lesliej

so sorry about the length of this post, just had to write...

I am glad that the holidays are behind us.
It has been seven weeks since my exABF moved to a sober house, I asked him to leave because I caught him lying and using crack again.
I am still pretty confused, even in a place of a great deal of serenity.

I think I have detached with love, but I wonder if I am also in denial sometimes.
There are many reasons why I have loved this man so much. I still love him but I am just not sure how I love him. We have had maintained some contact, although it hasn't been much because at first I was so angry that I wanted to just completely disconnect. However I have found myself having conversations with him.

He showed up at a church event that I helped organize/create and fell into his role of totally helping me load in and out and was hugely supportive and encouraging and loving. On Christmas morning I found very thoughtful and beautifully meaningful gifts on my doorstep and we ended up in a two hour phone talk that night. Then two nights ago I went to a concert at a place we always went to see music together, and I texted him and told him I was there and thinking of him and within 15 minutes he showed up.

This is the thing, he really does show up in my world in the most beautiful, meaningful, supportive ways. He always was my biggest fan and shared a language with me around recovery, spirituality and psychology. He has been present for so many landmark events in the last two years.

Then, he would start to think that he "had gotten" the program and would slack off a little. I could usually see where his program would be deteriorating. Next thing he would disappear into some binge and not make it home until 2am...which is when I would discover his use.

Now our conversations are all about recovery, as they are whenever he finishes his binge.

I am in a place of ambiguity. I am not sure what will happen. It may be that I wait to see how it goes over the next several months to a year...I think I should be able to tell by the presence or absence of progress in his life if he is really doing the deal. Part of the reason I live in the softer/easier "ambiguity" is that I don't want to let him go entirely.

Even though he would go off on binges I still believed that he loved me. I have seen that he can really work hard on a program, and I have seen him make progress. I would love to be with him if he gained some more clarity and a deeper rooting in recovery and was able to move forward.

It is so hard to know, there are no guarantees.
When he expresses his feelings to me now about how much he loves me I still want to believe him. Sometimes I feel like all I hear on this site is that anything that comes out of an addicts mouth is a lie or manipulation.

He wouldn't be getting anything out of his talking to me accept for the possibility of love...as time passing in recovery would maybe allow. There isn't any money, or housing, or enabling on that level. My fear has been that my love for him enables him.

I get afraid that letting him know that I love him somehow makes him think that he's not so bad...that the addiction doesn't have him so bad. It's this weird twist of recovery that I always struggle with...if I can't cause it, cure it or control it...then how would my love for him affect it?

Can enabling exist on this level? If I am having conversations that deal with our issues, sorting through the anger and blaming and projection and trying to support an understanding of addiction and recovery...isn't that a good thing?

I am almost afraid to be honest that I am engaged in conversation with him.
Just had to put it out there, willing to hear if I am missing a blind spot.

eyeswideshut1

Leslie, I think that it was very courageous for you to set new boundaries (i.e. moving out) when you discovered he was using. I went "no contact" with my XABF a couple months ago, but like you I have continued to want to reach out, too. My XABF has completely ignored my texts and e-mails, so unlike in your situation, I haven't actually had any contact with him, despite my attempts. But still, I'm starting to realize that by still sending him texts and e-mails, I'm hanging onto the fantasy of him, and it's keeping me stuck. So long as I'm emotionally bound up in my XABF, I'm not truly open to a new relationship. I guess I tell this story because I wondered after reading your post whether it would be useful for you to focus for a minute on how your continued contact is affecting YOU instead of worrying whether you're enabling HIM. By keeping the fantasy alive with him, are you missing out on the chance to find the truly rewarding relationship you deserve? Just a thought. I wish you peace and clarity in the New Year!

laurie6781

I am going to come right out and say it, no say several things.

I think you are in love with the FANTASY.

I think you are in love with what he COULD BE.

and

I think you are in love with the idea of having a 'mate' on your arm.

I will tell you what my AA sponsor told me after my divorce from my 2nd husband.

I was to take a FULL YEAR. Live along with me. No single dating, just group dating if dating at all.

I was to GET TO KNOW ME. GET TO LIKE ME. GET TO ENJOY ME.

Well, it took me more than a year, took me more like 3 years. However, I started to notice, that those folks that were 'attracted' to me or 'drawn' to me, were more like my 'insides.' I started to realize that my insides were VERY IMPORTANT and when I am socializing with folks that are on my 'wave length' there is som much 'more' of everything.

I guess what I am trying to say is maybe it is time to go No Contact, and just work on YOU.

When you are working on you, and cleaning out the 'wreckage' of your own, it does not give you time to 'help' or be supportive of another.

Work the program for you that you would like to see your Ex work for him. You never know you may become an 'example' for him as you heal.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Hanna

Hey Leslie -
It sounds like there are some great aspects to him, and it shows that you really love him. I'm sure he does love you, too. But the way you are describing what happened at the church here is different than how you described it at the time. He might be helpful, but he was doing alot of button pushing, too and it didn't end well. I think it's easy to gloss over stuff like that when you love someone and are suddenly seeing their best side but it was just a few weeks ago that he was clearly not focused on his own program, at least that day.

Maybe with time things will be different but I hope you'll keep a look out and give it time before trying to work through things with him.

~Hanna

ColetteTocca

Leslie

Your post struck me because before I met my husband I had fallen for a man who sounds so much like your ex. He was great looking, romantic, captivating and capable of great acts of selfless generosity....WHEN he wasn't using. I remember times when he had me utterly convinced that he wasn't using, was going to meetings, outpatient rehab, had cleaned up his act, etc. only to discover that he lied. Yes, he was a great guy but unfortunately he was an addict too. I decided ultimately I couldn't deal with the addict part so I left. I lost contact with him so I have no idea if he got sober or not. I decided to work on me and my heartbreak.

You know how you alluded in your post that their are no guarantees in life? I concluded that same thing and decided that I couldn't wait around to see if MAYBE he would get it together and achieve lasting sobriety. Not when he had lied again and again. Nope, I decided this is my life and I needed to decide how it unfolds, and not leave it to someone else to steer my course.

I wish you the best but I think you know what you need to do. I know it's hard. Despite being reasonably happy for the last 10+ years, I still get twinges when I occasionally see someone on the street who resembles my ex

lesliej

It is so great to have this site as a resource, the replies that you all have taken time to send are a balm to some of the confusion and loneliness I feel.

Just a couple specific replies...Cynical: I hear you. Sometimes when we have been together and are talking recovery I can get a little sick of it (bamboo shoots!) I have been working a program for six years and have been working al anon as well now for a year. After a while it becomes ingrained to a certain point and I have a lot of other things going on too in my life. Sometimes it feels like he only has recovery to talk about...to "speak" it. He has been in and out for twenty years. Binges, always short term binges, break up his time. Hasn't had a year in twenty. The recovery speak can be just that...a talking head.

Laurie: there is definitely the fantasy of being with him without drugs. I guess it will forever remain a fantasy until the day one of us dies. I don't know if I could ever really believe he was entirely clean. But I am also in love with what he IS too. when he isn't using, which in our two years together was 90% of the time. I look around at other relationships surrounding me and to be really honest I just always thought that I was happier with him than I saw anyone else in a relationship. Sounds bizarre right? I see people enabling obesity. I see insane cig smokers/diet coke slammers/shopaholics who hide it all and everyone lets them, I see sexless marriages and affairs. I quite honestly do not have a single relationship around me that i would want.

When I got sober six years ago I remained single for four years. I was happy. I was content. I thought to myself, well hey I had my time with men...now it is time to be single and just do my life, my work. When I met Gavan it was due to the levels we connected on that I fell in love with him. Maybe a part of it was that he loved me so much too. But it wasn't that I had a mate. Now that I have been with him, and felt the way I felt about him...it is just so hard to walk away entirely. He wants me to consider waiting for him. It would be really hard to see him in six or nine or twelve months and see that he has been in recovery and that I didn't leave the possibility open.

Hanna: I know that I had posted about the church before...that was when I was loading in, and you are right, we had conflict that day. There is a lot of pain and defensiveness in the dissolve of what we had. But then he came back for the night of the performance and stayed and broke the whole thing down with me, just as he would have normally...he was always there for my creative projects, cheering me on and supporting me. And then we talked and talked again. I think we have been creating a "clean break" in our wake. And this "clean break" is a discussion about the deal breaker of addiction.

Anyhow...I will continue to move forward into life on my own. I guess I am kind of letting time and patience take me forward. I keep praying to turn it all over and I really just keep letting go. I am taking care of myself.

If nothing else, whatsoever good, was to come of this last two years I swear to you all that I have learned to love myself more deeply and compassionately. There are parts of myself that had been closed to the world. My heart had not been opened for a long time and Gavan helped me to open it. If we are not meant to be together then that means his addiction was too much for him to break. But I will walk knowing that he brought me to my knees...more than once...and each time what I found there was a deeper need to love myself further.

I do not want to live this life alone...or I should say I would rather not. I know that there will be friends and community and family all around me. It's just that I thought he was my man, and really he was...even in his addiction. But I know that...I know that it is unhealthy to allow the addiction so close, to love someone who dances with the devil. It's just that I got to be with him the other 90% of the time...and now I don't get to be with him.

Illusion. True Love. High Romance. Dopamine Flood. who knows, I probably never will

lesliej

Colette,
the lies are hard. the pain of the lies disappears too quickly. then, as I come to understand addiction more and more, it becomes clear that the lies are a symptom, a condition that must exist in order for him to use...along with the shame that accompanies it. I wish for him that he did not have to live within the lies and the shame, because I pray for his recovery.

In the meantime I have chosen not to live with the lies and to separate...and also not to lie myself about having confusion and doubt around the decision. part of my ability to make the moves I have made is because I have not wanted to live in shame...
it appears the lies and shame are contagious which is a reason why I have created the break and distance. I do not know if I will ever be able to trust him fully...which would be the prerequisite for the possibility of re-engaging in a full relationship with him.

for now I slowly de-tangle and let the strands of our love fall away.
I can only imagine that seeing him, months from now, if he stays the course and I hadn't seen him occasionally in the interim...would be very difficult...it's as though I am trying to protect myself from future heartache...either way!

Ann

Oh sweetie, you must be dating my son. As much as I love my son, my heart would break for the ladies he "wooed". He was charming, well-mannered, kind, loving, funny, sensitive and good looking...all things a woman loves in a man, and he was genuinely like this when he was clean or between using. But this dear man turned into a thief, a liar, a manipulator and a sad dysfunctional man incapable of holding a job for any length of time when he used. It was always just a matter of time.

Addicts aren't bad people, they are sick people, and all the love in the world cannot save them if they will not save themselves.

You sound pretty level headed and I hope you can find clarity and keep yourself safe and see this relationship for what it is, not what it "could" be. People can change, people DO change, and we have some wonderful double winners right here. But if this man hasn't changed in 20 years, the odds are not good that he will change any time soon. And if he does, it will take time for him to work on his recovery without a relationship to distract him.

Whatevery you choose, we're walking with you because the choice is always yours to make.

Hugs

frankly

"I am almost afraid to be honest that I am engaged in conversation with him."

This jumped out at me. In my own recovery, the thing that helped me the most was coming here and being able to be very open and honest. Even if my choices did not fall in line with what I was "supposed" to be doing. The one and only place that I could come and be that open and honest was here. As my recovery continued, right now, today, I can be open and honest anywhere. I no longer fear others approval of me or my choices. "Take what you need and leave the rest" there is no set stone of exactly what will work for you and what will not. There is no right or wrong. The program works if you work it. I strongly believe that. I also believe that the program is not a one size fits all. I believe that it is a templet to be used to cut and form your own pattern (your own recovery) tailored to your life and your needs.

It is a tool to help you. How you use it is your choice, after all, you are the only one who will have to live with those decisions. No one can tell you to do this or not do that. They can only tell you what worked for them or what didn't. It is up to you to take that information and decipher it and decide what will help you and what will not.

My hope for you, is that you can come here and speak freely, openly and honestly, without fear. That even if you make decisions that may not appear to be in line with what people think you should do, that you are comfortable enough with yourself to know you are making decisions that are right for you and your situation.

Many times in my recovery I faced decisions. Some of them made me feel like I wanted to do one thing, but felt like I should do the opposite. It left me conflicted and anxious. I didn't want to make a mistake. I was terrified of making a mistake in my own recovery. I learned, with the help of others here before me, that sometimes, I had to just step back and be quiet, find a peaceful place and just quietly open up my mind and my heart to where my HP was trying to guide me. For me, it worked every time. As I sat quietly and listened, a peace and a calm would envelope me, and I knew, I just knew which direction to take. Most of the time, that direction ended up being in line with what most here had experienced, but sometimes it didn't. Sometimes I was meant to experience something different, and that was OK too. It wasn't wrong because it was different, it was right for me and my life. Sometimes it seemed to create more heartache in my life, but taught me things I had to learn myself. Other times what I thought was the worst decision I could ever make, ended up being the very best thing to happen in my life.

My point is, it is your path, follow it without fear. There is a reason for everything, both good and bad.

Love, hugs and Prayers.
B

Eddiebuckle

Amen. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

lesliej

thank you Frankly for your gentle words of wisdom.

the process I am involved in affects me on every level, emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual. the process of discernment, decision, discipline, discovery etc etc

what I am trying to move through is shame. shame is an old wound and involves the part of my life where I learned how to "get love". this goes back to the part where I learned to navigate my fathers rage...a dangerous place that no one else wanted to go...in order to get the love I could find, a rare and scarce source in a large dysfunctional family. this way of finding love..."dangerous" high risk or "unacceptable" places continued in my formation as an ongoing process of becoming an "adult"
still trying to learn at 48!

I find myself repeating this pattern I guess. even though I didn't know it at the start...I did not know the extent of the "danger" the shame. I was immersed in recovery and spirituality...and discovered the love of an addict. when one loves an addict the labels and incredulity begins. the love that I found there is heartbreaking to let go of. and, because he is a binge/relapse long-term addict the love is often relabeled as manipulation and deceit. I am told he can't love me, that an addict only loves drugs. but I don't believe it. my disbelief, my belief in our love, becomes denial.

my love is relabeled as codependency and addiction.

my stubborn loyalty. my romantic belief. this is labeled as fantasy. what could be. but the love is/was it glimmers and exists and then is stolen, disappears...and then reappears in his program, always stronger.

it is out of my greatest fear, that I am enabling him with my love, that I try to turn away. we are not together for almost two months. but we still share encouragement and support. we fight, struggle, work through and find grounding on issues of pain, hurt, blame and struggle...in the search for serenity and gratitude. it is out my fear that I am a distraction rather than an ally that I consider withdrawing...this is one source of my SHAME that eats at me

I struggle with shame and do not know what its true is source yet.
I am still willing to seek growth and understanding in the nurturing of compassion that grows around this
I thank you for loving kindness...
shame cannot exist where transparency and honesty are encouraged (given heart)
I need to be witnessed. and consider carefully all voices of that witness

eventually maybe I will peel away another layer and discover that, indeed, this love was just fantasy. I realize, intellectually, the risk factors of that possibility, even probability.
my recovery at this point includes meetings, sponsor, community, this page, readings, and yes, some exchanges with him...someone I love/d deeply even in the midst of dangerous risk. my sponsor tells me I need to learn how to protect myself more, and I feel good at the level of separation I have finally attained.

just still working through confusion of decisions for my future possibility
stubbornness, recalcitrance can be transformed and known as perseverance
I will persevere in the name of love, understanding and compassion, whether with him or without him as a partner

I think we will always be "in relationship" he has been hugely formative in my life...it's just a matter of understanding what that relationship is. maybe we just share a common circle of recovery and I am learning to do so without pain, hatred, heartbreak and resentment. my heart perception can grow in embracing acceptance

TiredandSpent

Exactly. Are you holding on to what could be instead of dealing with what IS?

And do you recognize that there might be elements of fantasy clouding your judgement and holding you back?

lesliej

ok...so in the manner of transparency and honesty I will say this concerning fantasy and such...

the truth is that I am an alcoholic. I am in recovery. I come from a big dysfunctional family. I have a pretty sketchy background. I have a fair load of issues. while my self esteem isn't perfect I think it's kind of realistic!

I was single for four years. I was not asked on a date. I really thought I was "done". I felt pretty okay with that. I was pretty comfortably settled with that. There are, actually, statistical odds concerning my ACTUAL likelihood of finding a life partner. seriously, very seriously, slim odds. I look around and I simply DO NOT see this "truly rewarding relationship" taking place in the lives of those around me...including my sponsor! everybody seems to deal with big issues, and relationship struggles...or they simply settle, shut up and live life out in some false sense of security.

I think that relationships probably always include a little fantasy.

The truth is that G was my best friend and confidante. and actually still kind of is. even in this separation. he knows my issues and we work on issues together.
his giant issue of relapsing crack smoking, is of course, a major issue, a life threatening issue! it is a very clear indication that he has some deep work to do.
but when I look around and see all these others...

re: a twenty year "engagement" with someone who you can't marry because they evade taxes and you haven't had sex with for around eight years because they are obese.

seriously...that is one of the people telling me my love, because he is an addict, is a fantasy.

another? how about a best friend who is struggling with depression because she feels like she has settled for a big clumsy mentally ill (medicated) older man...she questions her love for him all the time. but because he doesn't lie to her (of course an addict lies about use... that is "what an addict does") then her relationship is okay and mine is not.

I call that a fantasy.

I really do not believe that there is a relationship alive that does not contain some level of "fantasy" or mask or whatever. I feel like at least with G the horrible lying crack addict the truth comes out and the heavy gets put on the table.

he struggles and keeps keeps keeps going back in to recovery.

I struggle and keep keep keep hoping that he will make it

I do have a fantasy that he will make it

maybe the engaged couple has a fantasy about losing weight and paying all the back taxes and actually having sex...maybe just once

maybe the other woman has a fantasy of being excited, or even interested, in the man she claims to "love"

fantasy gets tossed around. the reality of the love I have experienced is seriously challenged and threatened and may not survive the demands, difficulty and pain of addiction and recovery...but still, it was, has been and is. I think the idea that there is a "fantasy" of it is not the issue. The fact for me is that I have been with that love, I have been living, on a daily basis in a lot of really great ways, with that love. The fact that the man I love disappears to smoke crack does not mean that the majority of the time we have spent together is a fantasy. it was not "what could have been" it was what was.

It is not what it "could be" in the future, in recovery, it is what could be in the future, in recovery. that is part of what we talk about, the inkling of a possibility and whether it exists or not...we do not talk about a fantasy. we talk about the reality of whether trust would be possible or not...would therapy help...that time will certainly help....that if we eventually decide we are interested that a strong recovery program, and some therapy and our love would maybe work.

I think that is more of a reality based perception than ignoring the over eating, the over shopping, the discontent, etc etc
or...less of a fantasy, than watching a handful of single, beautiful, fun, healthy friends I have struggling through an endless succession of dating...not finding anyone they are interested in...

therein lies my supposed fantasy, I am more than interested, connected, excited by, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually matched in G, and I am in love with him...and I am not even sure how now, and whether it would ever work or not...but I really don't think that I am in love with a fantasy

maybe in love with the possibility...of recovering love

lesliej

what IS at this point, for me, is a seed of a possibility.

that I am living with in a place of letting go and serenity

the fact that I hold that seed of possibility in my heart, that feels like it is shameful sometimes in the eyes of recovering community...I am exploring that shame...
and I thank all of you so much for input and reflection and challenge!

TiredandSpent

So it's okay to have an fantasy relationship because other people do? That makes it healthy for either of you?

Have you looked at healthy relationships not based on fantasy? What do those friends say?

eyeswideshut1

"It may be that I wait to see how it goes over the next several months to a year...I think I should be able to tell by the presence or absence of progress in his life if he is really doing the deal."

Leslie, I guess these were your words that made me think you are still hoping that one day your ABF will act differently, or "do the deal"--in other words, fantasizing about how the relationship might be if you continue to stay involved and monitor it for another year. You seem to be hoping/fantasizing that at some point the crack binges will stop and the two of you can get back together, yes?

lesliej

tired and spent,
I seriously do not have any relationships in my circle that I consider "healthy" or a model of what I would want...I seriously considered the better part of my relationship with G better than most of what I saw happening in relationships around me that did not have the deal-breaking crack addiction.

I am not saying that what I had was a "fantasy" relationship...I am saying it gets labeled a fantasy because there is addiction involved. this is shaming. I am saying that I have not seen a relationship that does not have issues...major issues, seriously! no, really, seriously! I think the idea of some "truly rewarding relationship"...without the work to create said relationship...which means working through issues and especially when said partners are alcoholics/addicts and come from severely dysfunctional histories... is a fantasy.

I know what I have to offer...good and bad. I work to create better good, and I work to let go of the bad
I have seen G do the same. we have shared our stories and our struggles.
we communicate. we work on it.
his using caused me to ask him to leave
his recovery, if he has the grace to find a deeper source of recovery, may invite me back in to relationship.
I do not know. time will reveal.
the fact that I have not let go of that as a possibility in the future is not a fantasy.

I think I am looking at some pretty realistic life issues right now.
if the experience strength and hope that surrounded me, in recovery and in "normie" life led me to believe that truly rewarding relationships were to be had at ones beckoning...that it didn't involve long searches and struggles and sadness and compromise and waiting and working out issues...if I had real life models of healthy partnerships and love ripe for the picking...without the intensive work involved...then I would believe THAT fantasy.

I think that we find love on our journey and it is what we do with that love that counts
I think I found love in G and, yet he has an enormous burden of crack addiction to try to overcome in recovery.
I believe that we had love. I believe that we still love one another, even in our separation. I believe that there might be some possibility in the future...even though it is probably slim. I believe that I will look back on this and honor this love, rather than call it a fantasy.

I also believe that you may be very ready to push buttons on anything I say because of how my comments to you in the past have been misinterpreted...say what you will, but I think our connection is probably damaged.

Kindeyes

It is quite evident that you are really searching your soul to find the answers in your own life and how/if your guy fits into your life.

I love what Frankly said. It was kind and gentle, based upon his own experience, strength and hope. Those are the kind of words that mean the most to me here on SR. We all learn at our own pace, through our own experiences. Sometimes our lessons are very painful but they are our own experiences.....our lessons to learn. It would be nice if we could have strangers who don't know us orchestrate our lives but that is not realistic. We take what we need and store the rest.....because all of the words I read here on SR may come into play in my world at some point.

Live your life and learn. We all have revelations periodically that help us progress forward. Time always reveals more.

I was told once by a very wise therapist that guilt and shame have a specific purpose. To keep us from doing something we shouldn't do or to make us do something we should. It makes no sense to hold on to shame or guilt that is no longer serving a purpose. I often have to ask myself when I feel shame or guilt if it serving a specific purpose.....if the answer is "no", I know it's time to let it go.

Congrats on your six years of sobriety.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

eyeswideshut1

Leslie, I am struggling with this too--with distinguishing between my fantasies about my AXBF and the things I genuinely loved about him. There were genuine reasons why I loved my AXBF and we had a real connection. We had shared interests in books and movies and music, we loved to talk for hours. That part was not a fantasy for me, either. What was a fantasy was my hope that he could get clean. He is still using, and will continue to until he decides to stop. It is what it is, unfortunately, although I wish with all my heart it could be different.

lesliej

I hope...what you call fantasy...for Gavan's recovery regardless of whether we are together romantically or not. We are in the same circles of recovery, we come from the same home town, he works occasionally with my brother, our lives overlap in social circles, even outside recovery.

I guess my hope is that we come to a place of understanding, without all of the drama and pain and blaming. In my heart I am coming to a place of compassion and understanding. Yes, in another life...down the road, around the bend...as I continue to see G in our intersecting circles, and as we share reflections on our individual journeys...it could and would be quite clear to me if he was living a program of recovery. His life would show it, and I would see it, because I know him and have loved him. This is how we all witness one another in life. Sometimes, people learn to witness rather than monitor. Sometimes, when and as recovery works, people find a forgiveness.

I am neither grasping nor letting go. I live in the presence of the moment and feel my heart and do the next right thing. I practice my program. Chances of the future are mostly unlikely. What I brought to this forum was my initial anger and my intent to go no contact. As my anger has subsided I find that I do not know the purpose or path or intention of my higher power...yet. I find that I am in a place of peace as I make peace with the emotions I have felt and the place of love and separation, and loss of love to addiction, that I have experienced.

This process is complex for me. I guess this last post was about stating the truth about my "contact" status, and speaking to the confusion that I am working through. Part of working through that confusion is to take away the "shame of fantasizing" about love.

When Pandora opened her box and released all the spites upon the world of humankind...the only saving grace was "hope". I will honor hope, not at the exclusion of other life possibilities. I will not "hold out hope" but simply let it exist, and become manifest in the possibility of it. I will not crucify hope under the mantle of shame by calling it fantasy.