the issue of him coming to your house after rehab (akkkkkk) and starting the whole circle all over again; although, I do understand the need to give it another try.
Oh, hell no! He wouldn't be coming back to my house after rehab! I was thinking of offering 2-3 months rent at an SLE after rehab but that's it.
Whatever you decide, I hope the best for you and your family.
Thank you.
My son has gotten to a point where he exhausted my help and rehab is up to him. It would have been so much easier on him to have gone through rehab when he had a home, a car, and help with rehab expenses. He blew that chance, and is now homeless, jobless, penniless, carless, and addicted. He chose for it to be that way. He will have to get himself out.
It's a beautiful day here and I'm heading out to enjoy it! Think I'll "accidentally" leave my phone at home. " LOL good idea enjoy
I did!!
“Finds illegal source of suboxone and is now doing a short "self-detox". Found a job and is trying to get cleaned up to start the job on Thursday."
Oh, I know that it won't work! He's also said he's gonna hit NA real hard and get a sponsor right away. Uh, that still hasn't happened that I know of.
There is no way he will be clean for a job this way. LOL my son used to pull that one. Well, he used to ask me for money for the illegal subox(doubt that was what he was buying with it) but it never turned out like he promised. I had false hope.
I think it is a good idea to give it time if you are not sure what to do. If you decide to give it one more try and it doesn’t work out; then, like you said, I would enforce the no contact rule. I have to wonder though, if he is serious. He doesn’t seem to have it that bad. He gets free food (beans) free gas (3.75 a gallon) has a car to live in, and has GF to mooch off.
He seems to have a pattern of throwing you enough of a biscuit to keep you hoping. I know how that is.
Definitely his pattern that has definitely worked in the past -- especially with his father (my ex). His dad has finally had enough and is on board with letting him fall (except for the beans and gas). His poor little girlfriend...she's so young and has no freaking idea what she's gotten herself into. They've only been together since Jan 1st but she's got it bad for him. Lord knows why. I've only met her one time.
Then there is also the issue of him coming to your house after rehab (akkkkkk) and starting the whole circle all over again; although, I do understand the need to give it another try.
Oh, hell no! He wouldn't be coming back to my house after rehab! I was thinking of offering 2-3 months rent at an SLE after rehab but that's it.
Whatever you decide, I hope the best for you and your family.
Thank you.
My son has gotten to a point where he exhausted my help and rehab is up to him. It would have been so much easier on him to have gone through rehab when he had a home, a car, and help with rehab expenses. He blew that chance, and is now homeless, jobless, penniless, carless, and addicted. He chose for it to be that way. He will have to get himself out.
It's a beautiful day here and I'm heading out to enjoy it! Think I'll "accidentally" leave my phone at home. " LOL good idea
enjoyI did!!
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
what if....you do nothing? what has now happened is a pattern of behavior has developed...a pattern of "noise" about wanting to quit, everybody scrambling to get him to detox or SLE or whatever, and then he goes right back to using. with the best of intentions, you have become a part of that pattern of chronic relapsing...
YEP! You are right!
the best recoveries i've seen have been self-determined, and self-driven. yes YOU want him to quit and stay quit, but it isn't your recovery to own. i do not mean that to sound harsh....but HE has to want this and want this BAD. and be willing to go to ANY LENGTHS....do WHATEVER it takes....there are three KEY elements to successful recovery for anyone:
Honesty It's so HARD to tell when he's lying! But then again, he's chronic so all I really need to see are his lips moving.
Open Mindedness Uh, NO. Not where 'standard solutions' are concerned. He balks and balks and balks.
Willingness Well, he's willing to have a warm bed, 3 hot meals, and the resort setting provided by rehab! I know that!
with a huge does of HUMILITY added in. to throw yourself prostrate at the feet of the Solution and say if you tell me to paint myself green, stand on my head in the corner, naked and sing the Star Spangled Banner and that will help me stay clean? i'll do it. because i don't know jack about how to stay clean. all i know is how to get loaded. there MUST be an element of desperation....when we are drowning we shouldn't be picky about what color the life preserver is........You're right. He's not showing that particular brand of desperation quite yet. Maybe he never will.
i know this is hard. and my heart hurts for you.
YEP! You are right!
the best recoveries i've seen have been self-determined, and self-driven. yes YOU want him to quit and stay quit, but it isn't your recovery to own. i do not mean that to sound harsh....but HE has to want this and want this BAD. and be willing to go to ANY LENGTHS....do WHATEVER it takes....there are three KEY elements to successful recovery for anyone:
Honesty It's so HARD to tell when he's lying! But then again, he's chronic so all I really need to see are his lips moving.
Open Mindedness Uh, NO. Not where 'standard solutions' are concerned. He balks and balks and balks.
Willingness Well, he's willing to have a warm bed, 3 hot meals, and the resort setting provided by rehab! I know that!
with a huge does of HUMILITY added in. to throw yourself prostrate at the feet of the Solution and say if you tell me to paint myself green, stand on my head in the corner, naked and sing the Star Spangled Banner and that will help me stay clean? i'll do it. because i don't know jack about how to stay clean. all i know is how to get loaded. there MUST be an element of desperation....when we are drowning we shouldn't be picky about what color the life preserver is........You're right. He's not showing that particular brand of desperation quite yet. Maybe he never will.
i know this is hard. and my heart hurts for you.
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