Blogs


Notices

Detaching with anger or love

Old 02-10-2012, 08:07 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Detaching with anger or love

Is it possible to move from detachment with anger to detachment with love?

I have seen my situation explained over and over again on these boards. Partner prescribed narcotics for back pain, eventually takes a months worth in two/three weeks, doctors realize there is a problem and stop dispensing, partner starts obtaining illegally. To compound the situation I am an ACOA and my partner has a dual diagnosis (PTSD).

I have been working hard in therapy to identify my codependent behaviors and learning that I need to start taking care of myself. I am still very angry about the lies, betrayals, financial wreckage, etc. Do I just have to move through the stages of grief before I can detach from a place of love? I am wondering if that comes with time or my inability to be able to do it now is a sign that I will never be able to.
Portofcall741 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Portofcall741 For This Useful Post:
Anaya (01-19-2021), Ilovemysonjj (02-10-2012), trailmix (01-15-2021)
Old 02-10-2012, 08:18 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
whyme123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 59
IMO, it comes from a combination of strength within, at your own time, when you just can't take it anymore. As codependents we even want to control, or at least I did, how long it will take to be able to forgive - detach - or be done. It's just not so, its a process. You can't run from your own head and you can't forgive until you are ready to, if you want to.

Kudos on going to therapy and working on you!!
whyme123 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to whyme123 For This Useful Post:
Anaya (01-19-2021), Ilovemysonjj (02-10-2012), Kindeyes (02-10-2012), laurie6781 (02-14-2012), Portofcall741 (02-10-2012)
Old 02-10-2012, 08:24 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,697
First detachment happens (mine came with extreme anger at being stolen from for thousands of dollars of jewelry by my own son), then when you are able to see clearly that the addiction is the driver of the behavior, you can then begin to view the individual. My detachment with love comes from the fact that I love the person, but I hate the addiction. Right now, he is working on sobriety. I am staying OUT of the way during this time in rehab and he has a restitution order that needs to be honored. Once his ACTIONS show me that he is committed to rebuilding, then I can begin to let him back in. I still love him though and always will.
Ilovemysonjj is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Ilovemysonjj For This Useful Post:
Anaya (01-19-2021), Heartbroken0608 (02-11-2012), Krystal32 (02-14-2012), laurie6781 (02-14-2012), missgardenarm (02-10-2012), SoberInCLE (01-15-2021), whyme123 (02-10-2012)
Old 02-10-2012, 09:46 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Engineer, Guitarist, Golfer
 
zoso77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,381
Blog Entries: 5
Originally Posted by Portofcall741 View Post
Is it possible to move from detachment with anger to detachment with love?

I have seen my situation explained over and over again on these boards. Partner prescribed narcotics for back pain, eventually takes a months worth in two/three weeks, doctors realize there is a problem and stop dispensing, partner starts obtaining illegally. To compound the situation I am an ACOA and my partner has a dual diagnosis (PTSD).

I have been working hard in therapy to identify my codependent behaviors and learning that I need to start taking care of myself. I am still very angry about the lies, betrayals, financial wreckage, etc. Do I just have to move through the stages of grief before I can detach from a place of love? I am wondering if that comes with time or my inability to be able to do it now is a sign that I will never be able to.
Well...maybe a better way to look at it, IMHO, is to try to feel compassion in your heart first.

If you've got good reason to be angry, then it's OK to be angry. What's not OK is acting out when you're angry, or feeding the anger. To not do those things takes a lot of work. That takes practice. It also takes a good dose of self awareness when you feel you're feeding the anger.

A buddy of mine in Al Anon once said you can't fight anger with anger, you can't fight hate with hate...you can only fight those with love.

For now, though, pray for him. That's a good way to show compassion. That doesn't mean he's done is OK. It doesn't mean you've forgiven him. What it does mean is by showing him compassion, you begin to heal yourself.

I hope you're doing OK and you can manage what you're feeling as best you can.

ZoSo
zoso77 is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to zoso77 For This Useful Post:
Ilovemysonjj (02-10-2012), missgardenarm (02-10-2012), Portofcall741 (02-10-2012), SoberInCLE (01-15-2021), whyme123 (02-10-2012)
Old 02-10-2012, 10:34 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
outtolunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]

I fully accepted that after the first time, he did nothing to me that I didn't allow.
Back when, my daughter continuously stole anything not nailed down from me.
Like you, after the first time, she did nothing to me that I did not allow. At the time, I rationalized my allowances because " I did not want to ruin her life".

Reality was she was ruining her own life and I was hung up on preventing her from experiencing legal consequences for her lousy choices. It sustained my own hopeful fantasy that I could control and influence her to make better choices.

I was insane.
outtolunch is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to outtolunch For This Useful Post:
anvilhead (02-10-2012), Chino (02-10-2012), Ilovemysonjj (02-10-2012), optimism (02-10-2012), Portofcall741 (02-10-2012), Vale (02-10-2012), washbe2 (02-11-2012), whyme123 (02-10-2012)
Old 02-10-2012, 06:21 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Kindeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Blog Entries: 3
I agree that acceptance is the key. Acceptance that I can't control another person. Acceptance that I don't always get answers to the question "why". Acceptance that I only have control over some things and the biggie is me.

For me, detachment came in tandem with acceptance. Once I accepted my own lack of control and my own role in the dance, I was able to detach. How do you know when you've detached? When they can't push your buttons or you recognize when they're trying. It doesn't hurt not to talk to them or see them as much. And you can live your life with relative serenity.

Hate does no one any good and it eats you up from the inside out. If you can't detach with love. Detach with neutrality--neither hate nor love.

gentle hugs
ke
Kindeyes is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 08:34 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
HopefulGF65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southeastern MA
Posts: 149
I've read alot of different answers here which means each situation differs to some degree and each individual who detaches is different so I think you'll simply have to feel what you feel until it becomes something else, if it does. But if you can't detach with love at the moment, give yourself permission for it to be ok.

right now, I'm in the very beginning stages of detaching with love...we live together and presently, my bf is on the right track so I see no reason to ask him to leave as long as he's active in fighting his addiction to pain meds. I did, however, notice something that maybe some others here have experienced and that is, once you start detaching, or even before, resentment can sneak its way in, and all of a sudden, you've detached with spite which, at least IMHO, can never be productive. I was experiencing one of my more "I'm angry at you more than I love you" moods and did something, or rather chose not to do something, out of spite. He wasn't aware but the result could have been disasterous to his job and that's not fair nor is it in my nature to do anything hurtful purposefully. Thankfully, the outcome was ok but I learned a valuable lesson for myself and that's holding onto the resentment will destroy me. And why would I want to do that? I've been through enough without sabotaging my own self.

So be angry, but don't let it consume you. Allow yourself to process it and in time, I think you will find yourself shifting to a much freer place.
HopefulGF65 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to HopefulGF65 For This Useful Post:
Krystal32 (02-14-2012)
Old 02-10-2012, 09:45 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Thank you all so much for the feedback.

I think right now I have detached in desperation. I am completely fed up with her choices and determined to get myself out of my self imposed hell I choose when I let myself get sucked into the chaos and drama.

I have had almost limitless compassion and patience over the past few years for everyone but me. I usually push through issues at warp speed and I think I just need to learn to be patient with myself. I keep having to remind myself that my emotions right now are justified and a normal response to the situation. I can't rush working through them or allow myself to be pressured into decisions I am not ready to make.

That said, this situation has set off many childhood triggers and is really messing with my head.
Portofcall741 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Portofcall741 For This Useful Post:
Ilovemysonjj (02-11-2012), optimism (02-13-2012)
Old 02-13-2012, 06:47 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Just a quick follow up question. Is it common for the addict to return from detox having it all figured out? The current point of contention is that she doesn't think I am open enough to seeing all the positive changes. My problem is, heard it all before, have seen it all before, and it has never been sustainable. So now I am the negative one again. Is this common behavior? It just doesn't make sense to me for the expectation to be Si forgive, forget and hop back in with both feet.
Portofcall741 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Portofcall741 For This Useful Post:
MsPINKAcres (02-15-2012)
Old 02-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Engineer, Guitarist, Golfer
 
zoso77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,381
Blog Entries: 5
Originally Posted by Portofcall741 View Post
Just a quick follow up question. Is it common for the addict to return from detox having it all figured out? The current point of contention is that she doesn't think I am open enough to seeing all the positive changes. My problem is, heard it all before, have seen it all before, and it has never been sustainable. So now I am the negative one again. Is this common behavior? It just doesn't make sense to me for the expectation to be Si forgive, forget and hop back in with both feet.
Figured what out exactly?

My intention is not to sound negative when I say this, but rather to put you on alert.

If an addict's lips are moving, they're lying.

Are you in Al Anon or Nar Anon? If you're not, I suggest you get in, allow her to focus on her recovery, and you focus on yours. Please. For your sake.

ZoSo
zoso77 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to zoso77 For This Useful Post:
anvilhead (02-14-2012), bluebelle (02-14-2012), MsPINKAcres (02-15-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
Zoso - I don't see your comments as negative at all.

What she has figured out is everything- why she was using, how it happened, and how (armed with this knowledge) she will never touch it again. "It's that simple" she says.

Now that she is so clear about things she feels like I am not being positive enough. She doesn't think I can see all the good things that she thinks are happening. She sees my commitment to taking care of me keeps me moving on a path away from her. My answer to that is maybe that is exactly what will happen, but I am open to seeing what is in front of me as it is, without the coda filter.

I am in therapy individually, we are in therapy together, and I am going to start attending meetings (al-anon, coda, and acoa to find the right fit).
Portofcall741 is offline  
Old 02-14-2012, 01:21 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
 
laurie6781's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Rehab or no rehab, her actions in the YEARS to come will show what tools she is and is not using.

It took almost 3 years before my parents and family actually started to trust me again, based on my actions for those 3 years. My willingness to commit to 'things' and then keep my word and show up on time. My changes in my attitudes.

Ignore her words and watch her ACTIONS and REACTIONS to things going on in her life. You continue to work on you as you have been. Hopefully one of the organizations will fit your needs so that you can also have some face to face contacts for you.

Also, something else to keep in mind, when the A starts using, at whatever age, that is where they stay emotionally and mentally. Slowly in recovery they start to 'mature' and start acting and living and responding like adults, not teenagers. Right now she sounds like a teenager and I suspect that is when she started using her DOC.

Remember we are walking with you in spirit.

Love and hugs,
laurie6781 is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to laurie6781 For This Useful Post:
bluebelle (02-14-2012), CocoBear230 (01-16-2021), Krystal32 (02-14-2012), MsPINKAcres (02-15-2012), Portofcall741 (02-14-2012), Zoenob (02-15-2012), zoso77 (02-14-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Engineer, Guitarist, Golfer
 
zoso77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,381
Blog Entries: 5
What she has figured out is everything- why she was using, how it happened, and how (armed with this knowledge) she will never touch it again. "It's that simple" she says.

Now that she is so clear about things she feels like I am not being positive enough. She doesn't think I can see all the good things that she thinks are happening. She sees my commitment to taking care of me keeps me moving on a path away from her. My answer to that is maybe that is exactly what will happen, but I am open to seeing what is in front of me as it is, without the coda filter.

I am in therapy individually, we are in therapy together, and I am going to start attending meetings (al-anon, coda, and acoa to find the right fit).
I'm happy to hear you plan on going to meetings.

Laurie's comments above really drive home what it is you're dealing with. Obviously, she's looking at it from the addiction side of the fence, but it's about as raw and honest as you'll read.

My side of the fence is where you're standing right now. From my own experience, when an addict says she's figured it out, it's one of those things you can't assign any weight to because it's simply not true. I'm not saying she's lying per se, but she hasn't really done the work to make such a statement viable.

I would not only go to Al Anon/Nar Anon, I would go to NA meetings as well to educate yourself about the disease. Don't go to any of her meetings; find you're own. If you're intention is to stay with her, expect it to be a bumpy ride. As Laurie noted, you have to watch her behavior and actions. Not her words.

Please work on you and detach as best you can from her. It's not going to be easy. But I'll be pulling for you both.

Best,
ZoSo
zoso77 is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to zoso77 For This Useful Post:
bluebelle (02-14-2012), MsPINKAcres (02-15-2012), Portofcall741 (02-14-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 03:55 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 445
Blog Entries: 11
"if an addicts lips are moving , they are lying" - ok I see where this applies to an active addict who just wants to continue using....

but if you have a person in active recovery (whatever their method).... I dont think this statement is one of full blown truth any longer.

I realize of course you must use extreme caution in listening to what the recovering addict says... and they must back up their words with actions.

But what I wonder is.... in some cases how twisted the minds become of the codependant that they can no longer 'see' when the addict is really trying.
They no longer acknowledge improvement or change or growth... because they have built a wall and they are too scared to risk their own feelings again.

As in Lauries case; Im sure she made mistakes in the two years it has taken for her loved ones to begin to trust her; and I know she holds no grudge against them for keeping their distance and doubting her. But at what point did the majority of their mistrust really become unecessary as a protection method for themselves ....and they just didnt see it ?
KelleyF is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KelleyF For This Useful Post:
Krystal32 (02-14-2012), Portofcall741 (02-14-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 04:04 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Engineer, Guitarist, Golfer
 
zoso77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,381
Blog Entries: 5
Originally Posted by KelleyF View Post
"if an addicts lips are moving , they are lying" - ok I see where this applies to an active addict who just wants to continue using....

but if you have a person in active recovery (whatever their method).... I dont think this statement is one of full blown truth any longer.

I realize of course you must use extreme caution in listening to what the recovering addict says... and they must back up their words with actions.

But what I wonder is.... in some cases how twisted the minds become of the codependant that they can no longer 'see' when the addict is really trying.
They no longer acknowledge improvement or change or growth... because they have built a wall and they are too scared to risk their own feelings again.

As in Lauries case; Im sure she made mistakes in the two years it has taken for her loved ones to begin to trust her; and I know she holds no grudge against them for keeping their distance and doubting her. But at what point did the majority of their mistrust really become unecessary as a protection method for themselves ....and they just didnt see it ?
That is a really good question. Maybe that's a function of whether the codie is in recovery, too?
zoso77 is offline  
Old 02-14-2012, 04:16 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6
"But what I wonder is.... in some cases how twisted the minds become of the codependant that they can no longer 'see' when the addict is really trying.
They no longer acknowledge improvement or change or growth... because they have built a wall and they are too scared to risk their own feelings again. "

Good point. I would have to imagine that this could happen, especially when the codependant has little awareness of their own issues.

It has been less than 2 weeks since she was discharged from detox. I have good reason to be too scared to risk any further investment. I have witnessed her pull herself together for a few weeks before. Everything she is telling me about her latest insight into her issues has been said before. I have witnessed many epiphanies, followed by incomplete admissions, that have not resulted in any sustainable change. I am listening to my gut instincts now. They are telling me that it is a bit early to declare the war has been won.
Portofcall741 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Portofcall741 For This Useful Post:
laurie6781 (02-14-2012)
Old 02-14-2012, 04:59 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 445
Blog Entries: 11
Originally Posted by Portofcall741 View Post
"But what I wonder is.... in some cases how twisted the minds become of the codependant that they can no longer 'see' when the addict is really trying.
They no longer acknowledge improvement or change or growth... because they have built a wall and they are too scared to risk their own feelings again. "

Good point. I would have to imagine that this could happen, especially when the codependant has little awareness of their own issues.

It has been less than 2 weeks since she was discharged from detox. I have good reason to be too scared to risk any further investment. I have witnessed her pull herself together for a few weeks before. Everything she is telling me about her latest insight into her issues has been said before. I have witnessed many epiphanies, followed by incomplete admissions, that have not resulted in any sustainable change. I am listening to my gut instincts now. They are
telling me that it is a bit early to declare the war has been won.

Portofcall; definitely didn't mean this in regards to your situation.... After just few weeks out of rehab.... It was more just a general thought in regards to that " lips moving " comment I hear so often... For those that succeed in recovery at some point "their lips spoke truth" but I'm guessing for most it
Wasn't realized for a long time. Just throwing it out there....
KelleyF is offline  
Old 02-14-2012, 05:34 PM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 156
Blog Entries: 1
Portofcall741, all the comments you have gotten here have all been very good and they all make very good points and it gives you so many things to consider and apply to your situation from all angles. I am so sorry that you are having to go through this and you have every right to have that wall up right now cause you have been down this road several times before. I do hope that you are able to find some peace for yourself and I believe once you have reached that point things will start to fall into place for you.
Krystal32 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Krystal32 For This Useful Post:
Portofcall741 (02-14-2012)
Old 01-15-2021, 03:51 PM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 320
Great advice in general.
SoberInCLE is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:26 PM.