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Old 01-10-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lesliej View Post
there's kind of a joke (funny/tragic because it's true) that while I am sitting in a recovery meeting "my addict/alcoholic" part of me is in the parking lot doing push ups.
Good gosh, so how does someone stay sober for 20 years!?!?
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by missbea View Post
I feel I need to provide more info so that I can get the right advice before moving forward. I know he doesn't use crack, I know he did not use any drugs when he was away for those 3 days because he was tested when he came back. I'm not defending him or being delusional. I know this because he was tested at the facility where he was admitted and I have access to that information.

Also, regarding STDs, I cannot say for a fact that he's not been with other women, I'm not naive, but there's never been any evidence of that. I have access to his e-mail, cell phone, bank records, everything. So I think I will know if he's cheated on me. His vice is drugs. Not women. He's never been abusive towards me, I've never been afraid of him or anything, everything has always been great, etc, etc. That's not the issue

He is addicted to cocaine and has been a functioning addict since I met him (I just didn't know it). When I found out the first time, he tried to stay off (cold turkey - without help) for 2 months and felt extremely depressed. This is when he relapsed (about 3 months ago) and has been doing it every other weekend or so until the last episode. This time he is getting professional help, outpatient treatment and seeing a doctor about his depression and a therapist about his issues. Mind you, this is only a couple of weeks in the making. I don't know if I should give up and move on or if I should stay and watch his progress, because this means I will have to watch out for any signs of relapse and I could not trust him. It will be hard being in a relationship with someone I don't trust. Or have to drug test. Not sure I can live like that even if he never relapses.

Thank you all for your comments. Please keep them coming.

Just keep in mind that the first rule of addicts is that you don't ever know the truth; you only know what they tell you is the truth, and they can look you straight into the eyes and be very convincing.

Any reality you build off what they tell you is suspect.

A skilled addict also has skills at beating drug tests; this doesn't mean they are clean.

At this point, any "truth" is suspect. Only time will tell.

From an outsider's perspective, your reality with him has been built much more on lies, than on truth. Keep this in mind, and adjust accordingly. To cling to what you thought was truth will imprison you.

The hardest part about trying to have a relationship with an addict is constantly questioning reality...

CLMI
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by WMaxwell View Post
If an addict is incapable of love and is only capable of using and manipulating people to fuel the addiction, then that means that he TRICKED you or MANIPULATED you into falling in love with him so he could use you!
HE didn't trick you into anything. He was what he was. It was YOU who saw someone you loved. What you saw filled your needs. You can say he 'tricked' you because he hid his addiction; and that's no doubt true. But now you know he's not what you thought, now that you know what you fell in love with is a fantasy why are you still engaging with him? If the answer is, you are now 'trapped' by your love, it's YOU tricking you.

Originally Posted by WMaxwell View Post
Why am I allowing myself to be used and manipulated by someone who doesn't love me?
Why would you allow anyone use and manipulate you whether they love you or not? Is it really all right if he loves you?

My AS loves me and I love him. And it makes not one bit of difference. Love doesn't cure rabies.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by WMaxwell View Post
Good gosh, so how does someone stay sober for 20 years!?!?
For me, it has been taking an proactive role in my recovery....attending meetings, working the steps, sponsoring others and having a sponsor myself.

It has been about changing my thinking because that was where the real problem was. The alcohol/drugs were only a symptom of my disease.

It has been about becoming a responsible productive member of society, learning to think of others instead of being caught in that damnable self-centeredness that alcoholism/addiction brings. It is not thinking less of myself, but thinking of myself less.

My disease is threefold-mental, physical, and spiritual.

I have to address all three areas, and still do to this day. My sobriety/clean date is August 5, 1990.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lesliej View Post
part of the cycle of crack use is a horrible, overwhelming sense of despair, remorse and self loathing. it's a testament to it's insanely addictive qualities that something so deeply depressing could keep calling you back to use it more
In my personal experience, that was also a part of the cycle of meth use, which was my DOC at the end of my addictions/alcoholism.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by missbea View Post
I know he doesn't use crack, I know he did not use any drugs when he was away for those 3 days because he was tested when he came back. I'm not defending him or being delusional. I know this because he was tested at the facility where he was admitted and I have access to that information.
How do you have access to his medical information? Be careful you aren't crossing the line. Are you perhaps over-involved?

Also understand there are other ways to get high that don't show up on tests. It's absolutely futile to try to figure out if they are using, what they are using, and how much. They are so breathtakingly clever about hiding it. You will always be one step behind, a day late, a dollar short.

Also do you want your emotional well being to rest on something outside yourself, especially something so unsteady as someone else's drug tests/usage?
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:44 PM
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who explained the test results to you?

and if he wasn't out on a drug binge where in the world was he for 3 or 4 days?
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:03 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Addicts know every trick in the book to pass a drug pee test. Unless it was a hair folicle test I would not believe any results. One doesn't just disappear for 3 days for no reason, addicts do.

If you decide to go forward with the marriage, strap on your seat belt, you are in for one heck of a rollercoaster ride.

Read all the stickeys at the top of this forum, lots a great information at your findertips. I would also suggest that you read Codependent No More, it is a good starting point for we enablers of addicts.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:48 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Why is everyone hung up on the crack thing? I believe we have a lot, A LOT of issues and I will like to deal with those, not the imaginary ones. Please, any advice on my ACTUAL situation will be of great help.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:53 PM
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missbea, there is no solution for his problem that can come from you. There are, however, ways for you to avoid the heartache that will soon follow. It is your choice to have a short-term heartache of saving yourself now or commit yourself to even worse heartache for years, if not the rest of your life.

Just be thankful that you found out before you got married. Or worse, got married and had children with an addict, like a lot of us did.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:56 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by missbea View Post
Why is everyone hung up on the crack thing? I believe we have a lot, A LOT of issues and I will like to deal with those, not the imaginary ones. Please, any advice on my ACTUAL situation will be of great help.
Yes there are a lot of issues, none of which will be successfully resolved until his addiction is addressed first and foremost.

Crack IS a form of cocaine.

I believe the responses given to you in regard to crack have been from people who are experienced with crack addiction/behaviors in their lives.

Smoking crack, snorting powder cocaine, shooting it up...it's all addictive, and it all produces many of the behaviors you have talked about.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:02 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by missbea View Post
Why is everyone hung up on the crack thing? I believe we have a lot, A LOT of issues and I will like to deal with those, not the imaginary ones. Please, any advice on my ACTUAL situation will be of great help.
What are the imaginary issues you believe we are addressing?

As for the ACTUAL situation, what do you think is not being addressed?
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:08 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by missbea View Post
I feel I need to provide more info so that I can get the right advice before moving forward. I know he doesn't use crack, I know he did not use any drugs when he was away for those 3 days because he was tested when he came back. I'm not defending him or being delusional. I know this because he was tested at the facility where he was admitted and I have access to that information.

Also, regarding STDs, I cannot say for a fact that he's not been with other women, I'm not naive, but there's never been any evidence of that. I have access to his e-mail, cell phone, bank records, everything. So I think I will know if he's cheated on me. His vice is drugs. Not women. He's never been abusive towards me, I've never been afraid of him or anything, everything has always been great, etc, etc. That's not the issue

He is addicted to cocaine and has been a functioning addict since I met him (I just didn't know it). When I found out the first time, he tried to stay off (cold turkey - without help) for 2 months and felt extremely depressed. This is when he relapsed (about 3 months ago) and has been doing it every other weekend or so until the last episode. This time he is getting professional help, outpatient treatment and seeing a doctor about his depression and a therapist about his issues. Mind you, this is only a couple of weeks in the making. I don't know if I should give up and move on or if I should stay and watch his progress, because this means I will have to watch out for any signs of relapse and I could not trust him. It will be hard being in a relationship with someone I don't trust. Or have to drug test. Not sure I can live like that even if he never relapses.

Thank you all for your comments. Please keep them coming.
Missbea -- Hi there and welcome to SR. Your post above is something I could have predicted. It's very common for fiance's in your position to all do the same thing. First post is full of angst and fear, wondering what to do. The SR members with years of experience in this arena commonly respond the same way: "RUN!!!" This is one of the hottest topics here at SR....when we see a young lady (or gent) that is about to tie the knot with a serious drug user/addict you will see members coming out of the woodwork trying to convince her that she is in for a life of utter HELL. And then the OP's response to those first few posts are very common as well... "Well, let me clarify!...He's not that bad!"

The thing is that yes, he IS "that bad"! Probably 80% of our addicted loved ones are "functional" in the beginning stages of their addiction. The thing is that 80% of the time it continues on and on and on for years and years. That is the experience of just about every family member here. Yes, it is possible that your fiance will get sober. I believe the statistics show there is about a 15%-20% chance of long term sobriety. In the meantime, there will be relapses. It is possible your finances could be ruined, or your children hurt, or an STD is passed to you, etc. It is almost assured that you will lose your peace of mind and may never get it back.

Just keep reading, keep an open mind, but PLEASE postpone the wedding. Stay with him and support him if you want, but just don't get married.

Good luck to you. ((((Hugs))))
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:14 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Ditto the last 3 words of tjp.

But MissBea, after i posted earlier today, I knew in my heart you can't make a logical choice right now. YOU LOVE HIM. the logical, rational choice is to separate from him for at least 6 months, ideally a year, and to go to Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meetings at least once a week, and to make no commitments to him at all until you have stepped away and watched his recovery progress.

Staying with him while he is in active addiction or early recovery is not good for either of you.

But YOU LOVE HIM and you cannot imagine giving him up.

So.....

1. Get yourself tested for STD's. Require a condom henceforth.
2. Go to Al-Anon as if your life depended on it, weekly, at least, and for 6 months minimum.
3. Delay the wedding plans for one year.

Can you consider these changes?
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:18 PM
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P.S. Al-Anon literature says that it often takes 2-3 years of attending Al-Anon before the spouse of an alcoholic is willing to change anything in the relationship.

I think partners of drug addicts just can't wait that long. Drugs are a lower, darker, more dangerous world, in my opinion.

But you need meetings with people in recovery. Or else you will lose your mind.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:49 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990 View Post

Crack IS a form of cocaine.
See people; that wasn't so difficult was it ?
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:41 PM
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we can't help with the "actual" issues because we aren't really informed as to what they are...as in, WHERE was he for 4 days? and HOW do you know the results of the drug test?
if you come to this board and seek some help with your situation you need to help us understand the situation better.
there is so much lying and deceit around drug use that we try to help people see through it, from our experience strength and hope.
your description sounds just like what we have all seen before.
you're telling us what you think it isn't but not sharing information that would help clarify

where was he?
how do you know the results of the drug test?
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:47 AM
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I'm not sure what goes on with these drug tests. My son was using hard core drugs (he admitted it to me afterwards) but when I had him admitted to the hospital the next morning, after I found him, his tox screen came up showing only Mairjuana. My point is, for some reason these drug tests don't seem to be terribly accurate.

Even if he wasn't using drugs during his disappearance.. does it matter? Is it acceptable for you to be in a relationship with someone who is going to disappear for days at a time and leave you worrying about him? Would you ever do that to him? The reason is irrelevant. In a relationship each partner has a certain amount of responsibility to each other and, in my book anyway, letting the other person know you're going to be MIA for a few days would definitely be an expectation.

My son is my A. I can't describe the amount of love I have for him. However, I've come to realize (only after being worn down to the point that I was physically and emotionally broken) that no amount of love can save him and until HE decides he's had enough, there's nothing that will stop him. Trust me when I tell you I completely understand you wanting to support and love your A but it is 100% true that the best -- and really the ONLY -- way you can do that is by Letting Go and allowing him to figure this out on his own.

Imagine you had a daughter (or a best friend) who was in your exact position.. what advice would you give her?

I know this advice can be hard to take. It's not what we want to hear. We want to hear that if we just do X, our A will miraculously get better, revert back to the person we they were before their addiction, and we'll all live happily ever after. It's not fair, it's not easy.. but, unfortunately, it is what it is.

In your original post you pointed out many things you did not know about this man and said, "who the **** is this man". That is a HUGE red flag that you two are not ready for marriage. As others have said.. stay and support him if you must, but PLEASE, do not marry him right now. Get to some Al-Anon/Nar-Anon meetings to better learn from others who have been there and to learn what it really means to "support" an addict (because it really goes against our natural instincts).

Best of luck to you.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:40 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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I really dont think we should be trying to act as paranoid as an addict - the man was admitted to the hoispital and put in the psychiatric ward for weeks.
I think it is safe to say that they did a batter of tests; including not just urine test for drugs, but blood tests. I think we should not be doubting the hospitals credibility here. So for the sake of sanity - assume he was not out doing drugs those 3 days if she says the tests were clean.

From what I have read about cocaine and been told by my RABF - the use of it, and the withdrawl of it creates terrible lows, or depression. Its hard to say what happened to the man in those 3 days; sine we are going to now assume he wasnt using crack (a form of cocaine) - there other scenarios to explain his condition when he returned. i.e. no one even conisdered maybe he was drinking not drugging, etc.

But does it really matter anyway?

I think OP real question is going to be answered only by her views of the institution of marriage, and her acceptance that this patten on activity MAY never end. I disagree with those of you that say it WILL never end; that is the speak of the hopeless. It does happen. I dont think its wise to expect it to happen however. You cant base your life and its decisions on what might happen. i.e Dont go maxing out your credit card cause you might win the lotto Friday.

In my opinion, I would postpone the wedding; in your original post - you said you felt like by continuing your path and plans for the marriage - were telling him it was ok to use. Well, now tell him its not ok to use; and that you have been hurt. Send the sign that unless he does continue to get help and stick with it; that you wont be there in that future the two of you planned.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WMaxwell View Post
He has been clean since September 11, 2011. By clean, I mean he has not used crack or drank alcohol.

What I am dealing with today is addictive behaviors. It starts with him picking fights with me daily. Then it escalates to threats of him moving out. Before I know it he's visiting old friends that he used to get high with (this is the stage I am in now). The next step is he actually moves out. While he is gone he will get high. Then he will be my forgiveness, blame all of our problems on his addiction, and move back home.

I used to get all bent out of shape about him leaving me. I dont now because I know he comes back. I expected at least ONE more relapse.

He's doing everything right as far as I know. He went to rehab for a month (his idea...we were seperated at the time) he has been going to NA Meetings regularly, he got a sponsor.

I don't know if he's working the steps yet or not; he tries to shut me out of his recovery process for some reason. Maybe you can shed some light on this?

M1k3, You have been clean for 20+ years, so it is possible...but I expect a few more relapses before he makes the changes necessary to be clean and sober for more than a few months. I guess I'll just keep taking it until I can't take it any more :-/
Sorry but that isn't me. My problem is with my AW and was with my AF. I have never had a drug/alcohol addiction problem. I will admit I a have gone and looked over the edge a couple of time but never had the desire to jump.

My experience with my AW has been multiple detoxes, rehabs, emergency room visits, fights, screaming, despair, failures and finally me leaving her after 36 years of marriage. Her last binge finally broke something.

I know this is hard. I had to get to the point where I was starting to see death as my best option for stopping the pain.

You are in a position where you can walk away with out having to hike the whole way across hell.

Try reading the following threads in the friends and family of alcoholics forum for an idea of what your life would be like.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-1-a.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-2-a.html

It is your choice to make. Just know that if you marry him you are very likely starting a downward spiral in your life that will only end when you hit your bottom. I have been there and do not recommend it.

Your friend,
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