Gave my son a 30 day notice
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 20
Gave my son a 30 day notice
I'm sitting here trying to second guess my actions last night. I found my 24 y/o son smoking pot in his room, after I had warned him that if it happened again he would be out of here. When I confronted him about how he had violated my clearly expressed rule of no illegal drugs in my house or property, he claimed he "never would have agreed to that!" I was seething because he was so brazen about smoking pot in his room. (This son has been living here for 2 years without working, without paying rent, without trying to find work. Although he claims he fills out applications on-line. Refuses to do menial labor or fast food work.)
I picked up his pot pipe and tossed it outside about 50 feet into the blackberry brambles. Not too mature of me, but that's what I did.
I then tried to cool down, walked away and tried to busy myself with other things, rather than cause an even bigger upset. Of course, all of my sons claimed I was making a big deal out of nothing. I did not take any further action that day. As is my usual routine, I tend to put things off for another time, and then never seem to follow through.
Last night I decided to build a fire in the woodstove, since a warm fire seems to make everyone feel better. But there was no kindling and no wood in the wood box. I went into the family room, where my 24 y/o and his brother (21 and on leave from the Army) were watching tv. I asked, "Would one of you two please chop some kindling and bring in some fire wood?" Neither one of them made a move, or even acknowledged my request at all. I repeated the same request a few minutes later, but this time the 24 y/o said, "Tell you what, I'll bring in some fire wood if you give me back my pipe. It wasn't yours to take." I responded with a rude comment, and then something clicked in and I told my son he had 30 days to find another place to live. He said, are you gonna give me money for rent, or just throw me out on the street? I said, "Not my problem." I made a note on the calendar that on January 28th he moves out.
So now I have to follow through. NO matter what, I simply can't renege on this. I know logically I did the right thing. I have been trying to find the courage to do this for a long time. I know I am a classic enabler and that I am hurting him by not making him grow up and find his own way. So I have taken this step. I hope and pray I will follow through this time.
Now I am wondering if I should have offered him treatment before throwing him out. Any suggestions?
I picked up his pot pipe and tossed it outside about 50 feet into the blackberry brambles. Not too mature of me, but that's what I did.
I then tried to cool down, walked away and tried to busy myself with other things, rather than cause an even bigger upset. Of course, all of my sons claimed I was making a big deal out of nothing. I did not take any further action that day. As is my usual routine, I tend to put things off for another time, and then never seem to follow through.
Last night I decided to build a fire in the woodstove, since a warm fire seems to make everyone feel better. But there was no kindling and no wood in the wood box. I went into the family room, where my 24 y/o and his brother (21 and on leave from the Army) were watching tv. I asked, "Would one of you two please chop some kindling and bring in some fire wood?" Neither one of them made a move, or even acknowledged my request at all. I repeated the same request a few minutes later, but this time the 24 y/o said, "Tell you what, I'll bring in some fire wood if you give me back my pipe. It wasn't yours to take." I responded with a rude comment, and then something clicked in and I told my son he had 30 days to find another place to live. He said, are you gonna give me money for rent, or just throw me out on the street? I said, "Not my problem." I made a note on the calendar that on January 28th he moves out.
So now I have to follow through. NO matter what, I simply can't renege on this. I know logically I did the right thing. I have been trying to find the courage to do this for a long time. I know I am a classic enabler and that I am hurting him by not making him grow up and find his own way. So I have taken this step. I hope and pray I will follow through this time.
Now I am wondering if I should have offered him treatment before throwing him out. Any suggestions?
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 609
Nov 2nd you sat with him to talk about a drug/alco evaluation?
I had to read back just a bit to get the skinny.
I'm wondering if he would try to approach you about that now that you're foot is down.
btw - I cannot believe both boys did that (about the kindling)! He wants his pipe back? :-X
He should take this as "Mom is serious. Crap. I better do something and do it quick".
I had to read back just a bit to get the skinny.
I'm wondering if he would try to approach you about that now that you're foot is down.
btw - I cannot believe both boys did that (about the kindling)! He wants his pipe back? :-X
He should take this as "Mom is serious. Crap. I better do something and do it quick".
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,864
He's 24 years old. He doesn't work and doesn't appear to be too worried about that. He pays you nothing for rent and disrespects you and your rules. No, you shouldn't have offered him anything. If he wants treatment, he can arrange it himself. He isn't 8 years old, he is an adult.
I know this is hard; I've had to make my daughter leave, although the circumstances were different. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. We were both crying when the day came, but I knew I had to do it. Turns out, it was the best thing that could have happened. It forced her to grow up. We don't do them any favors when we allow them to mooch off of us. Stay strong. You can do this and so can he.
I know this is hard; I've had to make my daughter leave, although the circumstances were different. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. We were both crying when the day came, but I knew I had to do it. Turns out, it was the best thing that could have happened. It forced her to grow up. We don't do them any favors when we allow them to mooch off of us. Stay strong. You can do this and so can he.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,698
Hi, I read a very powerful post today about the Karpman triangle, google it. It is the classic enabler-victim-prosecuter triangle. I immediately understood how my "victim" son was pushing all of my "rescuer" buttons. I believe you should follow through. As they say, "Nothing changes if nothing changes".
The read is long but definitely worth it. See link here
Drama Triangle: The Three Faces of Victim by Lynne Forrest
The read is long but definitely worth it. See link here
Drama Triangle: The Three Faces of Victim by Lynne Forrest
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((aviatrix))) - I'm an RA and if I disrespected my dad/stepmom like your sons did, I doubt I'd be given 30 days to find another place, not to mention drugs in the house - automatic out-the-door.
I didn't even think about recovery until a whole lotta doors had been shut in my face and a lot of bad consequences, some of which I'm still dealing with almost 5 years later.
I can't imagine how hard it is to make your child leave your home, but I really do think he needs a good dose of reality. Otherwise, he'll just keep doing the same.
BTW, if things get bad, you don't HAVE to hold to the 30 days. It's your home, you can do what you want to, and he already knows the rules.
Big hugs and prayers,
Amy
I didn't even think about recovery until a whole lotta doors had been shut in my face and a lot of bad consequences, some of which I'm still dealing with almost 5 years later.
I can't imagine how hard it is to make your child leave your home, but I really do think he needs a good dose of reality. Otherwise, he'll just keep doing the same.
BTW, if things get bad, you don't HAVE to hold to the 30 days. It's your home, you can do what you want to, and he already knows the rules.
Big hugs and prayers,
Amy
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
(((((aviatrix)))))
Sounds to me you reached the "enough is enough" that we all have to get to.
As to 'giving' him rent money, or 'offering rehab'. Nope, nope, nope. He is a Big Boy now, he is an Adult. His 'mooching' days have come to an end. He will now get to EXPERIENCE the CONSEQUENCES of his ACTIONS.
If you feel yourself 'slipping' come post, we'll boost you back up again. Remember we are walking with you in spirit.
Love and hugs,
Sounds to me you reached the "enough is enough" that we all have to get to.
As to 'giving' him rent money, or 'offering rehab'. Nope, nope, nope. He is a Big Boy now, he is an Adult. His 'mooching' days have come to an end. He will now get to EXPERIENCE the CONSEQUENCES of his ACTIONS.
If you feel yourself 'slipping' come post, we'll boost you back up again. Remember we are walking with you in spirit.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Do you give him spending money? Pot does not grow on trees.
That he smokes pot does not make him an addict. Are there rehabs for lazy bones?
Give this kid the dignity of experiencing the consequences of his choices. It's the only way he will ever consider alternatives.
That he smokes pot does not make him an addict. Are there rehabs for lazy bones?
Give this kid the dignity of experiencing the consequences of his choices. It's the only way he will ever consider alternatives.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Atlanta,GA
Posts: 38
You did nothing wrong. I wish my addict ex-bf's mother did the same as you throwing the pipe out of the window. (My ex's drug of choice was pot and alcohol was his other friend) I would say that 30 days is more than reasonable. You've given him everything and all he's giving you in return is selfishness and pissing and moaning.
I understand he's your son but you've done what you can for him. Stick to your deadline and I think the last thing you're able to do is to make sure all of his stuff is packed. You don't deserve any of what he's thrown in your face. Stay strong.
-Panda
I understand he's your son but you've done what you can for him. Stick to your deadline and I think the last thing you're able to do is to make sure all of his stuff is packed. You don't deserve any of what he's thrown in your face. Stay strong.
-Panda
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 20
No, I don't give him any spending money. But his little brother (who is in the Army) has been "loaning" him money and that must be supporting his pot and cigarette habit. Prior to the loan(s) from his brother, he had almost $10,000 in life insurance money from his dad's death two years ago. Fast food, cigarettes and pot is where that money went, I'm guessing.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Atlanta,GA
Posts: 38
Sounds like he might have a bit of ODD (Opposition Defiance Disorder). Again, my ex and my brother who are potheads and are going nowhere fast have this. It might not hurt to learn a little about ODD, I hope this helps.
Children With Oppositional Defiant Disorder | American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
Children With Oppositional Defiant Disorder | American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Don't be surprised if he has no plan in place when 30 days is up, and then asks for an extension.
Sadly, my son never once put a plan in place, I hope your child does better.
It was the hardest thing I ever did, making my son leave, but really it was he who made the choice when he didn't respect my boundaries and rules.
It made it easier for me when I gave him a list of detox numbers, rehabs (the Salvation Army program is free) and a meeting list where he could connect with others for help if he chose to.
I will keep you both in my prayers, this must be a terrible time for you.
Hugs
Sadly, my son never once put a plan in place, I hope your child does better.
It was the hardest thing I ever did, making my son leave, but really it was he who made the choice when he didn't respect my boundaries and rules.
It made it easier for me when I gave him a list of detox numbers, rehabs (the Salvation Army program is free) and a meeting list where he could connect with others for help if he chose to.
I will keep you both in my prayers, this must be a terrible time for you.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 146
You have my heartfelt sympathy. I have a 22 yo who I just chased out of the house. I threw him out for the first time last summer and he was miserable, hungry, and unable to even sleep in the park. I let him back in with the understanding that he'd get a job (40 hours opposed to 10 a week) and move out by December. That gave him abt 5 months to prepare.
And of course he had a couple other conditions: his 'rent' would be washing the dishes (which he did only once a week and very badly with attitude), no drugs (pot and alcohol are his DOC), and be pleasant.
For the most part he was pleasant. He got rude once and I made him leave for 3 days and after that he was pleasant. But just before Thanksgiving I caught him smoking pot while I was in the house. I was going to throw him out right then, but he begged, and I gave him to Dec 18th.
Dec 19th came and he had no place to go. I forced him out of the house, locked the door and went on vacation. I came back to a trashed house and we had a huge altercation that ended violently and with him pushing me to the ground and spitting on my younger son's face.
Now he's out of the house with nothing, and I'm devastated, angry and in horrible pain. And the rest of the family is in turmoil.
Thinking back on it, I think in my case, there was no amount of time I could have given my son to prepare. He is a pothead if not worse, and doesn't have the ability to think beyond a couple hours. He doesn't want to work, so he doesn't. And altho I threw him out once before, he didn't believe I'd do it again, or didn't care, or thought something would save him when the time came. Somehow it would all work out so he didn't have to plan anything. He just waited for the time to come, hoping maybe it wouldn't come, and figured if it did come, he'd wing it.
Now I have no idea where he is and such bad memories of him I don't care. I really don't care. A week ago I'd have never believed I wouldn't care but I don't.
Interesting thing. I used to cry almost every day before he left, now I don't. It's only been two days but...it's been 2 days of no crying.
I suspect it will be years before I see him again.
So you seem to be where I was six weeks ago. I hope your story turns out better. I have no advice. However, I do think maybe it's a waste of time to agonize over whether I should have given him more time or less. To people like my AS and maybe your son, time has no meaning. A week, a month, a year, it's all the same.
So don't worry about timing. If your son is like mine he will be no more prepared to leave in a month than he would this evening. I think their living strategy is to whine to their friends about how mean their mothers are and hope a friend offers a living situation. In my son's case apparently no one was interested.
I'm very sorry you are in this situation. I'm more sorry that your other children are not supportive of your struggle with their brother.
I think if I had to do it over, in MY case, the weekend before the scheduled move out, I would have taken him to a storage rental place and given him money for a rental unit IN HIS NAME and moved all his stuff there. It might have impressed upon him that I was serious and motivated him (but I doubt it), but more importantly, it would have removed a complicating factor when the moment came I had to FORCE him out. There would have been no dwadling and lingering around 'getting my stuff' which leads to opportunities for arguing and other unpleasantness. It makes for quicker, cleaner ejections.
The reason I emphasized that the rental unit should be in his name is because in my state at least, if someone else's possessions are left in your care, willingly or not, you have a legal obligation to take reasonable care of them and to return them in good order. So if he leaves a tv and you put in on the lawn to get rained on, you can be liable for the tv. A judge can interpret reasonable care to mean that you have to keep paying for the rental unit for three or six months, since by renting it in your own name you are essentially agreeing to take care of the items. This isn't legal advice, it changes from location to location, but only something to consider.
The comment your son made about you giving him rent reminds me of what mine said a month or so ago. I wanted him to wash dishes, remember it was his only obligation to the family and his 'rent' for staying in my house. He snottily told me there was nothing decent to eat in the house and he wasn't going to wash dishes until I went to the grocery store.
I was about to go to the grocery store, but decided that I wouldn't. Instead I took the other kids out to eat and brought take in for everyone but him. It was passive aggressive and he did buckle under and finally wash the dishes. But on retrospect I realized that him staying so long set us up for these kinds of games.
I think a case can be made in some instances (and it's for you to decide whether yours might be one of them) that a shorter period of time to leave is easier on everyone and produces the same results. I think that would have been true in my case.
Anyway I wish you strength and good luck. Please keep us updated. I'll watch for your posts and pray for you.
And of course he had a couple other conditions: his 'rent' would be washing the dishes (which he did only once a week and very badly with attitude), no drugs (pot and alcohol are his DOC), and be pleasant.
For the most part he was pleasant. He got rude once and I made him leave for 3 days and after that he was pleasant. But just before Thanksgiving I caught him smoking pot while I was in the house. I was going to throw him out right then, but he begged, and I gave him to Dec 18th.
Dec 19th came and he had no place to go. I forced him out of the house, locked the door and went on vacation. I came back to a trashed house and we had a huge altercation that ended violently and with him pushing me to the ground and spitting on my younger son's face.
Now he's out of the house with nothing, and I'm devastated, angry and in horrible pain. And the rest of the family is in turmoil.
Thinking back on it, I think in my case, there was no amount of time I could have given my son to prepare. He is a pothead if not worse, and doesn't have the ability to think beyond a couple hours. He doesn't want to work, so he doesn't. And altho I threw him out once before, he didn't believe I'd do it again, or didn't care, or thought something would save him when the time came. Somehow it would all work out so he didn't have to plan anything. He just waited for the time to come, hoping maybe it wouldn't come, and figured if it did come, he'd wing it.
Now I have no idea where he is and such bad memories of him I don't care. I really don't care. A week ago I'd have never believed I wouldn't care but I don't.
Interesting thing. I used to cry almost every day before he left, now I don't. It's only been two days but...it's been 2 days of no crying.
I suspect it will be years before I see him again.
So you seem to be where I was six weeks ago. I hope your story turns out better. I have no advice. However, I do think maybe it's a waste of time to agonize over whether I should have given him more time or less. To people like my AS and maybe your son, time has no meaning. A week, a month, a year, it's all the same.
So don't worry about timing. If your son is like mine he will be no more prepared to leave in a month than he would this evening. I think their living strategy is to whine to their friends about how mean their mothers are and hope a friend offers a living situation. In my son's case apparently no one was interested.
I'm very sorry you are in this situation. I'm more sorry that your other children are not supportive of your struggle with their brother.
I think if I had to do it over, in MY case, the weekend before the scheduled move out, I would have taken him to a storage rental place and given him money for a rental unit IN HIS NAME and moved all his stuff there. It might have impressed upon him that I was serious and motivated him (but I doubt it), but more importantly, it would have removed a complicating factor when the moment came I had to FORCE him out. There would have been no dwadling and lingering around 'getting my stuff' which leads to opportunities for arguing and other unpleasantness. It makes for quicker, cleaner ejections.
The reason I emphasized that the rental unit should be in his name is because in my state at least, if someone else's possessions are left in your care, willingly or not, you have a legal obligation to take reasonable care of them and to return them in good order. So if he leaves a tv and you put in on the lawn to get rained on, you can be liable for the tv. A judge can interpret reasonable care to mean that you have to keep paying for the rental unit for three or six months, since by renting it in your own name you are essentially agreeing to take care of the items. This isn't legal advice, it changes from location to location, but only something to consider.
The comment your son made about you giving him rent reminds me of what mine said a month or so ago. I wanted him to wash dishes, remember it was his only obligation to the family and his 'rent' for staying in my house. He snottily told me there was nothing decent to eat in the house and he wasn't going to wash dishes until I went to the grocery store.
I was about to go to the grocery store, but decided that I wouldn't. Instead I took the other kids out to eat and brought take in for everyone but him. It was passive aggressive and he did buckle under and finally wash the dishes. But on retrospect I realized that him staying so long set us up for these kinds of games.
I think a case can be made in some instances (and it's for you to decide whether yours might be one of them) that a shorter period of time to leave is easier on everyone and produces the same results. I think that would have been true in my case.
Anyway I wish you strength and good luck. Please keep us updated. I'll watch for your posts and pray for you.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,864
I agree with T&S. Giving him 30 days, to him, is 30 more days that he can goof off and smoke dope, get free food, free room and board, hot showers, etc. He won't spend that time making other arrangements. When the day comes, he'll almost definitely do what Ann said and ask for an extension, using guilt and manipulation. What it boils down to is he doesn't think you'll really make him leave, especially if he has nowhere to go.
Remember, that is not your problem. He will have had 30 days to take care of things, but he won't see it that way. In his eyes, you will be kicking him out onto the streets with nothing. They are so good at playing the victim.
You are always allowed to shorten that time frame, especially if he makes things difficult. It might be good to let him in on that, and put the bug in his ear that the 30 days is a favor, but favors can be withdrawn if they aren't appreciated.
Remember, that is not your problem. He will have had 30 days to take care of things, but he won't see it that way. In his eyes, you will be kicking him out onto the streets with nothing. They are so good at playing the victim.
You are always allowed to shorten that time frame, especially if he makes things difficult. It might be good to let him in on that, and put the bug in his ear that the 30 days is a favor, but favors can be withdrawn if they aren't appreciated.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I thought about this last night ..... like someone else said this gives him 30 days to not make a plan again and then beg for you to let him stay. I think it gives him time to manipulate you and try to break you down, make you feel guilty. It also gives you more time to second guess yourself ..... even though right now you know it's the right thing to do I would imagine it hurts just the same....if he's able to manipulate you because he knows you feel bad you might have a change of heart.
And yeah .... I second what OTC said about his entitlement crap.
I wish you all the luck and peace and serenity in the world!
And yeah .... I second what OTC said about his entitlement crap.
I wish you all the luck and peace and serenity in the world!
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