Hanna

Tired, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It would make me angry, too. You have every right to that emotion and all the others you are feeling.

I found some things on google about securing a window with an air conditioner in it. Basically recommends securing the unit to the window by drilling in screws.

Hugs and Prayers for you.

Shining~Again

~wonders how many people here have had stuff thrown at them, their stuff trash, throw into a yard, belongings of their kept~
I deleted everything else I wrote. This post is hugely triggering of memories of rage 'o holic doing the same kind of to me.
Not only did she do things that she never could take back and that haunted her till she died, but I've never forgotten every thing ever thrown at me, the punches, raging at me in bed, the throwing my stuff out of my home...and the hate when she was so angry at life.
btw - her mom did that kind of stuff to her and it had nothing to do with drugs. ever.

Chino

Me too, and then I ended up doing the same to my own daughter. I've been on both sides and it sucks. I don't ever want to go back 'there'.

TiredandSpent

Something nice happened to me today. My mother called as I was driving home from work and asked how I was. And then listened.

As I mentioned earlier, I talked to her the day I forced my son out and she listened and said, uh-huh, that's a shame. So, how's the dog. And I said, the DOG is fine, I'M a mess. And there was a long silence.

My mother has NEVER called me to ask how I'm doing. I've been divorced twice and treated badly both times and she's always been the apologist for people who treat me badly. She never calls, in fact no one in my family calls me. If I don't call them, I'd never hear from them. After the dog comment, I'd pretty much resolved that I wasn't going to call any more. I'm only going to match the relationship efforts other people put out. I'm not going to care more than they do.

And then she called. It meant a lot to me. She's not ever going to be much of a support for me, but it was still nice. I think she was ashamed of her dog comment.

Anyway, I've heard nothing from AS. It actually got pretty cold last night so he probably found a place to stay. Lots of his friends are staying with their parents while they are on college break; I don't think the parents are thrilled with AS staying, but I'm sure AS has a great story of abuse and mistreatment and that with the cold weather, they bent. Maybe AS will return to college with one of his friends and couch surf and mooch until he gets his life straightened out or loses that option. I'm hoping this is the case; it'll get him out of town, and he's always wanted to live in the college town 4 hours away where most of his HS friends are.

If he doesn't, I'm guessing when Xmas break ends, he'll show up at my door with a 'deal'. I'm no contact, that means no listening.

The other kids and I are settling down. It's odd to keep the front door locked. We usually don't during the day.

I haven't cleaned out his room yet. I'm afraid both of finding sweet endearing tokens of his childhood as well as finding drug paraphernalia. I surveyed the mess and thought, should I wash his clothes before shoving them in plastic bags. Um...no, why should I take better care of his clothes than he does, and it just prolongs a job I don't want to do and shouldn't have to.

I then have to figure out how to get his stuff to him without seeing him. I'll work it out. It's one of the last decisions I will have to make regarding him for a while.

I'm feeling better than I've felt in a long time. And like I said on another thread, I've been in turmoil, but I've actually gone two days without sobbing. I've been crying for six months now. So this is good.

tjp613

I always like the idea of putting his things in storage, paying for 30 days rent on it and mailing him the key. Or, in your case, leaving the key with the storage manager. Clean and simple.

TiredandSpent

In my jurisdiction it's not that simple. If I put it in storage I'm responsible to pay for it. If he doesn't pay the second month and he loses the property, I'm liable. I cannot put it in storage and incur a debt on his behalf. Thus I can't 'give him a bill' without his consent. And that's what putting it in storage in my name is, I have decided for him that from this point on he will have to pay $50 or whatever to keep his stuff, and I cannot incur that liability on his behalf. And since he didn't consent to the liability of $50 a month, if he doesn't pay it and loses his property, it's my fault.

Depending on the circumstances I have a legal responsibility to maintain and return his property in reasonable condition and manner. Since I have a large house in which it can be stored without much inconvenience to me and no compelling need to be rid of it (ie, I'm not being evicted, etc...), I have to take reasonable care of it, and make reasonable accommodations to return his things to him.

To dispose of it, I have to get a court order believe it or not. Or I have to be able to prove it was abandonned (like he showed no interest in it for a year or two). I have to advise him of my plans to dispose of it and make reasonable accommodations for him to retrieve it (for example if he's in Iraq, I can't say I want it out this weekend).

Would he sue me? Probably not, but I just don't want any trouble, and I don't want to be vindictive or increase 'bad karma'. I just want it gone and done with. Chances are he's not able to cope with a tv, playstation, a box or two or books, and 3 large garbage bags of clothes and momentos and a dog. He also has a large scooter that doesn't work that's not titled in his name (still in previous owners) So I've got to figure something out.

I'm leaning towards just giving him the clothes and dropping them off where he works.

I'll keep the dog until he's able to support her, but the rest needs to go. Two of my sons share a room and they want to take it over.

eyeswideshut1

Tired, do you really think your family would stop calling you if you didn't call them? A lot of codependents carry around false ideas such as "No one loves me unless they need something from me," or "no one loves me as much as I love them." This can lead to a lot of frustration and resentment. Some recovering codependents who hold these beliefs find that if they let go of the idea that they have to give more than they're comfortable with in order to be loved, and start giving only as much as they feel comfortable giving, people still love them. So I think it's a great idea for you to take a step back from those relationships where you feel you are giving more than you get, and hope you can do it from a place of self love instead of a place of resentment for others. Another poster recommended this in another thread yesterday, but I thought you might be interested in looking at it. Drama Triangle: The Three Faces of Victim by Lynne Forrest

TiredandSpent

Yep, i've done it.

I stopped calling my brother about 18 months ago; we used to talk every 3 weeks or so, and it was always enjoyable. Haven't heard from him (per telephone since). I have seen him in person 4 times--but i traveled to him.

I stopped calling my sister every other week and it's been 9 months since I heard from her. We used to talk about 40 minutes at a shot.

In the past I did stop calling my mother, and I never heard from her. I missed her and started calling after about 4 months. She wasn't angry or there wasn't any misunderstanding or anything to explain why she didn't call. We aren't a family that quarrels or fusses with one another. Theyare all happy when i call and happy to see me when I come. I don't really know why no one calls. They are all happily married and I'm single. I wonder if that has anything to do with it? I don't know. Only guessing.

This really was the first time anyone has called me to ask how I was.

It meant a lot to me.

Hanna

I guess I just don't understand the point of trying to tell a Mom that their child is behaving this way because of his childhood. It seems just about the opposite of what all the recovery programs stress. It also seems an awful lot like what my brother - the one NOT in recovery - would try to tell you about why he behaves like he does. The thing is, I see what wasn't okay about our childhood, but that doesn't make using illegal substances justifiable.

And understanding the addict really doesn't make them get better anyway, at least not from what I've read. What they need is for us to get out of their way and let them find their bottom - which is exactly what this Mom is now doing.

My brother is now 43. If our parents screwed up, he's doing way worse to his own child. If our parents "Owe" him and he tells me they do, he owes his teen daughter way more and he's not stepping up to the plate. If they are the reason that he is unwilling or unable to pay his own bills, show up regularly to work well... that's not the model we got at home ever. Both busted their tails, paid their bills on time, helped others in the community. neither ever even drank, never mind the illegal substances. Yes, it was incredibly dysfunctional, yet he is healthy, intelligent, pretty damn charming and great looking. They instilled good values in us. We are all kind and caring . What they gave us so far outweighs what wasn't right, but his drug tells him otherwise. Because he needs an excuse to continue.

So the stuff above - especially listing out every item she's written that isn't conducive to a positive childhood, as if a Mom doesn't know what went on in her own child's life - mostly seems like it's being used to try and tell TiredandSpent this is somehow her fault and she should be more understanding. It isn't. ****. We know that for a fact. And frankly I get a little irritated myself each time I come into the thread and see it there. If your ESH could be a help to another, it's not going to be by beating someone about the head with them. Perhaps wording it in a way that doesn't sound like scolding might help. And I get that ya'll have been in these shoes and wish you could do things a little different. I guess I don't understand why because I so strongly believe that everything in this world is as it should be, even the things we do that make us sad later.

Sorry for the rant and I want to stress that I know every person here has a positive and powerful message they are trying to get across to TiredandSpent.

~ Hanna

ps. Tired, I really wish you would consider changing your name to something that means strength, because you are STRONG.

Chino

Understanding helped ME get better

The more I learned, the more I was able to detach with compassion and forgiveness. Understanding helped me to stop taking and making things personal. Understanding helped me see what was mine to own, and what wasn't; good, bad, or ugly. Understanding helped me see that I was no different from my addicted/codependent loved ones.

Understanding helped me see, that I had to work the recovery program I wished my addicted loved ones would.

Tired, I'm happy for you that your Mom called. No matter how you go about detaching and ending the codie cycles, I'm praying that you are blessed with serenity in the New Year.

cc88

Trying to understand the why's of an addiction (Why did he use, why does he need to get high, why cant they stop, why are they stealing from their family etc. etc.) or trying to understand ones individual motives or lack thereof does no good. Understanding addiction in general is the single best way to help yourself. There is a difference

FT

Hi there,

Have you tried Skype? It's free and there is just something about being able to see the people you are talking to. You might find yourself feeling closer to them that way. I know it has really helped me in missing a close family member who moved far away.

Just a thought.

FT

lesliej

..."So the stuff above - especially listing out every item she's written that isn't conducive to a positive childhood, as if a Mom doesn't know what went on in her own child's life - mostly seems like it's being used to try and tell TiredandSpent this is somehow her fault and she should be more understanding. It isn't. ****."

Hanna,
I posted that list. I did not do so to place blame on a mother. I am more than well aware that we don't cause, control or cure addiction. What we can do for each other is sometimes break through denial, or point out blind spots, or help with perception.

T&S had originally posted that his childhood was not in the midst of alcoholism or violence but then went on to write about his childhood. I simply extracted her list...in her writing...

Sometimes we can't see the trees for the forest. It is not to place blame...but perhaps increase awareness, which usually increases understanding of some sort...which usually raises compassion. We all need understanding (not enabling) and compassion (not codependency).

Leslie

FT

I think if T&S didn't think it was important to discuss things about her son's childhood, she would not have mentioned them.

No one here is trying to place blame or make T&S feel bad. Sometimes others' perspectives about what is going on are extremely helpful. Increasing awareness can increase understanding.

Ultimately, I think this mother and son still both have an opportunity for a rich and wonderful relationship, even if it takes some time. Sometimes even years. I have tried to convey my experience with "children" who came into their own in their 30's after trashing their lives in their 20's.

Sometimes hearing about the mistakes we ourselves have made is helpful to others. Sometimes not. Advice pushed on people doesn't help so much. I think there have been some great discussions on this thread and on the one that preceded it. I would hate to see that kind of discourse discouraged out of fear for stepping over the line. Mostly, I think the posters let us know when to back off.

lesliej

also, I do believe that dysfunction rolls on down the line, through ancestry in some cases.

my mom is still in denial about some aspects of family relationships. she has 4 kids, 3 siblings, a father and many extended family members in recovery (and in need of recovery)
she is so blind to her part, amazingly blind. she has attended al anon a few times and I always encourage her to go more. I am an alcoholic (almost six years sober) and I am also an al anon member.

when we are in a dysfunctional relationship/s we need the WE
I agree with Taper...you never know where the message will come from, sometimes from the source that bugs you most! "you spot it you got it" type deal

trying to edit messages to someone else is like trying to control someone elses recovery...

Hanna

Understanding addiction helped me. Understanding the facts of my brother's experiences.... not so much. I understood that from day one. All that did was make me feel sympathy and feel justified in excusing his behavior. That only lead to more enabling.

Hanna

FailedTaper what I would hate to see even more than what you describe is someone in crisis feeling discouraged from sharing here because they feel they are being put on the defensive and must justify their own actions to us here.

If we, as responding posters, give our own posts a little more consideration and try and get our points across in a way that is easier for someone in crisis to absorb, that isn't really such a bad thing, IMO.

FT

I agree, and I am the first to admit that sometimes I come off too strong in some of my posts.

I have never, even once, however, posted something out of spite or to hurt another poster. I have made many of the same mistakes I see occurring over and over again in these threads, and I need to remind myself that sometimes it is in the making of our own mistakes that we grow the most.

lesliej

maybe this is really about gaining clarity...when a person says one thing and then describes another there is a disconnect.
in order to understand what kind of dysfunction you come from you can get help from the perspective of others. if I had two husbands who were alcoholic and violent but seemed to deny that there was alcoholism or violence in my own house...then maybe I am not really clear about my life. if I brought up a son in that house and then said that the son was not brought up in an alcoholic or violent house maybe it would be good to gain clarity on that...it may help the relationship a great deal...especially if either or both parties decide to work a program which involves self awareness, ownership of life circumstances, accountability and amends making steps.

maybe gaining clarity is not about the son
maybe gaining clarity is about understanding her own life
and her own life in relationship to his
maybe his addiction is triggering memories of husbands

maybe clarity does not need to generate justifying sympathy and enabling as it did in your case...

lesliej

it seems you are using sympathy to "defend" the original poster when she seems quite strong and able to do so for herself...in fact she only once has seemed to feel "defensive" and the rest of her posts have seemed to show growth and progress and calming...

you are the one now that seems a little incited and agitated...