Daughter being ROR'd on Tuesday

Old 12-25-2011, 05:43 AM
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Daughter being ROR'd on Tuesday

Christmas morning.......coming here to read and gather strength.

My daughter has been in jail since early November except for the few days she was out (I bailed her out) before new charges were filed.

She's in on forged check and credit card charges- stole from her father with whom she was living to support her habit/lifestyle.

We had been estranged for a long time because of her choices, but of course when she went to jail and her father didn't answer her phone calls, she called me and I did. Even bailed her out which of course was also a mistake. While living with me for a week, she pawned my jewelry and was shooting up roxys.

The state hasn't filed charges in her case and she will be released on Tuesday. Last night I told her she could not live here; that I worked too hard for what I have and that I will not live with all my belongings under lock and key. Told her that she broke every single condition of her bond which was her choice and will have to live with the consequences of those choices when she gets out. She told me that she has been using for 8 years and you just don't quit just like that and basically said "what did you expect?".

I told her I would spend $ on a residential rehab in another state and would rather do that than pay it out on bail and recovering my belongings from pawn shops. She agitatedly and angrily told me that she would not leave the only friends she has, that she is not ready to do that, and I couldn't make her. (She is 22). She said she wants to get counseling and psychiatric help but only here.

Not once while she has been in jail for the past 2 months has she ever expressed a desire to change her life or she's sorry for what she did or anything that could possibly be construed as such. I tell her that I see such potential and the possibility for a great life and all she says in return is that she has no job, no car, no money and no future. She has said that all being there has done is make her want to use.

So that's why I'm here today. I know that so many have heard the same thing and I know that I can't do anything to help her if she doesn't want to help herself and that I can't have her come here when she gets out. All her stuff is here because her dad dumped it in my garage when she got arrested and she'll have to come here to get it. But I know she has just been using me and if she lives here nothing at all will change. At least in jail she's been speaking to me and I've gotten a chance to see her face and I know she's not sleeping who knows where and shooting up. She's alive.

She's needed me while she's been in jail. She was using me when she was out. And when she gets out in a couple of days she will stop talking to me because I won't 'help' her and I won't know where she is or how she is unless I hear she's dead or in jail.
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Old 12-25-2011, 06:32 AM
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hi there newimage im so sorry to hear what your going through my son is a roxy user as well ive heard him say several times to me I havent had enough, none of it makes sense, all i have come to know is that what will happen will happen , although he was not stealing from us im sure that he would have overcome that as well and would not have looked back , the longer they use the more the disease takes over ive come to realize yes i agree with you jail is a safe place mine is in rehab , ill pray for you and your daughter
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Old 12-25-2011, 06:53 AM
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A long time ago someone paralleled my son's addiction as being Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
The Jekyll side was pleasant, personal able quiet and trusting. The Hyde side was simply
plain evil. They suggested that I see and not go into denial that each side has a personality and learn to deal with each as you are confronted.
The hard part was accepting the Hyde side since as mothers we inevitably see the good side and cannot accept the evil side.
After awhile it was obvious to me which side I was seeing.
I had to become very vigilant as it was a struggle and it is definitely not a position that made me comfortable to separate the two people in the same body.
I see drugs of any sort this way now with some others that are using.
What once was is no longer.
My heart feels for your sadness to have to make choices that are so unnatural for a parent.
You aren't dealing with your loved one at times, sometimes we are dancing with a presents that scares us and baffles us.
Know that your decisions are wise. It is a protection that we all have to make sooner than later.
Support can come when we see the sparkle that has been lost and then we can become moms and dads again..until then we have to save ourselves.

Try to have a good day, I know it is difficult.

My best to you.

lauren
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:18 AM
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This must be really hard for you - I can tell you are in a lot of pain. And the holidays make it so much harder.

IMHO, it doesn't sound like she is ready for any type of recovery - local, distant or otherwise. I hate to be harsh, but those friends she is talking about are probably the kinds of friends she can easily score off of. If she moved, she would have to find new contacts for her DOC....

I don't believe from what you said that paying for therapy/rehab would be helpful to her. You would probably shell out the money and after a few days she would walk out. Now your out thousands and she fooled you for a little while longer.

Maybe it is time to let the consequences of her lifestyle catch up to her? Don't help or hinder what she wants to do. Don't provide money or resources that would further her addictions but on the other hand if she has a way she wants to handle it, let her and stay out of it. You will begin to approach sanity when you are no longer involved either way.

I don't think you should give her the option of keeping her stuff in your home if she is stealing your belongings. Others in similar situations here on SR have put such things in a rentable storage unit and paid for the first month or two, and then informed their addict of the arrangement with the caveat that after the prepaid rent runs out, what happens to the contents is their business. If they pay the rent on it, fine. If not, it gets auctioned off or donated by the rental company. Either way, it isn't your problem and you have shucked off an excuse for them to be hanging around your house. And please don't let her move into your home - you say you are worried about where she will be sleeping and what she will be using. SHE WILL USE NO MATTER IF SHE IS IN YOUR HOME, A FLOPHOUSE, OR A FIVE STAR HOTEL. It is what addicts do. But if she is elsewhere, you don't have to worry about her dragging over some of the aforementioned "friends" or getting into a legal situation on your property.

I'm sorry you are going through this today.
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:52 PM
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new, i am so sorry you are going this and especially on a holiday when families should be sharing happy times - my prayers will be with you and your daughter that she will accept help because she knows she needs it - please take care of yourself - blessings
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Old 12-25-2011, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Newimage View Post
I told her I would spend $ on a residential rehab in another state and would rather do that than pay it out on bail and recovering my belongings from pawn shops. She agitatedly and angrily told me that she would not leave the only friends she has...
Maybe her "friends" will get her residential rehab here then.

Originally Posted by Newimage View Post
... she is not ready to do that, and I couldn't make her. (She is 22). She said she wants to get counseling and psychiatric help but only here.
Well, there's nothing stopping her from getting counseling and psychiatric help here--you just aren't going to pay for it.

As for the dilemma of her getting out and disappearing, you have my deepest empathy. I'm so sorry, it's so frightening and painful not to know if your child is okay, especially when you know they are self destructing. Many hugs and prayers for your daughter and especially for you.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:49 AM
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I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this around the holidays.

I am also the mother of an addict (son) and have watched his life spiral out of control for 15 years (since he was about 15 years old). It took a very long time for me to let go and find something that resembles detachment.

It sounds like you are taking some very important steps to protect yourself. For me, meetings (Al-Anon and Nar-Anon) and the people I have met there, have been my saving grace.

You and your dear daughter will be in my prayers. We don't know what the future will hold for our adult children. God works in very mysterious ways. I do believe that things happen for a reason and time will reveal those reasons. Patience has never been a virtue of mine but I am learning those lessons....slowly.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:33 PM
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Today is Tuesday and she's not out of jail yet.......looks like it will be Thursday.

We've had a few phone conversations over the last week during which I let her know that living here is not an option because of the choices she made last time. I don't think she really got it until now , probably because I kept telling her that I would never give up on her, which she took to mean that I would always be there to bail her out.

Today she talked about coming here after she gets out and said she was dying to take a hot shower and get her own clothes on and use some decent hair products. I had to make it crystal clear that she would not be living here and she did not take it well. She freaked out and kept saying that she had had this drug problem for 8 years and how could she kick it over night and how could she kick it if she had no place to live, no job to support herself with, and no way to get to any kind of counseling. I had mentioned residential treatment to her, and she told me that no way would she agree to go to some rehab out of state, but that she wanted to get suboxone treatment and psychiatric help here but she thought I said I would always be there for her and I was lying and how can she do any of that if I was going to be a bitch and kick her out of the house?

I told her that as resourceful as she has been in maintaining her drug habit through stealing and robbing and whatever else she has done, I had total faith that she could successfully use those same resources to stop maintaining it if she wanted to badly enough, but that I would not contribute in any way, shape, or form to her continuing to use.

She will be getting back to town while I'm at work. She wanted to come by and get her stuff and take a shower but I told her she could not come here at all unless I was home. She pointed out that her 16 yr old sister would be here, but I told her that no, I would not allow her sister to let her in and have to watch her to make sure she didn't steal anything.

I don't know how to deal with this initial visit! I am not going to let her live here, but if I let her in to bathe and eat she will think that I'm going to give in and don't mean what I say? I do want her to know that I will be here for her if she seeks and enters treatment on her own but not unless she does that. I have to let her get her stuff- I don't have the time or money to move it all to a storage unit. This is so hard, even though I know she has just been using me ((
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:06 PM
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(((NewImage))) - I'm sorry for what you are going through. FWIW, I'm in recovery for crack addiction as well as codependency with loved ones who are/were addicts.

She says she can't stop drugs just like that - physically, yes she can because she did it when she got arrested. I abused and got addicted for over 20 years, but I did quit. No rehab for me, though I know it is the first step in recovery for a lot of people.

I think you're doing great, though I know it doesn't feel that way. My dad bailed me out once, the other times I stayed in jail and then a diversion center for 6 months.

SHE sees "being there for her" as letting her do what she wants and picking up the pieces. All addicts want that. Had my dad done that, I'm pretty sure I'd be dead or in prison instead of coming up on 5 years of recovery.

You were also right that she can use her resourcefulness to get recovery. We addicts are really good at getting what we want - it can be a bad thing, when we're using, but it comes in really handy when we choose recovery.

I had to face a lot of bad consequences before I was done - am still dealing with some of them. I do know, though, that I will forever be grateful to my loved ones who allowed me to face those consequences and find my way back out of the hole I'd dug myself into.

Big hugs and prayers, as I know this isn't easy.

Amy
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:23 PM
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I don't think you would find anyone on this sight that would say you "have to" let her in to "bathe and eat". That is her demand and not her right by any means. After a bath and a meal then she will need a loan?

you can calmly explain to her that you looked up the definition of bitch and tell her it is "an estranged daughter who, while out on bail (paid for by mom), pawns moms jewelry for drugs." You are not a bitch for not wanting her in your home...you are exhibiting signs of SANITY!

she is not.

as you said she is not remorseful. she has her own plan. she knows what is best for her.
she has friends. she pawned your jewelry and shot up drugs. she is in the deep throes of addiction and I am sure that all of us will pray for her. as we will pray for you.

be good to yourself and your dear 16 year old...absolutely do not place the responsibility on her...protect her! protect yourself...ironically it is most likely the best way to make steps in protecting the addict...by protecting the ones around them! then they will have one less amend/guilt/shame item to deal with!
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:43 AM
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(((((NewImage))))

Please keep in mind the real meaning of the word "BITCH". It is an acronym that stands for Being In Total Control of Herself.

One of my old Al-Anon sponsors had a physically, emotionally and verbally abusive husband (now XH) who once called her a bitch. She looked him straight in the eyes and said "You're right - thanks!". That was the last time he ever called her that name.

With regards to her stuff - and I had to do this once when I moved out cause my room mate turned out to be a total lying psycho - call the cops and tell them the situation. Tell them you fear a confrontation and want them around just in case. Have them on site - maybe give your daughter ONE DAY to retreive her stuff from the driveway? Also call the Salvation Army or the VFW donation van? If she misses her time - tough potatoes. Have the charity group cart it all away.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:55 AM
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I REALLY don't think you should let her in "to take a hot shower". Methinks the boundary should be that she doesn't cross your property line. Period. She can get a hot shower wherever it is she plans to buy her drugs, because that is apparently the 2nd item on her agenda, if not the 1st.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Newimage View Post
Today she talked about coming here after she gets out and said she was dying to take a hot shower and get her own clothes on and use some decent hair products.

It was all about the blasted hair products, of all things, for my daughter, too.

I don't know how to deal with this initial visit!
How about seriously considering that there will be no initial visit. Once she is in the door, it's going to be a million times tougher to get her out without physical force. Don't go there.

"No" is a complete sentence. " No because..." opens the door to negotiation and manipulation. Her addiction compels her to protect and sustain it at all costs. You cannot compete with this. Logic does not work.

Ask yourself why her stuff is more important than your stuff and money. Give it to Goodwill or toss it out on garbage collection day. You are not a storage locker. You did not cause this. You cannot control this. You cannot cure this.

Her choices and behaviors created this mess. Give her the gift of dignity to experience the consequences of her choices and behaviors.

Tough love means being tough with ourselves and not capituating to the whims of children.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:23 PM
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First of all, thank you so much for all of your replies. Each one read and re-read and very valuable to me. I can't tell you how much your support helps.

Unfortunately, daughter herself has made things easier She called about an hour ago and said she'd been released from jail. Wanted to know if I might possibly pick her up from jail (about an hour away) if it was a decent hour. I told her that we needed to talk and she said, yeah, I know, you made it crystal clear that I couldn't live there after lying to me and telling me I'd never be homeless and all that crap and oh, yeah, we didn't even talk for years before this because you kicked me out already once and did all kinds of heinous crap to me. So, like **** it.

Then she asked me to 3way with her friend and I suppose I shouldn't have but I did. It was very enlightening. She told him "Mom is psycho" and that that I wouldn't come get her. He said he thought he could but needed gas money and told her that her BF was in the car with him and wanted to talk to her. At first she didn't want to talk to her BF, but he got on the phone with her and within 20 seconds she was asking him how much money he had. When he replied, like 20 bucks for gas and a pack of cigarettes, she jumped all over him because she wanted him to have saved x amount of money for her when she got out and wanted him to bring her drugs. He told her to go F herself because all she cares about is him getting her drugs and not that she hasn't seen him for 2 months. I overheard him tell her that he hasn't done anything in a few days and won't have any more money til Friday and can't she hang on til then and just look forward to seeing him. I got on the phone then and said it was so sad that she has chosen drugs over everything else and that she's on her own and best of luck. The time ran out and then she called back but I didn't answer the phone. So she's getting out tonight.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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(((Newimage))) - though I'm sorry, for you, that she showed her true colors, I'm also glad. Nothing like hearing it straight from the horse's mouth what is REALLY important, and to her, it's still drugs.

I hate it, for you, but I'm also glad in a way. Sometimes it takes hearing the truth, getting angry and hurt to help us stick to our boundaries.

Big hugs and prayers to you!

Amy
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:42 PM
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Wow, that's really sad. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Sounds like she's still looking at herself as a victim instead of realizing that her own decisions put her in the position in which she finds herself.

Glad you stood firm though, on not allowing her to come back to your place. She pretty much told you that she's not anywhere near ready to straighten up, so, at least you know what the deal is.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:13 PM
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Hugs and Prayers. You are doing the right thing.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:51 PM
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Time to change your number?
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:41 PM
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A day after she got out, I got a text from her and her boyfriend asking if they could come by to get some clothing and also make some food.

I now wish I had just put the stuff out in the driveway or put it all in a storage unit, because although I did maintain my boundaries in regards to letting her in the house, there was drama when she came to get things.

It started out OK, but soon degenerated into a full blown scene. She didn't speak a word to me, but started pawing through her things, throwing things into a suitcase, and first saying and then yelling about how I didn't care and that she was ****ing homeless and needed help and I wouldn't help her. Her boyfriend, who told me that he had talked to her on the way over and that they'd planned to be completely civil and thank me for letting them come, understanding why she couldn't live here, started in on me too, about how I needed to take responsibility for her emotional problems and why was it my way or the highway, that maybe she needed a place to live first and get psychological help so she could kick this stuff, blah blah blah.

He started to become verbally abusive and very agitated and I asked, then told him that they would have to leave. She was crouched on the floor sobbing hysterically between screaming at me that I promised her she wouldn't be homeless and that I didn't care and that I was just a bitch and that she needed help and I wouldn't help her get it.

I shouldn't have engaged in it at all, but couldn't go back in the house while they were there because I figured my car would be damaged or other things taken. I asked her if she had spent the day calling the counseling center or trying to find help, and her BF jumped all over me about she hasn't even been out of jail for a whole day, man and she needed sleep and a day to get herself together. I pointed out that the first thing she wanted to do was use, not get help. I pointed out that there are consequences for the things she's done, and not being able to live here is one of them.

Anyway, it's a big mess and I haven't heard from here since. That was a few days ago.

How can you provide unconditional love and support when you don't know where they are or how to get in touch with them? Should I just walk away from this altogether until she contacts me again or should I sent messages that I care about what happens to her?

No matter what I say, it gets spun around and pointed back at me, and it just makes everything worse :'(
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:53 PM
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Making it look as if everything is your fault is a distraction technique they use to get the focus off of them. As you said, it is "spin".

Maybe you could look at it this way - the best way you can give your daughter unconditional love and support is to make yourself stronger so you can deal with what the future may bring. It sounds like from what you are saying that staying in contact with her is not the best way to do that.

JMHO....
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