Brother "in recovery" - I think he's faking.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Brother "in recovery" - I think he's faking.
I'm new to these forums and had this over on the Newbie forum. It was suggested that I post this here...
My brother (we'll call him "Bubba") is 54 yrs old and lives in a different city. He recently went to a detox facility after a particularly ugly crash and burn. He had no job, no money and no drugs. Whines to our mom that he can't pay his phone. She sends money. Can't pay his utilities. She sends money. His credit cards are maxed. Mom sent him almost $13,000 to pay one off. Did he pay it off? Guess.
Mom say's i'm not being supportive. She and my other brother say he's going to AA meeting "once or twice every day". They get their information only from Bubba. When I suggest that "since he's pathologically lied in the past, don't you think its not wise to automatically believe anything Bubba tells you?" I'm told I need to be more supportive. I'm the ass, you see.
By the way, they wouldn't believe me about Bubba, even with the glassy eyes, the constant sniffles, the wrecked life, the 2 divorces, the kids saying he passes out, -- until I took photographs of the paraphenalia during a recent visit. He just came to town and has the sniffles. He say's he has a little cold. (echo: last time we saw him and I took the pix). His son, who lives with him, thinks he's using. But Mom and other brother choose not to listen to what Bubba's son says.
I say the only real supportive method is to get proof if he's telling the truth. If he's telling the truth, then he's headed down a good road. If he's lieing, (and it sounds exactly like he's telling the truth) then he's headed down a bad road. Why can't they see that the only real support should lead him down the right path? What they're doing is not support. They're fooling themselves. But he's manipulating like crazy. Mom sends money. Why work?
I say he has to man up. Get a job. Take care of himself. Rebuild his self respect and self esteem. He doesn't care about anyone. After 30 years of calling my mom a controling b*tch, now he calls her regularly just to say I love you. He's only been out of detox for 1 month. I guess that means he's been to as many as 60 AA meetings, if you believe that.
What should I do? He's got them all fooled, again. They are such suckers.
My brother (we'll call him "Bubba") is 54 yrs old and lives in a different city. He recently went to a detox facility after a particularly ugly crash and burn. He had no job, no money and no drugs. Whines to our mom that he can't pay his phone. She sends money. Can't pay his utilities. She sends money. His credit cards are maxed. Mom sent him almost $13,000 to pay one off. Did he pay it off? Guess.
Mom say's i'm not being supportive. She and my other brother say he's going to AA meeting "once or twice every day". They get their information only from Bubba. When I suggest that "since he's pathologically lied in the past, don't you think its not wise to automatically believe anything Bubba tells you?" I'm told I need to be more supportive. I'm the ass, you see.
By the way, they wouldn't believe me about Bubba, even with the glassy eyes, the constant sniffles, the wrecked life, the 2 divorces, the kids saying he passes out, -- until I took photographs of the paraphenalia during a recent visit. He just came to town and has the sniffles. He say's he has a little cold. (echo: last time we saw him and I took the pix). His son, who lives with him, thinks he's using. But Mom and other brother choose not to listen to what Bubba's son says.
I say the only real supportive method is to get proof if he's telling the truth. If he's telling the truth, then he's headed down a good road. If he's lieing, (and it sounds exactly like he's telling the truth) then he's headed down a bad road. Why can't they see that the only real support should lead him down the right path? What they're doing is not support. They're fooling themselves. But he's manipulating like crazy. Mom sends money. Why work?
I say he has to man up. Get a job. Take care of himself. Rebuild his self respect and self esteem. He doesn't care about anyone. After 30 years of calling my mom a controling b*tch, now he calls her regularly just to say I love you. He's only been out of detox for 1 month. I guess that means he's been to as many as 60 AA meetings, if you believe that.
What should I do? He's got them all fooled, again. They are such suckers.
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I say the only real supportive method is to get proof if he's telling the truth.
What should I do?
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
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But "let go" means "let die"
I appreciate your responding. But I don't understand.
I appreciate your responding. But I don't understand.
How about you check out some Alanon meetings for yourself. There is where you will find other 'loved ones' of alcoholics and/or addicts who are trying to figure out how to live with or without the A.
One of the first things you will learn is:
You didn't Cause this.
You can't CONTROL this.
and
You can't Cure this.
No 'let go' does not mean 'let die'. Let go, means allowing the A the dignity to CHOOSE their own course. The A has to WANT recovery more than they want to drink. This does not usually occur until the A reaches their individual bottom. This will probably take some time yet because it seems your mom and other brother are still enabling. However, they too have to reach their 'own bottom' where 'enough is enough.'
I can tell you that I was 33 1/2 when my parents and family said NO MORE. If I came to the door it would be shut in my face, if I called them they would hang up, and if I attempted to steal from them they would call the police.
It took me 2 1/2 more years to find my bottom and the last 1 1/2 years of that I lived on the streets of Hollywood. I was 3 weeks shy of my 36th birthday when I found recovery and that was over 30 years ago now.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, you cannot help your brother or your family. What you can do is get yourself healthy, live the way you would like to see your mom and other brother live. Eventually your family will reach the point of 'enough is enough'.
When I was 6 months sober I call my parents and left a message on their answering machine. I simply told them I had been sober for 6 months, gave them numbers of my sponsor, the House Mother of the Sober Living House I had been in, my home number and my work number. It took them another almost 5 months before they called me, and that was okay, I was sober, and I was fast becoming aware of the hell I had put them through for 24 years.
You will know when your brother does find recovery, it won't be in what he says, it will be in his actions. He won't ask for money, he won't 'hint' for money, he will give a synopsis of what his life is like now ie "it's real tough but so much better than when I was drinking." or words similar and the ACTIONS will show the changes he is making.
You can't fix your family, but you can fix you.
Please keep posting, and let us know how you are doing as we do care so very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 227
Please read the stickys at the top of the forum. I felt like you did, that if I didn't "help" my son he would surely die. I've since realized I am not that powerful, that all my help was just enabling him to continue his destructive lifestyle. Your brother is 54 years old and it sounds like the help your family has been providing has not had the effect you'd all hoped it would. One saying I repeat often is "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Noting changes if nothing changes.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
You can't change your brother and you also cannot change how your family members interact with him. The only person you have control over is yourself. /narAnon meetings can be very helpful. Have you thought of attending?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
You can't change your brother and you also cannot change how your family members interact with him. The only person you have control over is yourself. /narAnon meetings can be very helpful. Have you thought of attending?
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
D16 is a great guitar, btw!
I'm so sorry for what brings your here, and one of the very hardest lessons we learn as friends and family members is, as the others have said, we have no control over the addict.
So many of us came here or to Nar-Anon/Al-Anon meetings thinking "just give me the tools so I can fix my loved one!"
The sad, very sad truth is that it just doesn't work that way. We can beg, plead, argue, confront, threaten, apply the silent treatment, and none of it works. Someone who struggles with this disease has to finally decide that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
As much as I would love to lock my stepson in a room to keep him from his drug of choice, I can't. As much as I would like to take him by the shoulders and yell "Can't you see what you are doing to your life?!", I won't because he wouldn't hear me. Mr. HG and I could absolutely drive ourselves crazy and spend all our money trying to help his son, but none of it would work unless and until he is ready to change. We just can't do that to ourselves anymore.
I hope that you will keep reading threads, keep posting, keep asking questions. The answers you are receiving may not be what you want to hear, but it is the collective experience of people who have been down that dark road with their own loved ones. You, your family, and your brother will be in my thoughts and prayers.
HG
I'm so sorry for what brings your here, and one of the very hardest lessons we learn as friends and family members is, as the others have said, we have no control over the addict.
So many of us came here or to Nar-Anon/Al-Anon meetings thinking "just give me the tools so I can fix my loved one!"
The sad, very sad truth is that it just doesn't work that way. We can beg, plead, argue, confront, threaten, apply the silent treatment, and none of it works. Someone who struggles with this disease has to finally decide that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
As much as I would love to lock my stepson in a room to keep him from his drug of choice, I can't. As much as I would like to take him by the shoulders and yell "Can't you see what you are doing to your life?!", I won't because he wouldn't hear me. Mr. HG and I could absolutely drive ourselves crazy and spend all our money trying to help his son, but none of it would work unless and until he is ready to change. We just can't do that to ourselves anymore.
I hope that you will keep reading threads, keep posting, keep asking questions. The answers you are receiving may not be what you want to hear, but it is the collective experience of people who have been down that dark road with their own loved ones. You, your family, and your brother will be in my thoughts and prayers.
HG
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 151
I am new here also, I have a AS. I had been trying to save someone who needed to save theirself. I had been an enabler in the first degree in the name of Love. This forum and the many sticky notes have brought me to a place of peace to be very honest. I love my son as you love your brother, but I can not change him, he must and will change himself. Good luck to all in your family.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 64
FAKING = SPIRITUAL BYPASS ( a new book )
This is going thru the motions of recovery - working the steps ( superficially )
BUT - subconsciously - waiting to USE again !!
The motivation does not come from within the self - but is EXTERNAL
( I want a new job, relationship related, doing for someone else's benefit
Getting reward from someone else - etc etc etc )
This is going thru the motions of recovery - working the steps ( superficially )
BUT - subconsciously - waiting to USE again !!
The motivation does not come from within the self - but is EXTERNAL
( I want a new job, relationship related, doing for someone else's benefit
Getting reward from someone else - etc etc etc )
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
Welcome to SR!
I am both an RA (recovering addict) and a recovering codie who has loved ones who are addicted. I totally get the worry that he may die if no one helps him. Sad truth is, he may die because people keep preventing him from facing consequences of his addiction.
(((Laurie))), who posted above, actually DID die - they were writing her TOD (time of death) on her chart but she lived. I should have been dead, came pretty close a few times. We, as many others here, had families that said "enough" and stepped back. It didn't mean they didn't love us, it meant they loved us enough to let us deal with the choices we'd made, and for me, that's what pushed me to recovery - just too many bad consequences.
Your family is going to feel the way they do. ((Bubba)) is going to do what he wants to do. You, on the other hand have your eyes wide open, and you really don't have to get dragged into all his stuff unless you want to. It's not easy - I've been the "ass" of the family a few times, when I refuse to deal with someone who is messed up. This forum, and the great people here are what got me to that point. I also found that letting people deal with their own stuff, not getting sucked into it, gave me a huge relief in all the stress.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I am both an RA (recovering addict) and a recovering codie who has loved ones who are addicted. I totally get the worry that he may die if no one helps him. Sad truth is, he may die because people keep preventing him from facing consequences of his addiction.
(((Laurie))), who posted above, actually DID die - they were writing her TOD (time of death) on her chart but she lived. I should have been dead, came pretty close a few times. We, as many others here, had families that said "enough" and stepped back. It didn't mean they didn't love us, it meant they loved us enough to let us deal with the choices we'd made, and for me, that's what pushed me to recovery - just too many bad consequences.
Your family is going to feel the way they do. ((Bubba)) is going to do what he wants to do. You, on the other hand have your eyes wide open, and you really don't have to get dragged into all his stuff unless you want to. It's not easy - I've been the "ass" of the family a few times, when I refuse to deal with someone who is messed up. This forum, and the great people here are what got me to that point. I also found that letting people deal with their own stuff, not getting sucked into it, gave me a huge relief in all the stress.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Welcome to SR. I am the mama of an addict, and for years I gave too much, did too much, tried to save him too much and cried, bribed, threatened, begged and pleaded and it never once stopped him. It only enabled his use and almost killed me in the process.
The thing is, they will use if they choose to no matter what we do or don't do, or what we say or don't say. Some addicts find recovery, some find it and relapse many times, some end up in jails, institutions or dead....no matter what we do. If our love could save them, not one of us would be here.
If there is anything good you can do, it is to get to a meeting, Al-anon, Nar-Anon and CoDA are three similar fellowships that, contrary to their names, are about US, and have helped many of us here to find our balance again. Meetings literally saved my life. It would be a wonderful thing if your mother would go too, I know it would help her so much. But if she resists, there isn't much you can do to change her either.
By finding your own recovery, you will find peace where there is chaos, and faith where there is fear. You are worth the effort to try.
Again, welcome to our forum, you are among friends here who have been where you are.
Hugs
The thing is, they will use if they choose to no matter what we do or don't do, or what we say or don't say. Some addicts find recovery, some find it and relapse many times, some end up in jails, institutions or dead....no matter what we do. If our love could save them, not one of us would be here.
If there is anything good you can do, it is to get to a meeting, Al-anon, Nar-Anon and CoDA are three similar fellowships that, contrary to their names, are about US, and have helped many of us here to find our balance again. Meetings literally saved my life. It would be a wonderful thing if your mother would go too, I know it would help her so much. But if she resists, there isn't much you can do to change her either.
By finding your own recovery, you will find peace where there is chaos, and faith where there is fear. You are worth the effort to try.
Again, welcome to our forum, you are among friends here who have been where you are.
Hugs
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 13
Thanks everybody. I'm so appreciative that you've replied to my post. I'm going to have digest this for a bit. I'm sorry you're all dealing with this too. Especially the moms. It breaks my heart.
Hard not to get sucked in. I think its how we humans are wired. I'm glad I found you folks. There's a lot to poke through on this site. Thanks for all your advice.
hydrogirl: I do love my D16. Buying it was my mid-life folly (wife says she got off easy). I play fingerstyle and it has great volume.
Hard not to get sucked in. I think its how we humans are wired. I'm glad I found you folks. There's a lot to poke through on this site. Thanks for all your advice.
hydrogirl: I do love my D16. Buying it was my mid-life folly (wife says she got off easy). I play fingerstyle and it has great volume.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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All of this information is a lot to take in. It was for my husband and I at first.
I bet it does! Always thought the herrigbones were good lookin' instruments. Martins, imho, have the best tone.....and at the prices they ask, I can see why your wife would raise an eyebrow! 
Pull up a chair, get comfortable, read all you can to educate yourself about this disease.
HG
Originally Posted by MartinD16GT 
hydrogirl: I do love my D16. Buying it was my mid-life folly (wife says she got off easy). I play fingerstyle and it has great volume.
Pull up a chair, get comfortable, read all you can to educate yourself about this disease.
HG
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by MartinD16GT
Son is about 24.
I am the mother of a daughter with a huge drug problem. She is in recovery and doing well. She, like all of us, will always be one lousy decision away from a disaster.
Back when, I had to force myself to replace " she should..." with I will/ will not.....", the difference between my attempts to control her and setting a boundary for myself.
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Originally Posted by MartinD16GT
But "let go" means "let die"
I appreciate your responding. But I don't understand.
I appreciate your responding. But I don't understand.
Let go or be dragged.
I have cried enough tears over my son's addiction for 10,000 funerals. I have lost 1/2 of my large intestine from worry (literally). If I didn't let go, I would be the dead one.
The people who love me have had to endure witnessing MY suffering as a result of my son's addiction. Just as you are witnessing what Bubba's addiction has done and is doing to your mother. Can anyone doubt the truth that addiction is a family disease?
So...what can you do? You can go to meetings (as mentioned in Ann's response). You can educate yourself about addiction and codependence. You can change the way you react to your brother AND your mother. Those are a few things you can do if you choose to. But what we SHOULDN'T do is linger in the belief that we can change other people. We can't make them see the light. Our love can't cure them.
Detachment doesn't mean that we are letting them die. It means that we are allowing them to do what they are going to do and we don't take it personally. Acceptance of what "is" is the key. And acceptance is very difficult--particularly for a parent.
There is a saying "In nature there is no punishment, only consequences." That applies to us as well as the addict.
You, your mother and your brother will be in my prayers.
gentle hugs
ke
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 13
I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around "detachment". Is it ignoring? Callously not caring? How do you detach and help? Those are polar opposite concepts usually.
I really don't even want to talk to Bubba, so that might pass for detachment. He's telling them what a good boy he's being. Maybe he is, huh? Personally, I think since he's been lying for so long, he's a confirmed liar. When I know him to tell the truth for so long, I'll consider him a truth speaker. Not today though. He hasn't earned the right to have trust from me. No quick fixes here. Show me. Show me your job. Show me you're reaching out to those whose relationships you've hurled in the trash. Show me you give one tinker's damn about anything or anybody. I think I'm off my own topic.
I suppose I can introduce them all to this site. That should help. So far I'm pretty impressed by you people.
I really don't even want to talk to Bubba, so that might pass for detachment. He's telling them what a good boy he's being. Maybe he is, huh? Personally, I think since he's been lying for so long, he's a confirmed liar. When I know him to tell the truth for so long, I'll consider him a truth speaker. Not today though. He hasn't earned the right to have trust from me. No quick fixes here. Show me. Show me your job. Show me you're reaching out to those whose relationships you've hurled in the trash. Show me you give one tinker's damn about anything or anybody. I think I'm off my own topic.
I suppose I can introduce them all to this site. That should help. So far I'm pretty impressed by you people.
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(((Martin))) - I think you've already got a pretty good grasp at detachment, but the links will help - at least they did me, when I had the same questions. We say it often, here, but you've already figured it out - talk doesn't mean much from an addict, ACTIONS are what really show how they're doing.
FWIW, when I chose recovery, I never said a word about it. My family doesn't really have a clue what recovery IS, they just know that I've changed. I work, I pay bills, I go to school, I go through all kinds of emotions but I do_not_use. I can't undo the pain I caused them, but I do make living amends. I have their complete trust - PIN numbers, passwords to bank accounts (I transfer money for dad when he's on the road), and when everyone was out of town for a couple of weeks, they were grateful that I stayed home and took care of our furbabies and did some major cleaning.
The trust took time, but it was my actions that gained it back. My XABF#3, I always said, "if he's breathing, he's lying". He never did have actions that backed his words, and he died. Before that, though, I'd realized I would never be able to trust him, and ya know what? That's okay. Just because we love someone, are related to them or whatever, doesn't mean they can do what they want and we'll be okay with it. Anyone that wants respect and trust from me has to earn it.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
FWIW, when I chose recovery, I never said a word about it. My family doesn't really have a clue what recovery IS, they just know that I've changed. I work, I pay bills, I go to school, I go through all kinds of emotions but I do_not_use. I can't undo the pain I caused them, but I do make living amends. I have their complete trust - PIN numbers, passwords to bank accounts (I transfer money for dad when he's on the road), and when everyone was out of town for a couple of weeks, they were grateful that I stayed home and took care of our furbabies and did some major cleaning.
The trust took time, but it was my actions that gained it back. My XABF#3, I always said, "if he's breathing, he's lying". He never did have actions that backed his words, and he died. Before that, though, I'd realized I would never be able to trust him, and ya know what? That's okay. Just because we love someone, are related to them or whatever, doesn't mean they can do what they want and we'll be okay with it. Anyone that wants respect and trust from me has to earn it.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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