lesliej

it is not even hope to be with him!
it is simply hope.
hope for love

because I know of love with him that hope exists
I love my self, my being, my life
I do not want to live with active addiction
there is a very small, very small, place, and it seems to fade away with time, where my hope for love
and my hope for his recovery meet...but that intersection of hope is not the intention of its being
recovery is unto itself

lesliej

Kindeyes: "It makes no sense to hold on to shame or guilt that is no longer serving a purpose. I often have to ask myself when I feel shame or guilt if it serving a specific purpose.....if the answer is "no", I know it's time to let it go."

yes. that is what this process feels like, letting go of the shame!!
in part, for me, it is reclaiming the love I felt without the shame I felt for loving someone who struggled with addiction
it is my love to have, to give, to feel, to share. in letting go of his shame, his addiction, I gather back up the pieces of my heart and the strands that were connected to him, and those that still are,
and clear away my own wreckage

YearForMe

I've become especially wary of anyone who tries to make me feel "too" good about anything.

That has to come from within me.

If they can step in and flood my emotions and make me feel all special.....red flags start flying in my head.

Chino

I've been married for 27 years and there are no fantasies, illusions, or whatever you want to call, left for either of us. I'm the one who had the hardest time letting go and accepting as is.

TiredandSpent

So nothing I say will have any value to you because you've decided I 'misinterpreted' what you've said in the past. I'm not capable of seeing flaws in your thinking, but somehow you believe you are capable of seeing flaws in mine?

You don't want to listen to what your friends say because they have fantasy unhealthy relationships, you don't want to listen to what I say because it may be motivated by spite, you certainly can disregard any observation you want, but maybe consider separating the observation from the observer. Perhaps if you can do that with G, the answers you are looking for will be clearer.

eyeswideshut1

oops

lesliej

actually it has been by listening to others that I have both found recovery myself, found a therapist and a sponsor and a recovery community and I have separated from a man I was planning to marry

I do listen tired & spent, actually I do.
if you want to find the one button in my post and push it...it would be shaming my by telling me that I am mistaken about love and that I am engaging in fantasy. and you did that...and I heard it. I am not saying your observations are flawed, I am saying that our connection may be damaged, flawed. you may continue as you wish...

I am sure you have more observations and suggestions about how to de-couple in a healthy, human, life and love affirming manner.

eyeswideshut1

Tired and Leslie, I think you two have both tried to give each other thoughtful and heartfelt advice. Keep an open mind; you might be able to teach each other a lot!

lesliej

life and love affirming manner.

Hanna

I have no words of advice, just positive thoughts, prayers and understanding. It is so very difficult to be in love with someone with so many wonderful qualities but one tragic issue. I, too have seen very few relationships that I would want to emulate and that makes it even more difficult. (More these days because I'm around some wonderful people, but I do see your point.)

It's so good that you are thinking deeply about it. I firmly believe we hold the answers inside of us. I don't know if it is a blessing or a curse that we can't see the future, but as long as you keep your eyes open (and it sounds like you do) and keep working your own program you will be okay no matter what come of this relationship.

Heartbroken0608

My therapist said to me during a session in which I was explaining all the positive qualities of my SA .. "so other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play". Ironically a person at work said the exact same thing to me the following day in relation to a problem at work. It really struck me that I had never heard that saying before in my life and for some reason it was said to me twice within 24 hours. After a lot of thought I realized that I have a problem with focusing on the "good" and ignoring the "bad". Oddly enough I use to think that was a positive trait of mine. In some instances it probably is, but in many others it is not.

For me, I had to come to the realization that my sons behavior was unacceptable, regardless of why, or any of his good qualities, etc. Addiction, and the behavior that accompanies addiction, is a deal breaker for me.

I'm not trying to tell you what is in your best interest. You're the only one who can decide that. I just wanted to share my experience.

newnormal4me

You are a deep thinker and sometimes it makes it harder to see the simplicities. I guess you are asking if your contact and showing of love is okay or not (enabling). I am in a similar place...a place where I am still holding on to something. I've separated myself from living with the chaos, but still... I guess the bigger question should be what is this contact and showing of love doing to "you"? If you see it just keeping you entangled, and unable to make progress on your own path, then maybe that is the answer. If you are still able to stay grounded, and continue to progress with the contact and showing of love, then it is probably okay for "you". Right?

So, if you are more concerned about enabling him, then where does that leave you? Just curious on that since you separated because you needed distance from him and his addiction. Do you think this showing of love and compassion through contact is hurting him? And, is this still just a continued distraction of keeping eyes on him and not on yourself? Believe me when I ask this I must ask myself these same questions.

Just a lame attempt at simplifying it. I hope. :-)

oneday66

Im in a similar place.
We are seperated but are starting to see each other weekly.
I will only see him if he's been clean 24 hrs and behaves well.
If we argue, or he's an ass I leave... But honestly its been really nice lately.
He plans our dates, is on time, pays (i wont see him or any man otherwise) and has actually tried to make peace if things get testy. He did cancel once because he had used, but he was honest (a first).
I struggled with the question of is this contact enabling him?
I dont know... I dont have an answer. My friends think Im insane for not divorcing him.
The only clarity I got was this... As long as this contact does not disrupt MY life...its ok for now.
I have my own place, job, schedule and peace of mind.. He needs to work around and fit into these things. It took me 6 months of hell and work to get here. He has tested my boundaries over and over and now that I stopped getting angry if he was late, changed plans, etc.. Simply told him no, we can try again next week... He stepped up. Hes also becoming very honest and confessional which is weird...anyways....my long winded way of saying do what feels right in your heart AND maintains your serenity

lesliej

greetings all...when I said that I really didn't believe that any relationship was "fantasy free" I followed it up by saying this... "fantasy gets tossed around. the reality of the love I have experienced is seriously challenged and threatened and may not survive the demands, difficulty and pain of addiction and recovery...but still, it was, has been and is. I think the idea that there is a "fantasy" of it is not the issue.

what I am trying to get at is that the instant "labeling" of fantasy is what I have dealt with and it is part of what I have been trying to delve into in my own recovery

because I have dealt with the "blame" of having loved a fantasy...because I had hope for recovery...I said I didn't think a relationship existed without the fantasy...the hope

what I mean is that...yes, maybe after many many years together you can have come to know and accept one another and support one another on so many deep and various levels...you come to live, fully live, with one another in relationship. but I do know, through the experience, strength and hope that I have shared with SO MANY couples...that the hope exists for better understanding, for growth, for healing. the hope (the FANTASY as I get labeled) exists that the partner will better relate in whatever way is necessary for the relationship to thrive and grow

funny, because I think growing is a lifelong process...coming to know ourselves and one another is a life long commitment. this I think involves hope. this is what I hold
but it gets labeled fantasy...

you see how the word triggers these reactions
if I said I didn't believe that there was a relationship out there that didn't involve hope I wouldn't get the same replies

and the mask? we all have to constantly peel back the layers and do the daily work of presenting ourselves with transparency. On any given day one may mask minor disappointments, hurt from unfulfilled expectations (even the smallest) etc. I think that on any given day we are sometimes called to mask our individual needs for the greater good. masking is natural...learning to be transparent and whole and use mask as a filter rather than a deception is the key

i in no way whatsoever intend to promote conventional definition of masking and fantasy as healthy relationship material...what I am saying is that the accusations of such can be so frustrating when it is done by people who are living with so many unresolved issues...and to be honest I don't know anyone who isn't. maybe they are just settled with them.

I congratulate those of you who have written to offer their long term success in relationship and to say that there is clarity and acceptance between you...that is what I want and work toward. we all have to learn what we can and cannot accept in the process of relating.

Chino

I'd still give you the same answer

There is no hope in my marriage, there is only acceptance.

lesliej

I like it.

lesliej

acceptance. yes.

lesliej

my acceptance, that he is struggling with addiction, and if I had unconditional love for him that involved staying with him, would be labeled enabling

lesliej

which was the first question of this whole post
I have been shamed into fearing that my love for him enables him

lesliej

it's all a moot point

I guess I can't accept the lies